Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 836941

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Re: ECT...I am scared to death linkadge

Posted by Zeba on July 4, 2008, at 15:41:38

In reply to Re: ECT...I am scared to death, posted by linkadge on July 4, 2008, at 7:57:43

Agreed. In all my research, and I have published research myself, I have not seen anything to warrant a 70 or 80 percent postive response. I tried to get my ECT doc to consider doing some follow up research, and he was interested sort of and then said no he didn't have time. I said I could do it, and he knows I could, and he thought about it some more and then said no, that even though he considered me a colleage, I was also his patient. So that ended things.

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by Crotale on July 4, 2008, at 21:10:55

In reply to Re: ECT...I am scared to death linkadge, posted by Zeba on July 4, 2008, at 15:41:38

I think the 70-80% response rate is in regular depressed patients. My doc said he thinks it's closer to around 50% in med-refractory depression. Which is still pretty good if you think about it. (I don't know what the rate would be in psychotic depression, schizophrenia/catatonia, mania, etc.)

-Crotale

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 0:48:17

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by Crotale on July 4, 2008, at 21:10:55

I have heard the 80% figure thrown around, although I can't find any really substantial research now that I have looked for it.

Once my p-doc repeated the 80% figure I just figured it was true....he is a huge hot-shot that's won Doctor of the Year awards, and other accolades for his rTMS clinic. Everyone I encounter (my old p-doc, my psychologist, my neurologist, my GP) has heard of him and seems to think that he is god's gift to mental health, although with each visit I am growing less and less sure of that. I'm certainly not improving, that is for sure, and I have been with him for over six months now. Of course, I know that in psychiatry time that's really only a few minutes. The meds take so damn long to offer any sort of relief, if they do at all.

 

Re: ECT...I am scared to death Zeba

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 9:09:02

In reply to Re: ECT...I am scared to death linkadge, posted by Zeba on July 4, 2008, at 15:41:38

Thats exactly it. Some of them probably "don't want to know".

I think the 70-80% thing just kind of floats around as a justificiation of sorts for the continued usage of such a risky treatment.

Medical texts and literature aren't alwasy accurate. For instance, for the longest time, SSRI's only caused sexual dysfunction 10% of the time (as quoted on product inserts). In reality, probably more like 3/4 of SSRI users experience some form of sexual dysfunction.

Linkadge

 

Re: ECT response rate Crotale

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 9:10:19

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by Crotale on July 4, 2008, at 21:10:55

>I think the 70-80% response rate is in regular >depressed patients

How many ECT studies are there on "regular" non-med refractory, depressed patients?

Linkadge

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 9:14:51

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 0:48:17

Well, think of it this way. The statistic that is commonly used for the incidence of memory loss with ECT is apparently just a random number. Sakiem himself said that the number often quoted for the incidence of memory loss is *not* based on research.

I will look for the article....

So, if the numbers often publicised for the incidence of memory loss are flawed, why is it so inconcievable that those statistics used for the effectiveness are flawed?

Linkadge

 

Re: ECT response rate linkadge

Posted by IAMtheWalrus on July 5, 2008, at 13:57:29

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 9:14:51

> Well, think of it this way. The statistic that is commonly used for the incidence of memory loss with ECT is apparently just a random number. Sakiem himself said that the number often quoted for the incidence of memory loss is *not* based on research.
>
> I will look for the article....
>
> So, if the numbers often publicised for the incidence of memory loss are flawed, why is it so inconcievable that those statistics used for the effectiveness are flawed?
>
> Linkadge

So are you saying suicide is better than some memory loss?

-W

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 15:59:37

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 9:14:51

> Well, think of it this way. The statistic that is commonly used for the incidence of memory loss with ECT is apparently just a random number. Sakiem himself said that the number often quoted for the incidence of memory loss is *not* based on research.
>
> I will look for the article....
>
> So, if the numbers often publicised for the incidence of memory loss are flawed, why is it so inconcievable that those statistics used for the effectiveness are flawed?
>
> Linkadge

I don't think that it is at all inconceivable that the statistics are flawed. I just wanted to re-iterate that I was told this figure by someone who is very highly respected in the mental health field. I realize that this has nothing to do with research and that he can be just as incorrect as any other human being.

I have also read the article where Harold Sakceim admitted that he just made the 20% figure up (it's available somewhere on the ect.org website, but I wasn't able to locate it quickly). I also realize that he is very well respected in his field, as my doctor is, so my doctor could be just as full of shi* as Sackeim is. As Sackeim is connected with Mecta, my doctor is probably paid very well for each ECT treatment, so I realize that he may also have a financial motivation to inflate the statistic.

I apologize for repeating what I realize now is probably an incorrect statistic. Believe it or not, I honestly was not trying to act in a malicious way when I did. However, I can tell you that I am glad ECT is still there for me as a last resort. I know people who have done very well with it, as well as people who have had horrible experiences.

 

Re: ECT response rate linkadge

Posted by Zeba on July 5, 2008, at 16:46:42

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 9:14:51

Lindage,

I remember reading that he said that the numbers for memory loss were just sort of made up. Actually, I think there is a tape of him saying that on U-tube.

Zeba

 

Re: ECT response rate IAMtheWalrus

Posted by Zeba on July 5, 2008, at 16:50:19

In reply to Re: ECT response rate linkadge, posted by IAMtheWalrus on July 5, 2008, at 13:57:29

I think it depends on the person. Some people might rather be dead than have severe memory loss. Others might rather have memory impairment. One person I know who had over 100 ECT treatments had to have rehabilitation just to learn how to brush his teeth, use a fork and spoon, etc. And, he will never be 100%. That in and of itself would make me feel more depressed and suicidal, not less so.

Zeba

 

Re: ECT response rate BGB

Posted by Zeba on July 5, 2008, at 16:54:27

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 15:59:37

Yes; my pdoc was/is well respected in the field and has published a lot and done other things that make him an expert. I don't want to go into detail as I am not interested in promoting him or revealing too much here. I trusted him with my life which was a huge mistake. In the end he got pissed off at me because I was so upset with the memory problems from the ECT. He was my therapist too for two years. I knew I had to find someone else at that point, and I did.

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 17:10:12

In reply to Re: ECT response rate linkadge, posted by IAMtheWalrus on July 5, 2008, at 13:57:29

>So are you saying suicide is better than some memory loss?

Well for starters, people probably need to rethink the notion that ECT is their "last option". Nextly, show me studies that proves that ECT does infact actually reduce the rate of suicide.

For some patients (Hemmingway is a prime example) the failure of ECT coupled with the the prospect of permanant brain damage is infact what prompts suicide.

Nevertheless, if ECT works for you and you are comfortable with the risk then go for it.

I would just be more satisifed if somebody stepped up to the plate to initiate sound research that enables patients to make a more realistic and accuate appraisal of the benifits and risks. That research is long due.


Linkadge


 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 17:26:19

In reply to Re: ECT response rate BGB, posted by Zeba on July 5, 2008, at 16:54:27

Yes, if the procedure works then perhaps the memory loss is justified.

Some things in mind however.

a) the treatment may not work but still cause significant memory impairment. Then you're just as depressed (or more - and less functional). Damage to the brain struture may also make one more treatment resistant. You could win a battle but loose the war.

b) the treatment may only *initially* work yet memory impairment is pervasive and long lasting.

c) It may work well the first time, yet not work well the next. Change the electrode placement by a millimetre and the electricity might travel a different neural pathway. The procedure can be very unpredictable. So its not *necessarily* like "well it worked for me in the past, so I can rely on it in the future".

Linkadge

 

Re: ECT response rate linkadge

Posted by IAMtheWalrus on July 5, 2008, at 18:16:57

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 17:10:12

> >So are you saying suicide is better than some memory loss?
>
> Well for starters, people probably need to rethink the notion that ECT is their "last option". Nextly, show me studies that proves that ECT does infact actually reduce the rate of suicide.
>
> For some patients (Hemmingway is a prime example) the failure of ECT coupled with the the prospect of permanant brain damage is infact what prompts suicide.
>
> Nevertheless, if ECT works for you and you are comfortable with the risk then go for it.
>
> I would just be more satisifed if somebody stepped up to the plate to initiate sound research that enables patients to make a more realistic and accuate appraisal of the benifits and risks. That research is long due.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
> Good answer..I agree with what you said here.

-W
>
>

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 18:31:12

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 17:10:12

> For some patients (Hemmingway is a prime example) the failure of ECT coupled with the the prospect of permanant brain damage is infact what prompts suicide.


I would have to respectably disagree with you, as far as using Hemingway as an example. Far too little is known about his physical condition at his time of death to make assumptions about his diagnosis of depression, OCD, or bipolar disorder. It has been documented that Hemingway's ECT may have failed because his depression was a result of hematomachrosis, a genetic disease which results in increased iron levels in the blood, which can cause severe and debilitating depression. Bloodletting is the only treatment for hematomachrosis, even to this day. ECT has never been advocated as a treatment for hematomachrosis. Hemingway was most likely treated for his symptom, depression, rather than his true illness as it was unknown to his physicians at the time. While no autopsy was done at his time of death due to his family's request, the disease is genetic and runs rampant in his family. It is extremely likely (although not confirmed) that he had the disease, which would explain why his ECT treatments failed. Hemingway's father, who also committed suicide, had the disease, and it is known to be passed down paternally.

Heart disease is also known to cause depressive symptoms, and it is documented that Hemingway had high blood pressure, extremely high cholesterol levels, and severe aortal inflammation.

Hemingway also survived not one but TWO plane crashes, causing trauma to his head and crushing his vertebrae, among other very serious injuries. His head injuries were so severe that he lost his vision and hearing on his left side for a period of time. Hemingway's injuries were so extensive that many American newspapers jumped the gun and actually published his obituary. Such severe trauma to the brain could not only explain his depression, it could also explain his memory loss during ECT. Patients with severe head trauma are known to experience greater memory loss with ECT than typical patients.

Additionally, it is known that Hemingway was a very heavy drinker his entire life, and became a raging alcoholic in his final years. Not only can alcoholism cause depression, but heavy drinking is contraindicated with ECT treatment. This could have played a HUGE role in his memory loss.

Furthermore, it is well accepted by physicians that memory loss often reverses itself in the days and weeks after ECT in many patients. Hemingway killed himself only a few days after his last ECT treatment. There is a possibility that his memory would have come back to him in time, at least partially.

Hemingway is used constantly as a reference by ECT critics, but we know far, far too little about him and his condition to judge ECT by his opinion. There are far too many extenuating circumstances to proclaim that ECT caused Hemingway's death, especially when you consider that his father, two of his siblings, and his granddaughter all took their own life.

While I acknowledge that Hemingway himself blamed his ECT on his suicide, he was far too sick at the time to be able to make clear and well-thought-out statements. I'm sure that he did feel as though ECT killed him, but that simply does not make it fact, especially when you consider the plethora of severe illnesses and injuries he had shortly before the time of his death.

Oh, and an interesting bit of Hemingway trivia for anyone who is interested--Hemingway purchased the shotgun that he used to kill himself at Abercrombie and Fitch!

 

Re: ECT response rate BGB

Posted by Bob on July 5, 2008, at 20:04:17

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 18:31:12

> > For some patients (Hemmingway is a prime example) the failure of ECT coupled with the the prospect of permanant brain damage is infact what prompts suicide.
>
>
> I would have to respectably disagree with you, as far as using Hemingway as an example. Far too little is known about his physical condition at his time of death to make assumptions about his diagnosis of depression, OCD, or bipolar disorder. It has been documented that Hemingway's ECT may have failed because his depression was a result of hematomachrosis, a genetic disease which results in increased iron levels in the blood, which can cause severe and debilitating depression. Bloodletting is the only treatment for hematomachrosis, even to this day. ECT has never been advocated as a treatment for hematomachrosis. Hemingway was most likely treated for his symptom, depression, rather than his true illness as it was unknown to his physicians at the time. While no autopsy was done at his time of death due to his family's request, the disease is genetic and runs rampant in his family. It is extremely likely (although not confirmed) that he had the disease, which would explain why his ECT treatments failed. Hemingway's father, who also committed suicide, had the disease, and it is known to be passed down paternally.
>
> Heart disease is also known to cause depressive symptoms, and it is documented that Hemingway had high blood pressure, extremely high cholesterol levels, and severe aortal inflammation.
>
> Hemingway also survived not one but TWO plane crashes, causing trauma to his head and crushing his vertebrae, among other very serious injuries. His head injuries were so severe that he lost his vision and hearing on his left side for a period of time. Hemingway's injuries were so extensive that many American newspapers jumped the gun and actually published his obituary. Such severe trauma to the brain could not only explain his depression, it could also explain his memory loss during ECT. Patients with severe head trauma are known to experience greater memory loss with ECT than typical patients.
>
> Additionally, it is known that Hemingway was a very heavy drinker his entire life, and became a raging alcoholic in his final years. Not only can alcoholism cause depression, but heavy drinking is contraindicated with ECT treatment. This could have played a HUGE role in his memory loss.
>
> Furthermore, it is well accepted by physicians that memory loss often reverses itself in the days and weeks after ECT in many patients. Hemingway killed himself only a few days after his last ECT treatment. There is a possibility that his memory would have come back to him in time, at least partially.
>
> Hemingway is used constantly as a reference by ECT critics, but we know far, far too little about him and his condition to judge ECT by his opinion. There are far too many extenuating circumstances to proclaim that ECT caused Hemingway's death, especially when you consider that his father, two of his siblings, and his granddaughter all took their own life.
>
> While I acknowledge that Hemingway himself blamed his ECT on his suicide, he was far too sick at the time to be able to make clear and well-thought-out statements. I'm sure that he did feel as though ECT killed him, but that simply does not make it fact, especially when you consider the plethora of severe illnesses and injuries he had shortly before the time of his death.
>
> Oh, and an interesting bit of Hemingway trivia for anyone who is interested--Hemingway purchased the shotgun that he used to kill himself at Abercrombie and Fitch!
>
>


In my opinion, this is exactly why things like this are such a controversy. Ok, so maybe ECT didn't exacerbate Hemingway's condition. On the other hand, it definitely could have. Let's forget Hemingway for a second and use me as an example:

I experienced the onset of major depression in the early nineties, and it crescendoed for the rest of that decade and into the 2000's. By the spring of '05 I had had enough of the endless drug trials and suffering. I felt I had exhausted possibilities with pharmacology and the a "last resort" (outside of the failure to get into a VNS trial) was ECT. Believe me, the 50%-80% figures were encouraging. The decision was not made lightly but I finally went forward with 21 sessions at an area hospital that has a good reputation with the treatments and their administration. The hospital was good, the treatments were not. The first few were ok, but I was expecting something would eventually kick in. As time went on, it turned more and more nasty until both my psychiatrist and the psychiatrist at the hospital decided that it not was producing good results any longer.

The procedure produced a litany of negative effects that is too long to list here with time as a consideration, but in a nutshell it was extremely destabilizing to my mood, and caused autonomic dysfunction, sleep problems, and eventually... suicidality. You might ask why I didn't stop after the first few, and the answer is because it happened slowly and kind of crept up on me. It's difficult to assess your situation when you're confused, have memory loss, and are walking around in a state of derealization. I guess I trusted that it would get better.

When the treatments where abruptly stopped, within 2-3 weeks I sank into the most intense depression of my life, but was still dealing with all the physical effects the ECT had left me with. There was much suicidality and emotional lability. It has taken 2.5 - 3 years to get to the incredibly bad baseline I had before the treatments. It's not the same though. One reason the depression was so bad immediately after the treatments was because they profoundly changed how I responded to meds. Post ECT, I can only tolerate miniscule doses of psych drugs, and some that I took previously I can no longer stand at all. Many cause suicidality instead of preventing it. This leaves very few options when one is in crisis - I can't go back to ECT, and I can't tolerate drugs well at all any longer.

Despite everything that happened to me, I concede that ECT is apparently a lifesave for many, and works better than anything else for some. However, for some it can be an unmitigated disaster. Looking back on my decision to undergo the procedure, I'd have to say that I made the best decision I could muster at the time with the info I had on hand. I was in a nasty situation with my response to meds and ECT was offering hope. You never know until you try it, right? Now, I'm in a bad way again but there really isn't out there to try any longer.

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 20:33:50

In reply to Re: ECT response rate BGB, posted by Bob on July 5, 2008, at 20:04:17

>Ok, so maybe ECT didn't exacerbate Hemingway's condition. On the other hand, it definitely could have.

I agree with you, although I would go as far as to say that ECT definitely did exacerbate whatever conditions Hemingway had. It is possible that it could be that only the ECT caused him to kill himself; we just don't know one way or another as far as that's concerned.

I think that Hemingway was an extremely improper candidate for ECT in the first place, and that a responsible psychiatrist would not have prescribed it for him. I think that it's vital to have a super-thorough physical examination before ECT is performed, to avoid ending up like Hemingway. ECT is certainly not for everyone and has to be prescribed carefully and sparingly.

I'm very sorry to hear your story; it's always tragic when someone seeks treatment for a horrible and debilitating illness and actually ends up worse for it. I wish you the best, and would encourage you to look into rTMS and, since you mentioned VNS, Deep Brain Stimulation. There are DBS studies recruiting for patients, and they are reserved for individuals like yourself who have failed both medication and ECT therapy. If you are interested, you can find out more about this new and promising treatment by going to www.clinicaltrials.gov and searching for "deep brain stimulation". Of course, like any brain surgery, it carries its own set of risks.

Best of luck to you.

 

Re: ECT response rate Bob

Posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2008, at 20:34:09

In reply to Re: ECT response rate BGB, posted by Bob on July 5, 2008, at 20:04:17

Bob that is horrible what are you going to do any plan with your pdoc? Love Phillipa

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by linkadge on July 6, 2008, at 12:44:09

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by BGB on July 5, 2008, at 18:31:12

>was most likely treated for his symptom, >depression, rather than his true illness as it >was unknown to his physicians at the time. While >no autopsy was done at his time of death due to >his family's request, the disease is genetic and >runs rampant in his family. It is extremely >likely (although not confirmed) that he had the >disease, which would explain why his ECT >treatments failed.

That is a possability but I think the example is still a valid one. The point I was trying to make is that (for whatever reason) ECT often does not work yet can still leave the patient with the prospect of long term brain damage. People seem to restrict the deficits to memory. In animal models, ECT causes glutamatergic excitotoxicity.
It has the capacity to affect the operation of the enture brain. Some of the latest research on epilepsy shows how critical it is for brain health to get a prompt control of seizures. History of uncontroled seizures in epilepsy is positively correlated with cogniative deficits and cell loss. The long term and deleterious effects of seizures are well accepted. You basically see the same types of problems in epilepsy. Memory loss, hippocampal/temporal lobe damage, learning deficits, excitotoxicity, glial pathologies etc. The type of research poses a inconsistency that neurologists seem to be the most sensitive to.


Depression is a disorder with very heterogenious origins and we still don't really have any useful diagnositic predictors of ECT success. So, I really don't think it matters whether or not there is an identifyable reason for ECT failure. The point is that it doesn't always work.

>Heart disease is also known to cause depressive >symptoms, and it is documented that Hemingway >had high blood pressure, extremely high >cholesterol levels, and severe aortal >inflammation.

Heart disease is highly comorbid with depressive disorders.

>Hemingway also survived not one but TWO plane >crashes, causing trauma to his head and crushing >his vertebrae, among other very serious >injuries. His head injuries were so severe that >he lost his vision and hearing on his left side >for a period of time.

Stress is a precipitating factor in many depressive illnesses.

>Such severe trauma to the brain could not only >explain his depression, it could also explain >his memory loss during ECT.

>Patients with severe head trauma are known to >experience greater memory loss with ECT than >typical patients.

ECT itself is a severe head trauma.

>Additionally, it is known that Hemingway was a >very heavy drinker his entire life, and became a >raging alcoholic in his final years. Not only >can alcoholism cause depression, but heavy >drinking is contraindicated with ECT treatment. >This could have played a HUGE role in his memory >loss.

Its easy to speculate. Depression can also cause alcoholism. Was he drinking in the waiting room or something?

>Furthermore, it is well accepted by physicians >that memory loss often reverses itself in the >days and weeks after ECT in many patients.

Some of more recent (and more comprehenisve) studies of pre and post ECT cognitive abilities do not suggest that the effects do fully "reverse themselves"

>Hemingway killed himself only a few days after >his last ECT treatment.

Obviously it was not lifting his depression.

>There are far too many extenuating circumstances >to proclaim that ECT caused Hemingway's death, >especially when you consider that his father, >two of his siblings, and his granddaughter all >took their own life.

I guess the bottom line is that patients should have a routene test for this iron overload disorder before having ECT, but they don't! Thats my point. Our understanding of why certain people are so depressed and refractory very ill defined.
Hemmingway was probably led to believe that ECT was his last option.

>he was far too sick at the time to be able to >make clear and well-thought-out statements.

Exactly.

>I'm sure that he did feel as though ECT killed >him,

Well it certainly didn't save him.

Linkadge

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by linkadge on July 6, 2008, at 13:03:22

In reply to Re: ECT response rate BGB, posted by Bob on July 5, 2008, at 20:04:17

I just suggest getting a second opinion before having ECT.

There are really a number of options or combinations that most patients have not tried.

Some patients do really well, for instance, with psychostimulant augmentation. There are some (old school) doctors who are more comfortable administering ECT then considering psychostimulant augmentation!

The risks of stimulants are likely less than those of ECT. So long as they're not abused the worst they generally do is produce tollerance.

In my 3rd year of university, one doctor was really pushing ECT since I had "tried everything". Before going through with it, another doctor suggested methyphenidate augmentation.

Now sure, I got myself somewhat hooked on a dose of ritalin that slowly escalated over 6 months, but the point is that it *really* got me out of an extrordinarily deep place and very quickly.

Was it a long term solution, no, but neither is ECT.

Opiates are also other good options. They're not permanant solutions, but they can provide relief that with judicious dosing can last months.

I'd even (personally) look to use a low dose of Ketamine the risks are likely still less than with ECT.

I am just supristed how some doctors jump to ECT without really exploring all other options.

Linkadge

 

Re: ECT response rate Phillipa

Posted by Bob on July 6, 2008, at 20:29:54

In reply to Re: ECT response rate Bob, posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2008, at 20:34:09

> Bob that is horrible what are you going to do any plan with your pdoc? Love Phillipa

That's the sixty-four million dollar question; what to do. My doctor and I, as well as other expert doctors who have been consulted have little to offer at this point outside of another med trial. That's why ECT was tried.

I'm looking into DBS, but have already been rejected from one trial for it. VNS seems to have fallen off the map and rTMS scares me because it seems to activating. I need to try and avoid something like ECT which opens the floodgates with not ability to attentuate the effects or see what's coming. In the meantime of course, I'm still playing musical meds.

 

Re: ECT response rate Bob

Posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2008, at 21:00:41

In reply to Re: ECT response rate Phillipa, posted by Bob on July 6, 2008, at 20:29:54

I don't know what to say other than stay safe and somewhere there will be a combo that works for you. And be optimistic as hard as it is. A friend I write with was going to apply for DBS trial and miracle or miracles Requip worked for him with some lithium, zyprexa, and desipramine I believe. Love Phillipa

 

Re: ECT response rate (nm)

Posted by Zeba on July 6, 2008, at 21:53:42

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by linkadge on July 6, 2008, at 13:03:22

 

Re: ECT response rate

Posted by Zeba on July 6, 2008, at 21:57:20

In reply to Re: ECT response rate (nm), posted by Zeba on July 6, 2008, at 21:53:42

Sorry; I wrote out a long post and hit the wrong button. I can't remember all I said, and so I will leave it alone for now. I agree with linkadge with his comments, and I agree that I did not realize the deficits right away. It was weeks after I stopped that I realized the damage. Some things have improved, but a lot has not.

 

Re: ECT response rate Zeba

Posted by Bob on July 6, 2008, at 23:04:29

In reply to Re: ECT response rate, posted by Zeba on July 6, 2008, at 21:57:20

> Sorry; I wrote out a long post and hit the wrong button. I can't remember all I said, and so I will leave it alone for now. I agree with linkadge with his comments, and I agree that I did not realize the deficits right away. It was weeks after I stopped that I realized the damage. Some things have improved, but a lot has not.

Same for me. As the treatments went on, a lot of serious negatives were not really evident, or were not fully realized for what they were. Then, a few weeks after the final treatment, all hell broke loose.

I too agree with much that linkadge has said. He has made some excellent points.


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