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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 0:36:44
Hello , Ive been thinking months about them
Need more energy . Ive thought in provigil
However Im afraid of all histories of these
drugs. Dependance , pooping out... etcSometimes I take cofee and make feel better,
with more strength and even happier. I only do this in special times because I sure it will
stop working if I do it daily.
Im on Nardil and on Xanax ,but I need more
helpWhat was the reason you decided to try them?
did they work as you though ? do you recomed me
these drugs ?
Tell your history please
Tepi
Posted by Eric Wagner on March 23, 2008, at 8:02:54
In reply to What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 0:36:44
my dr. had me try stimulants after trying many different types in each class of antidepressant w/ no positive response whatsoever.
stimulants are - from what i understand - a last resort & may provide further complications due to their possible side effects/misuse.
i am very depressed, have add & anhedonia - no motivation, energy, neg. thoughts/mood, lack of concentration/creativity - pretty much miserable
i am currently taking a med. mainly used to treat children w/ add.
initially had a great response for 2 weeks, then nothing.
possibly switching to another type may help me, or may just provide more of the same.
id suggest doing as much research as possible - on the meds which helped people w/ similar diag. as you, & expressing your concern/findings to your dr.
if i find a med. which helps me - ill let you know.
good luck
eric m. wagner
Posted by Racer on March 23, 2008, at 8:44:41
In reply to What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 0:36:44
Tepi,
I thought your main problem was anxiety? Social phobia? If that's the case, then stimulants might make some of that worse. Stimulants trigger the same sort of physical response as low level fear does, and it can feel like anxiety to some people.
I take stimulants. I've tried many, and settled on Concerta -- a long acting form of the drug in Ritalin. Concerta works for me because there's a smoother ride during the day. I can't tell you whether my dose will stay the same over years and years and years, but I am now taking the same dose as we first hit on when I started a year or two ago. The only difference is that I now take two 18mg pills, rather than 1 36mg pill, so that on days like today, I can choose to take half a dose.
If I should find a perfect medication, I'll be renting billboards, but as far as the imperfect medications I've found now, methylphenidate is a good one. It does augment my antidepressant -- Wellbutrin -- and it does help a little with energy. I do have an anxiety disorder, but I believe I have learned more psychological coping strategies than you have at this point, so I'm not sure that you can extrapolate from my results.
Can you find yourself a book with exercises you can use to learn self-soothing techniques? Relaxation/meditation techniques? Maybe get into therapy for a while? I know that therapy at least is harder for you, but it might be helpful.
As far as stimulants go, that's one class of medication that I very, very strongly urge you to take *only* under a doctor's supervision. The reason I recommend that is simple -- stimulant abuse is so insidious, so hard to overcome, and so seductive, I think it's best to have an outsider who can keep an eye on things and pull the plug if the need arises...
Posted by Phillipa on March 23, 2008, at 12:11:07
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ? » tepi, posted by Racer on March 23, 2008, at 8:44:41
I'm sorry I've tried to figure out now for about three years how a person with anxiety could possibly benefit from a stimulant if they also raise anxiety. Simply don't understand. Is this cognitive and easy to understand as some have said my cognition seems to be going downhill. Tepi thought you were now doing well on the naridl and xanax? Love Phillipa
Posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 20:04:56
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by Eric Wagner on March 23, 2008, at 8:02:54
> my dr. had me try stimulants after trying many different types in each class of antidepressant w/ no positive response whatsoever.
>
> stimulants are - from what i understand - a last resort & may provide further complications due to their possible side effects/misuse.
>
> i am very depressed, have add & anhedonia - no motivation, energy, neg. thoughts/mood, lack of concentration/creativity - pretty much miserable
>
> i am currently taking a med. mainly used to treat children w/ add.
>
> initially had a great response for 2 weeks, then nothing.
>
> possibly switching to another type may help me, or may just provide more of the same.
>
> id suggest doing as much research as possible - on the meds which helped people w/ similar diag. as you, & expressing your concern/findings to your dr.
>
> if i find a med. which helps me - ill let you know.
>
> good luck
> eric m. wagnerThanks for sharing your problems with me Eric . Hopeffully you will find soon a med that can maintain the same good effects. Thats a good signal
Tepi
Posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 20:26:02
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ? » tepi, posted by Racer on March 23, 2008, at 8:44:41
> Tepi,
>
> I thought your main problem was anxiety? Social phobia?Yes !!! but also depression
If that's the case, then stimulants might make some of that worse. Stimulants trigger the same sort of physical response as low level fear does, and it can feel like anxiety to some people.
>Yes !!! So I dont understand what is going on with me. I took Xanax and then the Coffee But I dont suffer any anxiety ! . In fact I feel better because makes me emjoy more all I do ,I inclusive enjoy a little talking to people and I desire to talk more .... ???? what the heck is this ??
> I take stimulants. I've tried many, and settled on Concerta -- a long acting form of the drug in Ritalin. Concerta works for me because there's a smoother ride during the day. I can't tell you whether my dose will stay the same over years and years and years, but I am now taking the same dose as we first hit on when I started a year or two ago. The only difference is that I now take two 18mg pills, rather than 1 36mg pill, so that on days like today, I can choose to take half a dose.
>So same dose ? that is good Racer !
> If I should find a perfect medication, I'll be renting billboards, but as far as the imperfect medications I've found now, methylphenidate is a good one. It does augment my antidepressant -- Wellbutrin -- and it does help a little with energy. I do have an anxiety disorder,
and does the stimulant not make it worse ??
but I believe I have learned more psychological coping strategies than you have at this point, so I'm not sure that you can extrapolate from my results.
>Like cognocitive therapy ? . Well no ,Im not good.
> Can you find yourself a book with exercises you can use to learn self-soothing techniques? Relaxation/meditation techniques? Maybe get into therapy for a while? I know that therapy at least is harder for you, but it might be helpful.
>I am reading a book called . How to make closer friends and find a loving partner from James Burn. It talks about cog therapy and have excercises to help people deal with distortional thoughts ,a lthough I haven`t done any yet
> As far as stimulants go, that's one class of medication that I very, very strongly urge you to take *only* under a doctor's supervision. The reason I recommend that is simple -- stimulant abuse is so insidious, so hard to overcome, and so seductive, I think it's best to have an outsider who can keep an eye on things and pull the plug if the need arises...really ?? I thougth Provigil was kind of different to the old ones Racer
Thanks for you suggestions!
Tepi
Posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 20:54:39
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by Phillipa on March 23, 2008, at 12:11:07
> I'm sorry I've tried to figure out now for about three years how a person with anxiety could possibly benefit from a stimulant if they also raise anxiety. Simply don't understand. Is this cognitive and easy to understand as some have said my cognition seems to be going downhill. Tepi thought you were now doing well on the naridl and xanax? Love Phillipa
Well kind of true phillipa, it is ups and downs . the downs are often and deeper . The ups are not that good enough
Im alone , I need improvement , at least 2 or 3 friends I wish I can have. What am I gonna do in life , locked in my room .
We always want more and more. Im just trying to keep improving my life , I do not wanna waste more time , I have lost many years dealing witht this . Hope you understand me dear philipa
Tepi
Posted by Phillipa on March 23, 2008, at 21:44:27
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ? » Phillipa, posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 20:54:39
Tepi of course I do. Love Phillipa
Posted by elanor roosevelt on March 24, 2008, at 18:27:39
In reply to What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 0:36:44
i tried stimulants to increase focus and because i was going down the tubes dead-ending on ADs
i am making some changes now but with the adderall and no ADs the fear is becoming an issueand impatience
Posted by tepi on March 26, 2008, at 2:48:22
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by elanor roosevelt on March 24, 2008, at 18:27:39
> i tried stimulants to increase focus and because i was going down the tubes dead-ending on ADs
> i am making some changes now but with the adderall and no ADs the fear is becoming an issue
>
> and impatiencefear to people?
Posted by Molybdenum on March 26, 2008, at 3:33:55
In reply to What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 0:36:44
Hi, <I'm ranting now, so forgive me please and insert "In my opinion" in front of each sentence>
I've taken quite a lot of drugs in my life. :) My liver should get some sort of little plaque somewhere. ;)
Nowadays all my meds are on prescription though. 25 years ago heroin was great fun but methamphetamine always amazed me by how quickly it could change the way I felt. A few mins after the crap went roaring up my veins I was full of great ideas & energy - ENERGY...!!!
Now of course the ideas really were crap ideas, but under the influence you never realize this. Reminds me of an old cartoon (from Punch?) with several cavemen sharing a joint. One says to the others "It makes everything I think seem profound....." ;) That's problem # 1.
The next trouble with what you want to achieve is that you're borrowing from the "Bank of YOU" for the energy and this particular bank is very aggressive when it comes to wanting payments with interest and in some cases, of foreclosing on your life. The younger & fitter you are the better I suppose but the rule still applies. That's problem # 2.
The other trouble with taking drugs that REALLY make you feel instantly GREAT is that it f*cks up your sense of perspective. There's no magic pharmacological reason why drug addiction occurs other than the truly horrifying prospect of having to give up feeling great in a way you've never felt before - and that is a really terrible thing to have to do. One day humans will work out how to erase the memory of the "HIGH experience" as part of the "drying out treatment". Of course at best you'd then be back to the person who wanted to try the stuff in the first place, so maybe that won't really answer the perspective problem either. That's problem # 3.
Now 25 yrs later I restrict myself to modafinil & methlphenidate because I cannot get through a working week "productively" and get paid without them. It's going to kill me one day or give me cancer or ruin my life more than it already is I am sure. At the very least it'll cause me to crash every so often to recover.
BTW, I've never gotten over how good LSD made me feel either. But that's only oddly stimulating in some chemical manner. Indole ring? I forget...
Stim-wise today modafinil works great - very smooth & beats the sh*t out of methyphenidate in the Pepsi challenge but please be wary of making decisions under the influence - and you probably won't realize you're decision making ability is so out of whack until after the drug wears off. And "hello" - 'tis too late then ;) Prob # 1.
I've made some hugely dumb decisions on stims.
So my advice is to try, try, try not to get any stims at all.
If an antidepressant will give you enough energy to get by then I really suggest you stop there.
When I die one day there will be no pyramids to celebrate my life. So please take this as a nugget of wisdom from someone who has probably been stupid enough for the both of us already.
Take Care & Good Luck :)
Posted by shasling on March 26, 2008, at 16:49:17
In reply to What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by tepi on March 23, 2008, at 0:36:44
> Hello , Ive been thinking months about them
> Need more energy . Ive thought in provigil
> However Im afraid of all histories of these
> drugs. Dependance , pooping out... etc
>
> Sometimes I take cofee and make feel better,
> with more strength and even happier. I only do this in special times because I sure it will
> stop working if I do it daily.
>
> Im on Nardil and on Xanax ,but I need more
> help
>
> What was the reason you decided to try them?
> did they work as you though ? do you recomed me
> these drugs ?
> Tell your history please
>
> TepiTepi, please email me... I think you remember my email...?
Suzie
Posted by undopaminergic on March 27, 2008, at 5:50:56
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by Molybdenum on March 26, 2008, at 3:33:55
>
> Nowadays all my meds are on prescription though. 25 years ago heroin was great fun but methamphetamine always amazed me by how quickly it could change the way I felt. A few mins after the crap went roaring up my veins I was full of great ideas & energy - ENERGY...!!!
>
> Now of course the ideas really were crap ideas, but under the influence you never realize this. Reminds me of an old cartoon (from Punch?) with several cavemen sharing a joint. One says to the others "It makes everything I think seem profound....." ;) That's problem # 1.
Almost precisely my experience with the amphetamine-like combination of selegiline and phenylethylamine (PEA), although my choice of words would be more modest. Things feel so more important and enticing while you're high.> The next trouble with what you want to achieve is that you're borrowing from the "Bank of YOU" for the energy and this particular bank is very aggressive when it comes to wanting payments with interest and in some cases, of foreclosing on your life. The younger & fitter you are the better I suppose but the rule still applies. That's problem # 2.
Yes, and that is especially true with amphetamine-like stimulants (e.g. meth and PEA) - the period of lethargy, drowsiness and depressed feelings can be quite prolonged, whereas with methylphenidate, cocaine and modafinil, one returns to normal functioning much faster, although some people still have the trouble with what's described below:>
> The other trouble with taking drugs that REALLY make you feel instantly GREAT is that it f*cks up your sense of perspective. There's no magic pharmacological reason why drug addiction occurs other than the truly horrifying prospect of having to give up feeling great in a way you've never felt before - and that is a really terrible thing to have to do. One day humans will work out how to erase the memory of the "HIGH experience" as part of the "drying out treatment". Of course at best you'd then be back to the person who wanted to try the stuff in the first place, so maybe that won't really answer the perspective problem either. That's problem # 3.
That is true for many people, but not for me, possibly because I'm anhedonic and emotionally blunted.>
> Stim-wise today modafinil works great - very smooth & beats the sh*t out of methyphenidate in the Pepsi challenge but please be wary of making decisions under the influence - and you probably won't realize you're decision making ability is so out of whack until after the drug wears off. And "hello" - 'tis too late then ;) Prob # 1.
That's somewhat true for amphetamine-like stimulants in my experience, but in contrast, dopamine reuptake inhibitors like methylphenidate and modafinil actually improve my capability of rational decision making - without drugs, I'm so indecisive and apathetic as to be rather incapacitated.Also in terms of neurotoxicity, the amphetamines are the most harmful (there's no data on PEA). Long term use - even at doses within the (higher) therapeutic range - reduce several biological markers of dopamine in the brain (serotonin in the case of MDMA). On the other hand, methylphenidate, cocaine and modafinil seem to be mostly harmless and actually protect against some forms of toxicity. They may still be harmful in other respects, for example, by raising blood pressure and body temperature, but that can be said of many non-stimulant drugs as well.
> Now 25 yrs later I restrict myself to modafinil & methlphenidate
So do I, insomuch as I avoid amphetamines, but there may come a day when all the better alternatives have been exhausted.
Posted by undopaminergic on March 27, 2008, at 6:04:09
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by tepi on March 26, 2008, at 2:48:22
Stimulants may worsen anxiety in some people. My experience is that they do the opposite - they boost confidence and reduce anxieties and fears.
As I've noted elsewhere, I find stimulants (and other stimulating drugs) to be much more effective against anxiety than SSRIs or benzodiazepines.
Posted by Molybdenum on March 29, 2008, at 21:26:28
In reply to Re: What made you try Stimulants ?, posted by undopaminergic on March 27, 2008, at 6:04:09
> Stimulants may worsen anxiety in some people. My experience is that they do the opposite - they boost confidence and reduce anxieties and fears.
>
> As I've noted elsewhere, I find stimulants (and other stimulating drugs) to be much more effective against anxiety than SSRIs or benzodiazepines.Hi undopaminergic,
I've had both anxiety & the opposite with stims such as methylphenidate at different times. I think it's probably like Timothy Leary used to say about "set and setting". If your anxious but tired, the stims may put you on edge. If you're depressed & tired, then maybe more likely to feel energized or euphoric.
I'm just so wary of this class of dugs as they're so easy to become dependent on. I think it's the "instantly feeling good" part that worries me. And I do feel the "coming down" effects the next day (assuming I'm not simply taking more that day..!)
Take Care ;)
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