![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 4 to 28 of 57. Go back in thread:
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2011, at 5:48:20
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by Lepus on May 22, 2011, at 3:01:25
> I should mention I am on 1mg of Klonopin 3 times daily.
>
> I'm 36. I have a genius IQ and yet my life has been defined an destroyed by anxiety. I don't know what to do anymore or where to go for help. I don't know how to swallow these drugs anymore that only seem to make it all worse. I don't have blind faith in the doctors anymore. I am so afraid to start any medication.
>
> Lepus,
You wrote,[...no one can figure out...terrible anxiety..20 years...depression...becoming more and more unhinged...(psychiatric drugs) set off anxiety...mood is horrible...been on every drug...please help...I think I'm going to die this way...on Klonopin...have genius IQ...life..destroyed by anxiety...where to go for help...these drugs..make it all worse...].
I have no trouble {figuring out} what's goin' on in what you have described here. You see, the drugs that psychiatrists/doctors have given you can be legally prescribed even though some of those drugs could be addicting and cause one that is taking them to have the urge to kill themselves and/or others to be increased. A lot of the psychotropic drugs can cause sudden death and life-ruining conditions such as tardive dyskinesia and neuroleptic malignant syndrome and diabetes and heart conditions and blood conditions, and a list of other life-ruining conditions as well as addiction to them.
You see, it has been revealed to me that the some of the drugs in question come from chemicals that have mind-altering effects. These chemicals have been used for millinia to alter the mind, kill, or addict. Chemists today synthesize the chemicals that the ancients used from plants and coal-tar and such. These chemicals are the building blocks of some of the psychiatric drugs today. I have been trying to show some of this so that there could be education that IMHHO could give people more information so that they could make a more informed decision as to take these drugs or not. This could then IMHHHO save lives and prevent one from getting a life-ruining condition from these drugs.
Last year it is estimated that 42,000 people died from psychotropic drugs prescribed by psychiatrists/doctors. The number of people that got life-ruining conditions is a lot more.
Yet today, people like yourself ask {where to go for help}. I am prohibited here by the administration from posting a lot of {historical fact} and the foundation of Judaism as it has been revealed to me, that I believe, in regards to a commandment from the God that I give service and worship to that I {redacted by respondent}. I am also prohibited from posting here where you can find this information.
You see, all this that I am prohibited from posting here could IMHHO make you free from addiction and depression. You see, the chemicals in some of these drugs have been used to kill insects and parsites in animals. But there is much more to this that I am prohibited from posting here that show how men used these drugs in a particular time frame that goes on today.
Here is a link to a video that if you could watch it could open up a discussion that might lead to help you.
Lou
To see this video:
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, psychiatry: An Introduction]
You will see a pic of a woman and the time is 5 min posted on Nov 24 2006
Posted by SLS on May 22, 2011, at 6:30:19
In reply to Lou's response- » Lepus, posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2011, at 5:48:20
> You see, it has been revealed to me that the some of the drugs in question come from chemicals that have mind-altering effects.
Isn't that the goal?
- Scott
Posted by jms600 on May 22, 2011, at 8:01:45
In reply to Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by Lepus on May 22, 2011, at 2:56:03
> I seem to have a mental health issue no one can figure out. I have terrible anxiety and have for 20 years. I also have what seems to be atypical depression. I sleep a lot and eat a lot. I have now been agoraphobic for over a year and am becoming more and more unhinged. More things set off anxiety, such as taking medications, and my mood is horrible.
>
> My pdoc has prescribed EMSAM at 6mg. From everything I have read it makes anxiety worse. I can't handle more anxiety. I have told the doctors this concern. I have been on every drug. I have tried every class of drug except the MAOIs. With my health fears I think she is afraid to start me off on Nardil.
>
> I want to be hospitalized but there are no beds available for simply stabilizing patients. You have to be suicidal or homicidal.
>
> Please help. I think I'm going to die this way.
I would agree with SLS - I think Nardil is the way forward. I have read countless reports both on here and on the web as how effective Nardil is for anxiety and neurotic depression. I want to it try myself but my doctor is not so keen. I think I'll need to do some persuading.The main side effects as far as I can out out are insomnia, sexual dysfunction and some weight gain, but apparently they are outweighed by Nardil's beneficial effects.
Interestingly, I had a good response to memantine a few years back on an unrelated drugs trial. Like you I suffer from severe GAD, panic disorder and depression. It seem to give me a calming effect. it might be worth trying brfore the Nardil if you can persuade your doctor to prescribe it.
If that doesn't work I'd head straight for Nardil. It could be the answer your looking for.
Good luck!
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2011, at 8:04:32
In reply to Lou's response- » Lepus, posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2011, at 5:48:20
> > I should mention I am on 1mg of Klonopin 3 times daily.
> >
> > I'm 36. I have a genius IQ and yet my life has been defined an destroyed by anxiety. I don't know what to do anymore or where to go for help. I don't know how to swallow these drugs anymore that only seem to make it all worse. I don't have blind faith in the doctors anymore. I am so afraid to start any medication.
> >
> > Lepus,
> You wrote,[...no one can figure out...terrible anxiety..20 years...depression...becoming more and more unhinged...(psychiatric drugs) set off anxiety...mood is horrible...been on every drug...please help...I think I'm going to die this way...on Klonopin...have genius IQ...life..destroyed by anxiety...where to go for help...these drugs..make it all worse...].
> I have no trouble {figuring out} what's goin' on in what you have described here. You see, the drugs that psychiatrists/doctors have given you can be legally prescribed even though some of those drugs could be addicting and cause one that is taking them to have the urge to kill themselves and/or others to be increased. A lot of the psychotropic drugs can cause sudden death and life-ruining conditions such as tardive dyskinesia and neuroleptic malignant syndrome and diabetes and heart conditions and blood conditions, and a list of other life-ruining conditions as well as addiction to them.
> You see, it has been revealed to me that the some of the drugs in question come from chemicals that have mind-altering effects. These chemicals have been used for millinia to alter the mind, kill, or addict. Chemists today synthesize the chemicals that the ancients used from plants and coal-tar and such. These chemicals are the building blocks of some of the psychiatric drugs today. I have been trying to show some of this so that there could be education that IMHHO could give people more information so that they could make a more informed decision as to take these drugs or not. This could then IMHHHO save lives and prevent one from getting a life-ruining condition from these drugs.
> Last year it is estimated that 42,000 people died from psychotropic drugs prescribed by psychiatrists/doctors. The number of people that got life-ruining conditions is a lot more.
> Yet today, people like yourself ask {where to go for help}. I am prohibited here by the administration from posting a lot of {historical fact} and the foundation of Judaism as it has been revealed to me, that I believe, in regards to a commandment from the God that I give service and worship to that I {redacted by respondent}. I am also prohibited from posting here where you can find this information.
> You see, all this that I am prohibited from posting here could IMHHO make you free from addiction and depression. You see, the chemicals in some of these drugs have been used to kill insects and parsites in animals. But there is much more to this that I am prohibited from posting here that show how men used these drugs in a particular time frame that goes on today.
> Here is a link to a video that if you could watch it could open up a discussion that might lead to help you.
> Lou
> To see this video:
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in:
> [youtube, psychiatry: An Introduction]
> You will see a pic of a woman and the time is 5 min posted on Nov 24 2006
>
> Lepus,
Here is a video that is concerning how one's mind could be alterd when they take antidepressants. If you could view it, then I think that the information could help you in understnding how one's mind could be altered by these chemicals and then IMHHHO be better able to plan ahead from here in your condition.
You see, historically, the chemicals in a lot of psychotropic drugs were used to alter the mind of the one taking the drug to kill others. The historical record shows the tactics of how some communities indoctrinated the members to hate particular people. Hate crimes can be planted in the minds of people in a community as to that the communty could be indoctrinated (falsely) into thinking that by killing one of the targeted people that they are doing what will be good for the community as a whole.
I am prohibited from posting here by the administration how this has been done in regards to the tactics used in a community in relation to historical antisemitic violence. I am also prohibited by the administration here of posting the links to the posts here that are directives to me concerning these prohibitions. You could go through the admin board and see all the outstanding requests from me to Mr. Hsiung. But if you knew what I am prohibited from posting here, I think that it could go a long way in helping you recover and understanding the mechanism of how these drugs can alter the mind to induce a mind-altered state to have the person taking the drug to want to kill themselves and/or others.
Lou
To see this video,
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in;
[youtube, can antidepressants cause violence?]
You will see a pic of a woman posted on May 8 2007 and is 5 min.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2011, at 11:06:52
In reply to Lou's response-altrdmhynd, posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2011, at 8:04:32
Lou I keep forgetting to ask you to look up reclast zolderonic acid used for osteoporosis it's what I feel is or could be a real dangerouse med. Will be curious to see what you uncover. Forteo also. Thanks. Phillipa. I feel it kind of puts medications in perspective for me? How do you feel about this? Others sorry to get off topic.Apologies in advance.
Posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 12:22:53
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety » Lepus, posted by SLS on May 22, 2011, at 5:19:46
So you think there could be some alleviation of anxiety rather than making it worse?
My psychiatrist isn't going to give me Nardil until I try this. If I insist on Nardil I will likely be labeled as a difficult patient. I think I already am.
You can cut the EMSAM patches, correct? Maybe I'll try 3mgs initially.
Thank you for your reply.
Posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 12:27:42
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety » Lepus, posted by jms600 on May 22, 2011, at 8:01:45
My psychiatrist isn't overly imaginative so memantine would be impossible to get.
I agree Nardil could be the answer. I think she is afraid of a reaction with the drug though and wants to start EMSAM because it doesn't require the dietary restrictions at low doses.
I just want relief.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 13:14:26
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 12:27:42
Hi Lepus,
You mentioned health concerns in your first post. Do you have health issues, and if so, may I ask what?
I started emsam about two weeks ago--maybe ten days.
Yes, the patches can be cut. Not
according to the manufacturer, but my doctor called the drug rep, read between the lines and gave me his blessings. It's like Scotch tape. Have you seen one?So, I'm a hyper-vigilant med-phobe. I'm also desperate. I cut my patch in half. Someone here cut theirs into quarters. I am now at a full 6mg.
Now, in my experience, emsam reduced anxiety overall. However....I have also just ripped the patch off in a panic (at
night) and downed extra xanax. The emsam, my only maoi experience, is different than any ssri/snri. When it 'bumps' up, like the second day on 1/2 a patch, I felt so darn weird. Just very stimulated in an odd, odd way that alarmed me.Another day I accidentally left on the old patch after applying the new. The last time I went swimming in a heated pool. Each excessive reaction took about 24hrs to show up. Each time I removed the patch and took extra xanax. I recovered fairly quickly when the benzo kicked in.
So the anxiety answer for me is yes and no. I can understand why a doc might
want you to take an emsam test because of the silly errors I've made in dose maintenance for example. I understand
that an maoi is an ad that can actually kill or harm someone.You could try the low dose--cut it however, try and ride out the start up. Would your doctor short script you for a faster acting benzo in case of a panic?
You know that emsam is reported to be very stimulating. I have wanted to try it for a few years because I have severe fatigue issues. I don't know how it will be for you. I *like* it ten days in, but start up is bumpy, imo.
SLS has given some sound advice, imo. Nardil is the gold standard for anxiety and agoraphobia, social anxiety. Therapy with a good therapist is an amazing adjunct if you aren't already.
You can post here as you go. Someone is almost always around. I post *alot* right now.
Anymore emsam questions just ask me or the board. You can babblemail mail me, too. I am subscribed to this one, but don't always check the board for new ones.
I am sorry to hear you are suffering so much right now. And glad to hear that you have yet to try the maoi class. They seem full of potential. I had run the gamut of AD's w/ no real luck, and because of my health, untoward side effects galore.
Emsam could work. It's pretty safe. You can take it off. If it doesn't help, maybe your doc will agree to Nardil very soon.
Will you keep in touch with the board?
Very very best wishes. My fingers and toes are crossed for you. Ask any question that comes up.
And insomnia. If you already have it, you might anticipate a change in quality. Then again, you might be fine. I always like to know more going into something than less. Helps me keep my anxiety response reasonable.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 13:23:15
In reply to Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by Lepus on May 22, 2011, at 2:56:03
To be more precise about anxiety and emsam, I don't seem to need any xanax during the day--that is with the emsam. That's very new for me.
I need to take it at night because insomnia has become a real bear.
Hope this helps.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 13:33:28
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety » Lepus, posted by jms600 on May 22, 2011, at 8:01:45
In my experience, asking for maoi treatment seems to alarm my doctors more than asking for narcotics or benzos.
I hope maoi's will become more accessible as (unfortunately) the relatively small numbers of non-responders to more selective agents increase.
Good luck jms600.
Posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 22:50:06
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety » jms600, posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 13:33:28
I would love to talk to you, FB. Give me a bit. I was in a tornado tonight. Does WONDERS for the nerves, let me tell you. Sounded like a bomb went off over the house. My house isn't damaged but there is a tree through my neighbor's house and the other neighbor also has damage. While my house isn't damaged, the yard is another matter entirely. So many beautiful old trees destroyed. Very lucky though. Very, very lucky.
Posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 22:55:27
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 22:50:06
Oh dear. I love old trees. That is tough news. More later.
Hang in there,
fb
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2011, at 23:14:44
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 22:50:06
Oh no the ones on the news devastating you must be in a state of shock!!! So sorry. But sincerly glad you are not hurt. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 23, 2011, at 19:58:27
In reply to Re: Lou's response-altrdmhynd » Lou Pilder, posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2011, at 11:06:52
and breaks in the leg bone. Thanks. Phillipa. I feel it kind of puts medications in perspective for me? How do you feel about this? Others sorry to get off topic.Apologies in advance.
Hi Phillipa,
I do know a little about those drugs from their being in the news, both the claims for treating osteoporosis and some adverse effects concerning bone death and bone breakage of the leg and effects to the esophogus.
My feelings are that if more time runs, there could be either more acceptance to the drug or it might prove dangerous.
So what you have brought up here is in the topic that is a concern about all drugs that I have, as to if enough testing is done or not before it is approved.
Lou
Posted by Phillipa on May 23, 2011, at 22:05:05
In reply to Lou's reply-psallypheeldz » Phillipa, posted by Lou Pilder on May 23, 2011, at 19:58:27
Personally I find medications/drugs of all categories and for a lot of illnesses quite alarming. I like a site Team Inspire for bone med drugs. I'm sure there is also other sites for other categories of meds. It isn't going to get better with the osteo meds the lawsuits are in process. Phillipa
Posted by lepus on May 24, 2011, at 13:02:00
In reply to Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety » lepus, posted by floatingbridge on May 22, 2011, at 13:14:26
> Hi Lepus,
>
> You mentioned health concerns in your first post. Do you have health issues, and if so, may I ask what?
>
> I started emsam about two weeks ago--maybe ten days.
>
> Yes, the patches can be cut. Not
> according to the manufacturer, but my doctor called the drug rep, read between the lines and gave me his blessings. It's like Scotch tape. Have you seen one?
>
> So, I'm a hyper-vigilant med-phobe. I'm also desperate. I cut my patch in half. Someone here cut theirs into quarters. I am now at a full 6mg.
>
> Now, in my experience, emsam reduced anxiety overall. However....I have also just ripped the patch off in a panic (at
> night) and downed extra xanax. The emsam, my only maoi experience, is different than any ssri/snri. When it 'bumps' up, like the second day on 1/2 a patch, I felt so darn weird. Just very stimulated in an odd, odd way that alarmed me.
>
> Another day I accidentally left on the old patch after applying the new. The last time I went swimming in a heated pool. Each excessive reaction took about 24hrs to show up. Each time I removed the patch and took extra xanax. I recovered fairly quickly when the benzo kicked in.
>
> So the anxiety answer for me is yes and no. I can understand why a doc might
> want you to take an emsam test because of the silly errors I've made in dose maintenance for example. I understand
> that an maoi is an ad that can actually kill or harm someone.
>
> You could try the low dose--cut it however, try and ride out the start up. Would your doctor short script you for a faster acting benzo in case of a panic?
>
> You know that emsam is reported to be very stimulating. I have wanted to try it for a few years because I have severe fatigue issues. I don't know how it will be for you. I *like* it ten days in, but start up is bumpy, imo.
>
> SLS has given some sound advice, imo. Nardil is the gold standard for anxiety and agoraphobia, social anxiety. Therapy with a good therapist is an amazing adjunct if you aren't already.
>
> You can post here as you go. Someone is almost always around. I post *alot* right now.
>
> Anymore emsam questions just ask me or the board. You can babblemail mail me, too. I am subscribed to this one, but don't always check the board for new ones.
>
> I am sorry to hear you are suffering so much right now. And glad to hear that you have yet to try the maoi class. They seem full of potential. I had run the gamut of AD's w/ no real luck, and because of my health, untoward side effects galore.
>
> Emsam could work. It's pretty safe. You can take it off. If it doesn't help, maybe your doc will agree to Nardil very soon.
>
> Will you keep in touch with the board?
>
> Very very best wishes. My fingers and toes are crossed for you. Ask any question that comes up.
>
> And insomnia. If you already have it, you might anticipate a change in quality. Then again, you might be fine. I always like to know more going into something than less. Helps me keep my anxiety response reasonable.
>
> fb
>
>Can you tell me more about what is causing you such massive panic attacks? Is it fear of starting the new med, the change in how you feel, the actual med itself or the errors in dosing?
How are you feeling about the medication now?
Any tips on how to cut the patch?
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2011, at 21:00:48
In reply to Lou's response-altrdmhynd, posted by Lou Pilder on May 22, 2011, at 8:04:32
> > > I should mention I am on 1mg of Klonopin 3 times daily.
> > >
> > > I'm 36. I have a genius IQ and yet my life has been defined an destroyed by anxiety. I don't know what to do anymore or where to go for help. I don't know how to swallow these drugs anymore that only seem to make it all worse. I don't have blind faith in the doctors anymore. I am so afraid to start any medication.
> > >
> > > Lepus,
> > You wrote,[...no one can figure out...terrible anxiety..20 years...depression...becoming more and more unhinged...(psychiatric drugs) set off anxiety...mood is horrible...been on every drug...please help...I think I'm going to die this way...on Klonopin...have genius IQ...life..destroyed by anxiety...where to go for help...these drugs..make it all worse...].
> > I have no trouble {figuring out} what's goin' on in what you have described here. You see, the drugs that psychiatrists/doctors have given you can be legally prescribed even though some of those drugs could be addicting and cause one that is taking them to have the urge to kill themselves and/or others to be increased. A lot of the psychotropic drugs can cause sudden death and life-ruining conditions such as tardive dyskinesia and neuroleptic malignant syndrome and diabetes and heart conditions and blood conditions, and a list of other life-ruining conditions as well as addiction to them.
> > You see, it has been revealed to me that the some of the drugs in question come from chemicals that have mind-altering effects. These chemicals have been used for millinia to alter the mind, kill, or addict. Chemists today synthesize the chemicals that the ancients used from plants and coal-tar and such. These chemicals are the building blocks of some of the psychiatric drugs today. I have been trying to show some of this so that there could be education that IMHHO could give people more information so that they could make a more informed decision as to take these drugs or not. This could then IMHHHO save lives and prevent one from getting a life-ruining condition from these drugs.
> > Last year it is estimated that 42,000 people died from psychotropic drugs prescribed by psychiatrists/doctors. The number of people that got life-ruining conditions is a lot more.
> > Yet today, people like yourself ask {where to go for help}. I am prohibited here by the administration from posting a lot of {historical fact} and the foundation of Judaism as it has been revealed to me, that I believe, in regards to a commandment from the God that I give service and worship to that I {redacted by respondent}. I am also prohibited from posting here where you can find this information.
> > You see, all this that I am prohibited from posting here could IMHHO make you free from addiction and depression. You see, the chemicals in some of these drugs have been used to kill insects and parsites in animals. But there is much more to this that I am prohibited from posting here that show how men used these drugs in a particular time frame that goes on today.
> > Here is a link to a video that if you could watch it could open up a discussion that might lead to help you.
> > Lou
> > To see this video:
> > A. Pull up Google
> > B. Type in:
> > [youtube, psychiatry: An Introduction]
> > You will see a pic of a woman and the time is 5 min posted on Nov 24 2006
> >
> > Lepus,
> Here is a video that is concerning how one's mind could be alterd when they take antidepressants. If you could view it, then I think that the information could help you in understnding how one's mind could be altered by these chemicals and then IMHHHO be better able to plan ahead from here in your condition.
> You see, historically, the chemicals in a lot of psychotropic drugs were used to alter the mind of the one taking the drug to kill others. The historical record shows the tactics of how some communities indoctrinated the members to hate particular people. Hate crimes can be planted in the minds of people in a community as to that the communty could be indoctrinated (falsely) into thinking that by killing one of the targeted people that they are doing what will be good for the community as a whole.
> I am prohibited from posting here by the administration how this has been done in regards to the tactics used in a community in relation to historical antisemitic violence. I am also prohibited by the administration here of posting the links to the posts here that are directives to me concerning these prohibitions. You could go through the admin board and see all the outstanding requests from me to Mr. Hsiung. But if you knew what I am prohibited from posting here, I think that it could go a long way in helping you recover and understanding the mechanism of how these drugs can alter the mind to induce a mind-altered state to have the person taking the drug to want to kill themselves and/or others.
> Lou
> To see this video,
> A. Pull up Google
> B. Type in;
> [youtube, can antidepressants cause violence?]
> You will see a pic of a woman posted on May 8 2007 and is 5 min.
>
> Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
Lou
To view this video:
A. Pull uup Google
B. Type in:
[youtube, Comfortably numb-part 1 by Gloria Berman]
You will see a pic of a dark screen with writing on it. The time is 9 min posted on April 20 2008
Posted by Phillipa on May 24, 2011, at 21:13:43
In reply to Lou's request-dhagreytdheepsp, posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2011, at 21:00:48
Is this a new rule I don't know about that utubes are required to participate in a link? Phillipa
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 6:30:46
In reply to Lou's request-dhagreytdheepsp, posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2011, at 21:00:48
> If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
I am considering being a duscussant in this thread, however, I will deny your request. It is not appreciated by me that you enter a thread and "hijack" it, always with the same over-generalized statements. You never present scientific studies to make your case that all psychotropics are dangerous. While I agree that many drugs have the capacity to alter one's mental state in a negative fashion, drugs like Prozac far more often heal rather than harm. The statistics from double-blind trials demonstrate this in recording a very low incidence of suicidal feelings and even fewer attempts.
If you are still considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you enter the following link in your browser and address the concerns to be found in the first post along this thread.
http://www.drugs.com/pro/emsam.html
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 6:42:15
In reply to Re: Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by lepus on May 22, 2011, at 12:27:42
> My psychiatrist isn't overly imaginative so memantine would be impossible to get.
>
> I agree Nardil could be the answer. I think she is afraid of a reaction with the drug though and wants to start EMSAM because it doesn't require the dietary restrictions at low doses.
>
> I just want relief.My doctor has seen other patients beginning Emsam treatment that I saw in my own trial of this drug. It can have an anxiolytic effect, especially social anxiety. This occurs at low dosages (6 mg/24 hours). If your condition is one of comorbid SAD with MDD, you will probably need to use those dosages that effectively inhibit MAO-A. There's no free lunch with Emsam. To exert a robust antidepressant effect, which seems to happen infrequently, higher dosages of Emsam are usually necessary, requiring adherence to low- tyramine diet.
If it is your doctor's requirement that you choose to follow his directions with Emsam before moving on to Nardil, I would give it a shot. The worst thing to happen is that you react negatively to it, and just stop taking it. If it works, at least you won't gain too much weight.
Please continue posting of your progress.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 7:20:08
In reply to Lou's request-dhagreytdheepsp, posted by Lou Pilder on May 24, 2011, at 21:00:48
Lou.
Now, you can move on to this NIMH publication:
You will see that, despite the global warning of antidepressant-induced suicidality necessary to appear on every antidepressant package label, the actual rate of this altered state is low, even in children.
"In the FDA review, no completed suicides occurred among nearly 2,200 children treated with SSRI medications. However, about 4 percent of those taking SSRI medications experienced suicidal thinking or behavior, including actual suicide attemptstwice the rate of those taking placebo, or sugar pills."
It is my position that it is appropriate to place a global black box warning of the potential of suicidality and other negative effects on mood and anxiety. It is good operating procedure that both doctor and patient acknowledge the possible untoward effects that these drugs are capable of, including suicidal thinking.
So, Lou, what is the statistical risk of Emsam to cause one to think of suicide?
What about me? I am currently taking five different psychotropic drugs. Each one is capable of producing unwanted cognitive effects. I have been responding to these drugs with a degree of stable improvement that I have not known since 1987. Now, what would have happened to me should an alarmest convinced me to discontinue treatment due to concerns about suicidality?
If you are wanting to be a discussant in this thread, I request that you address your concerns about Emsam specifically, as this the subject of discussion. How does your discussing the phenomenology of osteoarthritis and other bone conditions serve to aid the person who urgently asked for help regarding his taking of Emsam.
I would just suggest to you that you extend to people participating in a thread the courtesy of staying on-topic. It would also be desirable that the subject line not be altered in a fashion that obfuscates the theme and issues being discussed in the thread. Hijacking a thread and changing the subject line is disrespectful to the forum, especially to the initiator of the thread.
To maintain a courtesy appropriate to an Internet forum such as this one, I request that you review the full articles containing the following quotes.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netiquette
"The points most strongly emphasized about USENET netiquette often include using simple electronic signatures, and avoiding multiposting, cross-posting, off-topic posting, hijacking a discussion thread, and other techniques used to minimize the effort required to read a post or a thread."
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http://forums.atozteacherstuff.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq"FORUM ETIQUETTE: Thread Hijacking 101
It is polite to keep a thread on topic. If an idea is sparked by an existing thread, please go start a new one rather than hijacking the current topic. The original poster can end up confused or disrespected by the direction a thread takes."
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- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on May 25, 2011, at 12:33:08
In reply to Re: Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by lepus on May 24, 2011, at 13:02:00
Hi Lepus,
I wrote two responses and lost them :( My apologies for the delay. I hope the post-storm situation is o.k. for you
> Can you tell me more about what is causing you such massive panic attacks?I just get wound up. I had them before emsam.
>Is it fear of starting the new med, the change in how you feel...
Yes. Med trials provoke anxiety for me. The start up, someone referred to as a possible therapeutic response happened for me about 24-48 hours after the first half patch. It felt very different than a snri start up. I panicked, took lots of xanax, wrote a flurry of emails. Finally went to sleep :-/
>the actual med itself or the errors in dosing?Not the med, in my belief, but the errors I mentioned. I didn't understand that I had made an error, and the 'response' was delayed in my case about 24hrs. I had difficulty tracing the error to the response. My default is usually panic :-/
> How are you feeling about the medication now?Good. I think it's helping me. Insomnia is a bear, but seems to respond to 5mg of Valium nightly.
> Any tips on how to cut the patch?
Sharp scissors. It is like Scotch tape. Cut the patch perpendicular to the split in the non-adhesive backing. Then you'll be able to peel it easily w/o touching the sticky med part with your fingers.
Med didn't show up in me for about 24hrs or so. I did 1/2 patch for about 5 days (I think) before going on to the full 6mg.
I still don't understand why the effect of the med changes as dosage increases, like going from a b inhibitor to an a, or something like that.
Right now 6mg is good. If you start, esp with partial patches, it seems safe enough. Any anxiety you might feel--everyone is very different--should abate esp with an anti-anxiety med. And be in touch with your doc.
Will you let us know how it goes?
Super best to you,
fb
Posted by Lou Pilder on May 25, 2011, at 16:11:36
In reply to Scott's request of Lou - Emsam and Net etiquette » Lou Pilder, posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 7:20:08
Scott,
One of your questions to me concerning Emsam and suicide is about what is the statistical risk to those taking the drug to think of suicide.
In order to answer that, I need to have the reader understand that ;
A. A lot of the knowledge that I have concerning this involves organic chemistry that since I am prohibited from posting more than 3 consecutive posts, I do not think that I could explain such here with that rule.
Now I think that if I was allowed to post here more than 3 consecutive posts, that lives could be saved and the chances of people getting a life-ruining condition could be headed off.
B. I am prohibited from posting what could be part of an era of time that is related to psychiatry and nerve agents. Without my knowledge concerning that being posted here, I am restrained from including what I think could explain your question annd could also save lives
C. I am prohibited from posting what I believe that has been revealed to me (the foundation of Judaism) that I need to use in my answer your question. ( there are many processes in suicide thinking that I know)
D. Since there are quite a lot of outstanding requests from me to the admin here, I am not able to post in relation to content related to the outstanding requests since I am unsure as to what Mr. Hsiung is wanting to mean by what he has written here until there are answers to my requests.
E. I think that there is an indoctrination here unless my concerns are accommodated by Mr. Hsiung in relation to the requests from me that are outstanding which (redacted by respondent) which prohibits me from posting some things that I need to answer your question.
So let it be with the above. I come to save lives here, not to ruin them.
Now the chemical in Emsam is [selegiline]. The ancient sorcerers used plants and coal-tar and such to make drugs to alter the mind of the taker so that they could be controlled or killed or addicted. One of the drugs came from a plant in Asia that has amphetamine and has been synthesized now. Then there is (meth)amphetamine which come from what is known as the (phenethylamines) which also bupropion and the MDxx drugs and selegiline. So the chemical structure goes way back and the mind-altering effects are very well known.
But when you get into how these drugs can alter the mind to that the taker is compelled to kill themselves and/or others, involves cell biology that I have a base in as an undergraduate and have kept up to date on my own since there have been great advances in understanding. One of the aspects involves the mitochondria. When a chemical enters a mitochondria, it can short-out the chemical process that allows it to be life, and then death happens. I can not post here the historical development of the people that studied how to cause death and the use of nerve agents to kill.
Now the question going on about those that take this drug... (continued)
Lou
Posted by SLS on May 25, 2011, at 18:43:52
In reply to Lou's reply-chmofdeth » SLS, posted by Lou Pilder on May 25, 2011, at 16:11:36
Perhaps you could initiate a new thread expressing your concerns regarding the safety of psychotopic drugs. Your concerns are off-topic here, and I am distressed that you continue to hijack threads by changing the subject line.
Do you think Emsam can ameliorate social anxiety?
- Scott
Posted by hyperfocus on May 25, 2011, at 23:38:00
In reply to Help, please. Does EMSAM ever work for anxiety, posted by Lepus on May 22, 2011, at 2:56:03
Hey could you describe your condition some more? What type of anxiety specifically did you have when it became noticeable - was it like social anxiety or one of the phobias or generalized? Have you had an official diagnosis? It's possible that you have some serious condition besides just the anxiety.
Anxiety stuff tends to get worse, unfortunately, if left untreated for a long time. Whatever your original condition was,its possibly morphed into something else that also needs proper treatment. Depression and dissociation can result from long-term anxiety conditions, plus a whole host of psychological maladies like BDD that you might need to spend time with a therapist repairing. But in my totally layman's assessment MAOIs are a good start for what you might have. You might find as your depression level goes down, the anxiety and everything else gets better. So I'd say stick with the EMSAM. It seems to work in the majority of cases for those who can tolerate it. If you can tolerate it and have even a partial response then you coud look with hope towards Nardil or Parnate. Atypical APs like Risperdal and Abilify and Zyprexa and Seroquel could also help a lot in the future. Benzos aren't a great long-term option but if you're in a lot of pain and non-functional they do have their role for short-term acute relief. Your doctor should know that anxiety sufferers cannot become emotionally dependent on benzos.
I'm in a sort of similar position where my mind seems uncontrollable and loves to build these gigantic black cathedrals of despair every day and all I can do is gaze at them when everything I want to do in life gets neglected. It can be scary and demoralizing, especially if it's gone on for a long time but there is hope. I'm in my thirties also but I believe I've started the long process of getting better, thanks to this site. I think that right now even with the ambiguous state of psychiatry there exists enough information and tools to help you. As long as you're willing to research you own treatment you will eventually find what you're looking for. That's what I believe anyway. I wish you the best.
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