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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
dr-bob@uchicago.eduShown: posts 5 to 29 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on November 6, 2009, at 18:07:13
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » uncouth, posted by metafunj on November 6, 2009, at 16:35:55
Yeah, I don't know with vitamin D. Its funny because most of the summer I have bad insomnia then in the winter I sleep like a log.
If I start supplemementing with vitamin D, I get the insomnia back, unless I keep it to 400 IU or less.
Linkadge
Posted by softheprairie on November 7, 2009, at 0:52:55
In reply to Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by uncouth on November 6, 2009, at 9:53:14
Well, I've been supplementing it heavily of late (like often 6,000 to 8,000 iu per day, when the U.S. recommended daily allowance is 400 iu), to raise my blood level of it, and it has coincided with better mood for me. I've become a big believer in it.
Posted by Sigismund on November 8, 2009, at 14:09:17
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by linkadge on November 6, 2009, at 18:07:13
>if I start supplemementing with vitamin D, I get the insomnia back
Yeah, I was wondering about that and thought it might have done it.
Posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 19:30:45
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by Sigismund on November 8, 2009, at 14:09:17
I don't get insomnia from D3. For that matter tired all the time I think I could just quit the benzos as only on a little more than 5mg of valium and lmg xanax a day. Which seems I don't need. Love Phillipa
Posted by Netch on November 9, 2009, at 7:06:21
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by Phillipa on November 8, 2009, at 19:30:45
I get insomnia from fish liver oil.
Synthetic vitamin D3 gives me more energy and mental clarity without making my sleep disorder worse.
Posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2009, at 18:55:04
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by Netch on November 9, 2009, at 7:06:21
Netch what's your dose seems more docs prescribing each day for various conditions. I sure could use the energy. Thanks Phillipa ps isn't there also a prescription grade of D3?
Posted by floatingbridge on November 10, 2009, at 20:55:35
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by TenMan on November 6, 2009, at 10:03:20
Ten Men,
I remember you linked d3 w/ vit. k for better bone health. I'm taking this combo myself. No problem on fish oils either--just feel better.
fb
Posted by Netch on November 11, 2009, at 7:55:44
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Netch, posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2009, at 18:55:04
> Netch what's your dose seems more docs prescribing each day for various conditions. I sure could use the energy. Thanks Phillipa ps isn't there also a prescription grade of D3?
I'm not sure about D3 prescription grades.
I'm on 6-10k IU/day except during the summer months when I only take 2k.
Posted by floatingbridge on November 11, 2009, at 15:23:38
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Netch, posted by Phillipa on November 9, 2009, at 18:55:04
> Netch what's your dose seems more docs prescribing each day for various conditions. I sure could use the energy. Thanks Phillipa ps isn't there also a prescription grade of D3?
Phillipa, when I was really low, a doc gave me a script for 50,000iu which I took once a week for 12 weeks along with a daily dose of 2,000 iu per day. I continue now on the 2,000, plus the vitamin k.
I googled the 50,000--no adverse effects--pretty standard therapy. Some have taken 100,000 iu per week.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2009, at 20:00:49
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Phillipa, posted by floatingbridge on November 11, 2009, at 15:23:38
fb thanks I saw the bone connection in a search and the K must remember to get K how much dose wise? Love Phillipa
Posted by floatingbridge on November 12, 2009, at 0:04:05
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » floatingbridge, posted by Phillipa on November 11, 2009, at 20:00:49
> fb thanks I saw the bone connection in a search and the K must remember to get K how much dose wise? Love Phillipa
Not really sure on the dose of K--maybe ask Ten Men?
fb
Posted by Phillipa on November 12, 2009, at 18:50:41
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by TenMan on November 6, 2009, at 10:03:20
Ten Man posted the video only to my profile on facebook. Thanks Phillipa
Posted by Vincent _QC on November 15, 2009, at 22:09:50
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone?, posted by Sigismund on November 8, 2009, at 14:09:17
> >if I start supplemementing with vitamin D, I get the insomnia back
>
> Yeah, I was wondering about that and thought it might have done it.I always wondering why peoples think that vitamins can really change something in the anxiety disorders???
I take huge amount of Vitamin D (50 000 units a day - I have them RX... not the regular 400ui or 1000ui bottles find on the tablets of the drugstore....) and take also Vitamin B complex as well and fish oil ... and NEVER feelt an improvement... nothing at all...
I think peoples should stop believe everything they read on the internet... no "naturals" products exist to help to cope with the anxiety (panic attack or social phobia).... anyway, they are not so natural, these vitamins are mostly chimicals elements...
I loose so much money on natural products who was suppose to help me for my anxiety and look where I am now... i'm stuck with the same old problems since years!!!!!
One good thing only work for panic attacks... Paxil... that's it... but Paxil mean weight gain!...
Also, i'm tired to read thread about the Nardil or Parnate... they are NOT the best meds for social anxiety disorders problem with comorbidity like atypical depression... I try both of them and never improve...they are the worst in term of side-effects and dangerousity....
The parnate can KILL YOU!!! You don't play with meds who can give hypertensives crisis, without food interraction!!! IF you like visited emergency room often than you are in the good category of meds...maoi's are good for that... but not helping much for something else...
The heart can support the high pulse rate of a panic attack... but the heart cannot support the high blood pressure that those MAOI's give to peoples...
Posted by softheprairie on November 15, 2009, at 23:29:55
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Sigismund, posted by Vincent _QC on November 15, 2009, at 22:09:50
I'm sorry to hear the vitamin D and other things haven't worked out for you.
Posted by Phillipa on November 15, 2009, at 23:35:04
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Sigismund, posted by Vincent _QC on November 15, 2009, at 22:09:50
Hi Vincent yes you had horrible reactions to parnate and nardil. Back on the ssri's now right. I have to take D3 with ca mg for osteoporosis and they now believe vita k with it for bones. Love Ya Phillipa
Posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 1:32:13
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » uncouth, posted by metafunj on November 6, 2009, at 16:35:55
Posted by Vincent_QC on November 20, 2009, at 5:54:05
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? (nm) » metafunj, posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 1:32:13
Hummmm... not only the Vitamin D3 doesn't help at all... but all the others ones didn't help either!!!
Also, Vitamin D3 are simply Vitamin D... since only Vitamin D2 and D3 exist, they only use Vitamin D3 in the "not so" natural product now... because it's the one who is more well metabolised by the body... Vitamin D2 is not avaible since a while... so all the Vitamin D supplements are from D3!!!
One day I fall on a website where they claimed that taking high dose (1500 to 3000 mg/day) of Vitamin B3(nicotinic acid or niacin) has the same effect that taking Valium (Diazepam)...
What a mistake and a lost of money...
Peoples don't think that natural products are not natural at all... and higher dosage of vitamin B can be dangerous...as well as any others vitamins...
Peoples think that because it's sell in the "NATURAL products section", that's mean that it's safe and without side-effect!!!
We are lucky in the Canada cause "Health Canada" will do a clean up of the natural products avaible to sell in the drugstore or anywhere else!!! It's a new law and all the vitamins or any other not so natural products , who are judge not safe at all, will be remove from the market...
Anyway, in the Canada, the number of natural products avaible is a lot more limited than in the States...you will never see products like L-Dopa, GABA or Inositol sold in pills format here...
Anyway with the Vitamin B3, I had side-effects of cardiac arrhythmia, flushing, indigestion... and the list goes on... I used it for one month... I was not aware that those side-effects was comming from the Vitamin B3... I see no improve... no decrease in my daily intake of Rivotril... felt nothing except side-effects.... I do small research on google and find out that those side-effects was linked to Vitamin B3!!! So I stop using it and my state return to the normal... no more flushing or arrhythmia...
One thing to remember... no natural products can replace the meds and have a benefict effect on the anxiety and depression!!!
And no, i'm not a PRO-meds... I lived a long time without using them to manage my anxiety... but with time, it's seem that anxiety always return in force ...you have remission for years and after you have anxiety for years... that's always on and off...
Yeah, they sell Omega-3 pills everywhere or 5HTP supplements and claim they are good for the mood... that's just b*llsh*t... Omega 3 pills are only good for the heart... nothing else...
Also, higher dosage of Vitamin B (Vitamin B1 (thiamine), Vitamin B2 (riboflavin, Vitamin B3 (niacin or niacinamide, Vitamin B5 (pantothenic acid), Vitamin B6 (pyridoxine, pyridoxal, or pyridoxamine, or pyridoxine hydrochloride), Vitamin B7 (biotin), Vitamin B9 (folic acid)
Vitamin B12 ) are used in the "Red Bull" energy drink... If someone with anxiety problems like panic attack drink one bottle of it, i'm sure it will triger panic attacks on that person...In the USA, they sell energy pills and drinks everywhere... you stop at the gas station and they have the bootles of pills just near the cash register....it's like nobodies are aware of the VERY BAD and DANGEROUS effects of those energy drink or pills...
Ho and the green tea or the white tea... very popular also... in pills format.... very bad also for anxiety!!! Yeah, it's a very good antioxidant... but that's not good for the mood or the anxiety as well...
Anyway, a lot of studies on PUBMED point out the fact that vitamins supplements of any kind are not good for anxiety and depression...
That's my point of view, and the one of a lot of Doctors who do research on that field...
Someone who will have a daily healtly diet will never had to use vitamins supplements...
Little exception of peoples who need them because they had a gastric by-pass, like me... but well that's another story...
And no, i'm not frustrated... or angry... i'm just tired to read post about Vitamins or other natural products... they don't work for depression or any others mood disorders...
Posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2009, at 17:15:57
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » morganator, posted by Vincent_QC on November 20, 2009, at 5:54:05
Hi Vincent,
I hear you--it's easy to waste a ton of cash at the vitamin/supplement department. (I have!) I just want to chime in that for some people, like myself, a multi-pronged approach is necessary. I happen to run low on D3. So I take extra daily. I also have added fish oils and take extra of those. I do well on them (I have heard others here complain of SE's).
Movement in moderation, good diet, therapy, and now meditation--anyhow, I think I've made my point--they all help; however--I still need my meds. Slowly, as I learn more, I learn about adjunct ways to help myself. No 'cure' yet, I'm afraid. If I do find one, I'll post everyone asap ;-)
Hang in there--we're all here together!
fb
Posted by desolationrower on November 20, 2009, at 17:19:40
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » morganator, posted by Vincent_QC on November 20, 2009, at 5:54:05
Hi vincent. hope you're well.
I think you confused Nicotinamide (aka niacinamide) with other forms of niacin, nicotinic acid.
Niacinamide does not cause flushing, and is the one that does have similar effect as benzodiazepines at very high dose.
However it does not have the beneficial effect on cholesterol.
please don't ban supplements!
-d/r
Posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2009, at 17:26:25
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? (niacin) » Vincent_QC, posted by desolationrower on November 20, 2009, at 17:19:40
>Niacinamide does not cause flushing, and is the one that does have similar effect as benzodiazepines at very high dose.
Really? wow.
fb
Posted by Sigismund on November 20, 2009, at 18:58:43
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Sigismund, posted by Vincent _QC on November 15, 2009, at 22:09:50
>no "naturals" products exist to help to cope with the anxiety (panic attack or social phobia)....
No, and there aren't any others either.
Except the ones you can't get, or need USA type diagnoses (ADHD) for.
The whole thing sucks.
How are you doing, Vincent?
Posted by floatingbridge on November 20, 2009, at 21:28:22
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Vincent _QC, posted by Sigismund on November 20, 2009, at 18:58:43
Vincent,
I did recently start an add-on of strattera, and unbelievably, it has decreased my anxiety. It is an adhd med that is not controlled so strictly.
I'm sorry to be ignorant of your conditions. What symptoms are you dealing with?
two cents and kind regards,
fb
> >no "naturals" products exist to help to cope with the anxiety (panic attack or social phobia)....
>
> No, and there aren't any others either.
>
> Except the ones you can't get, or need USA type diagnoses (ADHD) for.
>
> The whole thing sucks.
>
> How are you doing, Vincent?
Posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 23:17:26
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » morganator, posted by Vincent_QC on November 20, 2009, at 5:54:05
Well my friend I'm sorry they don't work for you but they sure as hell work for many other people. Maybe you didn't take fishoil at the right dose, or the right kind, or long enough. Or, maybe it just won't ever have a noticeable effect on the way you feel. I had a very noticeable lift in mood and energy the first week I took fish oil. I was taking Zoloft at the time so fish oil was like an adjunct. This effect is no placebo bro, you just did not happen to benefit from it the way you wanted to. Remember, things like fish oil are not supposed to be a monotherapy, they are usually considered to work best with other treatments/medications.
You're right that D3 is the most commonly sold form. You're wrong that D2 is no longer used in milk, it is. I was probably wrong by saying that D2 is more commonly used in milk. I think this was the case in the past but milk producers have wised up and are using D3 more often than before.
If you go to a reputable store where you can buy reputable brands, you will get healthy natural vitamins/supplements. That is up to you to do your research.
Taking 2000 iu of D3 during the winter time is not a bad idea and it will not harm you, especially if you get your D levels checked at the doctor.
Posted by Vincent QC on November 21, 2009, at 6:37:31
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? » Vincent_QC, posted by morganator on November 20, 2009, at 23:17:26
> Well my friend I'm sorry they don't work for you but they sure as hell work for many other people. Maybe you didn't take fishoil at the right dose, or the right kind, or long enough. Or, maybe it just won't ever have a noticeable effect on the way you feel. I had a very noticeable lift in mood and energy the first week I took fish oil. I was taking Zoloft at the time so fish oil was like an adjunct. This effect is no placebo bro, you just did not happen to benefit from it the way you wanted to. Remember, things like fish oil are not supposed to be a monotherapy, they are usually considered to work best with other treatments/medications.
>
> You're right that D3 is the most commonly sold form. You're wrong that D2 is no longer used in milk, it is. I was probably wrong by saying that D2 is more commonly used in milk. I think this was the case in the past but milk producers have wised up and are using D3 more often than before.
>
> If you go to a reputable store where you can buy reputable brands, you will get healthy natural vitamins/supplements. That is up to you to do your research.
>
> Taking 2000 iu of D3 during the winter time is not a bad idea and it will not harm you, especially if you get your D levels checked at the doctor.Hummm first of all, I always take fish oil of premium quality.. the one with more EPA in it!!! Very expensive for nothing...
The brand name of the produt I taked for 1 year is Omega Joy... I don't know if they have them in the USA??? Look at this weblink...
http://www.abacohealth.com/index.php/prodid/GRE002
Secondly, I always take it with antidepressant med... as well as taking it in monotherapy...orow with Benzos meds.....when I was off of the AD... and I never see a difference... was taking 3 caps a day... increase the dosage at 6 caps a day... and they never do something on me... nothing noticeable...
For the D2... maybe they add it into milk... but what I read is that the milk industry use now D3 also... in the Canada of course... maybe not in the USA...
And for your information, I take a special RX only D3 vitamin supply of 50 000 units /day!!!
I also have to take 30 000 units of Vitamin A, 1500 mg of Calcium, 2 xtra strong Centrum, 1200mg of Iron and sometimes I add Vitamin B complex on the top of it, even if it's not effective, don't see a difference... and potassium supplements when I have legs cramps at night time...
I use all of them because of my gastric by-pass, not the same kind of gastric by-pass they made in the State... mine is not restrictive, I can eat what I want, but I pay the price for it! IF I eat fast food or thing who are fat... I have to go to the bathroom 5-6 times a day and orange oil, who smell bad, very bad.... will be floating on the top of the water!!!
That's also mean that I not absorb all of the amount of fat solube vitamins that I take... that's why they RX higher dosage of the Vit D3 and Vit A especially...
The Gastric by-pass I had in 2001 work with the bad absorbtion, mean that they remove 2/3 of the stomach, who is now returning to a normal state afters 8 years, since I can eat a lot of food at the same time without any pain of MAJOR problems... and they only leave 1,5 meter of intestine... they cut the rest of the intestine...
This Surgery have a BAD effect for meds absorbtion... Since all the new AD's are now in CR or XR version, I Can't take them... and if I take them, they don't work properly... I try the Effexor-XR or the Cymbalta and Pristiq, both are long acting...
With a small intestinal transit, they don't work well on me... And the SSRI'S in regular formulation make me FAT !!! Even with the gastric by-pass, I gain weight faster than light!!!
Ho... I have social phobia with GAD, panic attacks with agoraphobia and depression (caused by the Benzo meds I take each day), lack of motivation, no energy... that's like this since 2007...
I try severals meds since then... try some TCA's... Nardil and Parnate... all the SSRI's or the SRNI's... Topomax, Sabril, beta blockers, Gabapentin, Lyrica... and a lot more...I think I try everything...little exception to the Lithium...
I'm now trying to tapering the Rivotril (8mg/day, sometimes 10mg /day)... and just switch to the Valium... but this time, I can't only go on the Valium and forget the Rivotril completly... because since last spring, i'm stuck with a panic attacks problem who is really strong... I had that problem in the past, and I had panic attack sometimes, especially when I was in a sociable situation or walking alone in the street or in public transport or when I was doing oral exposure at the University... had to quit school in 2007 and since then I don't work... and I do nothing... I do severals therapy, exposure ones, change often of PDoc... had therapy for depression... had group therapy also... nothing work on me... and all the PDoc tend to told me that I'm treatment resistant!!! Anyways...
Posted by Vincent_QC on November 21, 2009, at 7:25:52
In reply to Re: Vitamin d3 anyone? (niacin) » Vincent_QC, posted by desolationrower on November 20, 2009, at 17:19:40
> Hi vincent. hope you're well.
>
> I think you confused Nicotinamide (aka niacinamide) with other forms of niacin, nicotinic acid.
>
> Niacinamide does not cause flushing, and is the one that does have similar effect as benzodiazepines at very high dose.
>
> However it does not have the beneficial effect on cholesterol.
>
> please don't ban supplements!
>
> -d/rI ban not usefull supplements because they don't work on me, that's it!!!
I try both of them... Nicotinamide caused a lot of flushing... even at low dosage... and the brand where it's write in big letter than they don't cause flushing , who are made with Niacinamide... both of them give to me the same side-effects... and they don't help at all...
Nothing can replace the meds who really works on the GABA... I mean benzo meds... no natural products will replace them...
Sadly, Benzo meds are addictive and in a long term view, they decrease the mental shape... making peoples acting and looking like they are 90 years old!!!
I know what i'm talking about... i'm stuck with a high addiction problem of Rivotril right now...
Was stable on 20mg of Valium for 1 years... see a new PDoc who RX the Zoloft to me... had a realy strange reaction on it... they claim it was good for social phobia, who WAS my primary problem at the time... but I was not able to get out of the house... so I ask to change the Valium and try severals benzo meds... to ending at the hospital for addiction to high dose of Xanax... 12mg/day... took 2 month to be free of it... had a lot of withdraws effects... Was put on the Lexapro... was so sedating, add wellbutrin on the top of it... and Ritalin... do nothing to help with the lack of energy and motivation... continue to gain weight... stop everything cold turkey... return on my regular 20mg of Valium ... and see a new PDoc...
That new PDoc put me on the Parnate, since I had already try the Nardil without any improve... just BAD hypotension...and when I write TRY , I mean a proper trial of 4 months on it at 90mg day... Anyways, he put me on the Parnate, begin at 10mg, increase at 20mg... ending at 40mg... Had hypertensive crisis without food interraction... ending severals times at the emergency ... had on me always the Nefipidine pil, just in case I had hypertensive crisis... but was not usefull when I had those crisis...
So I stop the Parnate... Pdoc put me on clomipramine... who was so bad... I was not able to take more than 50mg of it... stop it...
And BANG... I begin to have a returning in force of the panic attack problem I had in the past!!! Don't know what happen in my brain... but I was doing , and still do , panic attacks for nothing... they are trigger sometimes by my pulse rate who is high... sometimes they happen when I just watch TV or just when i'm lying in the bed...
Pdoc put me on the Imipramine ... change my Valium for the Rivotril again... was put on 4 mg day... call the PDoc the week after and increase at 8mg day... do nothing to help me...just put me again in the addiction circle...
On the Imipramine, I had the same kind of bad reactions than the Clomipramine...
The PDoc change his mind and decide to put me again on the Topomax... even if I told him that it does nothing in the past for me... Was put after on the Sabril (only avaible in the Canada), Lyrica again, even if it was not helping me in the past, selective beta blockers... Pristiq...
Anyway... I ending on the Paxil... who is working really good for panic attack on me, but who is making me fat... I gain 30 pounds in the summer... I stop the Paxil... since all my problems come from my weight and the fact that I had morbid obesity in the past, before the gastric by-pass, and now I have extra skin everywhere on my body and I just find me very gross and not attractive at all...
Was put on the Cymbalta... was not able to tolerate it for more than 3 days... too much NE effect on me...
Now, I have a RX of Luvox, 50mg day, that I fill out at the drugstore... but I don't start it already...
I ask also the PDoc to put me again on the Valium... since 8mg of Rivotril = 160mg of Valium, the PDoc didn't wanted to RX such a high dose for me... he RX 80mg of Valium /day and say to interdose it with the Rivotril at first...
So i'm wating to be stable on the Valium before trying the Luvox... who is the only one SSRI I never try in the past...
For now... I succeed to taper fast the Rivotril... I'm taking 15 or 20mg of Valium in the morning...15-20 in the afternoon...Keep 1mg of Rivotril in the evening, because it's the only time I go out of the house and drive my car...and add 15-20mg of Valium in the evening also... and take 20mg of Valium at bedtime...
So for now, i'm taking 65mg to 80 mg of Valium, depending of my mood and my anxiety level... and 1 mg of Rivotril... will cut gradually the 1mg of Rivotril in the evening...and substitute it with another Valium dose...
If everything go well... in december I will be on 60-80mg of Valium only... When the Rivotril will be completly out of my system, I will be able to cut the Valium faster... since it have a long half-life...
My goal is to return to 20mg of it... and to find an AD , that will work on my panic attack problem, but in low dosage only... I don't want to gain weight again!!! My PDoc talk about the possibility to add Abilify on the top of the AD who will work... he also think that I only need a small amount of AD... not high dose... but i'm not sure about the abilify, since i read it can cause also weight gain!!!
One strange thing I notice... since this summer, I can't drink real coffee... i'm very sensible to caffeine... I was used to drink at least 4-5 cups of it a day...now I can't drink half of a cup without doing a panic attack...
Before, coffee was helping me to be more sociable and to have more energy... and never increased my anxiety level... Now, I only drink decaff coffee and I can feel the small amount of caffeine (10mg maybe) in the decaff coffee... I sweat from the hands and feets... Strange no???? it's like my brain enter into a state of high panic...
Coffee was the only source of energy I had for years... now I can't drink it... so you can imagine that I have no energy at all and no motivation also...
Anyways... that's the complete story... I think I needed to talk about it ... even if you don't ask for it! lol
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Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
dr-bob@uchicago.edu
Script revised: October 4, 2007
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
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