Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 837675

Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 45. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be

Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 15:30:15

I don't get it as I've cut my valium from 20mg to 15mg a night and now I'm more tired then ever. Makes no sense to me as I thought anxiety would go up?? Anyone have an idea why this could be happening as need to do a lot of things and it's all force. Thanks for your knowledge. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa

Posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 15:37:08

In reply to Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 15:30:15

Tiredness mixed with tension is what I would experience on cutting down.

You can be tired and tense at the same time.

Or is that not it?

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Sigismund

Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 15:45:53

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa, posted by Sigismund on July 2, 2008, at 15:37:08

Sigi I have no idea hence the thread. Is there a way to tell if you're tense? Seems meds are working in reverse for me now. Thanks Sigi Love PJ

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Dow

Posted by dbc on July 2, 2008, at 16:00:25

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Sigismund, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 15:45:53

Sometimes it seems the brain just acts confused about these things and you get weird reactions and then within a week it sorts its self out and you kind of wish it hadnt of.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Dow dbc

Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 16:13:28

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Dow, posted by dbc on July 2, 2008, at 16:00:25

Meaning that anxiety will come back? I'm already confused. Brain dosen't like changes. Love Phillipa and thanks for your response.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa

Posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 16:32:47

In reply to Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 15:30:15

Phillipa,

This is common in the literature about benzo withdrawal you know that. When I went off of it I had NO anxiety withdrawal. What I did have was the following:

1. Tons of dreaming, REM rebound. My body loved it. I call it recovery.
2. Tiredness, ALL of the time. I slept more and by 8 or so at night I was done. Work was killer but I persevered.
3. I was VERY irritable and had a hard time dealing with people, my poor wife.
4. Very depressed even thought I slept more. This is very unlike depression for me.
5. Sound and smells were amplified beyond belief. I could smell what shampoo people were using a few feet away. Very weird.

When I first cut the dose it took a few weeks and then BANG it was over and I felt better. I then waited two weeks to give my brain time to understand this feeling of normalacy before I cut again. Then when I cut again it started all over and lasted longer each time. That was when I knew it was withdrawal and I realized that cutting too much, too soon, would have been extremley hard on my brain. I think I realized why some people get seizures when going off benzos too quick.

Here is your choice; Do you go through the withdrawal or keep on this merry go round that is not working for you? You may be like me. Meds don't work and actually make me worse.

I have been med free for almost one year and have had ups and downs but I am slowly getting better. Maybe I won't ever need meds again. I don't know but they take tons of time to recover from taht I know for sure. If I ever become non-functional I will take meds though as that would be stupid.

regards

johnj

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be johnj

Posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 20:12:46

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa, posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 16:32:47

No I didn't know that. I've never withdrawn from a benzo only following pdocs orders try to get to l5mg but so many are saying the same as you that they are better without any so where is this chemistry thing? So your advise would be stick with it as valium has something like a 200 hour halflife? Love Phillipa congrats for being med free.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be

Posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2008, at 20:14:52

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa, posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 16:32:47

I can relate to everything johnj said. I know it sounds weird and doesn't make sense, but I think your body is saying thank you. Stay on the course Jan. Keep weaning down. Personally I would take smaller steps, like 15mg to 12.5mg instead of 15mg to 10mg. Customize the darn things and make the steps real tiny. Less of a surprise to the system. Easier to adjust.

Your system is rebuilding and recovering, that takes lots of energy, and thus the tiredness. That's my take on it. According to a book and my doctor, when adrenal fatigue patients begin to recover, they actually feel more tired at first for a few weeks to a few months.


> Phillipa,
>
> This is common in the literature about benzo withdrawal you know that. When I went off of it I had NO anxiety withdrawal. What I did have was the following:
>
> 1. Tons of dreaming, REM rebound. My body loved it. I call it recovery.
> 2. Tiredness, ALL of the time. I slept more and by 8 or so at night I was done. Work was killer but I persevered.
> 3. I was VERY irritable and had a hard time dealing with people, my poor wife.
> 4. Very depressed even thought I slept more. This is very unlike depression for me.
> 5. Sound and smells were amplified beyond belief. I could smell what shampoo people were using a few feet away. Very weird.
>
> When I first cut the dose it took a few weeks and then BANG it was over and I felt better. I then waited two weeks to give my brain time to understand this feeling of normalacy before I cut again. Then when I cut again it started all over and lasted longer each time. That was when I knew it was withdrawal and I realized that cutting too much, too soon, would have been extremley hard on my brain. I think I realized why some people get seizures when going off benzos too quick.
>
> Here is your choice; Do you go through the withdrawal or keep on this merry go round that is not working for you? You may be like me. Meds don't work and actually make me worse.
>
> I have been med free for almost one year and have had ups and downs but I am slowly getting better. Maybe I won't ever need meds again. I don't know but they take tons of time to recover from taht I know for sure. If I ever become non-functional I will take meds though as that would be stupid.
>
> regards
>
> johnj

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be bleauberry

Posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 21:03:11

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by bleauberry on July 2, 2008, at 20:14:52

Finally, after almost one year I am feeling hope. The anxiety out of nowhere, fatigue, insomnia, etc., appears to be abating. Remeron was the drug that was harder to quit than benzos. It really messes with the adrenals in my opinion. Everything I found in old posts was pretty damn accurate. I can't imagine a harder drug to get off of than remeron.

When you mentioned rebuiling and energy that really hit home. I was eating so much, constantly hungry and losing weight. It has finally stabilized and I actually have gained 4 pounds of much needed weight. I went to every doctor out there and one very wise doc told me I had to wait it out a full year. I saw her today and she said I look better now and was very encouraging. There WILL be ups and downs but she told me to stay the course and I will try. Who knows maybe I can recover fully?

Meditation, taichi, and gigong have been very important to my health.

How are you blueberry?

johnj

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa

Posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 21:13:48

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be johnj, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 20:12:46

Listen to blueberry. Cut in very small doses. MOST important is to wait until you feel better before cutting again. When I say that, I mean wait until you feel better and then wait 2 MORE weeks before cutting. That is what I did. If you don't wait you will always feel bad. You need to give it time, it is NOT a race. You need to eat as well as possbile. Lots of fruit and veggies and don't even worry about weight gain or loss. Your body knows what to do, LET it do it.

Walk, drink water, eat, walk, drink water, and WALK. I don't know if you work or not but if you don't you have to keep moving. The stress of work almost did me in as it was so hard. I know you will not like to hear this but being on Dr. Bob all day is not healthy for you. Being on the computer all day is also not healthy. You need simplicity and most important a lot less overload for your brain. Get a book and sit outside (I suggest the Art of Happiness by the Dalai Lama, great book. I wish you the best.

Pray like everything depends on God, but work like everything depends on YOU. Jan, you have to make the decision and muster the determination to feel better. Attitude is the key and don't beat yourself up.

regards

johnj

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be

Posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2008, at 19:11:34

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa, posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 21:13:48

I've found the darn low dose of luvox harder seems my brain likes it and want off of that. Some valium I will always take. I work on the computer we do ebay and post late at night. And get up late. And then out to make purchases so computer is necessary. Check in here now and then. This is now my babble time as I do it before dinner and yes we do eat late. Thanks for the support guys. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa

Posted by johnj on July 3, 2008, at 22:57:24

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2008, at 19:11:34

"I've found the darn low dose of luvox harder seems my brain likes it and want off of that."

I am not sure what you mean here. You think you need it or not?


"Some valium I will always take. "

Why? If you think you will always need it then you will. You will never know without trying. When did you start meds and why? Think back on when you were med free and remember that feeling, maybe you can get it back. Have you ever considered life style changes?

johnj

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be johnj

Posted by Mc Comfortable on July 4, 2008, at 6:53:17

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa, posted by johnj on July 2, 2008, at 21:13:48

> I know you will not like to hear this but being on Dr. Bob all day is not healthy for you. Being on the computer all day is also not healthy.


I think alot of folks have attempted to help phillipa question the amount of posting (note just posting - not to mention any posts she does not post to on this board which are few) could be a problem and the amount of posting has thus given way to enabling another problem in and of itself. Unfortunately, the anti-addiction limits are voluntary and at present, there is no limit on number of posts per day and such. I often question how helpful allowing unlimited access impacts an OCD sufferer.

phillipa does not see her partisipation as a problem, thus the excuses and rationalizations whenever it is questioned by others. I think a number of people do see a very unhealthy behavior that has gone on for years and years. It has not appeared change anything toward the postive for phillipa but I have certainly seen a negative impact to this board. I wish phillipa would think about this for her own sake but talking to her, in my experience, about it is rejected out of hand.

I wish phillipa's mental health would improve but I believe so long as she continues with the behavior she exhibits here, that's enabling an off shoot problem.

I'll accept my santions now for saying this ----

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa

Posted by Mc Comfortable on July 4, 2008, at 7:27:21

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by Phillipa on July 3, 2008, at 19:11:34

You will probably not consider me supportive. You need to work with your doc and a therapist - you DO have ones as you have reported that - and figure out a new plan of some form. You need to look at your behaviors as to what is NOT working and what is unhealthy. You need to stop always being the victim and it all being someone or something else's fault. You need to realize your posting is compulsive rather than just something you do for shitz and giggles and to pass the time. Using the boards in somewhat of a social network fashion is fine so long as that's not the ONLY social network in your life. And used because you feel it's safe as it's words on a page and not face to face. You appointed yourself the greeter of this board, a role you do not have to have and is not good for you. You do not HAVE to address most posts on this board simply because that what you've always done. For you personally, your answers are not to be found here - if they were you would found them by now.

I'm sure you will be angered by my post but you are honest here and I feel the need to be also.

If I'm going to get blocked and I've no doubt I will, it may as well be over something I feel is important. You have concerned me for many years but the civility rules have graded down any comments I had. Today, I don't care - it will be deemed uncivil but it is what I think is very true. Continuing to post as you do now on Dr. Bob's site will keep you sicker and sicker and wallowing in your challenges.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Mc Comfortable

Posted by johnj on July 4, 2008, at 7:59:54

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be johnj, posted by Mc Comfortable on July 4, 2008, at 6:53:17

I agree wtih you, I thought a little tough love would work. I think I may have been wrong. Being on ocd sufferer I understand what is going on but you have to make the determination to change. In my case I just got sick of the repeatative behavior. I too feel the board has degraded and it is best that I probably take a break just like linkadge has done. I wish you the best.

It is sad when one refuses to help themselves get better it can bring everyone down. regards

johnj

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be johnj

Posted by Mc Comfortable on July 4, 2008, at 8:10:43

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Mc Comfortable, posted by johnj on July 4, 2008, at 7:59:54

Ah, bless you johnj.

I find it great that people care enough to try and help others even if, at times, as I have recently done, it appears to seem mean-spirited. In my case, it really isn't but after years and years of being confounded it has turned to frustration. I just don't get it at all - maybe that's not good but it's where I am with this.

I enjoy your posts and feel you are on your path for what works for you ----- in that continuing in a positive vein, I wish you the very best.

Take good care of you.

 

Re: Mr Comfortable

Posted by dbc on July 4, 2008, at 12:32:11

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Mc Comfortable, posted by johnj on July 4, 2008, at 7:59:54

Someone has failed to grasp the compulsive nature of the internet. Check out the massive 20 something oriented forums like somethingawful or 4chan (you really probably dont want to see what 4chan is). There is people that literally live on those forums and post 24 hours a day.

The biggest game on the internet that sports a 10 million person player base World of Warcraft has at least 10% of the people playing 12+ hours a day. This isnt anything new and has been going on since the dawn of usenet and probably even before that.

Philipa's behaviour is on par with the rest of the bored people on the internet despite this board being more about neurotransmitters and disorders, it still doesnt change the rules.

I dont even know philipa but im pretty certain if this were a less strictly enforced board there would be a flamewar going on.

 

Please be civil Mc Comfortable

Posted by Deputy Dinah on July 4, 2008, at 15:27:16

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be johnj, posted by Mc Comfortable on July 4, 2008, at 6:53:17

> I think a number of people do see a very unhealthy behavior that has gone on for years and years. It has not appeared change anything toward the postive for phillipa but I have certainly seen a negative impact to this board.

Please follow site guidelines, and do not post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.

If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.

Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.

Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob

 

Please be civil johnj

Posted by Deputy Dinah on July 4, 2008, at 15:30:24

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Mc Comfortable, posted by johnj on July 4, 2008, at 7:59:54

> It is sad when one refuses to help themselves get better it can bring everyone down.

Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down.

If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.

Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.

Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob

 

Please be civil dbc

Posted by Deputy Dinah on July 4, 2008, at 15:32:47

In reply to Re: Mr Comfortable, posted by dbc on July 4, 2008, at 12:32:11

> Philipa's behaviour is on par with the rest of the bored people on the internet despite this board being more about neurotransmitters and disorders, it still doesnt change the rules.

Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, or jump to conclusions about others.

If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil

Follow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.

Dr. Bob is always free to override deputy decisions. His email is on the bottom of each page. Please feel free to email him if you believe this decision was made in error.

Dinah, acting as deputy to Dr. Bob

 

Re: dbc

Posted by Mc Comfortable on July 4, 2008, at 15:39:12

In reply to Re: Mr Comfortable, posted by dbc on July 4, 2008, at 12:32:11

> Someone has failed to grasp the compulsive nature of the internet.

I'm unsure what you're meaning there but I am aware of the pitfalls, IMO, of internet use. My personal opinion is I do not think of it as a healthy behavior for a large number of reasons. In following a board for some time - consisent and off and on - some repeated "stuff" has become mainly all I can see. Maybe it's a sign for me to go and leave the board to those who appear to run it and are allowed to do as they please.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be

Posted by bulldog2 on July 4, 2008, at 16:53:34

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be Phillipa, posted by johnj on July 3, 2008, at 22:57:24

> "I've found the darn low dose of luvox harder seems my brain likes it and want off of that."
>
> I am not sure what you mean here. You think you need it or not?
>
>
> "Some valium I will always take. "
>
> Why? If you think you will always need it then you will. You will never know without trying. When did you start meds and why? Think back on when you were med free and remember that feeling, maybe you can get it back. Have you ever considered life style changes?
>
> johnj

What works for one may not work for another. You have decided to do total withdrawel and maybe that has worked for you. Also the older you get the situation changes. Being on klonopin for years I atttempted withdrawel. BP went up and I found there were times I needed a dose. What you have to remember anxiety has very bad physical effects on the body and much worse when one is in their 60's. So i have compromised I adjust my dose as needed. Some days I only take one 1 mg pills most days 1.5 milligrams and on bad days 2 milligrams. yes i exercise and eat well to reduce anxiety. Sometimes we have to compromise. I'd rather see phillipe adjust her dosages and do with as little as possible to get buy rather than suffer needlessly for the sake of withdrawel. At my age I don't have a year to suffer for the sake of saying I'm drug free and Phillipe is around my age. As I said earlier I think a good first step is seeing if one can lower their dose to a level they're comfortable with. Sometimes there seems to be a philosophy of meds or no meds. Phillipe is actually doing better right now and is more fuctional as I communicate with her. So why put excessive stress with her as either take valium or no valium. I think reduction or taking doses as needed is a valid game plan.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be

Posted by Justherself54 on July 4, 2008, at 18:20:34

In reply to Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by Phillipa on July 2, 2008, at 15:30:15

> I don't get it as I've cut my valium from 20mg to 15mg a night and now I'm more tired then ever. Makes no sense to me as I thought anxiety would go up?? Anyone have an idea why this could be happening as need to do a lot of things and it's all force. Thanks for your knowledge. Love Phillipa


I wonder if you are still recouping from surgery and that may be contributing to your feeling tired. I know it took me way longer than I thought it would to get some energy back. I agree with the previous poster. Cut back to where you are comfortable...and I'm sure your doctor is supervising the decrease...take care. Do you think the Luvox is pooping out on you?

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be

Posted by bulldog2 on July 4, 2008, at 19:04:37

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by Justherself54 on July 4, 2008, at 18:20:34

> > I don't get it as I've cut my valium from 20mg to 15mg a night and now I'm more tired then ever. Makes no sense to me as I thought anxiety would go up?? Anyone have an idea why this could be happening as need to do a lot of things and it's all force. Thanks for your knowledge. Love Phillipa
>
>
> I wonder if you are still recouping from surgery and that may be contributing to your feeling tired. I know it took me way longer than I thought it would to get some energy back. I agree with the previous poster. Cut back to where you are comfortable...and I'm sure your doctor is supervising the decrease...take care. Do you think the Luvox is pooping out on you?
>

And i agree with you also. There's so many reasons she could be tired. Thyroid, surgery among many issues in her life you can't come to the conclusion that cutting valium 5 mg is causing fatigue when generally cutting a benzo leads to more energy. The original post is very vague with many possible variables.

 

Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be bulldog2

Posted by johnj on July 4, 2008, at 22:48:27

In reply to Re: Why Would One Feel Extremely Tired Cutting Down Be, posted by bulldog2 on July 4, 2008, at 16:53:34

You missed the point. She said she has NO increase in anxiety when she cut. So why take it??? If it is just withdrawal (the tiredness)it will pass and the only way to know it is to try. Running back to a med if it isn't helping doesn't make sense to me. If a person is doing better on less meds and isn't having more depression or anxiety that may tell a person something.

I am better not than when I was 28 and that has been many, many years ago. So saying the older you get the worse anxiety is is not always accurate. BTW: I am not anti-med at all.

I resent the fact that you say that I AM putting stress on her. I am seeing it is getting time for me to leave this site.


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