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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by G-man885858 on June 24, 2009, at 19:43:24
Hey,
I have been completely unable to use fish oil for about a year now. Everytime I take it I get nasty frontal headaches (behind the eyes), light sensitivity, and nausea.
This is very weird because back in 2005, I WAS able to use fish oil and it helped TREMENDOUSLY with Lexapro withdrawal!!
Does anyone else have an intolerance to fish oil? What can I do about it?
Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
Thanks so much!!
Posted by bleauberry on June 25, 2009, at 16:56:37
In reply to Serious Fish oil problems! Please help!, posted by G-man885858 on June 24, 2009, at 19:43:24
I have an intolerance of fish oil. It causes overall inflammation, showing up mostly as headache and rebirth of an old healed wrist tendonitis. It is usually anti-inflammatory and pro-mood. For me, just the opposite...pro-inflammatory and depressing.
I think when it comes to all herbs, meds, or supplements, we kind of have to ignore clinical trials, ignore internet claims, ignore what consensus says should happen. We instead need to listen very closely to what our body is telling us. If your body is saying fish oil used to be good but now is not, then don't argue with it. Don't take it.
I took fish oil years ago and it was neutral. No good, no bad. I took it because it was supposedly healthy.
The body and life don't stay the same...things age, things change. What we were some time in the past is not the same as now. Things in motion changed.
A year ago a doctor had me take an expensive fatty acid profile lab test. It showed dozens of fatty acids we have. What really stood out was that, even though I had stopped fish oil months earlier, both DHA and EPA were skyhigh almost off the charts. Wicked imbalance compared to the other oils. When we take oils, I think that is something we tend to forget...it is not how much of something, but rather, the balance in the bigger picture.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 26, 2009, at 21:47:56
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help!, posted by bleauberry on June 25, 2009, at 16:56:37
Sometimes quality matters. Carlson's and Nordic Naturals seem to be good brands. Also, a higher EPA to DHA ratio like 4 to 1 may be more therapeutic for some.
When you took fish oil to help get off lexapro di you keep taking it? Most take fish oil almost everyday. No reason to stop if it is working. It also should help as an adjunct to medication, not just to get off medication.If you tolerate it as most do, and it makes you feel better, fish oil should be one of those life long supplements for many reasons other than just mood/brain health.
That sucks you are having a bad reaction to it now and before it helped you. You may want to try a high quality pharmaceutical grade fish oil. You will spend more money, but it may be worth it.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 26, 2009, at 21:56:33
In reply to Serious Fish oil problems! Please help!, posted by G-man885858 on June 24, 2009, at 19:43:24
I would also suggest trying krill oil instead. Your definitely going to pay more for it but it is supposed to be good stuff.
You need your good omega 6 fatty acids as well. You can try borage oil, black current oil, or evening primose. It is a good balance to the fish oil
Just remembered something...evidently we should supplement with vitamin e when taking fish oil. I googled fish oil and vitamin e and found this:Fish oil and vitamin E go together
BELTSVILLE, MARYLAND. Fish oils are beneficial in the prevention of cancer and cardiovascular disease. They do, however, oxidize very easily and therefore add to the oxidant stress on the body. An experiment was recently carried out by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to see if an increased intake of vitamin E could counteract this detrimental effect of fish oils. Forty men aged 32 to 44 were involved. The men consumed a controlled diet for a total of 28 weeks. For the first 10 weeks they received placebo oil capsules (15 g/day), for the next 10 weeks they received fish oil capsules (15 g/day), and for the last 8 weeks they received the fish oil plus 200 mg of vitamin E (all-rac-alpha-tocopherol). The urinary excretion of peroxidation products (malondialdehyde) more than doubled when the fish oil capsules were introduced but then dropped by a factor of four when vitamin E was added. The vitamin E concentration in the red blood cells dropped very significantly when fish oil was ingested but more than recovered with the vitamin E supplement. It is concluded that the negative effects of fish oil consumption can be overcome by taking them together with vitamin E.
Nair, Padmanabhan P., et al. Dietary fish oil-induced changes in the distribution of alpha-tocopherol, retinol, and beta-carotene in plasma, red blood cells, and platelets: modulation by vitamin E. American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 58, July 1993, pp. 98-102Fish oil supplements increase requirements for Vitamin E
LONDON, ENGLAND. A recent experiment carried out at King's College in London showed that daily intake of fish oil supplement reduces the plasma concentration of vitamin E to below normal range. Nine healthy male subjects were given a daily fish oil supplement containing 2.1 g docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) and 0.8 g eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) for a six week period. The proportion of DHA and EPA in the blood increased during the trial while the concentration of very-low-density-lipoprotein-cholesterol and triacylglycerol decreased. Blood pressure fell slightly during treatment, but rose again once the fish oil supplementation was discontinued. Of particular interest was the finding that alpha-tocopherol (vitamin E) concentration in the blood fell from 20 micromol/l to about 10 micromol/l during the experiment. This raises the question whether fish oil supplementation increases the need for antioxidant supplementation.
Sanders, T.A.B. and Hinds, Allison. The influence of a fish oil high in docosahexaenoic acid on plasma lipoprotein and vitamin E concentrations and haemostatic function in healthy male volunteers. British Journal of Nutrition, Vol. 68, July 1992, pp. 163-73I'm guessing that even low doses are giving you problems. Maybe try 4 to 1 EPA to DHA of a high quality brand, add vitamin E to the mix, and start low. Who knows, may help may not. You may just not be able to tolerate it now for some reason. Do you get a reaction from eating salmon?
Posted by G-man885858 on June 27, 2009, at 16:21:06
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help!, posted by morganpmiller on June 26, 2009, at 21:47:56
> Sometimes quality matters. Carlson's and Nordic Naturals seem to be good brands. Also, a higher EPA to DHA ratio like 4 to 1 may be more therapeutic for some.
>
> When you took fish oil to help get off lexapro di you keep taking it? Most take fish oil almost everyday. No reason to stop if it is working. It also should help as an adjunct to medication, not just to get off medication.
>
> If you tolerate it as most do, and it makes you feel better, fish oil should be one of those life long supplements for many reasons other than just mood/brain health.
>
> That sucks you are having a bad reaction to it now and before it helped you. You may want to try a high quality pharmaceutical grade fish oil. You will spend more money, but it may be worth it.
Morgan,Who makes "pharmaceutical grade" fish oil and where can I get it to try?
Thanks!
Posted by morganpmiller on June 27, 2009, at 18:21:59
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » morganpmiller, posted by G-man885858 on June 27, 2009, at 16:21:06
AOR has a pharmaceutical grade fish oil with only EPA if you want to give that a shot. Or try one of their high EPA with some DHA products if they have one.
Then there is Nordic Naturals and Carlson's. I just bought the Nordica Naturals with about a 4 to 1 EPA to DHA. I think I like it so far. I'm not particularly sensitive to fish oil, other than having noticed feeling better over the years.
There are several pharmaceutical grade fish oils out there. The 3 above are well known companies that should have very high quality products.
I would consider keeping your fish oil in the refrigerator. Somethings can build up in the fish oil that can make you feel bad. So soring in a dark cool place would be best.
Posted by morganpmiller on June 28, 2009, at 1:29:56
In reply to Serious Fish oil problems! Please help!, posted by G-man885858 on June 24, 2009, at 19:43:24
You might also want to check this out. It may just be the purest fish oil product around. But, you need a prescription for it. Crazy
Posted by yxibow on June 28, 2009, at 15:57:07
In reply to Serious Fish oil problems! Please help!, posted by G-man885858 on June 24, 2009, at 19:43:24
> Hey,
>
> I have been completely unable to use fish oil for about a year now. Everytime I take it I get nasty frontal headaches (behind the eyes), light sensitivity, and nausea.
>
> This is very weird because back in 2005, I WAS able to use fish oil and it helped TREMENDOUSLY with Lexapro withdrawal!!
>
> Does anyone else have an intolerance to fish oil? What can I do about it?
>
> Any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated!!!
>
> Thanks so much!!
Do you have any intolerance to certain seafood or shellfish ?There are also vegetable Omega sources, such as Perilla Oil (from the Japanese shiso plant), Flax, Borage, and a handful of other things including walnuts.
As a vegetarian, I personally take Perilla as it has a fairly high omega content.
-- Jay
Posted by G-man885858 on June 28, 2009, at 16:05:25
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » G-man885858, posted by yxibow on June 28, 2009, at 15:57:07
>
> There are also vegetable Omega sources, such as Perilla Oil (from the Japanese shiso plant), Flax, Borage, and a handful of other things including walnuts.
>
> As a vegetarian, I personally take Perilla as it has a fairly high omega content.
>
> -- Jay
Jay,No I don't have an intolerance to seafood... No seafood causes a similar reaction to fish oil.
I never knew about vegetarian omega 3's. That sounds pretty cool.
I did, however, read a post on some forum about a guy who had a similar problem with omega 3s. What he did was he had to take his omega 3s simultaneously with a LOT of omega 6 - and this seemed to cure his omega 3 intolerance.
I once heard of algae oil... has anyone ever had experience with that?
Posted by morganpmiller on June 28, 2009, at 20:22:28
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » yxibow, posted by G-man885858 on June 28, 2009, at 16:05:25
Borage oil, black current oil, and evening primrose are all good sources of healthy omega 6. I think borage has the highest concentration.
Chia, Salba, and Flax are good sources for Omega 3s. They just don't provide the EPA and DHA sources that are believed to have such profound brain health benefits. Also, when consuming flax seed capsules, the omega 3s supposedly are not absorbed very well. While omega 3s in flax, chia, and salba seeds will most likely benefit our brains, they do not have the reseach behind them for benefitting our brains the way fish oil or krill oil EPA/DHA do.
If you do not have a problem with eating any type of fish, I would really try to find a high quality pharmaceutical fish oil supplement with a 4 to 1 EPA/DHA ratio. I know I sound like a broken record. I have heard of people having bad reactions to consuming higher doses of DHA. I have also read that higher EPA is recommended for depression and other mental disorders. I think EPA has a more calming effect, but not in a slowing down way.
Adding Borage oil or black current oil would be recommended. I can't remember exactly, but black current may offer something that borage oil doesn't. I currently take borage but may be switching to black current. Both are good clean sources of the good omega ^
Posted by yxibow on June 28, 2009, at 23:14:38
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » yxibow, posted by G-man885858 on June 28, 2009, at 16:05:25
> >
> > There are also vegetable Omega sources, such as Perilla Oil (from the Japanese shiso plant), Flax, Borage, and a handful of other things including walnuts.
> >
> > As a vegetarian, I personally take Perilla as it has a fairly high omega content.
> >
> > -- Jay
>
>
> Jay,
>
> No I don't have an intolerance to seafood... No seafood causes a similar reaction to fish oil.
>
> I never knew about vegetarian omega 3's. That sounds pretty cool.
>
> I did, however, read a post on some forum about a guy who had a similar problem with omega 3s. What he did was he had to take his omega 3s simultaneously with a LOT of omega 6 - and this seemed to cure his omega 3 intolerance.
>
> I once heard of algae oil... has anyone ever had experience with that?
I forgot about Borage.... there are some "combo" pressed vegetable oil capsule/pills.There is -- I forget the name of the company -- that patented an algae oil extraction that has an even higher complex of Omega than Perilla, but its fairly expensive for the benefits from what I recall. If it comes down in price, maybe.
-- Jay
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2009, at 6:35:39
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » G-man885858, posted by yxibow on June 28, 2009, at 15:57:07
> There are also vegetable Omega sources, such as Perilla Oil (from the Japanese shiso plant), Flax, Borage, and a handful of other things including walnuts.
>
> As a vegetarian, I personally take Perilla as it has a fairly high omega content.
>
> -- JayWell, there are omegas, and then there are omegas.
Borage is primarily considered to be a source of the omega-6 fatty acid gamma-linolenic acid.
Perilla and flax are good sources of the omega-3 fatty acid alpha-linolenic acid, with walnuts much lower in concentration. None of these is considered to be an adequate source for the essential fatty acids EPA and DHA, especially the latter one.
I forget if it was the EU health directorate, or the WHO, that issued a concensus statement on the subject, but alpha-linolenic acid, the omega-3 found in many vegetable oils, is not considered to be an adequate precursor for DHA, and only a modest precursor for EPA. They recommend that the two long chain omega-3 fats be included in the diet pre-formed.
For vegetarians, there is only one source of which I am aware, algal oils. These algae are the ultimate source of all marine omega-3 oils, actually. Algal oils are very rich in DHA, but it is believed that we can adequately convert DHA to EPA. If EPA intake is specifically required, then the only source of which I am aware is one of the marine oils.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2009, at 6:40:18
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » yxibow, posted by G-man885858 on June 28, 2009, at 16:05:25
> I never knew about vegetarian omega 3's. That sounds pretty cool.
See my prior post. They are not interchangeable with e.g. fish oil.
> I did, however, read a post on some forum about a guy who had a similar problem with omega 3s. What he did was he had to take his omega 3s simultaneously with a LOT of omega 6 - and this seemed to cure his omega 3 intolerance.
That defeats the purpose of taking the fish oil. All he did was block the utilization of the fish oil, unless the omega-6 he was using was gamma-linoleic acid (borage, black currant, evening primrose).
> I once heard of algae oil... has anyone ever had experience with that?I've never used it. It's expensive. The dominant brand for many years has been Neuromins, but if I recall correctly, a somewhat cheaper competitor entered the marketplace a couple of years ago. That should be bringing prices down to a more reasonable level.
I would not recommend algal oil for anyone other than strict vegetarians, as it contains no EPA.
Lar
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 29, 2009, at 6:56:07
In reply to Re: Serious Fish oil problems! Please help! » G-man885858, posted by yxibow on June 28, 2009, at 23:14:38
> I forgot about Borage.... there are some "combo" pressed vegetable oil capsule/pills.
Those combos, e.g. Udo's oil, are a waste of money. There is nobody in western society who needs extra sources of linoleic acid, the typical omega-6 found in vegetable oils of all types. They may need some omega-9 (oleic acid as from olive oil), and/or the specific omega-6 gamma-linolenic acid found in borage/black currant/evening primrose. All these combos do is dilute the constituents in which the diet may be weak with constituents which are already over-represented. If you need more omega-9, use more olive oil. If you need some GLA, use some of the listed oils.
> There is -- I forget the name of the company -- that patented an algae oil extraction that has an even higher complex of Omega than Perilla, but its fairly expensive for the benefits from what I recall. If it comes down in price, maybe.
>
> -- JayNeuromins was the first algal oil, and it contains relatively high levels of DHA (still lower than fish oils), and no EPA (unlike fish oils). Our bodies are capable of doing some limited conversion of DHA to EPA.
I just looked, and there are a number of competitors to Neuromins available. A new and cheaper processing method came online a few years ago, and there is now some price competition. But you will still pay a substantial premium, both in the wallet, and in health benefits, to stay strictly vegetarian.
Lar
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