Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 883142

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new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP

Posted by Michael Bell on February 28, 2009, at 21:43:08

article is here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19180583?dopt=Abstract

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP » Michael Bell

Posted by myco on February 28, 2009, at 21:51:37

In reply to new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by Michael Bell on February 28, 2009, at 21:43:08

Thanks for this post...great timing. Ive just realized my sleep med seroquel is making my dep/anx worse the next day and have been theorizing dopamine antagonism as the issue. You couldnt have picked a better time to post this...literally minutes after my question above lol

thnx
myco

> article is here:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19180583?dopt=Abstract

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP

Posted by Relapse on February 28, 2009, at 23:34:03

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP » Michael Bell, posted by myco on February 28, 2009, at 21:51:37

That is really interesting information. I have struggled with anxiety/depression 4ever. Recently I was put on 200mg of Seroquel for sleep. Is that strategy counterproductive to my lithium/Zoloft combo?
Thanks

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP

Posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2009, at 23:52:06

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by Relapse on February 28, 2009, at 23:34:03

You're all so smart. I'm not with the neurotransmitters. Have Gad. Is there a way to explain in simple terms I could understand and then list what meds would be good for it. I'm serious. thanks Phillipa

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP » Relapse

Posted by myco on March 1, 2009, at 0:04:59

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by Relapse on February 28, 2009, at 23:34:03

I'm not sure Relapse...but I've read studies implicating/showing that the newer antipsychotics basically lower dopamine and seratonin. So if your base med works to increase the levels of these to produce some kind of stability for you (like Nardil for me) then it seems logical that something like Seroquel could inhibit or decrease the effects of the AD. I'm not sure though...i'm still a newbie and learning about the pharm stuff. I wish I could just "hang out" with a pharmacologist working on this stuff for awhile lol...it's fascinating. I hope one of the resident biochem knowledgeable people here speaks up on this...I need to know how to approach this shift downward that Seroquel seems to be giving my moods.


> That is really interesting information. I have struggled with anxiety/depression 4ever. Recently I was put on 200mg of Seroquel for sleep. Is that strategy counterproductive to my lithium/Zoloft combo?
> Thanks

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP

Posted by mav27 on March 1, 2009, at 0:22:58

In reply to new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by Michael Bell on February 28, 2009, at 21:43:08

So how do we know which study is correct? This one or the previous ones that found opposite results?

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP » mav27

Posted by myco on March 1, 2009, at 0:35:17

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by mav27 on March 1, 2009, at 0:22:58

What previous study is that mav


> So how do we know which study is correct? This one or the previous ones that found opposite results?

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP » myco

Posted by mav27 on March 1, 2009, at 1:41:16

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP » mav27, posted by myco on March 1, 2009, at 0:35:17

> What previous study is that mav
>
>
> > So how do we know which study is correct? This one or the previous ones that found opposite results?
>

Whichever ones it means in the article at the bottom.
"These findings do not replicate previous findings of altered striatal DAT and D(2) receptor availability in GSAD subjects assessed with SPECT"

and this one possibly http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/abstract/157/3/457

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » mav27

Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 2:50:04

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by mav27 on March 1, 2009, at 0:22:58

The previous study that did find an abnormality is here: http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/157/3/457

As far as which study is the accurate one, it is hard to say. There certainly is a dysfunction of the dopamine and serotonin system, but just increasing the level of a neurotransmitter probably won't cut it. Likely there is an allele variation that affects many of the neurotransmitters and neuropeptides in the brain, in specific portions of the brain. However, there seems to be some headway with genetic scanning. Here's a study that directly links differences in serotonin allele's with social reward and social anxiety:

http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=95773

Here's another recent study that shows that there are differences between social phobes and non-phobic people as far as the dopamine and serotonin transporters (as opposed to receptors)are concerned:

http://jnm.snmjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/jnumed.107.045518v1?ck=nck

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » Relapse

Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 2:59:03

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in SP, posted by Relapse on February 28, 2009, at 23:34:03

If the anxiety you are suffering from is of the socially anxious and socially paranoid type (they are judging me, etc.) then my belief is that two classes of drugs will make those symptoms worse: drugs that raises dopamine levels (not including drugs that stimulate dopamine release) and drugs that act as norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors. In regards to your question about Seroquel - As much as people think APs are the work of the devil, I think that under the proper guidance they can be very effective in combination with SSRIs for social phobia, especially if there is a paranoid component to it (which there usually is).

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » Michael Bell

Posted by myco on March 1, 2009, at 10:45:14

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » Relapse, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 2:59:03

Hi Mike,

Social anxiety is one of my root issues (GAD - type also. These labels are confusing and mixed for me) - very severe at times and yes social phobia (I guess paranoid is one perception of it). Why do you think that drugs used to raise dopamine levels and norepinephrine would make these conditions worse? I've just begun tyrosine this morning with nardil in a very small dose with all the proper vitamin and mineral accompaniments. I still think that seroquel lowers DA and SA. The drop in my moods when I started it a week ago for sleep on nardil (25mg - tiny dose) is to coincidental to not be associated I think.

thnx
myco


> If the anxiety you are suffering from is of the socially anxious and socially paranoid type (they are judging me, etc.) then my belief is that two classes of drugs will make those symptoms worse: drugs that raises dopamine levels (not including drugs that stimulate dopamine release) and drugs that act as norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors. In regards to your question about Seroquel - As much as people think APs are the work of the devil, I think that under the proper guidance they can be very effective in combination with SSRIs for social phobia, especially if there is a paranoid component to it (which there usually is).

 

Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ??? » Michael Bell

Posted by Vincent_QC on March 1, 2009, at 11:46:16

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » Relapse, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 2:59:03

> If the anxiety you are suffering from is of the socially anxious and socially paranoid type (they are judging me, etc.) then my belief is that two classes of drugs will make those symptoms worse: drugs that raises dopamine levels (not including drugs that stimulate dopamine release) and drugs that act as norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors. In regards to your question about Seroquel - As much as people think APs are the work of the devil, I think that under the proper guidance they can be very effective in combination with SSRIs for social phobia, especially if there is a paranoid component to it (which there usually is).

Hi Michael,
Your post is a little bit confusing.

First, if I follow your advises, I should never uses meds who act on the NE reuptake and the raises of Dopamine...

So if i'm right, the following list of meds are not good for Social phobia and general anxiety as well as panic disorder???

MAOI's : They raises the level of the SE, NE and DA as well as bloking some others things like the alpha1 blockade, D2 blockade, H1 blockade, muscarinic blockade and 5HT2 blockade ... If it's the case, why the Nardil and the Parnate was the only drugs who act directly by giving some relief of my social anxiety ??? Especially the Parnate, who hit more the NE, as far as I know...because I had a lot of high blood pressure problem on it....but it was A WAY more effective than any newer drugs for the SAD and GAD...

TCA's: I'm now trying the Clomipramine, it's the only one TCA with the most potent effect on the Serotonin reuptake...with a metabolite who work on the NE reuptake as well as others bloking effect again on the alpha1, D2,H1,Muscarinic and 5HT2... So I will have to drop out the others TCA's like the Nortyptiline or the Desperamine, just because the blocking power of the NE is a lot more elevated than any others TCA's???

SSRI's: The Paxil is approved by the FDA for the SAG and GAD....but the paxil have some affinity with the bloking effect of the DA...as well as a small D2 bloking effect...it's the only one SSRI to have these effects... For the others recommended SSRI's or the SRNI's like the Zoloft, the Effexor-XR or the Cymbalta, they all have some effect on the NE... and what about the Wellbutrin, who act on the DA???

That's a lot confusing cause a lot of studies exist about abnormalities of a lot of receptors or transporters in the brains on SAD or GAD people...It's seem now that a lot of these studies demontrated different result about the same problem, that's what I call contradiction... I don'T think a small studies implies 32 volunters will make me change my minds about the way I will treat my SAD and the meds I will try...They discover newer things about SAD regulary but the meds never evoluated at the same time and they don't point out to some new target to treat in the brains...that's always the same SE, NE and DA with some blockage effect on others neurotransmitter...Studies about low level of oxycontin exist now for SAD people...now it's seem that the D2 is not anymore a part of a problem...they will discover in a couple of years that finally the SE, NE and DA is not implicated into the SAD or GAD problems??? That's a little bit ridiculous...

The facts is that we have to look into more basic causes... I don't argue about the facts that's SAD or GAD is not linked to a problem of one of the neurotransmitter in the brains, it have to comming from somewhere....but even if it's genetic or not, even if it's a problem inside the brains of the person who suffer from these diseases, the facts are that a lot of people who suffers from SAD or GAD had bad experiences and childhood. The brain adapt himself into this bad experiences and learn to find a way ton encounter the problem... no wonder why SAD is a lot linked into the drugs abuse problems or alcohol problems... That's make the person who suffer from SAD a lot more bitter and bitchy with the others...because a lot of those people are frustrated of their own life and the past experiences....The fact that they was not well treated or well accepted by the others in their chilhood augment the chance for them to became not very friendly and nice... I don't write that all the people who suffer from SAD are like this...but that's my case...frustration can make things more bad, you can trust me...

I'm like that... I suffer from more than 12 years of SAD with GAD, BDD, depression and others co-morbidities that come with all these diseases... I had a bad childhood, no friends to play with me, always alone, a lot anxious at school because I had to avoid a lot of places and a lot of peoples that always laughting about me and hurt me, physically and mentally, just because I was a fat kid... so now i'm 33 years old and I tend to judge a lot the others, that's a normal reflex I think, it's the way I find to feel augment my self-esteem and yes, I know it's not the good way...but i'm like that...I tend to be always negative and I have always something bad to say about someone else...I don't trust anyone, I feel disconnected with the society and the others, I just feel like i'm not a part of this world...and that i'm just sit and look at the parade but I cannott change or do anything...

All of this to say that a good CBT is as good as any drugs or meds to help someone with SAD or GAD...Learn to manage their own stress and anxiety is difficult and it's why we have to cope with these problems and try to find naturals solutions to help us to get more well...the addition of the meds help to stabilise the treatment...and make it work more longer...

Try to forget the past and move on is not always easy... and some meds don't help to stop the negatives thoughts inside our head...that's what I experience now on the Clomipramine... it make me a lot more nostalgic and I always think about my past on it...I suppose this side-effect will dissepear...

If you look into the developpement of the meds industry, in the last 60 years, nothing really improve in the mental illiness treatments... If you look at the newer drugs VS the older drugs like TCA's or MAOI's, nothing is more effective now...and they never find a newer way of work, any new targets to hit in the brains or neurotransmitters and hormones or anything else to treat more well the SAD, GAD or depression...

The newer drugs are just more safe and clean, that's it...but make them more cleaner doesn't make them work better...so it's why oldest drugs often treat more well resistant treatments patients and sometimes oldest drugs like the MAOI's can be the only way to get out of these mental problems... Yes, older drugs can give more side-effects, but no, they are not more dangerous if you take them by following doctor advises... The difference is that the newer drugs will never kill someone if taking in overdose....oldest drugs can kill peoples in overdose...The compagny who produce newer drugs don't want to be sue by family members of someone who die from an overdose of their products...and pay millions of dollars for this mistake... that's the main difference with newer and older drugs...since a lot of older drugs are now generic med...if an old drug kill someone, the small compaghy will just close, that's it... but newer drugs produce by well know compagnies will never be dangerous...

Anyway, all of this to say that we are all different, some people will react well to the SSRI'S or the SRNI's and they will find some relief of the SAD or GAD on them...Others people like me will try everything on-label and off-label to help them to feel more well and control their SAD or GAD but nothing will help them... I'm sure that's we don't have the same problems inside the brains, even if we all suffer from SAD or GAD...you cannot apply one technic to treat someone into everyone...it will be so easy like that...so for me, this kind of studies don't make any change...since the meds will never involve more... We will have soon newer drugs who will act on the SE, NE and DA at the same time, like the older MAOI's but with less side-effect, but i'm sure they will not be more helpfull for SAD or GAD or depression than the SSRI's or the SRNI's or the others drugs like the Remeron or the Wellbutrin or anything else... The fact is that everyone have to try and find their own way to treat themself...sometimes, the period of time to find the good meds combo is more long...it can take years to achieve it...and finally recover completly...sometimes only a partial answer will be reach...I think it's really hard to tell for now what is really implied into the SAD problem...

Well, that's what I think...

For my experience, I tend to say that older drugs work more well than newer ones...but have more side-effects for sure...the rest is not important for me...it's a try and fail process...

 

Re: Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ?? » Vincent_QC

Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 12:13:46

In reply to Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ??? » Michael Bell, posted by Vincent_QC on March 1, 2009, at 11:46:16

Nardil is effective, yes, but consider what nardil does: it raises serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and GABA. The current belief is that that the reason why it is more effective than other MAOIs for most people with social phobia is because it is a GABA transanimase inhibitor in addition to an MAO inhibitor. Deprenyl, an MAO inhibitor, is not anywhere near as effective for social phobia, because all it does is increase dopamine and PEA. In fact Deprenyl often exacerbates social anxiety. Furthermore, increasing norepinephrine by way of MAO inhibition is not the same as blocking its reuptake. The drugs that block reuptake of norepinephrine (as opposed to raising it by way of MAO inhibition) tend to get very poor reviews for social phobia.

Regarding Oxytocin, the most effective drugs for social phobia, even moreso than Nardil or Klonopin, are GHB and MDMA, because they are prosocial, not merely anti-anxiety meds. They actually stimulate Oxytocin release. People with social phobia actually have abnormally high oxytocin levels, so it is believed that merely raising oxytocin levels won't help, but that there is a breakdown in the release factor and the binding to oxytocin receptors that is the problem as far as that neuropeptide is concerned.

But you are right, new discoveries are being made every day, so maybe ten years down the road they will not even be looking at neurotransmitters for anxiety and depression problems. Could be a problem with alleles, or with inflammation, etc. Who knows?

 

Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » myco

Posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 12:23:35

In reply to Re: new study finds no D2 dopamine abnormality in » Michael Bell, posted by myco on March 1, 2009, at 10:45:14

Hi Myco, it is not raising the norepinephrine levels, but the reuptake inhibitors specifically, that I think are not good for social phobia. This is based on a lot of research and personal experience, and is by no means to be considered gospel. Looking at what is out there today, I think it is pretty much accepted that the most effective drugs for social anxiety are MDMA, GHB, NARDIL and KLONOPIN, and for some people, the SSRIs, while APs are the most effective for paranoia. So combinations of the above, as long as they are safe and legal (not mdma or ghb obviously) should be effective to some degree.

> Hi Mike,
>
> Social anxiety is one of my root issues (GAD - type also. These labels are confusing and mixed for me) - very severe at times and yes social phobia (I guess paranoid is one perception of it). Why do you think that drugs used to raise dopamine levels and norepinephrine would make these conditions worse? I've just begun tyrosine this morning with nardil in a very small dose with all the proper vitamin and mineral accompaniments. I still think that seroquel lowers DA and SA. The drop in my moods when I started it a week ago for sleep on nardil (25mg - tiny dose) is to coincidental to not be associated I think.
>
> thnx
> myco
>
>
>
>
> > If the anxiety you are suffering from is of the socially anxious and socially paranoid type (they are judging me, etc.) then my belief is that two classes of drugs will make those symptoms worse: drugs that raises dopamine levels (not including drugs that stimulate dopamine release) and drugs that act as norepinephrine reuptake inhibitors. In regards to your question about Seroquel - As much as people think APs are the work of the devil, I think that under the proper guidance they can be very effective in combination with SSRIs for social phobia, especially if there is a paranoid component to it (which there usually is).
>
>

 

Re: Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ?? » Michael Bell

Posted by Vincent_QC on March 2, 2009, at 7:11:17

In reply to Re: Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ?? » Vincent_QC, posted by Michael Bell on March 1, 2009, at 12:13:46

> Nardil is effective, yes, but consider what nardil does: it raises serotonin, dopamine, norepinephrine and GABA. The current belief is that that the reason why it is more effective than other MAOIs for most people with social phobia is because it is a GABA transanimase inhibitor in addition to an MAO inhibitor. Deprenyl, an MAO inhibitor, is not anywhere near as effective for social phobia, because all it does is increase dopamine and PEA. In fact Deprenyl often exacerbates social anxiety. Furthermore, increasing norepinephrine by way of MAO inhibition is not the same as blocking its reuptake. The drugs that block reuptake of norepinephrine (as opposed to raising it by way of MAO inhibition) tend to get very poor reviews for social phobia.
>
> Regarding Oxytocin, the most effective drugs for social phobia, even moreso than Nardil or Klonopin, are GHB and MDMA, because they are prosocial, not merely anti-anxiety meds. They actually stimulate Oxytocin release. People with social phobia actually have abnormally high oxytocin levels, so it is believed that merely raising oxytocin levels won't help, but that there is a breakdown in the release factor and the binding to oxytocin receptors that is the problem as far as that neuropeptide is concerned.
>
> But you are right, new discoveries are being made every day, so maybe ten years down the road they will not even be looking at neurotransmitters for anxiety and depression problems. Could be a problem with alleles, or with inflammation, etc. Who knows?
>
>

Hi Michael,
Yeah, I agree for the Nardil...but the Gaba inhibition is another discussion issue... I think the gaba of type A or type B action is overrated on SAD... I had a more strong answer to the Parnate, who is suppose to be a MAOI who don't cause the inhibition of the Gaba of with a Gaba-energic effect... The Nardil do have some good effects on me, but it was less effective than the Parnate, maybe because I was already addicted to the benzos drugs before I begin it??? Anyway, the addiction to the benzos drugs is a proof for me that's they are not a good solution to treat the SAD...They are the most powerfull gaba-A agonist... Now, it's seem that i'm stuck with a Benzos addiction since 2005 and I will never be able to stop them, even if I try severals times to withdraw them with the Dr Asthon method (Valium...1mg cut week)... The Gaba effect pop-out for most of the people after a couple of months...so I don't think the Gaba-A effect or the Gaba-B inhibition have a strong action on the SAD people... Anyway, for now, you can't cure at 100% the SAD, since it's probably one of the most complicated mental disease to treat...

The Rivotril, who was suppose to be the best drug for social phobia, in a combination with the Nardil, didn't do anything really good for me...nothing compare with the Parnate action alone...too bad the heart and blood pression was a major issue for me with the Parnate...

I now understand more what you are saying...Inihibion and reuptake is different...I don't want to argue about this, but I wonder why some people will answer very well to stimulants drugs to help them with their SAD...and why others people with SAD will answer well to just a regular SSRI's or a SRNI's (Effexor and Cymbalta share the same NE reuptake action ..no???)... And why some people with SAD answer well to the more stimulant AD's like the Prozac (the more stimulant SSRI) or the Wellbutrin??? Why others people with SAD answer well to TCA's who works only on the NE reuptake?...That's so difficult to understand...and explain... Why in my case I don't have a good reaction to meds who act on the serotonin??? They make me more anxious... Does it's mean that the Serotonin reuptake is worsing the SAD ??? Why I answer more well to drugs who increase the NE...by the inhibition or the reuptake??? Why I can drink more than 10 cups of coffee by day, without having more anxiety and without worsing my SAD...making me PRO-sociable...and why some others people can't drink a single cup of coffee without having a panic attack and feeling a lot bad in socials situations???

So much questions, so less answer... I think that the magic reciepe don't exist for now for the SAD...

I do a mistake yesterday...I'm stuck with a SAD problem since i'm 19yo...so i'm like that since 14 years...not 12years... and enought is enought... I do a lot of CBT therapies, I had severals psychologists, I change often of PDoc, I try every dawm meds that exist and nothing really works on me and when it's seem to works, I have strong side-effects that almost kill me and don't fade-away with time...

I wonder what you do when everything fails and you are treatments resistants??? You commit suicide or you stay in your house or your appartement for the rest of your life??? I'm lucky to not being suicidal...because I probably will not be a part of this world since a lot of times...

The thruth is that for now, the SAD is a not well know problem and research about that specific problem don't seem to be very productive and give good results... The researchers and Doctors who work on that field don't seem to understand it very well and don't seem to know where to look... At the same time, pharmaceutical companies put a lot of pressure on the FDA or Health Canada to impose their products and they want to make believe to the people who suffer from the SAD that their products are the only one good to treat the SAD... but that's not the thruth...it's all about money, they don't care about the people who suffer from this disease...

From my experience, the NE reuptake and the DA raise is not worsing the SAD... the facts is that no drugs for now succeed to produce a strong and robust treatment to CURE the SAD...contrary to people who only suffer of depression ( I don't minimise the depression problem, that's also a terrible disease)...but at least, the depression can be cure at 100% in most of the case, after severals tries of AD's... When you add co-morbidities to the SAD like BDD, GAD, Panic disorder with agoraphobia and depression, lack of energy and motivation and some ADD and cognitives problems related to the benzos drugs addiction, you end-up trying every meds avaible, sometimes alone, sometimes in combo...and nothing seem to improve your state and you became more depressed and more anxious...that's like a big circle that never ending...you look for the exit but you never find it...even with a good exposure therapy...and repetitive exposition time in social situation, you continue to feel bad in social situation...and you continue to feel like you are ugly and that people around you judge you or look at you...

I do believe that giving benzos drugs to someone with SAD is not recommended, the Rivotril is highly addictive and pop-out often after a couple of weeks... the Xanax, well know for it's powerfull action, especially on the panic disorder problem with agoraphobia or not, is probably worse for the addiction than the Rivotril...these meds are just like putting a bandage on the problem without curing it or control it... I see the Gaba drugs as a a kind of addiction like alcohol or street drugs...nothing more good or less bad... If I was aware about the possible addiction of the Rivotril in 2005, i'm sure I will not be in the same state of minds 4 years later...Being stuck with an addiction to a med, a med who don't work anymore, but if you don't take it you became almost crazy...that's really disappointing and frustrating...

Anyway, I repeat myself...I'm not frustrated about you or what you write, it's your own experience, but you cannot apply the same model or patern or meds experiences on the others, we are all different and we all react differently to meds...

For the oxycontin level, I don't think it's also another important fact in the SAD...And for the paranoia, I don't even know if AP's works well or not for SAD people....I try all of them at highg or not high dosages...they always worse my SAD...making me almost always on the panic attack mood with a more pronounced agoraphobia problem and a lot of hands shake and muscles cramps...

I know one thing, the Seroquel is the only AP that I can take in a low dosage...and it's the only med who can put me asleep for more than 5 hours in a row...at 50mg dosage...I will need to increase it soon at 75mg because I begin to be awake early... I don't know if the D2 effect and the 5HTP2 effect is worsing the SAD, but I don't care, I just want to be able to sleep at night...at least when I sleep I don't think and my minds have a break...even if I dreams a lot since I was put on the Clomipramine...

Well that's all for now...and that's enought... it was a nice discussion ;-)

Have a good day and take care of you!

All I hope is that everyone with SAD on this board will find their own way to treat and control their SAD... Keep the faith everyone!!!

Bye!

Vincent

 

Re: Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ??

Posted by desolationrower on March 4, 2009, at 6:22:44

In reply to Re: Dopamine raises + NE reuptake = worsing SAD ?? » Michael Bell, posted by Vincent_QC on March 2, 2009, at 7:11:17

ok some misunderstandings here

there is a difference between 'lowering' a neurotransmitter and blocking the receptor for a neurotransmitter, as well as affecting the neurones. for example, nris reduce LC firing, but incraease NA levels several hundred percent, and don't block the receptor (well, some tcas block alpha1 adreoceptors)

"MAOI's : They raises the level of the SE, NE and DA as well as bloking some others things like the alpha1 blockade, D2 blockade, H1 blockade, muscarinic blockade and 5HT2 blockade ..."

no MAOIS availible (or created, afaik) block any of those receptors


i do think its worth trying to differentiate between paranoia and non-paranoid social anxiety. the odd/eccentric personality diorders are commonly comorbid with avoidant personality, but remember schizophrenia in general is hypodopaminergic in the pfc, so even there antipsychotics aren't great, and NRIs could be helpful.

i woudl like to see the full study, its hard to compare to the old one with just an abstract, but i think it just shows the way DSM categories f*ck up research.

-d/r


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