Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 912537

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 32. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Nardil withdrawal

Posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

I posted this in the withdrawal section, however, I'm not sure if it is new and I always have posted here.
Sorry. Blame it on my cognitive dysfunction!


-------------------------------
Hello all!
Can anyone relate to these with w/drawal symptoms (or is it a recurrence of the original symptoms pre-Nardil?)

* Cognitive Impairment/Psychomotor retardation, including substantial difficulties with concentration and focus...

*An overall lack of motivation (not always with concurrent depressive symptoms), however, at times, short burts of intense motivation.

*obsessions/ruminations

*acute self-consciousness

A lot of you guys/gals know me here, and know I have been on Nardil for sometime now. Like 6 years at least....

Around 6 months ago I started a steady and slow taper off Nardil.

I have, for the greater part, been on high doses- right up at 90mg.

I have now been on 30mg for around 3 months, and things are rough going.
Being on 30mg feels like being on nothing, i.e. I don't believe 30mg is a therapeutic dose for me.

I am not sure whether I am now experiencing my baseline symptoms, or, they are genuine s/effects. I am not sure whether to struggle on and give my brain some time to get used to it without Nardil.

Can anyone give me their thoughts here...?

There is a Nardil w/drawal thread above which I am even having problings concentrating on and reading!

God Bless You All,
Ace

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:47:14

In reply to Nardil withdrawal, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

Trust your intellect.
Trust your instincts.

What do they tell you?


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal

Posted by polarbear206 on August 17, 2009, at 8:57:09

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:47:14

> Trust your intellect.
> Trust your instincts.
>
> What do they tell you?
>
>
> - Scott

Ace, I'm with Scott on this one.

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by Maxime on August 17, 2009, at 9:32:55

In reply to Nardil withdrawal, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

I think you know that you need to be on Nardil and at your therapeutic dose. Coming off the med really doesn't seem like an option for you. I hope you make the right choice for you.

Take care.

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal

Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2009, at 10:45:37

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by Maxime on August 17, 2009, at 9:32:55

Hi Ace I remember you saying you were planning at some point to withdraw from Nardil. But you've accomplished so much on this med is it in your best interests to stop? Concerned about you Ace. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » SLS

Posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 20:32:49

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by SLS on August 17, 2009, at 6:47:14

> Trust your intellect.
> Trust your instincts.
>
> What do they tell you?

I make the final decisions, and I am counseled by my GP of 10 yrs.
He did say he thought it would pose a problem.
I guess a part of me just does not want to be on medication for a life time (for a myriad of reasons). Can you empathise with this?

It's hard at the moment as I can't distinguish between the possible recurrence of symptoms and w/drawal effects.

All the best mate,
Ace

> - Scott

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » Maxime

Posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 20:37:33

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by Maxime on August 17, 2009, at 9:32:55

> I think you know that you need to be on Nardil and at your therapeutic dose. Coming off the med really doesn't seem like an option for you. I hope you make the right choice for you.
>
> Take care.

Thanks for response:)
What you say at the end- coming off Narsdil doesn't seem like an option- what makes you say this?

I am particularly struggling with this possibility now!

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa

Posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 20:43:56

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal, posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2009, at 10:45:37

> Hi Ace I remember you saying you were planning at some point to withdraw from Nardil. But you've accomplished so much on this med is it in your best interests to stop? Concerned about you Ace. Love Phillipa

Hey Phillipa:)
Your right. I guess that I just don't want to be dependent on this medication for life....to be honest I still am struggling with the idea of me needing these meds....
What do you think?
I do very much appreciate your concern.
Ace:)

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2009, at 22:05:52

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 20:43:56

Ace I feel if your're still persuing the same career path in your best interests to stay on Nardil. Remember the mail you sent me when you didn't take the Naril? I have a copy if you would like to read it. Just babble and we can take it from there. My love always Phillipa

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal

Posted by Justherself54 on August 17, 2009, at 23:32:13

In reply to Nardil withdrawal, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

I had a long post written, but I lost it. Anyway..I feel for you Ace. I had a horrible, miserable time coming off Nardil, and I was only at 45 mg. I had constant severe brain zaps unlike any other I've experienced, and I've experienced a lot of them. I got off it as quickly as I could as I felt dreadful every day for over 4 weeks.

I was uncomfortable going out or being around people as I felt like either my eyes were going to pop out of my head or complete drivel was going to shoot out of my mouth. For me, Nardil ranks number one for being the hardest to withdraw from. I was going to list all the AD's I've withdrawn from but it's too big a task for me right now!

Maybe instead of moving slowly with the titration..speed it up as fast as you and your doc is comfortable with and get it out of your system. Then, give it some time and you'll know if you're able to function med free. When I was younger I had many good years in between depressions and being on AD's. As I got older, the gap narrowed.

Keep us posted on how you're doing. Warm fuzzies heading your way.

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa

Posted by ace on August 18, 2009, at 0:34:38

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2009, at 22:05:52

> Ace I feel if your're still persuing the same career path in your best interests to stay on Nardil. Remember the mail you sent me when you didn't take the Naril?

Which one was this?!
I know what you mean, it's just that I do feel that, to be in a certain position, there is something ethically dubious about taking these drugs. In short, I feel 'wrong' taking any meds, in spite of the vast amount I have taken.
This sentiment is fueled by the inherent innacuracy and ambiguity in the whole psychiatric diagnostic system.

But things are rough now, I really am feeling to push it back up to 60mg then 90mg.

I have a copy if you would like to read it. Just babble and we can take it from there.

Sorry to ask again, what is 'babble'? Forgot:)

My love always Phillipa

Once again I really appreciate your sentiments....I hope all is great for you!
Ace............

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » Justherself54

Posted by ace on August 18, 2009, at 0:43:46

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal, posted by Justherself54 on August 17, 2009, at 23:32:13

> I had a long post written, but I lost it. Anyway..I feel for you Ace. I had a horrible, miserable time coming off Nardil, and I was only at 45 mg. I had constant severe brain zaps unlike any other I've experienced, and I've experienced a lot of them. I got off it as quickly as I could as I felt dreadful every day for over 4 weeks.

Hey, thanks so much for your post.
Did you go on another med? If not did you return to your baseline symptomatology?


>
> I was uncomfortable going out or being around people as I felt like either my eyes were going to pop out of my head or complete drivel was going to shoot out of my mouth.

I can empathise!
Did you feel that excessive nervousness around other people that totaly thwarts spontaneous reaction?
I feel very embarresed easily too, especially when ruminating on some past behaviours...
Do you experience this?
Were there any in particular unpleasent experiences/situations?


For me, Nardil ranks number one for being the hardest to withdraw from. I was going to list all the AD's I've withdrawn from but it's too big a task for me right now!
>
> Maybe instead of moving slowly with the titration..speed it up as fast as you and your doc is comfortable with and get it out of your system. Then, give it some time and you'll know if you're able to function med free. When I was younger I had many good years in between depressions and being on AD's. As I got older, the gap narrowed.

How long have you been on meds vs not being on them?
I do know what you mean here, I fast taper may be beneficial, but, at this time, I am leaning towards, going back up to 60mg-90mg....
>
> Keep us posted on how you're doing. Warm fuzzies heading your way.

Thank you so much again, It is much appreciated!
I wish you the very best,

Peace,
Ace

 

Re: why stop it? » ace

Posted by hyperfocus on August 18, 2009, at 10:31:01

In reply to Nardil withdrawal, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

ace if Nardil had you in remission why stop it? You are risking a lot by stopping it. Remember there a lot of people who stopped or switched meds then couldn't capture the original response. If I were you I'd go back to your original dose and stay there.

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2009, at 19:47:54

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by ace on August 18, 2009, at 0:34:38

Ace for someone as both talented and exceptionally intelligent babblemail is simple. Go to registration and click the button for babble mail on and I can contact you. Or see my name in color? Click on my name a screen appears you type me a private e-mail but remember to go to the bottom and hit send. Don't know if your addy is the same? Love Phillipa and agree with hyperfocus I remember those e-mails from you that time. Love again to my favorite Ace!!!!

 

Ace The Nardil Champion » ace

Posted by Ron Hill on August 19, 2009, at 13:48:53

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by ace on August 18, 2009, at 0:34:38

> I know what you mean, it's just that I do feel that, to be in a certain position, there is something ethically dubious about taking these drugs. In short, I feel 'wrong' taking any meds, in spite of the vast amount I have taken.

Hi Ace,

Hypothetically, let's suppose you have epilepsy and that you experience severe convulsions without medication. If this were true, would you feel ethically dubious or wrong in taking anti-epileptic medication?

In my humble opinion, the same holds true with regard to your Nardil. If the medication benefits you, its not wrong or ethically dubious to take it. And dont forget; you are Ace the Nardil Champion!

As you can see in my med list below, I still take Nardil and I do not feel bad about it at all. I added Nardil to my med comb almost three years ago and its the best medication I have found to treat my bipolar depression.

I care about you, mate. Be well.

-- Ron

dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD

600 mg/day Trileptal
200 mg/day Lamictal
500 mg/day Keppra
90 mg/day Nardil

 

Re: why stop it? » hyperfocus

Posted by ace on August 19, 2009, at 21:15:03

In reply to Re: why stop it? » ace, posted by hyperfocus on August 18, 2009, at 10:31:01

> ace if Nardil had you in remission why stop it?

I see your point. At this stage in my life, and due to so many factors, I just would rather be med free. I have a hard time accepting that it seems that i do indeed need these medications in order to sustain a higher level of functioning.

You are risking a lot by stopping it. Remember there a lot of people who stopped or switched meds then couldn't capture the original response. If I were you I'd go back to your original dose and stay there.

Well, I have gone back up to 60mg....I think you can expect a "Nardil Champ" post on the way, if you get my drift!

Thanks so very much again:)
Ace

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa

Posted by ace on August 19, 2009, at 21:18:01

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2009, at 19:47:54

> Ace for someone as both talented and exceptionally intelligent

What's going on here?! Are you trying to make me blush:)

babblemail is simple. Go to registration and click the button for babble mail on and I can contact you. Or see my name in color? Click on my name a screen appears you type me a private e-mail but remember to go to the bottom and hit send. Don't know if your addy is the same? Love Phillipa and agree with hyperfocus I remember those e-mails from you that time. Love again to my favorite Ace!!!!

I will get on the babble mail.....Please don't think I am ever rude...Just sometimes so busy and other times stuck in my own head!

Speak very soon!
Ace

 

Re: Ace The Nardil Champion » Ron Hill

Posted by ace on August 19, 2009, at 21:34:49

In reply to Ace The Nardil Champion » ace, posted by Ron Hill on August 19, 2009, at 13:48:53

> > I know what you mean, it's just that I do feel that, to be in a certain position, there is something ethically dubious about taking these drugs. In short, I feel 'wrong' taking any meds, in spite of the vast amount I have taken.
>
> Hi Ace,
>
> Hypothetically, let's suppose you have epilepsy and that you experience severe convulsions without medication. If this were true, would you feel ethically dubious or wrong in taking anti-epileptic medication?

Hey Ron, I do see what you mean for sure. It's just that psychiatry, as I am sure you know, has so many shades of grey in it....so much scope for criticism. Speculation will be always rife until we find that elusive external validation of these disorders. This leaves certain question marks in my mind, and I tend to ruminate on them!

> In my humble opinion, the same holds true with regard to your Nardil. If the medication benefits you, its not wrong or ethically dubious to take it. And dont forget; you are Ace the Nardil Champion!

haha! Cheers mate!

> As you can see in my med list below, I still take Nardil and I do not feel bad about it at all. I added Nardil to my med comb almost three years ago and its the best medication I have found to treat my bipolar depression.

I am so glad to here this. I really hope things are all well for you.


>
> I care about you, mate. Be well.

Thanks Ron- I appreciate that sentiment very much, it uplifts my spirit.

All such brave people on here, struggling against these undefinable problems/illnesses, and never giving in. It is admirable.

Peace,
Ace:)


> -- Ron
>
> dx: Bipolar II and mild OCPD
>
> 600 mg/day Trileptal
> 200 mg/day Lamictal
> 500 mg/day Keppra
> 90 mg/day Nardil
>

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by Phillipa on August 19, 2009, at 21:56:30

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » Phillipa, posted by ace on August 19, 2009, at 21:18:01

Ace blush, wear your crown, and stay on the nardil Love as always Phillipa

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by SLS on August 20, 2009, at 4:53:14

In reply to Nardil withdrawal, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

On the one hand, you may have rebound depression. It should get better with time, though, not worse.

On the other hand, you may end up with antidepressant-induced antidepressant-refractoriness. This is the risk you take the longer you allow your brain to regregulate itself after the cessation of drug exposure i.e. the drug never works again as well as it had prior to its discontinuation.


- Scott

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace

Posted by SLS on August 20, 2009, at 5:18:52

In reply to Nardil withdrawal, posted by ace on August 17, 2009, at 2:52:56

I'm glad to see in your recent posts that you have managed to get through a period of denial or perhaps even resentment against drugs, and have gone on to accept your need for continued treatment.

It sucks to know that your life is tethered to a foreign substance, without which you cannot function happily. I went through that period in my treatment history. However, like you, I came to the logical conclusion that my alternatives were few, but that the payoff to treatment was potentially huge.

Remember, there is a very real possibility that something like gene-therapy will obviate the need for other somatic treatments during your lifetime. So, Nardil might represent a bridge until such time that better treatments come along.


- Scott

 

Re: Ace The Nardil Champion » ace

Posted by Ron Hill on August 21, 2009, at 5:03:39

In reply to Re: Ace The Nardil Champion » Ron Hill, posted by ace on August 19, 2009, at 21:34:49

Ace,

Thanks for your reply.

Just so you know, I think I understand at least part of the dilemma you are facing. Will the medical profession accept a p-doc who takes meds? And, what about the e-mail trail that has been left behind over the years?

Personally, I'd love to go to a p-doc who knows first hand what it feels like to take p-meds.

I'm on you team, Ace.

-- Ron

 

Re: Ace The Nardil Champion

Posted by SLS on August 21, 2009, at 6:09:06

In reply to Re: Ace The Nardil Champion » ace, posted by Ron Hill on August 21, 2009, at 5:03:39

Kay Redfield Jamison is an example of a doctor with a mental illness practicing medicine. She has bipolar disorder and wrote a book about her experiences with the illness. She is a professor of psychiatry at Johns-Hopkins and is considered to be an expert in bipolar disorder. Hopefully, she does not represent a rare exception.


- Scott

 

Re: Ace The Nardil Champion » ace

Posted by clipper40 on August 22, 2009, at 17:22:33

In reply to Re: Ace The Nardil Champion » Ron Hill, posted by ace on August 19, 2009, at 21:34:49

I personally don't think you can be a great pdoc unless you have taken these meds and have dealt with this type of problem yourself. If you haven't, then on some level there's a piece of the pie that you just don't get - can't possibly get.
Your illness may allow you to be an incredible pdoc.

 

Re: Nardil withdrawal » SLS

Posted by FredPotter on August 23, 2009, at 20:51:35

In reply to Re: Nardil withdrawal » ace, posted by SLS on August 20, 2009, at 4:53:14

Scott do you think that would apply to changing from one MAOI to another? I had a washout of only 2 days after Nardil, before going on Parnate. I sometimes think Parnate has been wasting its time blocking MAO in a different position on the MAOI molecule, when it's already been blocked by Nardil. MAO is a great big 3-D protein after all, so the site of blocking is unlikely to be the same.

Someone told me that at 63 I probably have a lot of MAO in my brain stem. This person also said MAOIs prevent Alzheimer's and Parkinson's Disease.


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.