Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 882596

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Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by mav27 on February 26, 2009, at 9:48:24

In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58

I was tested for vit D in 2007 and my results came back with a level of 8 nmol .
I've now gotten it up to about 38 i think it was, but it didn't help the depression unfortunatly.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » mav27

Posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 10:17:44

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by mav27 on February 26, 2009, at 9:48:24

That's still quite low. Optimal levels are considered to be above 80 nmol/L.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch

Posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 10:52:36

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » mav27, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 10:17:44

I don't know what nmol is but my endo tested levels mine was 42 and low was supposed to be 20. Phillipa. He said it was fine????

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 11:19:07

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch, posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 10:52:36

Many doctors are not up to date about vitamin D

----------------------------------------------

July 19, 2006 A review published in the July issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition identifies the optimal blood level of vitamin D. The investigators suggest that with the current recommended daily allowance, the optimal level is not attainable for most.

"Recent evidence suggests that vitamin D intakes above current recommendations may be associated with better health outcomes," write Heike A. Bischoff-Ferrari, from the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston, Massachusetts, and colleagues. "However, optimal serum concentrations of 25-hydroxyvitamin D [25(OH)D] have not been defined."

The authors review findings from studies that evaluated thresholds for serum 25(OH)D concentrations in relation to bone mineral density (BMD), lower extremity function, dental health, and risk of falls, fractures, and colorectal cancer.

For these end points, the most advantageous serum concentrations of 25(OH)D begin at 75 nmol/L (30 ng/mL), and the best range from 90 to 100 nmol/L (3640 ng/mL). In most persons, these concentrations could not be reached with the currently recommended daily intakes of 200 IU vitamin D for younger adults and 600 IU vitamin D for older adults.

After comparing vitamin D intakes with achieved serum concentrations of 25(OH)D for the purpose of estimating optimal intakes, the authors suggest that an increase in the currently recommended intake of vitamin D is warranted for better bone health in younger adults and for all studied outcomes in older adults.

"An intake for all adults of >/=1000 IU (40 µg) vitamin D (cholecalciferol)/day is needed to bring vitamin D concentrations in no less than 50% of the population up to 75 nmol/L," the authors write. "The implications of higher doses for the entire adult population should be addressed in future studies.... Given the low cost, the safety, and the demonstrated benefit of higher 25(OH)D concentrations, vitamin D supplementation should become a public health priority to combat these common and costly chronic diseases."

The Medical Foundation (Charles A King Trust, Fleet National Bank, Co-Trustee, Boston, MA), the Harvard Hartford Foundation, the Kirkland Scholar Award, Irene and Fredrick Stare Nutrition Education Fund, the International Foundation for the Promotion of Nutrition Research Education, and the Swiss Foundation for Nutrition Research supported this study. The authors report no relevant financial relationships.

Am J Clin Nutr. 2006;84:18-28

Clinical Context
According to the authors of the current study, current efforts to assess optimal serum concentrations of 25(OH)D generally focus on bone health in older white persons, and the current definition of optimal 25(OH)D concentration is that concentration which maximally suppresses serum parathyroid hormone (PTH) because PTH promotes bone loss. However, this approach does not take into account fluctuations due to diet, time of day, renal function, and physical activity, and estimates of optimal 25(OH)D concentration therefore vary widely with no consensus reached. For bone health, the authors assert that BMD was a better end point for 25(OH)D levels than serum PTH because it is a strong predictor of fracture risk. Recent trials have measured serum 25(OH)D concentrations in relation to clinical outcomes such as fractures and falls. The mechanism by which vitamin D is thought to prevent falls is through de novo protein synthesis in muscles with improved cell growth and muscle function.

The authors conducted a review of the literature consisting of meta-analyses and clinical trials to estimate the optimal concentration of 25(OH)D levels based on clinical outcomes of BMD, fracture rate, risk of falling, oral health, and colorectal cancer incidence. The goal was to determine the optimal 25(OH)D concentrations and the corresponding vitamin D intake required to maintain this concentration at different ages, including in children and elderly patients of different ethnicities.

Study Highlights
Evidence was selected from the strongest studies from randomized controlled trials (RCTs), prospective studies, and cross-sectional studies.
BMD, fracture prevention, lower extremity function, falls, oral health, and colorectal cancer outcomes met these criteria.
Excluded were studies examining effects of vitamin D on multiple sclerosis, tuberculosis, insulin resistance, cancers other than colorectal cancer, osteoarthritis, and hypertension.
In the NHANES III study, which included younger (20-49 years) and older (>/=50 years) subjects with different ethnicity, those with 25(OH)D levels in the highest compared with the lowest quintile had higher BMD.
Higher 25(OH)D levels were associated with higher BMD throughout the reference range of 22.5 to 94 nmol/L in all subgroups.
In 5 RCTs of hip fracture risk and 7 RCTs of nonvertebral fracture risk, vitamin D intakes of 700 to 800 IU/day reduced the risk of hip fracture by 26% (relative risk [RR], 0.74) and any nonvertebral fracture by 23% (RR, 0.77) compared with calcium or placebo.
No significant benefit was observed for vitamin D intake of 400 IU/day or less.
The authors conclude that an intake of 700 to 800 IU/day in populations with baseline concentrations of <44 nmol/L is needed for fracture prevention. Baseline concentrations may also depend on latitude and vitamin D fortification in food.
In another study, the effect size for hip fracture prevention was a RR of 0.75 with 25(OH)D concentrations between 90 and 100 nmol/L.
In 5 RCTs, higher vitamin D intake was shown to reduce the risk of falling by 22% (pooled odds ratio [OR], 0.78) compared with calcium or placebo, and risk reduction was independent of the type of vitamin D, duration of therapy, and sex.
400 IU of vitamin D daily was insufficient to prevent falls and only trials that used 800 IU daily with calcium demonstrated a reduced risk of falling with an OR of 0.65.
In NHANES III, the threshold for improving lower limb function in older subjects using the 8-foot walk test and the sit-to-stand test was at 25(OH)D concentrations of 22.5 to 40 nmol/L. Further improvement was seen at 40 to 94 nmol/L.
Lower limb function improvement was similar for inactive and active men and women, 3 racial groups (white, blacks, and Mexican Americans) and those with higher and lower calcium intakes.
For tooth loss in older persons, 3 years of supplementation with 700 IU/day plus calcium 500 mg/day was associated with an OR of 0.4.
For alveolar detachment loss in persons older than 50 years, a significant association between 25(OH)D level and attachment loss was observed in both sexes independent of race.
The data on dental health outcomes suggest that 25(OH)D levels between 90 and 100 nmol/L are desirable.
The RR for colorectal cancer risk was between 0.53 and 0.60 for the highest compared with the lowest quintile of 25(OH)D concentration in larger studies.
For vitamin D intake, the relative risk reduction for the top (700-800 IU/day) compared with the lowest category of intake ranged from 0 to 58% in several studies.
In the Nurses Health Study, a benefit of colorectal protection was seen with >550 IU/day of vitamin D intake for more than 10 years.
Currently recommended daily intakes of vitamin D are 200 IU for younger adults, 400 IU for those aged 51 to 70 years, and 600 IU for those older than 70 years.
The authors suggested that to maintain 25(OH)D levels of 90 to 100 nmol/L in 50% of adults to maintain health, daily intakes of vitamin D of 700 to 1000 IU daily are required. A higher daily intake would be needed to bring more than 50% of the population into this range.
Pearls for Practice
PTH suppression and prediction of BMD and clinical outcomes of fracture, fall prevention, and dental health may be used to determine optimal 25(OH)D serum levels and vitamin D intake.
The optimal 25(OH)D level based on clinical outcomes is between 90 and 100 nmol/L and the associated vitamin D intake recommended to maintain these levels for 50% of adults is 700 to 1000 IU/day.

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/541149

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch

Posted by raisinb on February 26, 2009, at 16:16:29

In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58

I may be wrong, but doesn't Vitamin D have a relationship to sunlight? If you're taking a lot of it, and you don't go out in the sun, does it work? Or does sunlight give you Vitamin D?

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by Neal on February 26, 2009, at 17:14:41

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch, posted by raisinb on February 26, 2009, at 16:16:29

sunlight gives you vitamin D. maybe "D" is for depression :)

If the study is on to something, depression would be slightly less common in areas with more sunlight, i.e., near the equator. Anybody have any figures about that?

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by linkadge on February 26, 2009, at 19:51:03

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Neal on February 26, 2009, at 17:14:41

Actuallly, surisingly, my mood has improved in the last month after starting vitamine d supplementation.

Linkadge

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch

Posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:01:58

In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58

My Vitamin D test result came back at 22. Geez, I wonder how long it has been so low, considering my doctor never suggested the test?

The endocronologist is mailing me a script for vitamin D supplementation. I wonder if its going to make a difference in how I feel.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Garnet71

Posted by Phillipa on February 26, 2009, at 20:05:44

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch, posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:01:58

Gsrnet you can buy it in the health food store. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch

Posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:09:43

In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58

Here's good aggregate info; apparently, there are 2 types of Vitamin D--D2 and D3. My endo told me its very common to have the deficiency living in the NE. It doesn't say anything about depression.

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/vitamin-d/NS_patient-vitamind

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch

Posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:26:36

In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58

Vitamin D may affect serotonin:

"Intrigued researchers conducted more studies. The sunshine vitamin became linked to so many other conditions, recalled Boston University physician and vitamin D researcher Michael Holick, that when I first heard [the claims] I thought it was kind of crazy. How can it be doing so many things?

But Holick became convinced of vitamin D's effectiveness. Heart, colon, prostate, brain, all those cells have receptors for vitamin D. We know it stimulates serotonin production [important in depression]. It is important for muscle function. It has a major role in keeping cell growth in check; it kills cells if they turn malignant.

Phillipa, yes, I've seen vitamin D supplements at the stores. I think she's prescribing me a therapeutic dose, and I'd prefer that over trying to choose among brands, but thanks.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch, posted by Garnet71 on February 26, 2009, at 20:26:36

Yes, deficiency is rampant. buy d3 in softgel form the tablets don't absorb as well. 2-5k IU a day is a good start.

it also increases tyrosine hydroxalase activity. reduces inflammation.

make suyre you get vitamin k along with it. D increases calcium use, k makes sure the calcium goes where you want it (bones) and not wher eyou don't (soft tissue

'prescription' vitamin d might be the D2 form, which isn't as good.

-d/r

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by Netch on February 27, 2009, at 5:44:39

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56

Vitamin D is a tricky vitamin to supplement. You don't want too much and not too little.
I take 10k IU during fall, winter and spring since I live on the 59th parallell - the sun's UV light is too weak during these months to make vitamin D3. During the summer months I only supplement those days I haven't had any bodyexposure to sunlight.

This picture shows the relationship between vitamin D3 supplementation and blood 25(OH)D levels:
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/5/842/F2

Levels bellow 250 nmol/L 25(OH)D are considered safe. Basically supplementation up to 10k IU is safe.

According to Reinhold Vieth published cases of vitamin D toxicity with hypercalcemia all involve intake of more than 40k IU/d.

http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/69/5/842


 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 14:52:20

In reply to Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 26, 2009, at 9:30:58

Most multivitamins have 100% of the RDA of Vitamin D. So I wonder why the deficiency is so common? Is the RDA wrong?

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Netch

Posted by Neal on February 27, 2009, at 16:33:40

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by Netch on February 27, 2009, at 5:44:39

_________________________


Netch;

So do you personally notice any difference when you take/don't take Vitamin D?


_________________________

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb

Posted by Larry Hoover on February 27, 2009, at 17:14:54

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 14:52:20

Yes, the RDA is wrong. Do you want the long answer?

Lar

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Larry Hoover

Posted by Phillipa on February 27, 2009, at 19:04:28

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb, posted by Larry Hoover on February 27, 2009, at 17:14:54

Lar I do as was told to take 1000IU or 2000IU by endocrinologist for my bones and level was 42 blood so said not necessary but what's this about depression unless it also affects thyroid? Phillipa

 

I totally want the long answer! (nm) » Larry Hoover

Posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 19:57:15

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb, posted by Larry Hoover on February 27, 2009, at 17:14:54

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » desolationrower

Posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:18:47

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56

Well you're right on, d/r--I just got the script today - it's for Ergocalciferol (Vitamin D2) (Vitamin D) 50,000 unit oral cap; weekly x 8

Qty: (8)
No refills

My test results on the D:
Vitamin D 25-Hydroxy: 22
Vitamin D 25-OH, D3: 22
Vitamin D 25-OH, D2: <4

I've never seen a script like that, so I'll probably ask the pharmacist about it.

Are you sure you're not a doctor, desolationrower? I'll take your advice about the vit. K, too, although it wasn't mentioned to me.

Thanks!!

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb

Posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:23:49

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by raisinb on February 27, 2009, at 14:52:20

Aside from what Larry has to say, vitamin D was put in milk and fortified breakfast cereals, originally to prevent rickets. I rarely consume either; however, I never thought about needing it (dummy).

I don't take multivitamins because I was trying to get a regimine of seperate vitamines and supplements according to what brands I hear are the best for each. There's too much vitamin information out there and I get overwhelmeed.

My endo said the deficiency is very common in the NE of the U.S. where I live. I don't know why I never thought about it's importance before.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by mav27 on February 27, 2009, at 23:45:52

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » raisinb, posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:23:49

There was a sort of funny thing here in Australia a year or so back, because the government and cancer groups have been giving so many warnings about sun light and making things like wearing hats outside during school compulsory and to wear sun screen ect that in the last in the last year os so the medical experts have fired back because apparetly the amount of children and even adults with vitamin D deficiency is on the rise thanks to the cancer groups scaring so many people about going out in the sun.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » desolationrower

Posted by Garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 23:52:59

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by desolationrower on February 27, 2009, at 3:07:56

"it also increases tyrosine hydroxalase activity..."

What is that?

"make suyre you get vitamin k along with it. D increases calcium use, k makes sure the calcium goes where you want it (bones) and not wher eyou don't (soft tissue"

Not that the brief article I posted exclusively speaks for vitamin D, but it did mention cell growth and muscle tissue may be linked with D.

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » mav27

Posted by Garnet71 on February 28, 2009, at 0:29:22

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression, posted by mav27 on February 27, 2009, at 23:45:52

Hey Mav,

I had read that 10 minutes of sunlight per day could be sufficient for whichever type of D is synthesized by sunlight.

I'd be scared of sunlight too if I lived in Australia. Isn't there a big hole in the ozone about it?

I use suncreen now, but did not for years (and wish I had). I don't use it all the time though; only if I know I'm going to be out over an hour or so. It feels too unnatural for me to not let my skin absorb the sun, and I love that feeling too much.

In China, many women wear some type of stockings on their legs--with shorts or skirts in the hot summer. They even wear them on their feet with sandals and jeans. I could never wear those damn things in the summer or more recently, at any time of year. But the women in China have beautiful skin!

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression

Posted by desolationrower on February 28, 2009, at 3:33:19

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » desolationrower, posted by garnet71 on February 27, 2009, at 22:18:47

tyrosine hydroxylase is the rate limiting step to formatino of dopamine. vitd has some other effects that protect dopamine neurones.

garnet - not using sunscreen is probably why your numbers aren't as bad as usual.


-d/r

 

Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » Garnet71

Posted by rskontos on February 28, 2009, at 17:55:22

In reply to Re: Vitamin D's effect on depression » mav27, posted by Garnet71 on February 28, 2009, at 0:29:22

The research I've done on Vitamin D says that sunscreen will block some of the body's ability to produce Vitamin D. And it stated you needed to be outside for 20 minutes without sunscreen to get the full effects and that is not good so you should supplement.

I take 10000 mg. a day. I did notice a difference when I let myself run out.

And there is research to show that vitamin D is linked to certain cancers. I mean the lack thereof.

rsk

Phillipa, it ok to take that much when you have thyroid issues. I have them too and it was the doc that found that i have thyroid issues who suggested I really needed vitamin D. My levels were 25 during the summer. It was in July I was tested and doc said my levels should be closer to 200.



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