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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by herpills on January 21, 2011, at 7:21:07
Hi,
I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about how Abilify works with dopamine? Does it raise it or lower it? How is it supposed to help depression? herpills
Posted by Christ_empowered on January 21, 2011, at 10:00:21
In reply to Abilify and dopamine, posted by herpills on January 21, 2011, at 7:21:07
I'm not a doctor or all that into the technical aspects of meds, but...here's how its been explained to me, and what I've experienced.
Abilify is a high-potency antipsychotic. This mean it occupies a really, really high % of d2 receptors in the normal dose range. The "partial agonism" is a little more complicated. At lower doses, especially mixed with an antidepressant, Abilify can be somewhat stimulating. This happens with older antipsychotics, too; I read a small study once where they found that giving participants a micro-dose of Haldol (of all things!) improved speed, reaction time, and decreased errors on some sort of test they were giving them.
The higher up you go, the less stimulating/more "soothing" Abilify is. When I took 7.5-10mgs, I had less anxiety, but I also felt a mood "lift," albeit a minor one. As you go up higher, the D2 partial agonism still works, but its effects seem (to me) to be more in limiting EPS and cognitive dulling---the 30mgs dose I take, for instance, is great for mania and psychosis, but doesn't have any mood-elevating properties.
This was completely non-technical and based primarily on my own experience and what shrinks have told me. I hope it helped you a bit.
Posted by Phillipa on January 21, 2011, at 12:57:50
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine, posted by Christ_empowered on January 21, 2011, at 10:00:21
High dull low stimulating. That was the jest right? If so I understood which means you are a great teacher. Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on January 21, 2011, at 13:23:15
In reply to Abilify and dopamine, posted by herpills on January 21, 2011, at 7:21:07
Herpills, here's the lit major's version :)
It's supposed to balance overages and shortages of dopamine. My experience was along what C_E said. At 2.5mg, I felt like that old slap in the face snap out of it feeling. I was more functional and not quite uncomfortable. At 5-10mg I was crying and akanesia (spelling). (That is, it failed for me.) It is very potent. Are you wondering up, down, or staying on dose?
Posted by Conundrum on January 22, 2011, at 14:18:45
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine, posted by Christ_empowered on January 21, 2011, at 10:00:21
from the studies I have seen, it only boosts dopamine in prefrontal cortex. Sometimes you need to know where in the brain the changes are occuring, not just the transmitter. For example increasing dopamine in the prefrontal cortex would help with cognition and drive like the previous poster. It might not help so much with pleasure or a mood boost as a drug that increases dopamine in the nucleus accumbens, like zyprexa.
> I'm not a doctor or all that into the technical aspects of meds, but...here's how its been explained to me, and what I've experienced.
>
> Abilify is a high-potency antipsychotic. This mean it occupies a really, really high % of d2 receptors in the normal dose range. The "partial agonism" is a little more complicated. At lower doses, especially mixed with an antidepressant, Abilify can be somewhat stimulating. This happens with older antipsychotics, too; I read a small study once where they found that giving participants a micro-dose of Haldol (of all things!) improved speed, reaction time, and decreased errors on some sort of test they were giving them.
>
> The higher up you go, the less stimulating/more "soothing" Abilify is. When I took 7.5-10mgs, I had less anxiety, but I also felt a mood "lift," albeit a minor one. As you go up higher, the D2 partial agonism still works, but its effects seem (to me) to be more in limiting EPS and cognitive dulling---the 30mgs dose I take, for instance, is great for mania and psychosis, but doesn't have any mood-elevating properties.
>
>
> This was completely non-technical and based primarily on my own experience and what shrinks have told me. I hope it helped you a bit.
>
>
Posted by floatingbridge on January 22, 2011, at 16:50:44
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine, posted by Conundrum on January 22, 2011, at 14:18:45
Conundrum,
Have you tried Zyprexa?
Is it 'as potent' as abilify (fast acting, small dosage)?
That was recommended during my only hospitalization. The black box warning scared me off, and my treating physician was disappointed--said it was a good med (meaning, I assume, he'd personally saw response).
My own pdoc has never suggested it.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on January 22, 2011, at 19:41:07
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » Conundrum, posted by floatingbridge on January 22, 2011, at 16:50:44
FB abilify was recommended for you or zyprexa? Love Phillipa
Posted by msanjelpie on February 18, 2011, at 4:23:42
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on January 22, 2011, at 19:41:07
Tried Abilify at 10mg. Akathisia was horrible. Wanted to jump out of a moving car. Lowered dosage to 5mg. Akathisia not so bad but still something I couldn't tolerate.
Lowered dosage to 2.5mg. Akathisia symptoms went away. But so did most of the positive affects of the abilify; increased motivation, elevated mood and return of libido. Sad but better than nothing.
Son is taking 7.5 mg of Abilify with no adverse side effects.
Posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 13:45:23
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on January 22, 2011, at 19:41:07
Phillipa,
In hospital, Zyprexa was reccomended, which I declined for an awful one dose of seroquel. A few years ago, my pdoc prescribed abilify, which was fairly identical to the last poster regarding doses and akanasia (sp?).
Posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 13:46:46
In reply to Abilify and dopamine, posted by herpills on January 21, 2011, at 7:21:07
> Hi,
>
> I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about how Abilify works with dopamine? Does it raise it or lower it? How is it supposed to help depression? herpillsHerpills, how have you been doing?
Posted by herpills on February 20, 2011, at 13:59:12
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine, posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 13:46:46
Well, I have settled on 5mg of Abilify for now. I have tried doses between 2mg and 10mg. Of course 2mg had least side effects but I didn't see any benefits in mood. 10mg made me so tired and "spaced out" so 5mg seems to be the best spot for me. I do get some restlessness but I have used Klonopin and Benedryl to help with that.
I have gained about 10 lbs. since starting the Abilify...
herpills
Posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 14:29:00
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » floatingbridge, posted by herpills on February 20, 2011, at 13:59:12
Herpills, what are you addressing with the abilify add-on?
(The weight gain is abnormal. And notorious. I had it, too. I'd have to be a Puritan not to eat something extra with empty calories, but Abilify absolutely does something radical.)
fb
Posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2011, at 19:20:38
In reply to Re: Abilify » herpills, posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 14:29:00
FB don't the atypicals change metabolism in some way? Phillipa
Posted by herpills on February 22, 2011, at 21:03:22
In reply to Re: Abilify » herpills, posted by floatingbridge on February 20, 2011, at 14:29:00
> Herpills, what are you addressing with the abilify add-on?
Depression, for now. My pdoc originally wanted me on a higher dose of Abilify as my primary mood stabilizer, and then ditch the Lamictal, but I can't tolerate the higher doses, and I feel Lamictal does help with my depression. I have been able to lower the Lamictal from 200mg to 150mg since adding Abilify.
herpills
Posted by herpills on February 22, 2011, at 21:04:15
In reply to Re: Abilify » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on February 20, 2011, at 19:20:38
> FB don't the atypicals change metabolism in some way? Phillipa
The bigger question is, does it change back if you discontinue the med?
herpills
Posted by Phillipa on February 22, 2011, at 21:45:15
In reply to Re: Abilify » Phillipa, posted by herpills on February 22, 2011, at 21:04:15
Her Pills I would think so but then I don't know???? Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on February 23, 2011, at 15:30:32
In reply to Re: Abilify » Phillipa, posted by herpills on February 22, 2011, at 21:04:15
I was only taking abilify for maybe 10 months? My metabolism straightened out close to instantly. Long term usage or another individual...?
It's such a trade off many times. Little benefits here and there. Seems small amounts of abilify figure in many cocktails.
Good luck. I feel Abilify has potential risks and s/e of atypicals, but maybe some special benefits, esp low dose.
fb
Posted by msanjelpie on February 23, 2011, at 17:34:38
In reply to Abilify and dopamine, posted by herpills on January 21, 2011, at 7:21:07
"I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about how Abilify works with dopamine? Does it raise it or lower it? How is it supposed to help depression? herpills"
So have we determined if Abilify increases, decreases or stabilizes dopamine?
Posted by herpills on March 17, 2011, at 10:26:52
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » floatingbridge, posted by herpills on February 20, 2011, at 13:59:12
I went back down to 2mg. I couldn't tolerate the side effects of the higher doses, mainly feeling tired and also the weight gain was bothering me. I've already lost 3 lbs. since dropping the dose, and seem to have a little more energy.
I had some akathesia when I changed the dose but it seems to have gone away now.
herpills> Well, I have settled on 5mg of Abilify for now. I have tried doses between 2mg and 10mg. Of course 2mg had least side effects but I didn't see any benefits in mood. 10mg made me so tired and "spaced out" so 5mg seems to be the best spot for me. I do get some restlessness but I have used Klonopin and Benedryl to help with that.
>
> I have gained about 10 lbs. since starting the Abilify...
>
> herpills
Posted by herpills on March 17, 2011, at 10:28:19
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine, posted by msanjelpie on February 23, 2011, at 17:34:38
> "I was wondering if anyone could tell me a little about how Abilify works with dopamine? Does it raise it or lower it? How is it supposed to help depression? herpills"
>
> So have we determined if Abilify increases, decreases or stabilizes dopamine?
>I think it is supposed to "stabilize" dopamine. Of course, like all of these drugs I'm sure "the exact mechanism of Abilify is unknown" herpills
Posted by floatingbridge on March 17, 2011, at 11:44:49
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » msanjelpie, posted by herpills on March 17, 2011, at 10:28:19
Herpills,
Good news (sort of, right?). I didn't gain weight till above 2.5 or thereabouts. And no akanisia (sp!) detectable until 5+ for me.
Are you feeling any better? I'm hoping.
Posted by herpills on March 20, 2011, at 17:25:21
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » herpills, posted by floatingbridge on March 17, 2011, at 11:44:49
> Herpills,
>
> Good news (sort of, right?). I didn't gain weight till above 2.5 or thereabouts. And no akanisia (sp!) detectable until 5+ for me.
>
> Are you feeling any better? I'm hoping.
>
>Yes, doing better thank you! I don't give the meds all the credit though, the increase in sunlight is helping me I think. herpills
Posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2011, at 20:28:27
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine, posted by herpills on March 20, 2011, at 17:25:21
Think it's SAD? Phillipa
Posted by herpills on March 21, 2011, at 22:19:30
In reply to Re: Abilify and dopamine » herpills, posted by Phillipa on March 20, 2011, at 20:28:27
> Think it's SAD? Phillipa
Many years ago my old doc thought it was SAD as my depression was always worse in the winter, but in the past few years I have had a couple major depressive episodes in the summer. herpills
This is the end of the thread.
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