Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 746913

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ABANDONED DESERTED

Posted by Fivefires on April 4, 2007, at 17:24:19

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS, posted by Cynthia_Greene on April 4, 2007, at 14:30:00

I have been on Remeron (cotton ball head feeling) and I just got off Lexapro (ineffective) a few months back.

I thank both Racer & CynthiaGreene for at least having the guts to express how they feel.

My hands shake w/ tremor.

I had a freakin' nervous breakdown 2yrs ago, for God's sake!

Does no one see GAD as a separate illness from depression?

I know of two people who I was hoping would respond here w/ their knowledge.

My family want 'the old me back' .... the one b4 all the freakin' abuse and abandonment.

Why must every1 see this as depression?

Is any1 gonna' help me w/ the original ? pleeeezzzzzzzzzzzz? I just saw you post re: benzos recently.

Is there some reason 4 not responding to me?

Please, please don't let me feel UR doing as my family has done.

They took both my homes, haven't visited me in over 10yrs. They NEVER even call me on the phone! There is large number of them .. 20+!

They are all well-to-do w/o emotional probs'.

Mot*er inherited much when I lost my best friend, my D*d, and 'she has outed me'.

His last word was my name.

She built a beautiful home on the freakin' land she was born and named it after herself!

She's taken everything I loved from me.

My fam' of origin don't dare stand beside me or they may ... well I think u can figure that one out.

Come on; I'm all alone here.

I've been super mom and super wife and I've run marathons. My three children are works of art. I have survived in the fast lane.

But I did toooo much under duress; hence breakdown.

First my central nervous system, like the metal that holds up all the other systems, which were then beginning to crumble too. What saved me was Valium.

Please don't turn this into a courtroom.

All I am asking for is help w/ the pharmacodynamics of these two anxiolytics.

5f


 

Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Fivefires

Posted by Racer on April 4, 2007, at 18:20:04

In reply to ABANDONED DESERTED, posted by Fivefires on April 4, 2007, at 17:24:19

>
>
> I thank both Racer & CynthiaGreene for at least having the guts to express how they feel.

You're welcome. I think.

>
> My hands shake w/ tremor.
>
> I had a freakin' nervous breakdown 2yrs ago, for God's sake!
>
> Does no one see GAD as a separate illness from depression?


Yes, it's different. Maybe you're right, maybe the distinct flavor of your posts is not related to any depression, maybe it is entirely anxiety.

Even so, I think that benzos are too mild to do what you seem to need. I think there are better medications out there -- including both SSRIs and atypical APs. They work. My own experience with benzos colors this -- I dissociate long before I'm calmed by them, and I have had the paradoxical agitation from them (although I don't remember, since I couldn't form memories at the time...)

I guess I'm wondering two things right now: why, if there's one particular person you'd like an answer from, you don't ask for it openly? That's allowed, and it would probably get a response. And why you're set on benzos, rather than on some other options?

Then again, it sounded to me as though you didn't want my input, so those questions are basically academic.

Good luck.

 

Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Fivefires

Posted by Quintal on April 4, 2007, at 19:42:07

In reply to ABANDONED DESERTED, posted by Fivefires on April 4, 2007, at 17:24:19

Sorry Fivefires, multiple babblemails go straight to my bulkmail box for some reason and I don't always see them at first. What dose of Librium are you taking?

The usual equivalence is given as 10mg valium = 25mg Librium. Librium is the weakest benzo and not often used these days besides alcohol/benzo detox. Itis no wonder your anxiety is not properly controlled on Librium, nor is it surprising you feel relief from Xanax because it is one of the most potent benzos; 0.5mg Xanax = 10mg Valium (although some sources claim 1mg Xanax to 10mg Valium).

Here is a benzo equivalence chart so you can see for yourself how they compare: http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#24

Q

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Fivefires

Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2007, at 19:45:57

In reply to FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS, posted by Fivefires on April 4, 2007, at 14:12:12

Five Fires years ago in my 20's when first panic. I tried librium after valium and found it to much weaker. Love Phillipa/ Jan

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Racer

Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2007, at 19:49:33

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Fivefires, posted by Racer on April 4, 2007, at 16:43:59

Racer I don't get how zyprexa three days a month could do that? What the half-life? Love Phillipa/ Jan

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS

Posted by greywolf on April 4, 2007, at 22:36:01

In reply to FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS, posted by Fivefires on April 4, 2007, at 14:12:12


I think you ought to be looking to do something about the depression component in all of this. It sounds like you've got some depression-induced anxiety (there's a more technical term for this, but I can't recall it offhand), and just taking a benzo isn't going to provide much relief.

With the amount of anxiety you're experiencing in the evenings, maybe you should try trazodone or a mild AP like Seroquel, and then try to keep the benzos at a moderate dosage. I'd recommend talking to your doctor about trazodone first. I know when I was on it I had absolutely no night time anxiety.

Greywolf

 

Re: ABANDONED DESERTED

Posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2007, at 23:06:22

In reply to Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Fivefires, posted by Racer on April 4, 2007, at 18:20:04

Five Fires you ran a marathon? When and you never told me you were athletic. Congrats on that it was always my dream. Rand l3.5 miles once in snow and ice when in CT. Love Phillipa/ Jan

 

Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Racer

Posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 4:05:37

In reply to Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Fivefires, posted by Racer on April 4, 2007, at 18:20:04

> >
> >
> > I thank both Racer & CynthiaGreene for at least having the guts to express how they feel.
>
> You're welcome. I think.
>
> >
>

U think right.

> My hands shake w/ tremor.
> >
> > I had a freakin' nervous breakdown 2yrs ago, for God's sake!
> >
> > Does no one see GAD as a separate illness from depression?
>
>
> Yes, it's different. Maybe you're right, maybe the distinct flavor of your posts is not related to any depression, maybe it is entirely anxiety.
>
> Even so, I think that benzos are too mild to do what you seem to need.>
>

My P suggested minor tranquilizers and I said no.

>I think there are better medications out there -- including both SSRIs and atypical APs. They work. My own experience with benzos colors this -- I dissociate long before I'm calmed by them, and I have had the paradoxical agitation from them (although I don't remember, since I couldn't form memories at the time...)
>

I know what dissociate means R, and I don't do that at all on them. Maybe it is because it's been soooo many years that I've been on them. Instead, I AM CALMED. My tremors got really bad when I went into a DBT group for the first time beginning of week. They aren't too bad unless I am in an unfamiliar environment.

> I guess I'm wondering two things right now: why, if there's one particular person you'd like an answer from, you don't ask for it openly? That's allowed, and it would probably get a response.>
>

I did ask and haven't heard from them.

> And why you're set on benzos, rather than on some other options?
>

They have been the only thing to help me. A suggestion by my P of a minor tranq' scares me, so I wanted to get as close to this as I could w/o going there. I've tried so many ADs, anti-psychotics, mood stabilizers, and on and on and on, and they either don't alleviate anxiety or they actually heighten it. I often have an increase in ideation, a placated zombie feel, and I dissociate and am unable to form memories on them.(?)

> Then again, it sounded to me as though you didn't want my input, so those questions are basically academic.
>

I'm sorry I've made u feel I didn't want your input. I may be defensive and even near angry. I feel an undercurrent of pointing fingers and judgment.

Of course I want your input and I appreciate it.

> Good luck.

thanks, 5f

 

Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Quintal

Posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 4:31:45

In reply to Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Fivefires, posted by Quintal on April 4, 2007, at 19:42:07

OMG ... I really feel stewpit!(?)

Why didn't my P tell me this?

I thought Librium was a step up from Valium. It's a lot like it. MayB I am worse?(?)

I have a feeling X-XR is not covered under county, so if go w/ this, will prob' go w/ regular, taking into account fast metabolization.

Tks so much 4 direction to site Q.

It had actually occurred to me earlier I might find a site like that should I take the time to do it.(?) (What if I'm too stewpit to understand it?) May have to get back 2u after give it a look-see in a.m., well later a.m. Hope ok?

This info sheds a whole new light on my appt tomorrow afternoon.

Think can go to dreamland now w/ some hope instead of fear.

tks, 5f

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS

Posted by greywolf on April 5, 2007, at 5:04:27

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS, posted by greywolf on April 4, 2007, at 22:36:01


I agree that you have an obvious anxiety issue that must be resolved. But, IMHO, there appears to be a significant depressive element in what you describe in your posts. Whether it's GAD plus a form of depression or GAD alone is not something I would know.

I will say that I have dealt with bipolar for many years, and like many with BP, my life is dominated by the depressive element. Even so, I've had a couple serious breakdowns where anxiety was the acute symptom (one involving SI and months off from work), yet none of the psychiatrists and therapists have ever viewed it as GAD.

I suggested trazodone because it's an AD that's sometimes prescribed off-label for anxiety disorders. I am sorry if I offended you with my sense that this is more than just anxiety.

Greywolf

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Phillipa

Posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 13:55:20

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Fivefires, posted by Phillipa on April 4, 2007, at 19:45:57

Years ago, in reaction to a loved one going away, I had an awful feeling of an emptiness in my, well, I'll call it, my solar plexus, and I felt fearful and couldn't breathe well. Now I know I was hyperventilating. My parents took me to hospital and meds were prescribed by a P.

'Back then' Valium knocked me out and just put me to sleep.

(Yet now, many years later, after being on nearly all anxiolytics, it worked so well, it literally saved my life.)

Oh, and 'back then', Librium, instead of causing fatigue, allowed me to carry on, stiffling the emptiness and hyperventilating.

I then was able to 'move on' ... went to college blah blah.

Sometimes I feel u & I might have very similar problems, but maybe our 'physical make up' NOT? Do you think so?

I'm thinking it was probably 10mg of Valium back then, but can't be sure.

Loveu2, 5f

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS

Posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 14:43:08

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Phillipa, posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 13:55:20

I think it depends upon what you mean by 'weaker' re: Val or Lib.

I guess u could say Vali*m is stronger ... but it was so strong it put me to sleep.

5f

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS greywolf

Posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 15:54:27

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS, posted by greywolf on April 5, 2007, at 5:04:27

I don't know Greywolf ...

Is 'grief' depression?

No sorry needed at all. No offense taken.

Again, all opinions appreciated.

You've got a knack for being the one to spot the pheasant or the mushroom, or whatever 'hunters' are looking for! An eye for detail. RU into art?

5f

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Fivefires

Posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2007, at 18:34:03

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS greywolf, posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 15:54:27

Five Fires I didn't realize you'd been on antipsychtics before? And didn't effexor help you a lot and lyrica? Love Phillipa

 

Thank you Fivefires

Posted by Racer on April 6, 2007, at 1:29:28

In reply to Re: ABANDONED DESERTED Racer, posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 4:05:37

The hardest part of this place is that it's hard to know what to think sometimes without the body language to read, too. I appreciate your taking the time to clarify where we were.

When you say "minor tranqs," I'm not sure what you mean? Benzos are tranquilizers, aren't they? What sort of medication do you mean by that? (Serious question, since I'm not sure of the differences between "sedative," "tranquilizer," etc.)

Take care.

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS

Posted by greywolf on April 6, 2007, at 2:20:48

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS greywolf, posted by Fivefires on April 5, 2007, at 15:54:27

> I don't know Greywolf ...
>
> Is 'grief' depression?
>
> No sorry needed at all. No offense taken.
>
> Again, all opinions appreciated.
>
> You've got a knack for being the one to spot the pheasant or the mushroom, or whatever 'hunters' are looking for! An eye for detail. RU into art?
>
> 5f

I love art, though I can't draw much more than a stick figure myself ;)

As to grief, I'm sure you are aware that grief is a natural response, generally to an event involving a significant loss. If the grief and the grieving period are reasonable in proportion to the loss (and yes, reasonableness and proportion are wide open questions), then I would not think the grief involved is linked to a depressive disorder.

Put another way, I suffer from depression virtually every day of my life, except those several days each month when I pop into an almost different life at the other extreme. Can I still feel grief from a loss without that necessarily being considered a worsening facet of my underlying depression? Sure, though the grief circumstance may require a temporary adjustment in treatment to reflect added anxiety or a more serious low end to my spectrum during that time period.

I apologize if I did not recognize a discussion of grief you are experiencing. I sometimes wrongly assume that what's stated in the post I'm responding to sums up what's pertinent, not realizing that I may be joining a much longer or more-involved conversation than is reflected in just that one post.

Greywolf

 

Re: Thank you Racer

Posted by Fivefires on April 6, 2007, at 11:01:58

In reply to Thank you Fivefires, posted by Racer on April 6, 2007, at 1:29:28

Racer just lost my post .. hate it blah blah blah.

Anyway, I'm more confused about this now also.

My P said Haldol (something I freaked out at the mention of) was a minor tranq, but in

http://www.benzo.org.uk/manual/bzcha01.htm#24

it is listed as a benzodiazepine and I believe benzodiazepines are considered anxiolytics, so I don't get it either.

Maybe it's just verbage.

Any1 know?

don'tfollowme .. ha, 5f

 

Re: Thank you Fivefires

Posted by Quintal on April 6, 2007, at 11:20:20

In reply to Re: Thank you Racer, posted by Fivefires on April 6, 2007, at 11:01:58

Haldol isn't listed on that chart 5f, I think you might mean halazepam, which is a different drug. Haldol (haloperidol) is a major tranquillizer - an antipsychotic. I personally wouldn't want to take it either. Benzos are usually classified as 'minor tranquillizers'.

Q

 

Re: Thank you

Posted by elanor roosevelt on April 7, 2007, at 22:28:54

In reply to Re: Thank you Fivefires, posted by Quintal on April 6, 2007, at 11:20:20

buspar will get you through the constant anxiety
it's difficult when you are dealing with fear so constantly
but it will just help for transition
it's not a med for moving forward
to get by the fear you must find a way to get your head turned to a positive sense future
the right med and some cognitive therapy
good luck

 

Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS

Posted by Fivefires on April 8, 2007, at 16:10:25

In reply to Re: FEAR WEAK NEEDY FORGOTTEN USELESS Fivefires, posted by Phillipa on April 5, 2007, at 18:34:03

Yes, Phillipa.

I've tried a handful of anti-psychotics.

The two docs that looked at each other and chuckled when I asked 'what is a nervous breakdown?' in the hospital 2yrs back put me on Trileptal and either Zyprexa or Seroquel (?) AWA Valium. I gained 20lbs, 4x my normal weight, and could barely breathe, so dc'd.

When tried these at other times suggested 4 their anxiolytic effect, besides the prior effect, I refer to my notes and have 'headache' and 'cotton ball head' written down.

AFA Effexor-XR, it helped me, I think, the 1st two stints, the last three (I know!) times I reached for it again, those stints weren't good, mayB had developed a tolerance. It was suggested I get up to the 300mg dosage and doing this just didn't sit right w/ me.

My reasons for dc'ing some meds may not seem right to some, but to me they are important.

At some point, I may again chose to try something like Seroquel in a small dosage only at bedtime.

I came home from P past week w/ trazodone for sleep, but the jury's out. Need to post.

5f

 

Minor Tranquilizers Quintal

Posted by Fivefires on April 8, 2007, at 16:43:10

In reply to Re: Thank you Fivefires, posted by Quintal on April 6, 2007, at 11:20:20

I understand, I think.

Minor tranquilizers and benzodiazepines one and same?? Are they, as well as major tranquilizers, all considered anxiolytics? Guess this is rhetoric.

Guess I could quit asking ?s and go googling by myself.

Nahhhh, I like talking 2u all too much!

And yeah, must have thought Halcion, Haldol on first look.

appreciate, 5f

 

Re: Minor Tranquilizers Fivefires

Posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2007, at 9:33:58

In reply to Minor Tranquilizers Quintal, posted by Fivefires on April 8, 2007, at 16:43:10

> I understand, I think.
>
> Minor tranquilizers and benzodiazepines one and same?? Are they, as well as major tranquilizers, all considered anxiolytics? Guess this is rhetoric.

It is rhetoric. And it's an old classification system, quite arbitrary in form.

Benzos and barbiturates were minor tranquilizers, whereas what we now call antipsychotics were the major tranquilizers (e.g. Mellaril, Haldol). Major tranquilizers were also known as neuroleptics, which means literally "grabbing the mind", in the context of suppressing psychosis.

Anxiolytics are not the same as tranquilizers, but you'd probably have to split hairs to assert that.

Lar

 

Re: Minor Tranquilizers

Posted by Fivefires on April 10, 2007, at 18:54:07

In reply to Re: Minor Tranquilizers Fivefires, posted by Larry Hoover on April 10, 2007, at 9:33:58

Tks for explanations every1. This is a good thread, not sure who/what/where started.

Hope all having good day ... feeling fine on this end.

Besides missing Zelnorm (Novartis pulled it off the shelves re: heart prob' in someone w/ already existing heart probs.), I'm on Xanax (Can go up to 2mg 3x a day, but don't always feel need. Other times do.), small dose of Lyrica (75mg at sleep), and levothyroxine (.075).

Having blood tests done (a bunch of stuff) tomorrow.

Have asked nurse Phillipa if she'll give results a 'once over' for me.

I've always been anemic, but haven't found anything to alleviate w/o causing 'no poop-ability'.

Don't see any contraindications to benzo and trazodone (though still not sure want/need) on epocrates.

I was surprised to see benzos and SSRIs can cause 'a serotonin affect' .. something like this. (What is this?) I've been on the two together often in the past.

Anyway, really a good website, just need to figure out how to use it properly.

takecareall, 5f

 

Re: Minor Tranquilizers Fivefires

Posted by Phillipa on April 10, 2007, at 19:30:32

In reply to Re: Minor Tranquilizers, posted by Fivefires on April 10, 2007, at 18:54:07

Five Fires in no way am I an expert on meds. I am a novice trying to learn and can only tell you a classification or what not. Can't prescribe or even say a med is safe for you as we all are differant. Love Phillipa

 

Re: Minor Tranquilizers

Posted by Fivefires on April 10, 2007, at 22:45:19

In reply to Re: Minor Tranquilizers Fivefires, posted by Phillipa on April 10, 2007, at 19:30:32

Phillipa, I think I was just talking about lab results; especially thyroid; as u seem to be knowledgeable of 'within normal limit ranges'.

5f


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