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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 24 to 48 of 142. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on August 29, 2010, at 19:09:48
In reply to Re: disability » olivia12, posted by chujoe on August 29, 2010, at 7:10:35
I kind of agree with you. I personally know a few people who are on disability for "depression".
There is simply zero motivation to recover.
That being said, there are those that do legitimately diserve it.
Unfortunate,
Linkadge
Posted by emmanuel98 on August 29, 2010, at 19:38:23
In reply to Re: disability, posted by linkadge on August 29, 2010, at 19:09:48
I know two people who are on disability. One has rapid cycling bipolar which is barely controlled by meds. The other is thoroughly disabled by Tourette's. Both had to fight like hell to get disability benefits from social security, which amount to something like $800-$900 a month. In addition, you are allowed to work up to 16 hours a week, but the kind of work most disabled people are qualified for are typically low-paying work like returning library books to the stacks or walking dogs.
I'm sorry, Olivia, for you and your children. Apparently, you need 40 quarters (ten years) or paying into the system to be eligible for benefits, but I didn't think this applied to survivor's benefits, which are far more generous than disability benefits.
Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2010, at 19:57:43
In reply to Re: disability, posted by emmanuel98 on August 29, 2010, at 19:38:23
This is interesting. I didn't know about the time period of working. Is it possible your husband didn't claim his earnings during the time he was writing? I'm also so sorry he died. Hopefully your employment in health care is in a field that pays a decent wage. I know being an RN does. Phillipa ps got into it as knew a divorce coming and needed a way to support my three children. And I did make great to me money. Didn't get much in child support and what I got chose to send my youngest to an exclusive girl's school in CT to provide a good enviornment. I also got some of the tuition on scholarship from grades. Phillipa
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2010, at 0:32:54
In reply to Re: disability, posted by chujoe on August 29, 2010, at 12:22:16
Posted by Dr. Bob on August 30, 2010, at 0:35:15
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Roslynn on August 29, 2010, at 16:39:53
> You sound like a really bitter person!
Did you see that she apologized? Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're a bad person, and I'm sorry if this hurts you.
More information about posting policies and tips on alternative ways to express yourself, including a link to a nice post by Dinah on I-statements, are in the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceOlivia, I'm also sorry if you felt hurt.
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above post, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sigismund on August 30, 2010, at 3:42:53
In reply to disability, posted by olivia12 on August 28, 2010, at 22:37:15
>If my response was overly angry, I'm sorry.
Me too.
Posted by sigismund on August 30, 2010, at 3:45:58
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 14:00:12
> I was searching for a "delete" option on here when I realized how horrible I was being
I know exactly how you felt.
Posted by olivia12 on August 30, 2010, at 19:32:19
In reply to Re: disability » olivia12, posted by sigismund on August 30, 2010, at 3:45:58
Thank you for the nice feedback all--it is much appreciated. I'm not sure what my ex did before I met him, but I was blown away when, after his death, I reviewed his work history with Social Security. They told me he had only earned 31 credits and needed 32 to quailfy his kids for survivor benefits. We are talking about a college educated man of 51 y/o. He had some difficulities in his past re: to mental health, but I suppose I didn't know the significance of it. Thankfully I make a decent living and am able to support our children (2 and 3 when he passsed), but it irritates/saddens me that my kids will never see a penny of the benefits that he should have made sure were available to them. I suppose that is where my feelings are misdirected--getting angry at people that are getting some type of govt support is more tangible than being mad at a dead man, ya know? And so while my life is very blessed and full despite a tragic event, I do at times feel the largeness of it all. Now, this is most definitely where those nasty comments are rooted. Thanks for letting me better understand this.
Posted by obsidian on August 30, 2010, at 22:40:24
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 30, 2010, at 19:32:19
wow, I'm impressed by how this thread turned out.
It is certainly hard to make it in this world, and I can understand why you might feel incredibly angry, frustrated, cheated when you and your children should have more.I probably relate to different aspects of this issue.
Not working has never been an option for me, but it has been incredibly difficult at times just to get through the day.
and then there's my father for instance, an odd guy, mentally ill? if I want to call him that, but is he justified in abandoning his children and offering no financial support?I wish you happier times.
Posted by chujoe on August 31, 2010, at 7:15:09
In reply to Re: disability » olivia12, posted by obsidian on August 30, 2010, at 22:40:24
Olivia, I love your phrase "the largeness of it all." Hardly an hour goes by that I don't contemplate the largeness of it all.
Posted by olivia12 on August 31, 2010, at 20:11:54
In reply to Re: disability, posted by chujoe on August 31, 2010, at 7:15:09
Thanks Chu--yes, it is all very "large":)
Posted by utopizen on September 1, 2010, at 0:11:43
In reply to Re: disability, posted by violette on August 28, 2010, at 22:47:15
First:
Disability is not funded by the Social Security Trust; it is an independent trust. Its funds comes from the people who put money into it while working; if one didn't work, disabled or not, they won't receive it. If one's not qualified for it, and they're very poor, they may qualify for Social Security Income. It may also come from the same independent trust; I'm not sure.
Second:
I don't know how much you make, but few can actually live off of disability benefits alone.
They must stay afloat by combining it with $50/week max. food stamps (do you envy people living off of $50/week in groceries?), public housing (would you trade in your job to depend on public housing 3-year waitlist? and trade in your place for public projects?)-- and if they're lucky, family and friends to provide just basic living allotments for medical co-pays, other living expenses, utilities, and housing after their social security check depletes itself on a modest living space alone.
However, the reality is this: most people enter Disability insurance during an economic downtown, often due to mental health issues that already had such folks hanging by a thread when the economy was *good*. Add life stressors like losing a job, then a home/apartment, then a car, getting bill collectors harassing them daily, and feeling like a pathetic, dependent burden to their families as they receive financial support from. sound more fun than working now?
Now they have no funds short of temporary unemployment insurance, and no reason to get out of bed or distract themselves from their physical health/mental health condition with work. And so it worsens. Do I think this is wise? No.
One's either in a hospice as an invalid or they're not; if they bothered to volunteer in the mornings, they'd feel a lot more dignity in spite of things, they'd feel empowered, and would less likely view themselves by the feel-my-pain reclusive invalids-to-be-club. (I hope no one misreads this to suggest I am suggesting those on disability are in such a club).
Living in one's apartment, to top it all off, is rarely anything but severely depressing. One's less likely to exercise, go outside, or maintain good habits, etc. And, so by not having a job, they are effectively doing the opposite of what many might benefit from something to busy themselves with and enter a healthy routine that gets them out of bed.
My advice to anyone who is disabled: 1) Medicine alone is not going to cure anything. 2) Vigorous exercise, if your body is not itself disabled (the bigger the rut, the more vigorous it must be) 3) cook healthy meals you will feel proud of and enjoy. 4) make good habits, wake up @ same time each morning, and avoid your apartment/house go to a library, museums, travel abroad to do community service in africa, go hiking, body permitting
avoid TV. Read a book. You will feel more proud of yourself.
Experience nature. Clinical studies from UM recently established witnessing scenes in nature has a positive correlation on one's mental well-being. Take a high, look up at the stars, climb a mountain.
Volunteer. There's always someone worse of than ourselves, yet still maintains a better outlook than most others around us. Volunteering makes you feel good, and gives us perspective.
Posted by violette on September 1, 2010, at 1:22:24
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 30, 2010, at 19:32:19
Hi Olivia,
Thanks for sharing you anger and sadness with us. I am very sorry to hear of the loss of your husband. The children's emotional losses must add so much to your pain and abilities to manage their distress while having so much of your own? Of course children are very resilient as well, so don't forget that.
I suppose I think of the SSI situation similar to social safety nets in general. That 1 credit your husband was missing, seems ridiculous. I'll share with you that my child's father has been alive, but rarely contributed to supporting our child, just did not pay or help out but for one year at one point, about $50 a week...that didn't last long, then maybe a lump payment of a couple hundred a few years later, for example.
I had applied for food stamps and other help in the past, but always made sometimes just a few dollars over the monthly limit to qualify for anything. But strangely, I never gave it a second thought, just decided I had to work second jobs to support us..waitress, sales, whatever. This hurt my child as he was home alone alot. No one benefitted from the cutoff points used for social safety nets. Not even the taxpayers, imo. I also believe my prolonged situation added to my current mental health issues...and could have been prevented..i believe in the bio-psych-social model of mental illness so that's an opinion from my experience. My parents were doing just fine financially, but abandoned me before I was even an adult. So that was never an option.
One of the differences between you and I, perhaps, only in context of dealing with the outcome as our circumstances are of course much differnet-is that I never 'got angry'. I was in independent mode for so long "I need no one and can survive whatever!", that I just moved along, not giving the issues another thought...
That this did not have a good effect in the end. It actually worked against me; wish I had seen that now. What I am saying is that getting angry is a healthy thing to do...(of course this forum might have been the best venue of choice to initially discuss disability anger!)...
And I bet you will benefit in the long run from the actions you are taking today. Today I can get angry at 'systems', particularly politics and government spending, the mental health system, etc, but still have trouble getting angry at actual people who are close to me-regardless with what they had one.
So despite some of the darkness in your life right now, you do have alot going for you despite the unfortunate circumstances. It's like you are seeing some light at the end of the tunnel. In my case, I never even looked for the light and am paying for my mistakes. Best to you and your children. :)
Posted by EastC on September 1, 2010, at 17:30:10
In reply to Re: disability, posted by violette on September 1, 2010, at 1:22:24
Speaking of disability I have only been on a short term employer/insurance-company sponsored version of it. It is due to expire on September 7th. That said I am not ready to return to work unless my employer can provide me a reasonable accommodation (i.e. going in later in the morning due to my chronic insomnia). I don't know how realistic this will be but it is all I can think of at this point. The neurologists I have seen each have a different opinion but none have been helpful thus far. My next appointment is with a neurologist who originally recommended Xyrem as one possibility back in the spring of '09 (I have been on all/most of the other ones so far over the past 10 years). I am nervous about my career future and my ability to support myself if my employer cannot accommodate a later schedule - although if I can find employment with another company that operates in the afternoon or evening or if I can become self employed that would be great and I wouldn't need disability of any kind. This is the first time I have ever been on disability and I have been with this company for 6 years with a flawless record. Any advice or support is most welcomed.
Posted by Phillipa on September 1, 2010, at 19:50:14
In reply to Re: disability, posted by EastC on September 1, 2010, at 17:30:10
East no idea what your job position or skills are but my husband and I own our own home mortgage free, no bill collectors as sell on ebay. If you find your nitch it provides a good income and sell overseas as well. Phillipa
Posted by Leo33 on September 4, 2010, at 14:03:56
In reply to disability, posted by olivia12 on August 28, 2010, at 22:37:15
Sorry to hear Olivia, I have thought many times of sacrificing my life so my lazy disabled *ss won't be such a burden on people. I beat myself up daily because I seem not to be able to do something productive and contribute to this country more than I have.
I have often thought if they would just allow us no good bums to purge ourselves from this society, the USA economy would recover. Every time I try or think about it they hospitalize me and put me on really expensive meds all on taxpayer dollars. Save us and everyone the trouble and allow a safe and painless solution like lethal injection for us.
I can't even get Social Security, they have denied me 4 times, even though I paid into the system when I was working. My latest case started in October 2008 and is still going and at the hearing stage now which will take another 18 months. Because of this I have now exhausted my 5 year lifetime limit of welfare. When I lose that and my medicaid, I will no longer be able to afford the meds that really aren't working anyway and a life of misery, poverty, and abuse on the streets await. I already have the misery and poverty.
In my forties, I guess having no love, never been married, no kids, unable to find or maintain employment, a whopping $210 dollars a month of welfare, living off my family's and country's back really makes one think they are living the high life.
I give you the permission to come and shoot this lazy no good for nothing piece of crud in the head and put me out of my misery. Stop complaining about us and do the dirty work, I agree with you! Better than ending up in jail or a state mental institution anyway or homeless on the streets.
If we could just kill off all the poor people, the irresponsible, the sick, the disabled, the criminals, the USA could profit again!
Be thankful you are not one of us!!!!! You are a winner and the strongest survive, so enjoy your security and happiness.
God Bless You!
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 4, 2010, at 14:37:49
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Leo33 on September 4, 2010, at 14:03:56
Err, have you read the rest of the thread, like the bit where Olivia apologised.
> Sorry to hear Olivia, I have thought many times of sacrificing my life so my lazy disabled *ss won't be such a burden on people. I beat myself up daily because I seem not to be able to do something productive and contribute to this country more than I have.
>
> I have often thought if they would just allow us no good bums to purge ourselves from this society, the USA economy would recover. Every time I try or think about it they hospitalize me and put me on really expensive meds all on taxpayer dollars. Save us and everyone the trouble and allow a safe and painless solution like lethal injection for us.
>
> I can't even get Social Security, they have denied me 4 times, even though I paid into the system when I was working. My latest case started in October 2008 and is still going and at the hearing stage now which will take another 18 months. Because of this I have now exhausted my 5 year lifetime limit of welfare. When I lose that and my medicaid, I will no longer be able to afford the meds that really aren't working anyway and a life of misery, poverty, and abuse on the streets await. I already have the misery and poverty.
>
> In my forties, I guess having no love, never been married, no kids, unable to find or maintain employment, a whopping $210 dollars a month of welfare, living off my family's and country's back really makes one think they are living the high life.
>
> I give you the permission to come and shoot this lazy no good for nothing piece of crud in the head and put me out of my misery. Stop complaining about us and do the dirty work, I agree with you! Better than ending up in jail or a state mental institution anyway or homeless on the streets.
>
> If we could just kill off all the poor people, the irresponsible, the sick, the disabled, the criminals, the USA could profit again!
>
> Be thankful you are not one of us!!!!! You are a winner and the strongest survive, so enjoy your security and happiness.
>
> God Bless You!
>
>
Posted by violette on September 4, 2010, at 21:18:19
In reply to Re: disability, posted by Leo33 on September 4, 2010, at 14:03:56
{{((Leo33))}}
Posted by proudfoot on September 4, 2010, at 21:35:02
In reply to Re: disability » Leo33, posted by violette on September 4, 2010, at 21:18:19
> {{((Leo33))}}
Care to translate what the brackets and parentheses used like this mean for those of us not in the know???? Is it some type of cyber-hug to show we really care about Leo33, or is it a not-so-subtle attempt to somehow cyber-strangle him (which is how I took your post)?
The idealist in me wants to believe the former might be the case, but the realist/cynic in me believes the latter. Sorry if I'm nit-picking, but a less-cryptic post with some explanation would be more helpful for this reader.
Posted by violette on September 4, 2010, at 21:51:27
In reply to Re: disability, posted by proudfoot on September 4, 2010, at 21:35:02
Hi Proudfoot,
I was giving Leo33 a hug because I was not sure what else to say at the moment...and felt like extending some compassion to him....SLS:
"However, major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder are very real biological illnesses, even though they are often inappropriately referred to as "mood" illnesses." - SLS
Just wondering-what difference does it make if one's illness is 'biological' or 'psychological'? I am curious as I have never seen any research conclusive enough to draw an actual line as to what components of an illness are either/or. Mental illness is mental illness-the suffering seems the same to me-maybe I am missing something here..
Do people with more psychologically-based mental illnes symptoms somehow suffer LESS than those with primarly biological mental illness symptoms? Are psychological mental illness symptoms of depression/mood/anxiety somehow 'less real' than 'biological' symptoms of depression/mood/anxiety? You really have me wondering about your rationale here!
Posted by proudfoot on September 4, 2010, at 22:14:38
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by violette on September 4, 2010, at 21:51:27
Thanks for the explanation - I'd never seen anything before typed like that, and had no idea what it meant... Sorry if I seemed rude, wasn't my intention. I too hoped we could somehow show compassion to Leo33, who is obviously in a bad life situation.
So Leo33, I want to echo those thoughts. Sorry life sucks so much at times and that the system seems so stacked against us. There are those of us out here who do care, and who feel your pain. I wish that somehow that knowledge might make your pain less intense.
Doug
> Hi Proudfoot,
> I was giving Leo33 a hug because I was not sure what else to say at the moment...and felt like extending some compassion to him....
>
> SLS:
>
> "However, major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder are very real biological illnesses, even though they are often inappropriately referred to as "mood" illnesses." - SLS
>
> Just wondering-what difference does it make if one's illness is 'biological' or 'psychological'? I am curious as I have never seen any research conclusive enough to draw an actual line as to what components of an illness are either/or. Mental illness is mental illness-the suffering seems the same to me-maybe I am missing something here..
>
> Do people with more psychologically-based mental illnes symptoms somehow suffer LESS than those with primarly biological mental illness symptoms? Are psychological mental illness symptoms of depression/mood/anxiety somehow 'less real' than 'biological' symptoms of depression/mood/anxiety? You really have me wondering about your rationale here!
Posted by morgan miller on September 4, 2010, at 22:27:02
In reply to Re: disability, posted by olivia12 on August 29, 2010, at 14:00:12
I had a knee jerk reaction going on in my head after reading your first few posts, and I'm not on disability, though I have been in bad enough shape that I probably should have been(My family took care of me for a short while). You are forgiven, at least you had the mindfulness and respect to apologize for some of your comments.
Morgan
Posted by SLS on September 5, 2010, at 5:13:34
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS, posted by violette on September 4, 2010, at 21:51:27
> > "However, major depressive disorder and bipolar disorder are very real biological illnesses, even though they are often inappropriately referred to as "mood" illnesses." - SLS
> Just wondering-what difference does it make if one's illness is 'biological' or 'psychological'?Treatment choice, perhaps?
> I am curious as I have never seen any research conclusive enough to draw an actual line as to what components of an illness are either/or
I have seen research that I feel is conclusive. In addition, the careful study of one patient convinces me.
Morphological and electrical activity changes in the brain along with neuroendocrine and autonomic abnormalities occur in MDD and BD. It is more than simply a change in mood.
> Mental illness is mental illness-the suffering seems the same to me-maybe I am missing something here..
A kick in the butt and falling on your butt feel the same, but the remedies are different.
> Do people with more psychologically-based mental illnes symptoms somehow suffer LESS than those with primarly biological mental illness symptoms?
Who knows? That you make a distinction at all is a step in the right direction.
> Are psychological mental illness symptoms of depression/mood/anxiety somehow 'less real' than 'biological' symptoms of depression/mood/anxiety? You really have me wondering about your rationale here!
I made a statement regarding the phenomenology of MDD and BD. I was not making a comparison to any other illness or condition.
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000401/msgs/29296.html
I can't believe its been 10 years already!
- Scott
Posted by violette on September 5, 2010, at 11:37:27
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » violette, posted by SLS on September 5, 2010, at 5:13:34
"Morphological and electrical activity changes in the brain along with neuroendocrine and autonomic abnormalities occur in MDD and BD. It is more than simply a change in mood."
The same thing occurs with borderline patients, or so the research I've read indicates. It's pretty amazing how childhood emotional development can change how our brains work based upon the temperment we were born with...
I don't want to throw this thread off topic, but at the same time, I wondered why you might have pointed out the difference of 'psychological' depression and 'biological' depression in terms of disability...The treatments provided are the same for both, the symptoms much the same. THis is because they are usually a combination of the 2-not one or the other.
ps my relative on disability has a 'biological' illness-bipolar-on top of a 'psychological' one, and takes mood stabilizing drugs like most everyone here.
Posted by violette on September 5, 2010, at 11:52:41
In reply to Re: disability - Proudfoot - SLS » violette, posted by SLS on September 5, 2010, at 5:13:34
I read that link - nice essay you wrote there.
What makes a considerable difference is that some people are largely ego-syntonic, and might remain that way for a lifetime...Others might have a meltdown before they get out of that state. It's unfortunate.
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