Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 838066

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!

Posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

Hi all

This thread has come about from my brother (also BP II/NOS) eating a certain brand of natural yoghurt... 'Yeo Valley thick and creamy probiotic yoghurt' to be precise.

I'm not sure why he bought it in the first place, but he rang me after one pot and said how much better he felt. A marked imporovement in fact. 5 days on, still the same effect, one pot a day I believe.

I set about investigating what would do this from a yoghurt?? First off I thought it may have a high concentrate of Omegas or Flaxseed - nothing on the packaging or in Google.

So, just out of curiosity I Googled 'probiotic bipolar' and masses of articles, including clinical trials came up! This is something I'd never heard of, and I think neither had you guys??

Obviously I searched for Probiotics in tablet form and came across 'Acidophilus', a pure Probiotic with something like 10 billion live bacteria!

Here is a site that carries the product:

http://www.naturesbest.co.uk/Probiotics-C85G/

I'd like to hear if anyone else has had any experience with this, or has read/heard anything about it? I'd be interested to know more...

Thanks for reading!

Gary

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!

Posted by Sky Brite Line on July 4, 2008, at 22:18:29

In reply to PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

Vitamen C at high doses is a good antipsychotic/mood staiblizer.

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!! garylee

Posted by SLS on July 5, 2008, at 4:55:47

In reply to PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

Hi Gary.

Thank you for posting this. I had never heard of using probiotics for treating depressive disorders.

> I'd like to hear if anyone else has had any experience with this, or has read/heard anything about it? I'd be interested to know more...

Me too. I think your first thought regarding omega oils was a good one. My first thought is that these probiotics keep harmful and inflammation-producing bacteria in check. Inflammation and the production of too much cytokine has been implicated in depression.


- Scott

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 8:32:32

In reply to PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

I too get benifit from probiotic yogurt. It really seems to help my depression.

Linkadge

 

a link to research

Posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 8:34:44

In reply to Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!! garylee, posted by SLS on July 5, 2008, at 4:55:47

Actually, there is documentation of the use of probiotics for depression.


See the following.

http://biopsychiatry.com/depression/bacteria.html

Linkadge

 

Re: a link to research

Posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2008, at 12:41:59

In reply to a link to research, posted by linkadge on July 5, 2008, at 8:34:44

So the new yougurt with the probiotics is that the one or lactobacillus? Phillipa

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!

Posted by bleauberry on July 5, 2008, at 19:37:11

In reply to PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

My integrative MD has had several patients improve significantly in psychiatric symptoms, accidentally, with either antibiotics or probiotics. Either way, there is a clear hint that somehow the immune system is tied into what happens in the brain and emotions. I have read in various places on the web how the immune system is tied in with psychiatry, and how probiotics directly impact the immune system. Antibiotics also. Depends on what the underlying immune malfunction is, or what the hidden microscopic invader is. Certain probiotics are good at displacing and reducing bad bugs, such as candida. Candida overgrowth can sure make one lethargic and depressed. And I am sure there are other bad bugs knocked down by heavy doses of probiotics.

10 billion in a dose, by the way, is rather small. You can buy over the counter ones with 50 billion that have like 14 different strains in them. A book to treat Amalgam Illness says much higher doses are needed than what is on the bottle. More importantly, as maybe was accidentally discovered when this thread was started, is the particular strain of probiotic.

Could also maybe be just the huge amount of protein intake from all that yogurt, but I doubt it. The immune system makes more sense to me. Though a scientific body of evidence is in its infancy, there is a good deal already accumulated. I know of three MD sponsored protocols that address psychiatry through the immune system. One is probiotic, the other two are antibiotic.

I could not handle the side effects of the antibiotic Doxycyline. It was killing me with weight loss and I had no weight to lose. But, I had the most remarkable complete short lived remission on it, after two weeks of feeling more depressed on it. That stuff did something very good to my immune system and my psychiatric standing, after a very rough go of killing bunchs of critters. That doesn't feel good. Once they are under control and the immune system gets back into swing, yeah.

Immune system, chronic hidden infections, and psychiatry? Definitely, as far as I am concerned. Do probiotics fit into that? Definitely, as far as I am concerned. Though I must admit 50 billion a day for a month or so didn't do anything for me except eliminate gas. Maybe I need to try that yogurt! :-)

 

How much is a pot of yogurt?

Posted by bleauberry on July 5, 2008, at 19:40:10

In reply to PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

I don't know how much a "pot" of yogurt is? I mean, most people it a little tub that is maybe a half a pint, a pint? Or you can buy a quart size to last a week maybe. But I've never heard of a portion called a pot. How much is that?

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!

Posted by SLS on July 6, 2008, at 5:39:53

In reply to Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by bleauberry on July 5, 2008, at 19:37:11

> I could not handle the side effects of the antibiotic Doxycyline. It was killing me with weight loss and I had no weight to lose. But, I had the most remarkable complete short lived remission on it, after two weeks of feeling more depressed on it.

Yup. That's how it happens. There are often waves of worsened depression in the beginning. This is actually a good sign. It takes 2-3 months to see sustained results.


- Scott

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ TH

Posted by blueboy on July 6, 2008, at 7:26:52

In reply to PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by garylee on July 4, 2008, at 20:04:18

I'm sorry to be the party pooper, but this has all the earmarkings of a fad with no basis in science.

The "research" is terrible, little more than a hypothesis and an uncontrolled elementary experiment. The "research" that "proved" Vitamin C cures the common cold was considerably more extensive and was eventually proven baseless.

On the other hand, at least some types of probiotics have been shown to have beneficial effects. There's certainly no reason not to eat a serving of yoghurt every day (or even a great deal of it, other than the possible saturated fat), and some cultures who eat a lot of yoghurt appear to enjoy long lives.

I personally doubt it has any effect on depression. (Although, in all seriousness, I would be willing to bet that a good f*rt gives you a little shot of serotonin.)

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ TH blueboy

Posted by bleauberry on July 6, 2008, at 18:54:38

In reply to Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ TH, posted by blueboy on July 6, 2008, at 7:26:52

> I'm sorry to be the party pooper, but this has all the earmarkings of a fad with no basis in science.
>

Maybe so, maybe not. But I bet 50 years from now the SSRIs will have been a fad that once was.

Drug research is not exactly stellar. They make it appear so in abstracts. Look closely at details of full reports, and at the unpublished reports not usually seen, and it is a different picture. Personally, I don't go by research because it has never worked for me. Besides, when you graduate to pbabble, you are kind of past the point of being treated by simple flowcharts. You kind of have to go on instinct, intuition, untested ideas, and such. Even the best psychiatry has to offer is a guessing game.

I believe in functional medicine. That is, every person is biologically unique, and all the bodily functions are tied together...immune, HPA axis, hormones, neurotransmitters.

I am with you in that I sort of wonder about someone getting better on yogurt. But gosh, I've seen things like it happen before, so I do have an open mind to accept it at face value and be happy for the person. Whether it was something as simple as magnesium, B6+zinc, probiotics, antibiotics, lithium, or whatever...these things totally outside the psych arena have indeed cured people where the best psychiatry had to offer failed.

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? bleauberry

Posted by mknight on July 9, 2008, at 16:38:37

In reply to Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ THIS!!, posted by bleauberry on July 5, 2008, at 19:37:11

After 8 years of feeling stoned, spacey, and fatigued, I went to the hospital with an intestinal infection. I was given IV Cipro and Flagyl for 4 days. All of my health problems disappeared for 5 months. Then they slowly came back until I was once again incapacitated. 2 years later I was in the same hospital with a burst appendix. I was put on the same IV antibiotics. Once again all health problems were gone for 5 months. No doctor or health board has ever been able to explain this. This thread is the first one that has addressed this situation. I have now been ill for 14 years, taken 6 antidepressants and 2 stimulants in varying combinations, tried amino acids, herbs, anything you can think of, seen 20 different doctors, nothing.

 

Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ TH blueboy

Posted by yxibow on July 10, 2008, at 2:25:16

In reply to Re: PROBIOTICS FOR BIPOLAR? - SLS, AND ALL READ TH, posted by blueboy on July 6, 2008, at 7:26:52

> I'm sorry to be the party pooper, but this has all the earmarkings of a fad with no basis in science.
>
> The "research" is terrible, little more than a hypothesis and an uncontrolled elementary experiment. The "research" that "proved" Vitamin C cures the common cold was considerably more extensive and was eventually proven baseless.

I have to agree as well -- I mean Linus Pauling was an intelligent fellow and people still take large doses of Vitamin C (which after a certain point just pees out anyhow, and after a certain point is probably mildly toxic at least), but there's no real large double blind studies about the "common cold".

And remember, it's called common for a reason -- the common cold can be caused by a host, probably 50 or more viruses, some of which we don't know -- rhinoviruses in the winter often, and coronaviruses in the summer.

It is said that the average person gets up to 5 infectious diseases a year, some not even realized or terribly long lasting.

There may be some minor truth, but again, not much double blind testing that I know of, that zinc may possibly lessen the course of a cold by a day, and this even has a thin line of truth. Yes, sure I go ahead and take the zinc lozenges anyhow sometimes -- in small amounts its not toxic to the body, and who knows, maybe it will help hair growth in men as selenium (in small amounts, it is a toxic element and forms toxic compounds as well in larger amounts) has been touted.


> On the other hand, at least some types of probiotics have been shown to have beneficial effects. There's certainly no reason not to eat a serving of yoghurt every day (or even a great deal of it, other than the possible saturated fat), and some cultures who eat a lot of yoghurt appear to enjoy long lives.

Nothing wrong with yogurt, its been around for millenia, and its available in goat and soy and for all I know yak and other forms.


> I personally doubt it has any effect on depression. (Although, in all seriousness, I would be willing to bet that a good f*rt gives you a little shot of serotonin.)

Or adds some methane to greenhouse gasses. :) But yes, the largest concentration of serotonin receptors is not in the brain -- its in the gut. That's why when SSRIs and other agents brush by and agonize 5HT3, people get nauseated, at least temporarily until they adjust.


Ginger has some small studies that some of its compounds may be a mild 5HT3 blockade and is one reason why people find (true, not flavored) ginger ale a remedy, as the *trons (ondansetron, etc) are frightfully expensive (they're 5HT3 blockade agents for chemotherapy that replace potentially more risky phenothiazines for the nausea that accompanies those regimes).

-- tidings

Jay


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