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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:20:00
Hi all,
I've been through three, severe depressions in my life. I'm now 37, and haven't had an episode since I was 27 (touch wood).
I've been on Prozac for 14 years, plus Klonopin PRN for anxiety (~.5mg every two weeks-not a lot). Also Ritalin 80mg/day for
ADD. Anyway, although I have not had a depression, per se, for over a decade, I have come close. My depressions are
triggered by loss, usually, and before each episode--or potential episode, I experience this chilling anxiety where it feels
as if my blood cools down; my extremities become tingly, and I literally have a sinking feeling--and abject, existential,
insufferable anxiety.
I have been able to--I believe--thwart many would-be depressions by taking an mg of clonazepam sublingually when I feel this
downward spiral. Doing so arrests the anxiety that, in my experience, is the "kindling" that becomes an inferno of
depression. In the past ten years, this has happened maybe twenty or thirty times, and the causes vary, but mostly it
happens after months of being careless about taking my Prozac; I wake up on a gloomy Sunday, feeling melancholic about
various things, and it comes over me like a wave of prickly pins of panic.
I am VERY grateful that clonazepam has been the saving grace it has seemed to be in these situations. Moreover, it only ever
takes a 1mg tablet to thwart the spiral; I never feel it "wear off," because, I suppose, by the time that drug's long
half-life has approached, I am in a different state of mind. Indeed, almost always, these would-be depression are blessings.
That is, they always give me the kick in the pants I need to address things in my life that certainly contribute to my
susceptibility to depression. For example, the last time it happened, theh horror of coming so close to depression made me
swallow the pride that had been preventing me from talking things out with a family member by whom I felt hurt and neglected.
Another time, the close-call motivated me to get more serious about looking for a new job (as I hate my current one). But,
as thankful as I am that I am spared full-on depression, I also lament the all the briefness of panicky motivation that the
potential depression caused. There's nothing like that kind of motivation for me--it makes me do things I know I should, but
would otherwise not. It's as if my life carries on in a confining--but cool--frying pan, and I am "happy" to stay there in
spite of my unhappiness. Then, when a depression threatens, it's as if the burner is turned on; I scramble and jump and do
whatever it takes to escape. Sometimes I question how "lucky" I really am, being so capable of extinguishing the heat (with
clonazepam). But I always conclude that I'd rather live the rest of my life in my bland, relatively unhappy, cool pan, than
to risk a depression that could ruin me completely.
Yes, very all-or-nothing, but I honestly don't feel as if made or make it this way. This is how my "wellness" has always
been; absolutely utopian compared to depression, but achingly deficient of joy, risk, passion, and all of the things that
make life what it probably ought to be. I've posted about this before over the years, and quite naturally have gotten advice
about considering changing ADs. But tampering with the drug that has ostensibly kept depression at bay for so long is
unthinkable. So, perhaps I have made my own jail--my own all-or-nothing situation. I don't know. The one bit of advice I
remember being so sensible was from someone whose situation was similar to mine. He said that he'd sometimes titrate down
his Prozac for a time--until he was close enough to the fire to get motivated/passionate/serious/committed but not so close
that he'd be consumed by the flames. And I suppose when I "forget" to take my Prozac many times a month, that I am trying to
do what he advised.
I had no intention of writing all of this! For the record, I'd been in psychotherapy for 11 years, but stopped going many
years ago. I'm considering that route again, too, but wanted to post here, too.
One thing that really scares me is that I suspect that my "cool pan" --aside from being a joyless place--is not even
something on which I can always depend. That is, when and if a "real" trauma hits me (death of a loved one, etc.), I don't
think a tablet of klonopin under my tongue and taking my prozac every day would prevent my grief from segueing into a
hellish, sunless depression.
Anything anyone might have to say is welcomed--even if it's of the "you lazy, self-indugent cad" variety. I am just so tired
of being in this comfortable but souless limbo.
J
Posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2007, at 21:23:56
In reply to Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:20:00
I think you're very lucky to have found a regime that seems to work for you. Love Phillipa
Posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:33:00
In reply to Re: Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell » University, posted by Phillipa on April 7, 2007, at 21:23:56
Thanks, Phillipa.
I do realize I'm lucky in a lot of ways. I know that there are people in serious, protracted depressions out there who would give a limb to have my "peace of mind." Indeed, I WAS one of those people. I remember, all too well, thinking that I WOULD give a limb--or an eye, kidney, whatever--to get out of a depression.
So I hope I don't sound like I'm whining, but I guess we all want happiness--not just the mere absence of depression in exchange for a sort of indifferent complacency...
Posted by notfred on April 7, 2007, at 21:45:39
In reply to Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:20:00
Could you restate what it is you don't like/want to change ? Sorry, I am not following.
You mentioned slacking on your Prozac and having negative effects. The stove is hot and will burn you, how many times do you need to be burned to stop
touching it ?
Posted by sleepygirl on April 7, 2007, at 21:48:07
In reply to Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:20:00
well, I did enjoy your writing :-)
sometimes I would like to stop taking the meds
but I don't
because I am afraid that I won't be able to handle tomorrow
but somedays I just want to "feel"
so the question is why mess with what's working?
I don't know....I'll likely find a reason soonwell, best of health to you
-sg> Hi all,
>
> I've been through three, severe depressions in my life. I'm now 37, and haven't had an episode since I was 27 (touch wood).
>
> I've been on Prozac for 14 years, plus Klonopin PRN for anxiety (~.5mg every two weeks-not a lot). Also Ritalin 80mg/day for
>
> ADD. Anyway, although I have not had a depression, per se, for over a decade, I have come close. My depressions are
>
> triggered by loss, usually, and before each episode--or potential episode, I experience this chilling anxiety where it feels
>
> as if my blood cools down; my extremities become tingly, and I literally have a sinking feeling--and abject, existential,
>
> insufferable anxiety.
>
> I have been able to--I believe--thwart many would-be depressions by taking an mg of clonazepam sublingually when I feel this
>
> downward spiral. Doing so arrests the anxiety that, in my experience, is the "kindling" that becomes an inferno of
>
> depression. In the past ten years, this has happened maybe twenty or thirty times, and the causes vary, but mostly it
>
> happens after months of being careless about taking my Prozac; I wake up on a gloomy Sunday, feeling melancholic about
>
> various things, and it comes over me like a wave of prickly pins of panic.
>
> I am VERY grateful that clonazepam has been the saving grace it has seemed to be in these situations. Moreover, it only ever
>
> takes a 1mg tablet to thwart the spiral; I never feel it "wear off," because, I suppose, by the time that drug's long
>
> half-life has approached, I am in a different state of mind. Indeed, almost always, these would-be depression are blessings.
>
> That is, they always give me the kick in the pants I need to address things in my life that certainly contribute to my
>
> susceptibility to depression. For example, the last time it happened, theh horror of coming so close to depression made me
>
> swallow the pride that had been preventing me from talking things out with a family member by whom I felt hurt and neglected.
>
> Another time, the close-call motivated me to get more serious about looking for a new job (as I hate my current one). But,
>
> as thankful as I am that I am spared full-on depression, I also lament the all the briefness of panicky motivation that the
>
> potential depression caused. There's nothing like that kind of motivation for me--it makes me do things I know I should, but
>
> would otherwise not. It's as if my life carries on in a confining--but cool--frying pan, and I am "happy" to stay there in
>
> spite of my unhappiness. Then, when a depression threatens, it's as if the burner is turned on; I scramble and jump and do
>
> whatever it takes to escape. Sometimes I question how "lucky" I really am, being so capable of extinguishing the heat (with
>
> clonazepam). But I always conclude that I'd rather live the rest of my life in my bland, relatively unhappy, cool pan, than
>
> to risk a depression that could ruin me completely.
>
> Yes, very all-or-nothing, but I honestly don't feel as if made or make it this way. This is how my "wellness" has always
>
> been; absolutely utopian compared to depression, but achingly deficient of joy, risk, passion, and all of the things that
>
> make life what it probably ought to be. I've posted about this before over the years, and quite naturally have gotten advice
>
> about considering changing ADs. But tampering with the drug that has ostensibly kept depression at bay for so long is
>
> unthinkable. So, perhaps I have made my own jail--my own all-or-nothing situation. I don't know. The one bit of advice I
>
> remember being so sensible was from someone whose situation was similar to mine. He said that he'd sometimes titrate down
>
> his Prozac for a time--until he was close enough to the fire to get motivated/passionate/serious/committed but not so close
>
> that he'd be consumed by the flames. And I suppose when I "forget" to take my Prozac many times a month, that I am trying to
>
> do what he advised.
>
> I had no intention of writing all of this! For the record, I'd been in psychotherapy for 11 years, but stopped going many
>
> years ago. I'm considering that route again, too, but wanted to post here, too.
>
> One thing that really scares me is that I suspect that my "cool pan" --aside from being a joyless place--is not even
>
> something on which I can always depend. That is, when and if a "real" trauma hits me (death of a loved one, etc.), I don't
>
> think a tablet of klonopin under my tongue and taking my prozac every day would prevent my grief from segueing into a
>
> hellish, sunless depression.
>
> Anything anyone might have to say is welcomed--even if it's of the "you lazy, self-indugent cad" variety. I am just so tired
>
> of being in this comfortable but souless limbo.
>
> J
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 22:05:29
In reply to Re: Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell » University, posted by sleepygirl on April 7, 2007, at 21:48:07
Thanks, guys.
I'm sorry if I was vague--especially via such a long post. I guess I was rambling. In a nutshell, I feel as if the only source of motivation that has really affected me has derived from fear. And for me, the ultimate fear is of depression. I'm sure some of you'd agree with me that depression is worse than anything--except for, perhaps, depression AND cancer or something!!
Anyway, one, major manifestation of my problem is my failure to end a relationship I know is going nowhere--and never will--for fear that doing so will cause me to sink into depression. I know that sounds--among other things--very selfish. However, my boyfriend (of 4 years) is very content with the very light and, in my opinion, very un-deep, superficial relationship we have. It's not that he's a lightweight, but he's one of those people who's rather perpetually content--never brooding, suffering, and restless. We love each other, but, at least on my end, I feel SO deprived of any kind of deep, emotional connection to him. That sounds contradictory, but I find I love him dearly, but, to my continual surprise, don't have any passionate, deep connection to him. I've tried. We're just very different. Very different. Nevertheless, losing him, I fear, would be such a shock--such a change of context--that I'd become depressed. Still, I know it's going nowhere. It's the prime example of how everything in my life tends to be comfortable in the sense that there's no misery and pain, but there's no happiness, either. Does that make any sense?
Posted by sleepygirl on April 7, 2007, at 23:14:04
In reply to Re: Seems like it's always...))notfred/slpygrl, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 22:05:29
that makes a lot of sense to me
I'm sorry :-(
I wish it weren't so
-sg> Thanks, guys.
>
> I'm sorry if I was vague--especially via such a long post. I guess I was rambling. In a nutshell, I feel as if the only source of motivation that has really affected me has derived from fear. And for me, the ultimate fear is of depression. I'm sure some of you'd agree with me that depression is worse than anything--except for, perhaps, depression AND cancer or something!!
>
> Anyway, one, major manifestation of my problem is my failure to end a relationship I know is going nowhere--and never will--for fear that doing so will cause me to sink into depression. I know that sounds--among other things--very selfish. However, my boyfriend (of 4 years) is very content with the very light and, in my opinion, very un-deep, superficial relationship we have. It's not that he's a lightweight, but he's one of those people who's rather perpetually content--never brooding, suffering, and restless. We love each other, but, at least on my end, I feel SO deprived of any kind of deep, emotional connection to him. That sounds contradictory, but I find I love him dearly, but, to my continual surprise, don't have any passionate, deep connection to him. I've tried. We're just very different. Very different. Nevertheless, losing him, I fear, would be such a shock--such a change of context--that I'd become depressed. Still, I know it's going nowhere. It's the prime example of how everything in my life tends to be comfortable in the sense that there's no misery and pain, but there's no happiness, either. Does that make any sense?
Posted by chiron on April 8, 2007, at 0:50:58
In reply to Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:20:00
I see your dilemma. I've had the times when I briefly forget how close to the edge I am- then I quickly become humbled. I have been searching for a med routine and am getting so weary (most make me worse). So part of me would like to just have something that would at least help a little for a breather. But how I would love to find my magic potion, where I wouldn't hate living and might actually enjoy things. The only time I've felt that way was for a couple of weeks after an ECT series. I thought I would actually enjoy a hobby, and I actually enjoyed spending money. I often debate about whether it would be worth it to do ECT regularly if I could get those feelings to stick. No easy answers.
Posted by notfred on April 8, 2007, at 0:52:17
In reply to Re: Seems like it's always...))notfred/slpygrl, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 22:05:29
I think that a dead relationship can also trigger your depression. If you stay in a relationship that is not working for you I think it is a given that this is not healthy. Leaving might trigger a depression but long term I think you will do better. It sounds like to me you are willing to suffer long term in this relationship, fearing what **might** happen if you leave. Staying will suck. Leaving might suck short term. Your choice. Both mean pain, if you really do not think this relationship will ever work for you it seems the choice is clear.
To me this all screams that you need some therapy to learn some better coping skills, figure out what to do next and help you clarify you feelings about this relationship.
Posted by Squiggles on April 8, 2007, at 7:21:54
In reply to Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell, posted by University on April 7, 2007, at 21:20:00
I would ask my doctor to try lithium and
monitor it for a few months. If you feel
much better within a couple of weeks, maybe
that would be the right drug.Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2007, at 19:27:43
In reply to Re: Seems like it's always either Limbo or Hell, posted by Squiggles on April 8, 2007, at 7:21:54
As horrible as it is I agree with notfred as I have the same thing but at age 60 not that many choices. Love Phillipa ps young get out you will heal as my Daughter left her marriage after one year as her husband was a drug addict and today she's one happy camper and loving living by herself and could care less about guys and if she doesn't like them tells them to take a hike. I admire her. Love Phillipa
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