Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 754210

Shown: posts 1 to 19 of 19. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Am I just a depressive person

Posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

Firstly I would like to thank you all for your messages over the last few days. They have been a life-saver.
I am beginning to think that you who respond to treatment are naturally quite extravert and fun people but suffer from this illness.
However, I feel i am just a depressive person. I have always tended to be very quiet and school, would be scared to put my hand up to answer a question. I am no fun at all. I hardly speak to people to bring up a conversation and the only thing i enjoyed at school was homework.
May be this is why antidepressants dont work for me. Im not an optimist like you all. My whole being is of reservation and introversion and that doesn't make for a happy life.
I have tried CBT and psychoanalysis but you can't change the person you were born to be.

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by girlnterrupted78 on April 28, 2007, at 18:58:44

In reply to Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

I used to think the exact same thing about myself, until I found ONE antidepressant that worked. Then I knew it wasn't me. I never spoke, never enjoyed myself in parties, felt too afraid to particiate in conversations, always felt sad or depressed when with people. It was a nightmare.

But I tried Celexa and it gave me one full year of happiness. Unfortunately, it stopped working after a year, so I've been depressed and anxious for 5 years afterwards. But just having felt outgoing and social for once in my life proved to me me that I did in fact have it in me.

I have hope that I will find another antidepressant that will bring the social part of me(my next bet is Nardil.)

I don't really think that there's people whose personalities are "depressive." I dont believe depression is a personality, but an illness that can be treated. So if you think you're just depressive, you might be right, but not as a personality, but as a treatable symptom.

Have you ever tried Celexa, Paxil, or Nardil? Those are the antidepressants that I've heard of that work well on people who are depressive and socially anxious. Before giving up, you should try some medications and see if they work. That's the only way to figure it out.

Good luck

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 19:15:06

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by girlnterrupted78 on April 28, 2007, at 18:58:44

Hi maybe you are right.
Unfortunately for me i am very treatment resistant. I have tried most SSRIs, venlafaxine, duloxetine, lamotrigine and recently tried parnate and nardil for a few weeks. I had to stop nardil because of side-effects.
It seems that these antidepressants poop out after a while.
The thought of having to live my life searching for a cure continually as the one before fails is unbearable. I have looked into TMS and VNS but even these have spurious results.
I hate to sound like this but i really feel there is no hope left for me. I can;t even be bothered to find something any more. Why bother when it stops working after a while.
I am thinking of putting an end to all this and have been forewarning my family so it does not as a surprise to them if i should decide to.
I will shut up now. I don't think I am very good for this board.

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by girlnterrupted78 on April 28, 2007, at 19:45:13

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 19:15:06

I'm sorry to hear about your experience. I actually feel the exact same way. I had a great year on Celexa, but after that, it was over and back to the same horrible depression for another 5 years.

I've also been thinking about ending it, but I don't dare do it. I don't have the guts and I always keep thinking that maybe they'll find a better med with all the scientific advance.

So what kinds of side effects did you have on Nardil? Did you go to the highest dose? Did you ever try Celexa or Paxil?

I'm in the same situation as you are, and I also feel desperate. I haven't dated anyone in the last 6 years because of this depression. I dated when on Celexa, but that was it. It's not worth living this way.

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2007, at 20:09:59

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by girlnterrupted78 on April 28, 2007, at 19:45:13

There is hope for both of you. Just talking about it on this board someone will come up with something neither of you have tried. And what about combos? If either of you are serious about hurting yourselves contact your pdoc and go to a hospital. Are there people with both of you? Seriously this is not a light matter. Please call and ask for help . And keep posting. Love Phillipa

 

Re:Please add triggers to above thread***** (nm)

Posted by Phillipa on April 28, 2007, at 20:11:12

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by girlnterrupted78 on April 28, 2007, at 19:45:13

 

Probably not jenny80

Posted by Racer on April 28, 2007, at 20:30:21

In reply to Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

Of course, there's a chance that I'm wrong, but that hasn't happened yet -- no reason to think it would start now ;-)

Seriously, though --

No, you probably aren't somehow wired to be depessive as a personality type. WHat you're describing sounds much more like someone who has suffered from some form of depressive/anxious disorder for a long time. GirlInterupted has already said that sounds like her experience, and it sounds like mine, too. Until the first time an anti-depressive worked for me, I thought I was just a miserable failure as a human being, and someone no one would ever like, let alone love.

Guess what? Not true, on any of those counts.

So, you've tried the SRIs, and the big two MAOIs. You say that you've had side effects, but no relief? The more details you can provide, the more chance someone here can offer specific advice. Here's some general advice, though: there really is hope. The depression you're experiencing makes it close to impossible to see that hope, but that's the depression. Really and truly, cross my heart and -- well, I won't say that -- but there really and truly is hope. The problem is that it can be so hard to see it, and it seems as though all the problems with meds make them worse than the disorder, etc.

So, I can't tell you what helped me in that regard. Probably nothing particularly profound. Maybe it was just curiosity, "what will happen next?" At times, I certainly made deals with myself -- "if this doesn't work, I can do it then..." But whether you can see it or not, there are people who care about you, whose lives would be diminished if you weren't here. I hope you'll choose to keep trying. And I say that knowing how hard that is.

By the way, my last depressive episode started in 2003. I've finally found a medication combo that seems to be working adequately. I do know how awful it is to keep trying, without luck.

Good luck.

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by brooke484 on April 28, 2007, at 21:28:32

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by girlnterrupted78 on April 28, 2007, at 18:58:44

jenny,

I feel for you. I really do. I've been on so many drugs and none worked except for imipramine and lexapro. I used to be outgoing, social, happy, etc and then this illness took over my life. Now all I think about is death. I cut off my friends, rarely go out because I just don't have the energy and cannot work. If I didn't have a 3 year old son to take care of and a family who loved me I would end it all right now. I've been suffering for so long I barely remember what it's like to be "normal."

I feel your pain, but please stay strong. Some day you will get better. It happened to me twice and I believe it will again.

We're here for you.

brooke

 

Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change

Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 28, 2007, at 22:24:58

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 19:15:06

Jenny: My heart goes out to you. Many of the people on this board have been where you are or even much worse, and found a way to turn things around. Keep on posting your thoughts, sharing your deepest and darkest thoughts. There ppl on here that care about you and will help you through every step of the way.

Do you need someone to call you? Do you have AIM or Yahoo messenger? Perhaps we can meet you there.

Jenny, you're stronger than you think you are. You're going to make it through this and get better. One day, you will look back at these times as times that made you the person you become, and you will be able to help so many others that come across your path and are struggling.

Please dont ever give up hope. There are new meds coming out all the time. There are so many of the current meds that you can take in combos that you havent tried yet. CBT is difficult when you are not stabilized on meds, but it works.

And change? People can and do change. Look at the Bible. It is a radical BOOK of CHANGE. Paul went from murderer to changing the world with his convictions and actions. I could go on and on.

Bill Gates was a college dropout. Gerald Ford was an orphan.

What you've to realize is that everyone is dealing with something, whether it be depression or anxiety. Or someone could be an alcoholic, or abuse drugs. Or a workaholic, or no self-esteem, or abused as a child. Or have terrible relationships, or cheat on ther spouse, or can't find a job that makes them happy. In other words, you are not alone in your challenges with life, and there is a lot of power knowing that (you are not alone).

Everything happens for a purpose, and He will ALWAYS make a way where there seems to be no way.

The first thing you need to do is change pdocs, and see one of these specialists for "treatment-resistant" issues. If you send me an email, my pdoc is nationally known for that and I can find someone in your area.

Hang in there! Michael
sportscarvell@yahoo.com

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by Ines on April 29, 2007, at 7:53:26

In reply to Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

Jenny,
I was reading your earlier post about the way you psychotherapist makes you feel responsible for your depression. I just wanted to say DON'T pay attention to that. I think psychotherapy can be very helpfull to prevent relapse once you've sorted out the chemical issues, but it is rarely a solution. My belief is that while you are feeling very depressed psychotherapy can be counterproductive as it just digs out things that are painful. Also many psychologists have been trained in the 'reason over emotions' school of thought, and they believe that you always have control over your thoughts, emotions, and so ultimately over your happiness. This is such an over simplistic and outdated view. Their aim is to empower you, but when you have been seriously struggling for years to help yourself they just make you feel guilty. I speak from personal experience, having grown up in a family of psychologists.

A few weeks ago I was in despair and felt hopeless and now I have finally found a psychiatrist that tells me that I have clear chemical (neurotransmitter) imbalances an this has led to me learning certain behaviours as a way of coping with my unhappiness (e.g. social withdrawal, binge eating). I've internalised these behaviours for so long they have become ingrained- we need to find the medication that works, get me feeling better, and then put mt through therapy and cbt to prevent repalse. I know you have not had much luck with medication, but have you thought about trying to find a different psychiatrist? The last psychiatrist I saw told me I would have to learn to live with being this way, and so cbt was my best bet. In desperation I dug into my savings and went to the top dog and he said that's silly, of course I don't have to live with this, and has come up with treatment plan A & B, and has put me in touch with other patients with similar symptoms that are doing JUST GREAT on medication. It's early days, but he's given me so much hope.

There'll be someone that can help you, but sometimes it takes so long to find it wears you out completely. I know about that. But don't give up.

Ines

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by bulldog2 on April 29, 2007, at 12:54:27

In reply to Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

> Firstly I would like to thank you all for your messages over the last few days. They have been a life-saver.
> I am beginning to think that you who respond to treatment are naturally quite extravert and fun people but suffer from this illness.
> However, I feel i am just a depressive person. I have always tended to be very quiet and school, would be scared to put my hand up to answer a question. I am no fun at all. I hardly speak to people to bring up a conversation and the only thing i enjoyed at school was homework.
> May be this is why antidepressants dont work for me. Im not an optimist like you all. My whole being is of reservation and introversion and that doesn't make for a happy life.
> I have tried CBT and psychoanalysis but you can't change the person you were born to be.

Peter Kramer talks about this in his book "Listening to Prozac". There are people who are born with rejection sensitive personalities. This leads to always being in a state of high stress which can bring on depression. Regardless of wether you are born with certain traits should have nothing to do with your outcome with ads. Peter Kramer has had good outcomes in these cases. Basically we're a product of our brain chemistry and experiences. The right combo of meds can alter that. Rejection sensitivity seems to repsond well to maois.

 

Re: Am I just a depressive person

Posted by chiron on April 29, 2007, at 14:57:45

In reply to Re: Am I just a depressive person, posted by bulldog2 on April 29, 2007, at 12:54:27

> Peter Kramer talks about this in his book "Listening to Prozac".

Jenny,
This is also the book that I thought of when I read your post. It gives experiences how personality characteristics can do a 180 just by taking a drug. Of course the problem is getting that drug that will work for you, and hoping that it exists. But new drugs will come out as well.

I have been depressed for as long as I can remember, I am a little shy initially, and I am very sensitive, but I can be more of an extravert in certain situations. My depression still lingers and I seem to be treatment resistant so far. I feel your pain, hang in there with us as we search for answers.

 

Re: Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change

Posted by jenny80 on April 29, 2007, at 16:38:29

In reply to Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change, posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 28, 2007, at 22:24:58

Thank you for your kind messages. I will try and tell you a bit about myself and my treatment so far so you may be able to suggest something for me.

I am 26 now. I remember being very withdrawn, quiet and shy as a child. I would spend most of my time working but did have a few friends and don't remember feeling depressed. There was a period when i was 11 years when i decided i did not want to participate in my usual hobbies. i don't know why but i just remember feeling so scared to go to my ballet or gym class and would cry if anyone made me go. I guess thats when it started.
I went away to Uni and became very anxious about being away from home. I am very dependent on my parents and became extremely depressed at the though of having to mix with new people and cope on my own. I used to feel tired all the time, had no motivation to do any work, and became self-neglectful in terms of taking care of my self. in the afternoons after classes i would go back to my room lie in bed and stare at the walls.
I developed a preoccupation with my looks and decided i was ugly. I then spent hours checking my appearance, looking at ways of having plastic surgery. It became my life.
I started to see a psych who tried me citalopram and venlafaxine. I was on venlafaxine for 2 years. It not do anything. It was augmented for a while with sulpiride and buspirone which again did not work. I had CBT for body dysmorphic disorder but did not feel i was as ill as other people in the group.
This pattern continued for 5 years with a 1 year period where i started to lose weight to the point i was anorexic and bulimic. I managed to turn this one around however and i don't suffer with this anymore.
One day after i finished my degree i went to a wedding with my ex-bofriend and was surrounded by happy people not caring about the way they looked. I decided that day that i did not want to waste my life bothered about my looks.
The following day i woke up feeling awful. I did not know what to do with myself. I no longer had this preoccupation with my looks but i did not feel happy ! I realised that all this time i had been blaming my feelings on my looks. It wasn't about my looks it was about me.
This spiralled me into a deep depression. I went into hospital for a week was started on mirtazapine which did not work. I would feel total despair, that i was worthless and trapped in the situation.
Somehow i forced myself to carry on with my work. Since then i have seen a could of docs. I started escitalopram, fluoxetine augmnented with lamatrogine, duloxetine (could not handle side effect so quit after 2 weeks), thyroxine, quetiapine. Lately, my doc has decided that maybe drugs wont work for me and i just need to have talk therapy. The psychologgist i'm seeing does psychoanalytic therapy. She seems to want to find times in the past that my parents or certain situations may have triggered this. Last week she told me that I seemed triumphant that none of medications worked, she said i was acting like a 12 year old not knowing what i should do. She said that if i wanted to lie in bed all day and not go to work then thats what i should do. I said to her 'but i will lose my job' and she sait i always use 'buts'. I left feeling worthless. As if i have all these personality flaws which i should be able to just change.
I recently was on parnate 10 mg three times a day. This made me anorexic, drowsy and unable to think properly. It also worsened my depression. I would get cold shivers which were unbearable. At night i would become hot and unable to sleep.
I then tried nardil and 15 mg three times a day. Had similar symptoms. The worse being the freezing cold sensations, and insomnia. I would be so hot and restless at night i would have to leave the fan on all night. I stopped nardil after 2 weeks. Since stopping it cold turkey i have become profoundly depressed and agitated. I have only slept 2 hours a night since.
I basically am losing hope. I feel that the chancs of me finding something let alone something that will last are hopeless.
I hope you may be able to suggest something else for me. My depression is characterised by chronic low mood, anhedonia and low motivation. I tend to withdraw from people. My sleep normally is fine but i tend to be tired a lot and don't bother to feed myself or look after myself.
My family are very supportive however do not know how i feel. They think that medication tends to make me worse and that i should acheive the unimaginable through diet and exercise which i have tried but did not help.
Thank you all so much. You are truely kind people. I would like to leave my email address but feel i cannot for annonimity.

 

Re: Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change

Posted by Ines on April 29, 2007, at 18:11:00

In reply to Re: Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change, posted by jenny80 on April 29, 2007, at 16:38:29

Jenny, it sounds like your psychotherapist was trying to 'shock' you or shake you into taking action. It's a tactic, I'm pretty sure he/she didn't mean to make you feel inadequate. At any rate, it sounds like the dynamic between you isn't right- a psychotherapist should make you feel comfortable and certainly never judged, so unless you are finding it helpful maybe you should consider changing?
This is just a thought- obviously I don't know you or your circumstances, but could it be you're bailing out on medication trials too soon? I always find the first few weeks are horrible because you have all the side effects and no effect on mood (or even a worsening of mood through agitation), but if you can stick it through a lot of the side effects wear off or attenuate for most people. It sounds to me like your depression is bad enough for it to be worth putting up even with major side effects to give something like Nardil or Parnate or Venlafaxine a proper trial. Think of how you'd feel after two months if the medication worked- it would all be worth it; perhaps if you focused on that thought you'd be able to stick through the side effects no matter how unpleasant....It's just a thought... Also wanted to say I have a friend with symptoms strikingly similar to yours and she's doing well on a combination of citalopram, cognitive analytical therapy and mindfulness training.
Ines

 

I'm glad you're still here jenny80

Posted by Racer on April 30, 2007, at 0:58:18

In reply to Re: Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change, posted by jenny80 on April 29, 2007, at 16:38:29

>
> I would like to leave my email address but feel i cannot for annonimity.
>

One of the great features of this site is BabbleMail -- it allows you to receive private messages at the email address you used to register, without divulging your email address to anyone else. It's great. All you would have to do is to go back to the registration page and update your registration to turn BabbleMail on. It's optional, but if you are interested in private conversations, as well as the public posts, it's an option you might want to use.

I'll also put in a plug for the Psychology board here, which is where people discuss issues related to therapy. There's a lot of knowledge over there, along with a lot of awfully nice people.

Meanwhile, don't give up hope. Remember that it's very common to experience a rebound depression when stopping anti-depressants. It is likely to pass, putting you back to baseline soon.

Now, on to medications! They're a pain in the patootie, and often you have to ride the Medication Go Round for a while to find the right answer, but it's often worth it. Let's see, what did you mention in your post?

Parnate
Nardil
Venlafaxine
Citalopram
Sulpiride
Buspirone
Mirtazapine
Escitalopram
Duloxetine
Quetiapine
Fluoxetine
Lamatrogine

OK, so you've tried three SSRIs, two MAOIs, both SNRIs, a novel AD, and a couple of augmenting agents. That leaves more than a few options, including combinations which might do more to help you. What would help a lot, though, is if you could be a bit more specific about the drugs -- how long were you taking them, what dosage, what did they do, what side effects, etc. That helps a lot, because if you have Adverse Effect A, someone can say, "Oh, I had that, and this is what helped," or "Hey -- that sounds like me! Here's what works for me." Just from looking at your list, though, I notice you haven't tried Wellbutrin -- although with your history of bulimia, it might not be a good choice. A tricyclic might help, maybe desipramine. Or a different SSRI -- they are all just different enough that it's often worth trying all of them. I've tried them all, and have had luck with some, and nightmare experiences on others.

Also, sometimes adjuncts like Buspar can actually increase depressive symptoms. It was the very best anxiolytic I've ever taken -- but it increased my depressive symptoms so much I couldn't function. It's always worth making changes one at a time, just to avoid too many variables. I know that seems basic, but you'd be surprised how often it doesn't happen that way.

Now, this is the really sucky part: in order to find something which works, you really and truly have to give these drugs time. It is horrible, during the time you take them you may feel as though life isn't worth living, that no drug will ever work, that the drugs are worse than the disorder itself -- but when you find something that works, it really and truly is worth it. It is likely you won't find relief for several months, but it's worth giving it a try. And don't assume that your start up effects will last. Mostly, they last only as long as it takes your body to adjust to being on them. Often, about two months.

I hope there was something in there that was helpful to you. Good luck.

 

Go to Yahoo and create a new email w/o name jenny80

Posted by UgottaHaveHope on April 30, 2007, at 3:13:21

In reply to Re: Jenny, dont give up hope: People DO change, posted by jenny80 on April 29, 2007, at 16:38:29

Then you can post it in here and converse with others through that. Babblemail is the best though.

 

Re: I'm glad you're still here

Posted by jenny80 on April 30, 2007, at 16:45:22

In reply to I'm glad you're still here jenny80, posted by Racer on April 30, 2007, at 0:58:18

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your messages.

These are the medications i have tried so far:

Citalopram 3 months at i think 20 mg od.
Venlafaxine 225 mg 2 years
mirtazapine 15 mg 4 weeks
Fluoextine 20 mg 4 weeks
escitalopram 10 mg 6 weeks with lamotrigine 100 mg
nardil 15 mg tds and parnate 10 mg tds both only 2 weeks
I hope i have the information right from what i can remember.
I have to say that none of the medication did anything for me.
Nardil and parnate made me depression worse. Felt as if i had lost the ability to speak. The worse part was the hot and cold shivers. Im a cold person anyway and it was horrible.
I read from a post by anita that the temperature effects for her never went away even after 2 years of taking the medication. Not sure if it an amphetamine type reaction.
Anyway, hope you can help me. I am going to see a new psych in london next wed and see what he recommends.
I think may be SSRI's are useless for me. May augmented with olanzapine or other antipsycotic may help.
J x

 

I'm not an optimist like you all jenny80

Posted by Declan on May 1, 2007, at 3:06:21

In reply to Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

Hello Jenny

>I am no fun at all<

That's touching.

I don't want to bore the socks off you by telling you to love your depression, but I have found that what I thought was a debility has had some redeeming value and is an important and valuable part of me. I have reservations about people deciding (according to what criteria?) that such and such a quality they have is unacceptable.

But what can I say that makes any difference? Tell you to read "The Ugly Duckling"?
Some people *are* more reserved than others.
We live in a culture that prizes certain qualities and devalues others.
My opinion of our culture is not so high I think that is worth it.

I'm 54. I have been introverted and reserved (if dogmatic) all my life.
I'm not saying anything in particular, just go with the flow.

 

Re: I'm not an optimist like you all jenny80

Posted by Quintal on May 1, 2007, at 14:07:15

In reply to Am I just a depressive person, posted by jenny80 on April 28, 2007, at 16:38:30

Your story sounds very similar to mine Jenny. I'm in the UK and eaten my way through almost the entire pharmacopoeia. My last psychiatrist discharged me because he didn't believe there was anything really wrong with me. At first I took that to mean he thought I was imagining my problems and presenting them in way I knew could be diagnosed as a mental illness. Maybe he did, and maybe I was, but he left me with a few parting words that helped me take a different viewpoint. He said he didn't doubt my suffering and maladjustment, but denied I was actually mentally ill. He thought that drugs used to treat mental illness were more likely to aggravate emotional disturbance rather than help with this, long-term. That would be a very unusual viewpoint for a pdoc in the US where they get $$$$$ from every appointment and free samples from drug companies, but it's one that seems fairly common among pdocs on the NHS. I despised him for it at the time, but once I cooled a little I saw that most of what he said was true.

I've noticed the uninitiated often think antidepressants work on our mood something like the way Valium works on anxiety - ideally the true antidepressant would make you feel happy soon after taking it, perhaps wearing off at the end of the day or after a few hours until you took the next pill. You'll have noticed that no antidepressant in the psychiatrist's armoury actually works like this? Fortunately such pills do exist and they're on sale at your local pharmacy................ I use Paramol and Nurofen Plus for about three weeks out of every month and they're the best pharmaceutical solution I've found so far. I'd recommend you give them a try, certainly before attempting suicide anyway. I buy mine from a (legal) online retail pharmacy here: http://www.pharmacy2u.co.uk/details.asp?productid=FMPAT32.

Opiates are the closest thing you'll get to optimism in a bottle. They don't make all problems seem to disappear or make me feel invincible like benzos did, the world's still the same place, but as with people who take opiates for physical pain sometimes say, I can still feel the pain but now I can deal with it - it no longer cripples me.

On the optimism thing, I agree with Declan. Some people are (maybe necessarily) more pessimistic than others. Forced optimism doesn't seem like a good philosophy for someone with a low threshold for disappointment. There's at least one former poster here whose militant optimism I suspected was paradoxically reinforcing to his life-long treatment resistant depression. Pessimism can be liberating at times, so I've found :-)

Q


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