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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 20:06:37
Here's my background, I am a life-long depressive whose condition was significantly alleviated in '95 by huge doses of Paxil, (90mg./day). I stopped taking it in 2000 and went into an abysmal depression six weeks later. I resumed taking my massive Paxil dose and, six weeks after that, my depression was again under control.
I have twice tried to switch to another anti-depressant because I didn't like the sexual side effects of Paxil. Four years ago, I tried Cymbalta, only to find that, like Paxil, it only worked at twice the normal adult dose. I resumed Paxil and, about two years ago, switched to Lexapro at at normal dosage, (10mg.), which has proven to be just as effective as Paxil in a mega dose. However, the sexually neutering side-effects were, if anything, more profound with Lexapro at normal dosage than with Paxil at high-dosage.
About 14 months ago, I decided to halve my Lexapro dosage and see how I did with that. My mood remained the same but the neutering was just as bad. Four months ago, I halved the dosage again, so that I am now taking only 2.5 mg. of Lexapro. My mood has remained steady and the neutering side effects have vanished.
The only variable that changed concurrent with my diminishment of Lexapro is that I have been taking fistfuls of diphenhydramine, (Benedryl), for chronic rhinitis since beginning the reduction.
I can only assume that the diphenhydramine is having an anti-depressant effect, either on its own or a a catalyst for Lexapro.
The diphenhydramine doesn't make me drowsy or slow my cognition. I wonder if this is because it is being "used up" by my condition as narcotics are "used up" by pain so that pain sufferers don't get high.
Has anyone had a similar experience? Has anyone read anything about diphenhydramine being an anti-depressant?
Posted by janejane on December 26, 2009, at 20:29:43
In reply to Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 20:06:37
No, but have read about the antihistamine Chlorpheniramine having possible antidepressant effect.
Posted by sam K on December 26, 2009, at 20:54:40
In reply to Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 20:06:37
i think the first SSRI was discovered because of benedryl. Lol, i dont know the details, but Im pretty sure.
Posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 22:41:56
In reply to Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 20:06:37
Thanks for the feedback.
samK, it would be just too ironic if the sovereign anodyne to my depression was always out there. If only I had developed chronic rhinitis when I was sixteen!
Posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2009, at 0:29:27
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 22:41:56
Strange the one time tried it for bee strings felt tired but awake. Wasn't depressed at the time. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on December 27, 2009, at 6:18:28
In reply to Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 20:06:37
Prozac was accidentally discovered as a variation of Benadryl if I recall correctly.
With suspicion of inflammation being a cause of depression, high dose antihistamine could be having a direct effect on that too.
Benadryl is a weak serotonin reuptake inhibitor.
I think the more we learn about meds, the more we realize we don't know. I am very glad this is working so well for you though. We may never know why, but who cares! :-) Just stay well.
Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2009, at 12:01:56
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by bleauberry on December 27, 2009, at 6:18:28
Yes, benadryl does have some antidepressant effect. It has activity as a SSRI. Studies suggest that it is active in animal models of depression and anxiety.
I think the main reason it has never been presued or promoted as an AD was because of:
a) its availablilty
b) its anticholinergic/antihisaminergic side effects
c) the developement of derivitives (ie prozac) that were cleaner and to be made available by prescription.As mentioned the antihistamine chlorpheniramine also has AD properties. I think with chlorpheniramine, the ratio of SSRI action to other receptors is higher.
Linkadge
Posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 12:36:53
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 22:41:56
Informed by the responses that chlorpheniramine may be an antihistamine with even more antidepressant qualities than diphenhydramine, I did some online research.
Here is the States, Chlor-Trimeton is the brand name version of chlorpheniramine. The best price that I could find was #48/4 hr./4 mg.tabs/$10 at Walmart. There is a 12 hr. timed-release version but Schering-Plough, (now Merck as of November), the manufacturer, stopped producing it. Supposedly, it will reappear in 2010.
Searching for the generic, chlorpheniramine maleate, I found #1000/4 hr./4 mg. tabs/ for as low as $5 from Advance Pharmaceuticals in Hong Kong. However, I am concerned about the purity and potency of the product. Additionally, some listings suggest that it may intended for veterinary use. Does the FDA or any other agency check products offered for sale as drugs in the US? Can I check online?
Posted by SLS on December 27, 2009, at 12:54:38
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by linkadge on December 27, 2009, at 12:01:56
Do you think there is any possibility that the antidepressant effect observed by Highhatsize was the result of a combination of serotonin reuptake inhibition and anticholinergic properties? I sometimes wonder if Paxil helps some people for this reason.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on December 27, 2009, at 12:55:45
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 12:36:53
Which tricyclics have you tried?
- Scott
Posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 13:00:32
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant? » linkadge, posted by SLS on December 27, 2009, at 12:54:38
My research has revealed the reason that Chlor-Trimeton 12 hr. tabs are unavailable. Schering-Plough pulled them from the market in July, 2008 because of failure to comply with "cGMP", current Good Manufacturing Practice, by the company to which they sub-contracted manufacture. That's from the FDA website.
Posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 13:03:36
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant? » highhatsize, posted by SLS on December 27, 2009, at 12:55:45
> Which tricyclics have you tried?
>
>
> - ScottTo Scott:
Every one that was on the market in the 1970s.
Posted by SLS on December 27, 2009, at 13:10:23
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 13:03:36
> > Which tricyclics have you tried?
> Every one that was on the market in the 1970s.What was your experience with them? Did imipramine work best?
- Scott
Posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 13:21:32
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant? » highhatsize, posted by SLS on December 27, 2009, at 13:10:23
> > > Which tricyclics have you tried?
>
> > Every one that was on the market in the 1970s.
>
> What was your experience with them? Did imipramine work best?
>
>
> - Scott
>They were all uniformly impotent.
- High
Posted by janejane on December 27, 2009, at 13:39:51
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 13:21:32
If the benadryl/lexpro combo is working well, I think you should stick with it. If you take a break to try something else, it might not work as well if/when you decide to go back to it.
Posted by highhatsize on December 27, 2009, at 15:46:05
In reply to Re: Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by janejane on December 27, 2009, at 13:39:51
> If the benadryl/lexpro combo is working well, I think you should stick with it. If you take a break to try something else, it might not work as well if/when you decide to go back to it.
To janejane:
Thanks. I always factor that possibility in. The fact that benedryl/lexapro is working well makes me leery of change. However, feeling good is not the same as feeling GREAT.
Posted by bleauberry on December 28, 2009, at 18:52:59
In reply to Diphenhydramine an antidepressant?, posted by highhatsize on December 26, 2009, at 20:06:37
I was curious about a few things.
When you say fistfulls of benadryl, what are the actual doses?
Did you get sedation fogginess stuff when you first started it? Developed tolerance to that over time? Or those side effects just never happened?
Are there longterm consequences of using high dose benadryl? I don't think there are, but if anyone would know it is probably you so I was just curious.
I am not familiar with what you are using the benadryl for. Rhinitis? Could you educate me on that?
Thanks so much!
This is the end of the thread.
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