Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 835336

Shown: posts 21 to 45 of 67. Go back in thread:

 

Re: ))Horned One » psychobot5000

Posted by Marty on June 28, 2008, at 20:32:57

In reply to Re: ))Horned One, posted by psychobot5000 on June 28, 2008, at 17:10:51


Wow. It's the first time I see so many people at once saying Tianeptine really works for them :D

"The few, the proud, the Tianeptined !"

Seriously, it seems to be one of the most exclusive club here. I hope to stay lucky enough to stay in that club as long as I need it.

BTW, what effects coffee is having on you guys ? (With and Without Tianeptine) just wondering if it help your mood ...

/\/\arty

 

Re: ))Horned One » Marty

Posted by psychobot5000 on June 29, 2008, at 11:48:20

In reply to Re: ))Horned One » psychobot5000, posted by Marty on June 28, 2008, at 20:32:57

>
> Wow. It's the first time I see so many people at once saying Tianeptine really works for them :D

>
> Seriously, it seems to be one of the most exclusive club here. I hope to stay lucky enough to stay in that club as long as I need it.
>

Been on it for years now, and it still works.

> BTW, what effects coffee is having on you guys ? (With and Without Tianeptine) just wondering if it help your mood ...
>
> /\/\arty

Coffee makes me jittery - too much stimulation. I prefer tea, which has some mild anti-anxiety chemicals to sort of balance the stimulants. Either way, coffee or tea, tianeptine makes it a little easier to take (for me), because of its anxiolytic qualities.

 

Re: That's very interesting, considering...

Posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:09:53

In reply to That's very interesting, considering... » linkadge, posted by Racer on June 19, 2008, at 9:46:04

Oh its a conspiracy Racer. For sure. The government and FDA are determined to prevent any drug that actually enhances the libido in any way (not just whether a man can get it up mind you) from making it to market here. They will say and do anything to prevent that. Tianeptine was developed by Survector after their original creation Amineptine was shot down once it was discovered that women were often having spontaneous orgasms while taking it (no joke). The FDA disapproved the drug citing the possibility that it would promote drug-seeking behavior. Of course, they also tried to say there were possible dangers to the heart as well, which is fascinating since I can find NO mention of that problem actually occurring in any of the information I have found about the drug. Enter Tianeptine......after being shot down with Amineptine, Survector developed Tianeptine and applied for the right to manufacture and market it here. But heavens, this drug has also been known to increase sexual desire, particularly in women, although it is not as potent as the originating drug, Amineptine. "Oh no", says Mr. FDA man. Disapproved. This might encourage dependency as well (note...no evidence of such, just the FDA stating it might be so).

By the way, if a drug works to improve the quality of life that all of us experience, I do believe that we are all going to want it. So, if that is drug-seeking behavior, then yes, that will occur. And the problem is...........

 

Re: That's very interesting, considering...

Posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:58:06

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering..., posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:09:53

Shoot. Meant to say Servier. Don't know why I typed Survector. ARGGGHHH! I need brain help!

 

The truth about Tianeptine (Stablon) » WickedGirl

Posted by Marty on June 30, 2008, at 17:31:10

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering..., posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:09:53

> Oh its a conspiracy Racer. For sure. The >government and FDA are determined to prevent any >drug that actually enhances the libido in any >way (not just whether a man can get it up mind >you) from making it to market here. They will >say and do anything to prevent that.

I don't know if 'conspiracy' is the good term to describe what happened but... Servier, the maker of Amineptine and Tianeptine (note: SURVECTOR is the trademark name of Amineptine, not the maker name), wanted to market Tianeptine (Stablon) for other disorder than depression/anxiety at the beginning. It was that good for the first label they choose and wasn't approvable for that in any decent country. By the time they choose to sell it for depression/anxiety (end 80's) their PATENT WAS EXPIRED and so there was little money to be made with it in the USA especially considering the money it takes to play the FDA games (clinical trials etc). What makes look the whole thing like a conspiracy is that it's TRUE that the FDA wasn't interested in having this drug approved: FDA is not only interested in protecting the health of the Americans, they are also interested in PROTECTING THE US MARKET AND THE AMERICAN PLAYER IN THIS MARKET. Servier is an european bigpharm company, not an American one. The fact is that the FDA WOULD ALLOW Tianeptine to be approve here, BUT NOT BEFORE ANOTHER GOOD TIANEPTINE-LIKE (SSRE?) antidepressant MADE IN USA got approved and marketed. One of the MANY example of this trend is PROZAC which has been, is and will always be labeled as the FIRST SSRI. Well the fact is that there were many other SSRIs before PROZAC but there were not MADE IN USA and so they didn't approved them UNTIL they got their first one approved.. All American Prozac. It's a form of (Market) PROTECTIONISM. For the record: Americans then was targetting norepinephine and NOT serotonin. Europeans was the one targeting serotonin and Americans was making fun of them and are sometimes doing even today; they consider Europeans science calibre to be inferior to theirs.

So we can conclude the FDA was quite happy to NOT have to do ANYTHING in order to protect their market against Tianeptine: Servier shoot themself in the foot because of the time they took to cash on their patents in the USA. After that the cost of entry to market in the USA (the FDA $$$ game of approval) was enough to discourage Servier to EVEN TRY SERIOUSLY. Game Over.


>Tianeptine was developed by Survector after >their original creation Amineptine was shot down >once it was discovered that women were often >having spontaneous orgasms while taking it (no >joke).

This is not even one of the main reasons Amineptine (Survector) was withdraw from the market around the WORLD. MANY meds, (even SSRIs!) has this side effect for some woman. Tianeptine wasn't inducing this RARE side effect more often than any other.


> The FDA disapproved the drug citing the >possibility that it would promote drug-seeking >behavior.

'Drug-Seeking' behaviour IS the main reason why it was withdraw. It is a fact Amineptine was addictive, but it was wrong to withdraw it totaly just like it would be wrong to withdraw the benzos and all other FDA Scheduled drugs. It should have been Scheduled so that a limited numbers of treatment resistant patient could benefit from it. When someone is depressed and had never tried any AD before then Amineptine would have been a unacceptable risk from a medical practionner point of view, BUT is someone else is depressed AND FAILED SEVERAL AD TRIALS ETC... then it becomes a calculated and acceptable risk : Chances of suicide > Chances of 'evil drug-seeking behaviours'.

> Enter Tianeptine......after being shot down >with Amineptine, Survector developed Tianeptine >and applied for the right to manufacture and >market it here. But heavens, this drug has also >been known to increase sexual desire, >particularly in women, although it is not as >potent as the originating drug, Amineptine. "Oh >no", says Mr. FDA man. Disapproved. This might >encourage dependency as well (note...no evidence >of such, just the FDA stating it might be so).

There's evidences Tianeptine is potentially addictive FOR PEOPLE UNDER 25. What about labelling it "PROHIBITED FOR PEOPLE UNDER 25" then ? That said, the whole thing isn't about libido/orgasmic effects. What about the "Barbie Drug" that is coming ? supposed to give us a good tan, full of libido and makes us loose weight ? You think the FDA wouldn't approve it ? Possible.

> By the way, if a drug works to improve the >quality of life that all of us experience, I do >believe that we are all going to want it. So, if >that is drug-seeking behavior, then yes, that >will occur. And the problem is...........

............is that it's not the point. drug-seeking behaviours (dependancy) isn't the same thing as something that induce desires. Porsches and Ferrari aren't ban because everyone would want one and Porches and Ferrari doesn't possess the ability to BYPASS our jugement/rational faculties and REWIRED our brains to be obsess by them to the point of causing trouble to ourself and others. Got my point ?


Did you tried Tineptine ? If so what do you think of it ? any orgasms ? ;)


/\/\arty

keywords: FDA, Tianeptine, Stablon, approval, US, Canada, the history of tianeptine, amineptine.

 

Re: That's very interesting, considering... » WickedGirl

Posted by Marty on June 30, 2008, at 17:33:43

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering..., posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:58:06

> Shoot. Meant to say Servier. Don't know why I typed Survector. ARGGGHHH! I need brain help!

I heard ORGASMS was good for womans memory ;)
In fact I think that's the reason woman always remember me. XD

Tried Nootropics ?

/\/\arty

 

Re: The truth about Tianeptine (Stablon)

Posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 18:43:29

In reply to The truth about Tianeptine (Stablon) » WickedGirl, posted by Marty on June 30, 2008, at 17:31:10

ROTFLMAO Marty!!! Any orgasms.....teeheehee.

OK Mr. Grouchy (kidding), you have explained several issues with Amineptine way better than I could (hence my desire for Tianeptine). However, I will tell you right now that I know ZERO women (myself included) who have any increase in desire on SSRI's or SNRI's thank you very much. I have also read only about women who all had the same experience as me on these drugs....the complete and permanent death of the desire for sex. I have not taken an anti-depressant (other than a one day attempt at Cymbalta) since 1997, and I have never regained my sex drive in all those intervening years. I used to be quite frisky....took Prozac (amongst others) and the sex drive was dead in a week. Yes, I know it is supposed to take six weeks to have an effect. Well not with me. So boo-hoo....I have lost my sex drive, and I wouldn't mind something to make me a raving sex fiend once in a while instead of a cold, dead fish.

You most definitely stated more of the facts in general than I did, but I also have done plenty of reading where the authors made some very good cases about why Amineptine was not brought to this country and then Tianeptine. Neither is an SSRI, so the FDA did not need to wait until we came up with our own at all before approving one of the Servier drugs. They just didn't want to. As a woman in this country, I have some significant insight into how we are treated by the predominantly male medical establishment. You would think a bunch of horny women running around would be a good thing, but from I have read, and from the blatant, in-my-face lying done to me by the male doctors (oh no...there isn't any sexual dysfunction...in fact this may increase your libido), that is the last thing the medical community and the FDA want. Now, I seriously doubt that all women would end up like that from Amineptine, but we will never know...now will we. <pout, pout>

Anyway, thank you for the private message as well. I will keep you informed, and I look forward to reading more about your thoughts here. ;P

 

Re: That's very interesting, considering...

Posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 18:46:24

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering... » WickedGirl, posted by Marty on June 30, 2008, at 17:33:43

Teehee again. You know...I tried Paracetam for a while, and I swear it made me bitchy (ok, ok bitchier). I was really grouchy onit, so I don't remember the libido thing. I take a lot of supps on a regular basis though. I have even tried things like Tribulus, Horny Goat Weed, Damiana, Maca, etc. No dice. Adderall makes the sex drive go up, but I don't want to take that permanently. Besides, the longer you take it, the more the tolerance builds and it stops working the same anyway.

 

Re: That's very interesting, considering... » WickedGirl

Posted by Sigismund on June 30, 2008, at 23:06:49

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering..., posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:09:53

I'm hoping tianeptine has just enough side and adverse effects to pass muster.

 

Re: That's very interesting, considering... » WickedGirl

Posted by Molybdenum on July 3, 2008, at 6:06:57

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering..., posted by WickedGirl on June 30, 2008, at 16:09:53

> Oh its a conspiracy Racer. For sure. The government and FDA are determined to prevent any drug that actually enhances the libido in any way (not just whether a man can get it up mind you) from making it to market here. They will say and do anything to prevent that.

You're spot-on WickedGirl, and here's proof:

In honour of the great & now unfortunately dead Kurt Vonnegut, here's a quote from his story "Welcome To The Monkey House" that I hope you will enjoy:) :

"...ethical birth-control pills, the only legal form of birth control, made people numb from the waist down.

Most men said their bottom halves felt like cold iron or balsa wood. Most women said their bottom halves felt like wet cotton or stale ginger ale. The pills were so effective that you could blindfold a man who had taken one, tell him to recite the Gettysburg Address, kick him in the balls while he was doing it, and he wouldn't miss a syllable.

The pills were ethical because they didn't interfere with a persons ability to reproduce, which would have been unnatural and immoral. All the pills did was take every bit of pleasure out of sex.

Thus did science and morals go hand in hand."

 

Tianeptine + Desipramine

Posted by satsumas on July 3, 2008, at 13:35:29

In reply to Re: That's very interesting, considering... » WickedGirl, posted by Molybdenum on July 3, 2008, at 6:06:57

great thread. I wanted to try tianeptine but my doctor suggested desipramine first as he hadn't had much experience with tianeptine and said that a well known bipolar researcher at Stanford wasn't all that enthused about tianeptine's efficacy in BP depression.

i'm now in the process of tapering up on desipramine (at 75, dr says eventually i should be at 125 or 150) and going down from effexor (at 112.5, coming off from 300, where I finally felt good for the first time in 2 years, but had slight hypomania and strong cravings and apathy).

Where I am right now is feeling pretty blah, but with a bit more energy (assume that's desipramine) but i don't feel the "okayness" and lack of obsessive thoughts, and optimism and excitement and capcity for pleasure that I did when effexor was at 300 (which i'm assuming was from the serotonin effects).

MY QUESTION is: Is it OK to take desipramine with tianeptine? My Dr. hinted that they both are effectively doing the "same thing" with tianeptine increasing norep via its decrease of serotonin, but i'm not so sure about that. Does anyone have any experience with this combo?

I feel like I definitely need something for serotonin, but don't want to go the MAOI route, and i am sick of the SSRIs, and in fact any serotonin reuptake mechanism (even a serotonin based TCA).

Thanks
Satsuma

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine

Posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 15:14:00

In reply to Tianeptine + Desipramine, posted by satsumas on July 3, 2008, at 13:35:29

I am interested in this question too because I will probably have to switch to lofepramine (metabolizes into desipramine) when I run out of tianeptine.

>I wanted to try tianeptine but my doctor suggested desipramine first as he hadn't had much experience with tianeptine and said that a well known bipolar researcher at Stanford wasn't all that enthused about tianeptine's efficacy in BP depression.

I have bipolar I and tianeptine has worked for me. It's the only antidepressant that has worked consistently.

>Is it OK to take desipramine with tianeptine?

Yes, I think so. There isn't a great deal of information about potential interactions with tianeptine though.

>y Dr. hinted that they both are effectively doing the "same thing" with tianeptine increasing norep via its decrease of serotonin, but i'm not so sure about that.

I don't think so. It doesn't feel like a nordarenergic drug in any way to me. I suspect he just doesn't want you to take tianeptine, period.

>Does anyone have any experience with this combo?

No, but I did take it with reboxetine with awful results, but that turned out to be just the reboxetine.

Q (Formerly Horned One)

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine

Posted by Marty on July 3, 2008, at 16:01:39

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine, posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 15:14:00

> I am interested in this question too because I will probably have to switch to lofepramine (metabolizes into desipramine) when I run out of tianeptine.

I don't get it. Why would you run out of Tianeptine ?


/\/\arty

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Marty

Posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 16:49:20

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine, posted by Marty on July 3, 2008, at 16:01:39

Because obviously I will run out when I've taken the last of the tablets. I don't have an indefinite supply. It's too expensive for me to keep on buying it long term, so I'll have to try an alternative that's available on prescription. Tianeptine was only a stopgap to help cover me until I got a new consultant.

Q

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Quintal

Posted by Marty on July 3, 2008, at 16:54:02

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Marty, posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 16:49:20

> Because obviously I will run out when I've taken the last of the tablets. I don't have an indefinite supply. It's too expensive for me to keep on buying it long term, so I'll have to try an alternative that's available on prescription. Tianeptine was only a stopgap to help cover me until I got a new consultant.


Ok but how many AD did you try so far ?

/\/\arty

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Marty

Posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 17:07:34

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Quintal, posted by Marty on July 3, 2008, at 16:54:02

Paroxetine
Fluvoxamine
Fluoxetine
Sertraline
Citalopram
Escitalopram
Venlafaxine

Mirtazapine
Dothiepin
Imipramine
Melitracen
Reboxetine

Moclobemide
Selegiline
Isocarboxazid
Tranylcypromine

I think that's them all. So, practically everything in the book bar Nardil.

Q

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Quintal

Posted by Marty on July 3, 2008, at 17:52:50

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Marty, posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 17:07:34

After more than 15 ADs you finally found something that's working for you and you're thinking about switching again for "more of the same" of what didn't work the FIRST 16 TIMES ?!!

Sorry, but I'm shocked. I guess you are, like many others here including me, living with very little money for not having the choice to loose the only thing that has worked for you after so much suffering. I know because I, for one, would prefer not having a TV/Cable/Internet/Car etc than not having the money for HAVING MY BRAIN/LIFE BACK !

How much does Tianeptine cost you per month ?
Don't be shy to NOT answer the following questions as it's personnal: how old are you ? m or f ? where in the world are you living in ?

Feel free to babblemail me if you prefer.

If I was Bill Gate or something I would, by empathy, send you a truck loaded of this sugar coated wonder... but I'm so broken that I, too, having difficulty paying for it myself.


/\/\arty

> Paroxetine
> Fluvoxamine
> Fluoxetine
> Sertraline
> Citalopram
> Escitalopram
> Venlafaxine
>
> Mirtazapine
> Dothiepin
> Imipramine
> Melitracen
> Reboxetine
>
> Moclobemide
> Selegiline
> Isocarboxazid
> Tranylcypromine
>
> I think that's them all. So, practically everything in the book bar Nardil.
>
> Q

 

Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine

Posted by Quintal on July 4, 2008, at 6:59:59

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Quintal, posted by Marty on July 3, 2008, at 17:52:50

Dothiepin and tranylcypromine both worked for me. On that basis I'm going to try lofepramine first because it's the TCA with the mildest side effects. Tianeptine doesn't do anything for my energy and motivation. I still lie in bed for hours every morning because I'm afraid of/ too tired to get up and face the day, so I'm hoping the noradrenergic effect of lofepramine will help with that. If lofepramine fails I will probably go back to Parnate. Alternatively I may try adding tianeptine to lofepramine for a while.

I'm male and I live in the UK. Tianeptine costs me around £72 for three weeks supply. As I already said, I will ask my doctor if there is a way of importing it on the NHS, but I very much doubt it. I've taken tianptine many times in the past and can live without it. It was mainly to get me out of a severe depressive episode this time. I'll probably have to limit myself to short courses when I'm very depressed if nothing else works.

Q

 

Re: Tianeptine » Quintal

Posted by psychobot5000 on July 7, 2008, at 13:13:06

In reply to Re: Tianeptine + Desipramine » Marty, posted by Quintal on July 3, 2008, at 17:07:34

> Paroxetine
> Fluvoxamine
> Fluoxetine
> Sertraline
> Citalopram
> Escitalopram
> Venlafaxine
>
> Mirtazapine
> Dothiepin
> Imipramine
> Melitracen
> Reboxetine
>
> Moclobemide
> Selegiline
> Isocarboxazid
> Tranylcypromine
>
> I think that's them all. So, practically everything in the book bar Nardil.
>
> Q


Have you considered trying a dopamine agonist (i.e. pramipexole or requip)? I have a similar medication history, and pramipexole was recommended to me by a depression/anxiety specialist.

I do know a cheap tianeptine source - it (thankfully) allowed me to fit tianeptine into my budget. If anyone's curious about it, feel free to babblemail me - I'd be happy to provide the details to other sufferers.

Best,
Psychbot

 

Re: Tianeptine » psychobot5000

Posted by satsumas on July 7, 2008, at 13:27:07

In reply to Re: Tianeptine » Quintal, posted by psychobot5000 on July 7, 2008, at 13:13:06

can you talk about your experiences with tianeptine? how you felt when you started, your current dose, subjective experiences, comparisions with other drugs, and whether you feel it is actually working "serotoningenically" (e.g., reducing obsessive thoughts, inducing optimism, self-esteem, etc.)?

also, are you just using it with pramipexole right now?

 

Re: Tianeptine » satsumas

Posted by psychobot5000 on July 7, 2008, at 15:00:57

In reply to Re: Tianeptine » psychobot5000, posted by satsumas on July 7, 2008, at 13:27:07

> can you talk about your experiences with tianeptine? how you felt when you started, your current dose, subjective experiences, comparisions with other drugs, and whether you feel it is actually working "serotoningenically" (e.g., reducing obsessive thoughts, inducing optimism, self-esteem, etc.)?
>
> also, are you just using it with pramipexole right now?

I take it alone, actually. The doc I regularly see is not particularly inclined to experimental treatments like pramipexole, and I thought the side-effects would likely be too burdensome.

As for whether it's working 'serotonergically,' I don't really believe so. I mean, I imagine its effects on serotonin cause the antidepressant effects, but I think these are changes 'further down the line.' Probably adaptive changes the brain makes - something like that. In my experience noradrenergic drugs, generalized monoamine drugs (MAOis), serotonin-increasing drugs, and the one serotonin-reducing drug all do about the same thing, just with different side-effects. This tells me that the mechanism of action probably isn't serotonin. Also, if I take an SSRI, my serotonin levels increase greatly within an hour or two, but my mood doesn't change for days, weeks, or months. Same for almost all patients.

But as for the specifics you were wondering about, I find tianeptine does reduce obsessive/anxious thinking pretty substantially. It doesn't have a direct effect on self-esteem or optimism, I would say, but lifts my whole mood a modest amount. Those are probably the primary effects I've observed.

 

Re: Tianeptine » psychobot5000

Posted by satsumas on July 7, 2008, at 16:19:55

In reply to Re: Tianeptine » satsumas, posted by psychobot5000 on July 7, 2008, at 15:00:57

Hmm, yeah realize the whole downstream stuff. Thing is, i've always noticed a very quick response to effexor, moving the dose from 225 to 300 within a few days makes a marked difference immediately, for example.

i've definitely noticed for example effexor having very clear self-esteem and anti-obsessive, pacifying qualities, whereas emsam, cymbalta, lamictal, wellbutrin, and (so far) desipramine have not had that affect to such a degree. the other drugs can be activating or pull me out of suicidal depression, but only bringing me back to a blah sort of state.

does tianeptine have any of the SSRI-type side effects, like anhedonia, apathy, and sexual problems in your experience? and what dose do you take, how ong did it take to see a difference?

thanks so much for your help
sat

 

Re: Tianeptine » satsumas

Posted by Marty on July 7, 2008, at 16:35:46

In reply to Re: Tianeptine » psychobot5000, posted by satsumas on July 7, 2008, at 16:19:55

> does tianeptine have any of the SSRI-type side effects, like anhedonia, apathy, and sexual problems in your experience? and what dose do you take, how ong did it take to see a difference?

Tianeptine has been the med with the less side-effects and I took about 25 meds in the last 10 years. Sexual side effect ? ZERO. anhedonia and apathy neither. .. the only thing I felt the first 2 weeks was a strange kind of background anxiety that came and go... then at about the end of week 2 it was over. I really like Tianeptine and I think it's a shame we (in America) don't have this unique AD.

It seems the high majority of the people is following the 12.5mg x 3 per day .. but some go for 12.5mg x 4 per day. Oh.. and there's that woman who took for one year about 3000mg (!!!.. I repeat THREE THOUSAND MGs) per day because she had some addiction problems and was trying to have a buzz out of Tianeptine! .. I guess it's fair to presume that she wasn't feeling 'ahedonia' and 'apathy' on that dosage :P


BTW, I'm VERY sensitive to side effects and that's why I almost tried them all. (minus TCAs which obviously aren't for the side-effect-sensible people like me.. that said I tried the MAOIs but that's another story) ...


/\/\arty

 

Re: Tianeptine » Marty

Posted by satsumas on July 7, 2008, at 16:44:43

In reply to Re: Tianeptine » satsumas, posted by Marty on July 7, 2008, at 16:35:46

can you compare it to S/NRIs like effexor or desipramine (if you've tried it)? As powerful? more/less "serotonin-like" (e.g., reduction of obsessions, positive self-esteem, optimism)?

My dr. is not sure about tianeptine and moved me from effexor to desipramine, but I can most definitely feel the lack of serotonin-related action, so i'm looking for something that works on serotonin system without being a SSRI and i'm not quite willing to do an oral MAOI (Emsam gave me terrible anxiety and made me a little too smart for my own good, to say nothing of the sleep disturbances).

 

Re: Tianeptine » satsumas

Posted by Marty on July 7, 2008, at 17:03:07

In reply to Re: Tianeptine » Marty, posted by satsumas on July 7, 2008, at 16:44:43

> can you compare it to S/NRIs like effexor or desipramine (if you've tried it)? As powerful? more/less "serotonin-like" (e.g., reduction of obsessions, positive self-esteem, optimism)?

Didn't tried Desipramine. For me it doesn't feel like Effexor at all. In fact Effexor wasn't good for me and I was feeling quite strange. It's difficult to compare Tianeptine to an SSRI or any other AD out there. It's not a very strong "feel good" drug in the "pleasurable" sense .. while it doesn't sounds very good in theory in practice you may like to feel normal and not 'too much good' .. normal isn't supposed to feel 'serotonergic' all the time, right ? I enjoy normality for the first time in 10 years .. confidence in myself is overinflated but just well adjusted and my perception of reality isn't abnormally too easy/fantastic/sweet etc.. it's just LIFE .. but the normal and worth living version, not the depression/anxious/psychosis-borderish version and not the everything-is-perfect-and-so-I-dont-care-about-anything serotonergic version which in the long run mostly brings you into ahedonia/apathy .. you can't have the serotonergic effect you describe and seems to like without the ahedonia/apathy catching you back after a while... that's the negative part of the serotonergic reuptake inhibition hack. Life highs feel high because of the lifes low which feel low etc... you can't be always high .. because without some lows the brain adapt itself to make the highs the new lows.


> (Emsam gave me terrible anxiety and made me a little too smart for my own good, to say nothing of the sleep disturbances).

Too smart ? wow.. I see how it can be a bad thing but that sounds like a nice side effect! Actually Tianeptine makes me smarter probably because it reduce (abolish?) all of the attention deficit kind of symptoms.. since I'm on it I'm able to do intellectual stuff I wasn't able to even remotly touch in the last decade. Talk about a perfect self esteem boost :) Can you describe what it was for you to feel smarter on Emsam ? any exemples ? how was it bad for you ? ...


also a little background on your diagnosis could make me think about what could interest (or discourage you) about Tianeptine.

/\/\arty


Go forward in thread:


Show another thread

URL of post in thread:


Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ


[dr. bob] Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD, bob@dr-bob.org

Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.