Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 914718

Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by SLS on August 29, 2009, at 16:39:30

I might be interested in trying magnetic therapy. Does anyone know which frequency is more effective: 10Hz or 20Hz?

Thanks.


- Scott

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS

Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2009, at 20:35:46

In reply to rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by SLS on August 29, 2009, at 16:39:30

Scott are there no articles on it? Seriously if you don't know who would? love Phillipa

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS

Posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2009, at 20:39:37

In reply to rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by SLS on August 29, 2009, at 16:39:30

Scott I'm sure you've seen this. Anyway. Phillipa

http://wireheading.com/rtms/frequency.html

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 0:52:50

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2009, at 20:39:37

> Scott I'm sure you've seen this. Anyway. Phillipa
>
> http://wireheading.com/rtms/frequency.html


Thanks.

I am still undecided as to which frequency has shown greater efficacy. rTMS is an interesting treatment. If you give high-frequency (10-20Hz) trains on the left side you get an antidepressant effect. However, if you give low-frequency (1Hz) trains, you make depression worse. When you go over to the right side, the relationship reverses. Low-frequency trains produce an antidepressant effect. I believe that high-frequency trains produce a worsening of depression, but I am not as sure about this. I think they might be looking at right-side high-frequency trains to work as a treatment for mania.


- Scott

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by morganator on August 30, 2009, at 2:52:49

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS, posted by Phillipa on August 29, 2009, at 20:35:46

I am interested in this as well.

From what I understand rTMS can have some potentially long term benefits. Is that your understanding as well Scott?

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? morganator

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 7:07:23

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by morganator on August 30, 2009, at 2:52:49

> I am interested in this as well.
>
> From what I understand rTMS can have some potentially long term benefits. Is that your understanding as well Scott?

There was a poster here who had success with rTMS treatment. She would need follow-up treatments every 3-6 months to maintain the response. I believe she was taking nefazodone at the time.

I'm hoping that rTMS treatments will enhance the therapeutic effects of the antidepressants I'm taking. It would be great if a single course of rTMS would train the brain to behave itself.

Course of rTMS:

5 treatments per week for 4 weeks.

$400 per treatment, $8000 Total

I don't think Medicare covers rTMS yet. Private insurance companies often use Medicare decisions as a precedent to determine coverage. That's how VNS became a covered procedure.


- Scott

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 11:19:55

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? morganator, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 7:07:23

I remember 10Hz (left prefrontal) working better. But then again, this was my home-made machiene.

Linkadge

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 11:21:16

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? morganator, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 7:07:23

Also, I found that rTMS was much less effective when I used it in conjunction with anticonvulsants. I actually got symptoms of serotonin syndrome when combined with lithium.

Linkadge

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by morganator on August 30, 2009, at 11:32:08

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? morganator, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 7:07:23

>I'm hoping that rTMS treatments will enhance the therapeutic effects of the antidepressants I'm taking. It would be great if a single course of rTMS would train the brain to behave itself.

I'm hoping it helps the brain recover in a way that continuing medication treatment will be more effective that it was. I have heard of it being used for recovery from brain injury or stroke, at least thats what I think I remember. If this is the case, you would think it may potentially have some long term permanent healing effect on the brain for depressives.

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by morganator on August 30, 2009, at 11:33:17

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 11:19:55

> I remember 10Hz (left prefrontal) working better. But then again, this was my home-made machiene.
>
> Linkadge

Huh??? Home machine????

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 11:47:05

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 11:19:55

> I remember 10Hz (left prefrontal) working better. But then again, this was my home-made machiene.

Yes, I remember those days.

Thanks. I might go with the 10Hz.


- Scott

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? linkadge

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 11:52:38

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 11:21:16

> Also, I found that rTMS was much less effective when I used it in conjunction with anticonvulsants.

> I actually got symptoms of serotonin syndrome when combined with lithium.

That is a very astute observation. With ECT induced currents, lithium is absorbed into the tissue more readily. I imagine such would be the same with rTMS induced currents.

Please refresh my memory. How does lithium work to enhance serotonergic neurotransmission?

By the way, how are you feeling today?

I am very encouraged that you have been able to continue with your trial of amitriptyline.


- Scott

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? morganator

Posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 11:54:15

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by morganator on August 30, 2009, at 11:33:17

> > I remember 10Hz (left prefrontal) working better. But then again, this was my home-made machiene.
> >
> > Linkadge
>
> Huh??? Home machine????


Yup.

:-)

He did it.


- Scott

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 13:14:30

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? linkadge, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 11:52:38

>Please refresh my memory. How does lithium work >to enhance serotonergic neurotransmission?

It interacts with the 5-ht1b presynaptic autoreceptors. It appears to functionally inhibit their acitivity thus reducing inhibition on serotonin release (in certain areas of the brain).

rTMS appears to desensitize the 5-ht1a and 5-ht1b serotonin autoreceptors. Perhaps the combination of downregulation and antagonism leads to greatly diminished autoreceptor function.

I just remember that whenever I took lithium within about a week of using the machiene I got major chills. The other possibility is that the rTMS somehow functionally sensitized the post synaptic 5-ht1a receptors in the hypothalamus leading to the chills side effect.


>By the way, how are you feeling today?

Pretty good

>I am very encouraged that you have been able to >continue with your trial of amitriptyline.

Yeah, I'm not really having any problems with it.


Linkadge

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 13:16:15

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by morganator on August 30, 2009, at 11:33:17

>Huh??? Home machine????

Don't ask :)

Linkadge

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS

Posted by floatingbridge on August 30, 2009, at 14:01:43

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by SLS on August 30, 2009, at 11:47:05

Scott--the best with this. I'm curious, too.

fb

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? linkadge

Posted by Phillipa on August 30, 2009, at 18:54:55

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 13:16:15

Link I remember when you invented your own machine. Phillipa

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?

Posted by Meltingpot on September 6, 2009, at 9:00:09

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by linkadge on August 30, 2009, at 13:16:15

Linkadge,

:-) I remember you making the machine as well. Why did you stop using it?

Denise

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS

Posted by TriedEveryDrug on November 14, 2009, at 21:21:48

In reply to rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression?, posted by SLS on August 29, 2009, at 16:39:30

> I might be interested in trying magnetic therapy. Does anyone know which frequency is more effective: 10Hz or 20Hz?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott

Here is the neurostar user manual. maybe there is something useful in there.

http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/DOCKETS/ac/07/briefing/2007-4273b1_15-NeuroStarUserManualRevision.pdf

Also, I leafed through an academic book Pascual-Leone) I have on tms, nothing in there.

 

Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? TriedEveryDrug

Posted by floatingbridge on November 14, 2009, at 21:29:36

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS, posted by TriedEveryDrug on November 14, 2009, at 21:21:48

I only see treatment for agitation and anxiety?

> > I might be interested in trying magnetic therapy. Does anyone know which frequency is more effective: 10Hz or 20Hz?
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Here is the neurostar user manual. maybe there is something useful in there.
>
> http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/DOCKETS/ac/07/briefing/2007-4273b1_15-NeuroStarUserManualRevision.pdf
>
> Also, I leafed through an academic book Pascual-Leone) I have on tms, nothing in there.

 

rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? - Thanks! (nm) TriedEveryDrug

Posted by SLS on November 15, 2009, at 2:55:45

In reply to Re: rTMS - Best Frequency for Depression? SLS, posted by TriedEveryDrug on November 14, 2009, at 21:21:48


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