Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 912947

Shown: posts 1 to 16 of 16. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Alternatives to medication?

Posted by john51 on August 19, 2009, at 9:22:45

I realize that this forum is about medication, but I am wondering if anyone has had any success without meds. I am talking about psychotherapy, meditation, hypnosis.....and "changing the way you think to change your life"

 

Re: Alternatives to medication?

Posted by SLS on August 19, 2009, at 11:05:40

In reply to Alternatives to medication?, posted by john51 on August 19, 2009, at 9:22:45

> I realize that this forum is about medication, but I am wondering if anyone has had any success without meds. I am talking about psychotherapy, meditation, hypnosis.....and "changing the way you think to change your life"

What condition are you looking to treat?


- Scott

 

Re: Alternatives to medication?

Posted by john51 on August 19, 2009, at 14:22:22

In reply to Re: Alternatives to medication?, posted by SLS on August 19, 2009, at 11:05:40

> > I realize that this forum is about medication, but I am wondering if anyone has had any success without meds. I am talking about psychotherapy, meditation, hypnosis.....and "changing the way you think to change your life"
>
> What condition are you looking to treat?
>
>
> - Scott

Depression, anxiety and avoidant personality disorder

 

Re: Alternatives to medication?

Posted by SLS on August 19, 2009, at 14:48:44

In reply to Re: Alternatives to medication?, posted by john51 on August 19, 2009, at 14:22:22

> > > I realize that this forum is about medication, but I am wondering if anyone has had any success without meds. I am talking about psychotherapy, meditation, hypnosis.....and "changing the way you think to change your life"

> > What condition are you looking to treat?

> Depression, anxiety and avoidant personality disorder

I think you might want to investigate CBT. I found it very helpful, even though it did nothing for my bipolar depression. It helped with anxiety and social anxiety. I find that the depression itself causes me to avoid people unless I employ CBT. It is very hard, as I feel very inhibited around people when I am feeling at my worst. For me, these things seem to disappear when my bipolar condition improves.

Have you asked your questions on the Psychology board or Alternative board? You will get a lot more feedback there.

Good luck.


- Scott

 

Re: Alternatives to medication?

Posted by john51 on August 19, 2009, at 15:17:37

In reply to Re: Alternatives to medication?, posted by SLS on August 19, 2009, at 14:48:44

> > > > I realize that this forum is about medication, but I am wondering if anyone has had any success without meds. I am talking about psychotherapy, meditation, hypnosis.....and "changing the way you think to change your life"
>
> > > What condition are you looking to treat?
>
> > Depression, anxiety and avoidant personality disorder
>
> I think you might want to investigate CBT. I found it very helpful, even though it did nothing for my bipolar depression. It helped with anxiety and social anxiety. I find that the depression itself causes me to avoid people unless I employ CBT. It is very hard, as I feel very inhibited around people when I am feeling at my worst. For me, these things seem to disappear when my bipolar condition improves.
>
> Have you asked your questions on the Psychology board or Alternative board? You will get a lot more feedback there.
>
> Good luck.
>
>
> - Scott

Hey, thanks a lot Scott!! I will check those other boards!

John

 

Re: Alternatives to medication?

Posted by bleauberry on August 19, 2009, at 18:01:57

In reply to Alternatives to medication?, posted by john51 on August 19, 2009, at 9:22:45

> I realize that this forum is about medication, but I am wondering if anyone has had any success without meds. I am talking about psychotherapy, meditation, hypnosis.....and "changing the way you think to change your life"

Alternatives to medication involve detective work for the cause of the depression.

If it is low serotonin, a small dose of 5htp will have you feeling better in 15 minutes. If it doesn't, you don't have low serotonin.

If it is low dopamine, a small dose of tyrosine will have you feeling better. If it doesn't, dopamine isn't going to help.

If a tiny dose of Yohimbe has you feeling good, you have a norepinephrine problem.

If a researched brand of St Johns Wort such as Kira or Perika don't help, then try at least 2 other cheap brands such as WalMart Spring Valley. People do amazingly well on one and not the other, similar to ADs. Dosing times make a difference too. Brands are very different in therapeutic effect. Many people try SJW without good result and abandon it, not realizing they should have switched brands a couple times before resorting the psych merrigoround.

Rhodiola can work wonders. It has to be one of the world's two real therapeutic brands. The Swedish one is not available to us, but the Mind Body Spirit brand is and works well for most people who try it.

If regular daily doses of Oil or Oregano, Grapefruit Seed Extract, Olive Leaf, Caprylic Acid, or very high doses of garlic give you symptoms of the flu within a couple days to a week...you have yeast overgrowth hidden somewhere or a malignant bacterial situation (the flu-like feeling is a Herxheimer reaction...the flooding of toxins from dying microbial invaders)

If regular doses of Dr Clarkia (Black Walnut/Wormwood/Cloves) gives you a Herx, you have parasites and/or yeast and/or bacteria such Babesia or Bartonella (all common co-infections of Lyme)

If regular doses of Samento, Cats Claw, or Cumanda give you a Herx, you have a malignant bacterial infection with Lyme as one of the suspects.

Of all the infectious agents that spill neurotoxins in our brains poisoning our receptors (more serotonin aint gonna help that), Lyme is the most popular. But...the CDC estimates that for every 1 case diagnosed, there are 9 others walking around (or bedridden with a flawed diagnosis) who have not yet been diagnosed. So you can imagine how underdiagnosed all the other neurotoxic infectors are. Highest on the suspect list is Candida. Our diets, sugars, starches, stresses, pollutions, and illnesses give those things an absolute heavan to thrive and party.

If any of the above have you feeling better but no Herx, you have either an infection of some kind that is being subdued by the herbs and/or an unknown source of brain inflammation being eased by the herbs.

If you can work with a naturopath or alternative MD or integrative MD, ask for a provoked urine test of heavy metals. You'll collect urine before, then take a single large dose of DMSA, then collect urine for the next 6 hours or 24 hours. A lab will compare the amount of mercury/lead/arensic/cadmium and others in your normal urine compared to the amount of hidden metals DMSA pulled out of your tissues. Most people, especially with psychiatric issues, are probably a lot more toxic than they think they are. Drinking water, lead solder joints, fish, air migration from industrial countries, polluted rain, insecticides on produce, insecticides cows eat in the fields, silver fillings...it's all around us. Some people have genetics that excrete very well. Others accumulate. The ones most likely to accumulate are the ill because their systems are already compromised.

A 24 hour 4 sample saliva test of cortisol can paint a good picture, but what I have discovered is that while cortisol controls all of our neurotransmitters, if it is out of whack, low, whatever, it is because of one of the above reasons.

And of course thyroid free T3, free T4, and thyroid antibodies.

I am a long way from remission. I may still seek a retrial of SJW or Rhodiola or Tumeric. But in all honesty, I am better off meds than at any time during the 15 years of psych med augmentation merrigorounds or ECT.

People say, "oh, that's too expensive, oh, that's too hard, oh, that takes too much time, oh, my doctor doesn't know about that", so they take the easy way out and schedule a psych visit, get a prescription, and spin the merrigoround one more time. Tens years later, it turns out not to be the easy way out, but instead a very hard road, they are no better, maybe worse, and have spent thousands of dollars. Too expensive? Too hard? Geez.

Your original question...
Hypnosis...never tried it. I don't trust turning my spirit over to someone else while I am not aware.
Meditation...I've heard it is helpful for anxiety and insomnia if one knows how to do it right.
Psychotherapy...helpful to cope with the difficulties, helpful to grasp reality that we may never be what we used to be. Helps to learn how to live here and now instead of grasping for history.
Accupuncture...never tried it, but there is decent evidence it can actually help...somehow stimulates opioids and immune system and hormones, all impacting the brain in a positive way.

Of course, none of those things are going to convince infectious organisms, mercury, or lead to pack up their bags and leave.

For anything to work, it needs a pristine menu of food choices. Heavy of raw/slightly cooked veggies, fruits, proteins, and very low in sugars and starches. Low to modest caffeine. Lots and lots of purified water, accompanied with generous amounts of iodoized sea salt on your food.

Modern medicine is but a speck of sand in the course of history. It is in infancy. A few decades at best. Mysteries and flaws are the norm. We do the best we can. Modern medicine has a fair share of miracles as well as failures. You asked if life is possible without meds, and I say yes.

 

Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? bleauberry

Posted by sowhysosad on August 19, 2009, at 19:39:55

In reply to Re: Alternatives to medication?, posted by bleauberry on August 19, 2009, at 18:01:57

> If it is low serotonin, a small dose of 5htp will have you feeling better in 15 minutes. If it doesn't, you don't have low serotonin.

Really? Is 5-HTP always that fast-acting and the change in mood that dramatic? I'm convinced serotonin is part of my problem, but 5-HTP had only a very subtle effect on me. Perhaps the dosing, absorption or brand weren't quite right.

Can anyone testify to experiencing such a rapid improvement on 5-HTP?

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?

Posted by chumbawumba on August 20, 2009, at 13:18:48

In reply to Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? bleauberry, posted by sowhysosad on August 19, 2009, at 19:39:55

I experienced an improvement on 5-HTP but it took months. It worked very well for a while but then slowly stopped working. Kind of like a slow poop out.

 

Re: Alternatives to medication?

Posted by JohnJ777 on August 20, 2009, at 13:49:05

In reply to Re: Alternatives to medication?, posted by bleauberry on August 19, 2009, at 18:01:57


> Rhodiola can work wonders. It has to be one of the world's two real therapeutic brands. The Swedish one is not available to us, but the Mind Body Spirit brand is and works well for most people who try it.

Just a note to second this motion . . . Thanks Bleauberry. I actually like the Mind Body & Spirit better than the old Swedish stuff I used to buy. This has an amazing effect -- you are right, totally therapeutic. I still don't understand why 150 mg. makes me feel good but those big 500 mg capsules from Jarrow don't do anything at all. Anyway, nice to know someone I respect thinks I am doing the right thing!

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? sowhysosad

Posted by bleauberry on August 20, 2009, at 17:26:11

In reply to Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? bleauberry, posted by sowhysosad on August 19, 2009, at 19:39:55

I think readers of my comments might have missed the point.

That is, if someone truly has a deficiency of serotonin, 5htp will feel good, as it makes serotonin very quickly.

If someone does not have low serotonin, that does not mean that 5htp won't help them. It means that if it does help them, it does so through downstream nervous system adaptations to the increased levels of serotonin from 5htp. Similar to the lag time of meds. Serotonin wasn't the problem, but somehow increasing it caused a readjustment somewhere else where the problem was.

It's all theory. The brain is more complicated than man will figure out in the next 100 years. I have presented basic tests to pinpoint areas to focus on. There is already too much guess work in psychiatry. There are simple things we can do to find out where to direct our attention.

> > If it is low serotonin, a small dose of 5htp will have you feeling better in 15 minutes. If it doesn't, you don't have low serotonin.
>
> Really? Is 5-HTP always that fast-acting and the change in mood that dramatic? I'm convinced serotonin is part of my problem, but 5-HTP had only a very subtle effect on me. Perhaps the dosing, absorption or brand weren't quite right.
>
> Can anyone testify to experiencing such a rapid improvement on 5-HTP?

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?

Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2009, at 20:09:29

In reply to Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? sowhysosad, posted by bleauberry on August 20, 2009, at 17:26:11

I get rapid and dramatic improvement on 5-htp. I am wondering if I might have a faulty tryptophan hydroxylase gene.

I am concerned about taking it on account of increasing peripherial serotonin levels.

Linkadge

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? linkadge

Posted by bleauberry on August 21, 2009, at 14:59:47

In reply to Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2009, at 20:09:29

> I get rapid and dramatic improvement on 5-htp. I am wondering if I might have a faulty tryptophan hydroxylase gene.
>
> I am concerned about taking it on account of increasing peripherial serotonin levels.
>
> Linkadge

Link, I feel the doses on bottles off 5htp, and the doses hyped on the net, are extreme. I am not alone in that thinking. 50mg 5htp is a lot! But is considered a normal dose as if it was nothing.

What I am getting at is that you may find a mere 10mg to 25mg might be of benefit to you. At those doses, there is little danger of anything. I believe that dangers are in the dose ranges of 100mg-300mg. I friek out when I see people do that.

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?

Posted by markwell on August 21, 2009, at 18:10:56

In reply to Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? linkadge, posted by bleauberry on August 21, 2009, at 14:59:47

Is there a good book that is helpful, Bleauberry as to how to tackle anxiety and depression without meds? It's hard to know where to start on an alternative journey. Suggestions anyone?

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?

Posted by linkadge on August 21, 2009, at 18:22:32

In reply to Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP? linkadge, posted by bleauberry on August 21, 2009, at 14:59:47

>At those doses, there is little danger of >anything

Maybe maybe not. 5-htp is not really natural. Even 10mg is way more than you could ever get naturally from seeds. The body normally converts tryptophan to serotonin in the brain. 5-htp bypasses this. If it is enough to increases serotonin receptor singalling in the brain, it is enough to increases serotonin receptor singalling in the periphery.

Linkadge

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?

Posted by bleauberry on August 22, 2009, at 10:30:44

In reply to Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?, posted by markwell on August 21, 2009, at 18:10:56

> Is there a good book that is helpful, Bleauberry as to how to tackle anxiety and depression without meds? It's hard to know where to start on an alternative journey. Suggestions anyone?

I sometimes wonder why "alternative" treatments for depression are called alternative, when in fact it makes sense they should be first-line treatments. Psychiatric meds should be alternatives when everything else has fallen short. Somehow along the line we humans and the medical profession got it backwards.

Most of the psych meds and many other meds are derivatives or take-offs of "alternative" herbs. Aspirin from the bark of a tree, penicillin from a specific mold, several popular antibiotics isolating the quinine chemical found naturally in several herbs, St Johns Wort being a broad spectrum reuptake inhibitor, curcumin from the spice tumeric with feelable Parnate-like MAOI mechanisms, just for starters.

The difference with alternative is that it puts more focus on identifying and removing/reducing the cause of the symptoms, in addition to alleviating immediate symptoms.

There are many books. But you can learn a majority of what is in the books by studying google searches.

Key research words would include all of the following: Candida, candida diet, borrellia, babesia, bartonella, mycoplasma, 5htp, tyrosine, dl-phenylalanine, rhodiola rosea, st johnswort, wormwood, black walnut hulls, olive leaf, chlorella, grapefruit seed extract, berberine, mercury detox, amalgam illness, adrenal fatigue. Learn those topics and you will have more power than any doctor you will ever meet to address your own health in a targeted logical systematic manner.

If one were to do a search on each of those, then study a dozen or more various hits on each for at least 6 hours each and take notes, there is a wealth of information. The reason to read a wide variety is to gain the perspective in sorting out strong anecdotal evidence versus scientific evidence versus internet hype/selling. You might not be able to do that at first, but after many hours you begin to see the big picture, where things seem to unaminously agree and be validated, where other things don't.

You also gain the ability to see the whole picture. If depression is a result of something biological, you have a manageable and easily testable list of the most common things that cause it, how, why, and what to do to reverse it. So you can cheaply and easily test yourself for this or that.

Simple example: The Candida spit test.
Another: Full dose anti-bacterial herb to see if it induces a Herx reaction or not.
Take a DMSA urine provoked metals test to see how much mercury/lead/aluminum comes out of storage.
Simplest test of all: Look in the mouth for silver fillings.

Whether books or online studying, it takes time. Some would say too much time. To that I counter that if they see a psychiatrist once a month, at a mere 1 or 2 hours of studying per day they would have gathered all of the expertise they need to take charge of their situation within the time frame of 2 monthly psychiatrist visits. The one studying made huge forward progress. The one popping pills and watching the calendar for the next psych visit made zero forward progress. The person studying is very close to discovering what is really going on here. The one not has learned nothing and still has no clue where to turn. Two months of an hour a day completely totally wasted.

I believe it is a deadend road to study all about psych meds, or all about alternative depression supplements, or all about this or that. Almost always there is more than one problem going on, tied to each other, so we need to know how they all interconnect. The big picture. Something so simple as a topic of 5htp or Effexor or Abilify will not do that. For example, where there is Lyme, there is probably depression, and there is probably candida, and there is probably heavy metal accumulation, and probably a few co-infections, and adrenal fatigue is common. All of them need attention. To merely take a psych drug is but the tip of the iceberg and misses the entire target. While for someone the single supplement 5htp might be helpful, 3 or 4 targeted supplements could be curative, not only removing the symptoms, but removing the cause of them so as to never return.

Alernative, to me, should be mainstream firstline. That is, find the cause, use easy cheap fast testing to rule-in rule-out common suspects. Use gifts of the planet to heal the found problems. In a worst case scenario, resort to manmade drugs. The pharmaceuticals should be alternatives to true diagnosis and treatment, backwards from the way it is today.

The more books on the topics mentioned the better. But even without books, it is all on the net. Some of it scientific, some of it anecdotal, some of it garbage. Read it all.

 

Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?

Posted by bleauberry on August 22, 2009, at 10:33:28

In reply to Re: Rapid and dramatic improvement from 5-HTP?, posted by linkadge on August 21, 2009, at 18:22:32

> >At those doses, there is little danger of >anything
>
> Maybe maybe not. 5-htp is not really natural. Even 10mg is way more than you could ever get naturally from seeds. The body normally converts tryptophan to serotonin in the brain. 5-htp bypasses this. If it is enough to increases serotonin receptor singalling in the brain, it is enough to increases serotonin receptor singalling in the periphery.
>
> Linkadge

Well, you could be right Link. I say that because a mere 5mg 5htp causes me severe sexual side effects worse than an SSRI ever did. Maybe I needed to take the cofactors B6 and C with it for better brain metabolism, I dunno. Bottom line though, for me, even just 5mg 5htp made a lot of serotonin. I friek out when I see people taking more than 50mg a day.


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