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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by nickguy on October 11, 2006, at 23:48:06
I hope this can be of some help for those who are stuck. These things may not get you unstuck, but might help your situation feel more workable.
1. I know you've probably heard this a million times, and some might even just close this post after seeing this, but if youve tried tons of medications with no sucess, and just feel like complete *ss, exercise. It's not going to cure your depression, but it gives you energy. Deep depression feels like your heart is not there, and your blood is not flowing. When you run on a treadmill, or do some aerobics, you feel your heart and the blood flowing. It's a good feeling, althuogh you'll still feel depressed. It gives you energy. Weight lifting gives you an outlet for your frustrating and anger over depression. It's a release. Pushing yourself this way physically helps you feel powerful. Even if just for a little while. Don't overdue it if your just starting, but eventually you can get in shape and positively suffer physically at the gym. Instead of cutting, you could push yourself to the limit running and lifting, and you can feel that physical pain that you might desire from cutting, but with benefits, and a newfound strength.
2. Deliberate positive thinking. It's not easy to think positive when you feel like sh*t, but you really do have the freedom to choose between positive and negative thoughts. Whether positive or negative, they're just thoughts. Think the thoughts that make you feel better mentally, even if your depressive emotions don't feel that way. It can keep you going. If you choose to believe the thought "Things will get better even if I feel like sh*t right now" you'll feel better than the thought "My life is over and i'll never get better." Choose positive thinking even if it disagrees with the way you feel. It may eventually start to change the way you feel.
3. If depression treatments aren't working for you, and anxiety is something that you deal with, try to get prescribed a benzodiazepam. They can help you to relax, and people in deep depression don't get to relax. They're not going to fix things either, but they might make thigns a bit more manageable. Find a dose that works, but don't take more than prescribed because you'll feel bad about yourself. If you take what your prescribed, you can feel powerful that your able to controll yourself and have power over the substance. Than again, if you slip up, don't get down on yourself....it happens to everybody.
4. If you find yourself on these message boards a large amount of time, and always on the internet searching about meds that you want to try or think might help you....stop. Focusing on depression too much doesn't help. Set aside one hour a day for thinking about medications, talking on message boards like this one. After that hour go do something else, even if it's watching TV or doing other things on the web. Remember that even if you feel depression has taken over your life, it is still just an aspect of it. Even if you feel it all the time, try not to let it take up all of your minds interests.
5. Give up suicide as an option. Just forget that it's even possible. ( I know that this is not possible for everybody, for those who can't do this, PLEASE keep talking to a therapist, a pyschologist would be best, because most pyschiatrists will just prescribe you a new medicine) If you decide that your going to live no matter how deep the pain, even if the only reason to live is just to experience this pain as a creature on earth. This resolve makes you a unique individual. And remember that even though life can be extremely painful, that it's still short. Who says we have to enjoy it? Sure enjoy some things if you can, but life is about experience, in my opinion. Enjoyment and pleasure are temporary things.
5. If your suffering from social anxiety, consider this. I once heard this homily from a priest, who was also a psychologist. He brought up the beatitude, "blessed are you when people hate and persecute you," which seems like irrational logic. But his point was, blessed are you when your not addicting to peoples approval. I've been applying this to my life. When I'm not addicted to other peoples approval, I'm free to be myself. We're addicted to that secure emotion of people not judging us, them liking and approving of us. But it only hurts us. We can't rely on others for our happiness. It can only come from us. That is also a Buddhist principle. If you can somehow apply this idea to your life, it can help you ease your social anxiety. I thank God for sending me that message.
anyway, I hope those things can help somebody
Posted by saturn on October 12, 2006, at 5:52:03
In reply to temporary solutions for those sufering w no relief, posted by nickguy on October 11, 2006, at 23:48:06
Posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 11:31:09
In reply to temporary solutions for those sufering w no relief, posted by nickguy on October 11, 2006, at 23:48:06
I'll try. Love Phillipa
Posted by wacky on October 12, 2006, at 17:50:34
In reply to Re: temporary solutions for those sufering w no relief » nickguy, posted by Phillipa on October 12, 2006, at 11:31:09
All anyone can ask is that we try.
Great post - and so thoughtful.
Posted by wacky on October 12, 2006, at 17:51:36
In reply to Re: temporary solutions for those sufering w no relief » Phillipa, posted by wacky on October 12, 2006, at 17:50:34
P.S. That means my time is up for today. Need to take this advice and go do something else.
ciou!
Posted by Squiggles on October 12, 2006, at 22:19:01
In reply to temporary solutions for those sufering w no relief, posted by nickguy on October 11, 2006, at 23:48:06
You sound like a very nice person--
a good person to talk to if someone
is having a really rough time.I'll save this for reference.
Squiggles
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 17:42:14
In reply to Re: temporary solutions for those sufering w no re » nickguy, posted by Squiggles on October 12, 2006, at 22:19:01
Thanks nick,
I think a lot of these are really great ideas.
I totally gave up moving when I was depressed. It actually hurt to move. I was in really bad shape.I came across something online that is another great suggestion. When the depression is SO bad that you just want to feel something ANYTHING! get an ice cube out of the freezer. stick it on your skin somewhere where you usually might abuse yourself. The ice cube is going to sting and hurt, but it won't damage you permanently, and by the time it melts in your hands, the urge to hurt onesself has typically passed.
My other suggestion is just to cry. Don't be afraid to cry. Grab a pillow and hug it and cry your brains out. Holding it in takes too much effort, and releasing it is associated with some kind of neurotransmitter event that might leave you feeling more loved afterwards. (oxytocin? I can't remember...)
Pick up the phone and call someone. Anyone you know or used to know. Someone who knows the "old" you. I'm always amazed at how different I feel when I talk with my friends who have no idea I'm depressed or whatever I am right now. They make me feel like my old self.
Thanks again nick- I'm going to save you post too.
-Li
Posted by wacky on October 16, 2006, at 11:56:19
In reply to Re: temporary solutions for those sufering w no re, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 17:42:14
Great additions - and I've used the ice cube trick when thinking about SI - and it worked. Later I was relieved I didn't have to lie about how I got hurt. It was a relief to know there was an alternative to SI that worked.
n
Posted by nickguy on October 17, 2006, at 17:17:21
In reply to Re: temporary solutions for those sufering w no re » Lindenblüte, posted by wacky on October 16, 2006, at 11:56:19
I'd like to just add a few more things that have helped me:
1. Positive thinking in itself is not going to get you anywhere. You can think "things'll get better," and "I'm a strong person and it's taken a lot to deal with this" and so on...positive thoughts..all you want- but- it won't do you any good if you don't believe it. It's about putting your emotional committment behind these thoughts, and believing them. Not just trying to think that. If you can find a way to do this, it makes EVERYTHING easier. You can even listen to positive music, and if you believe it, it'll make you feel better. ( If beliefs and faith in yourself sound silly to you in the face of depression- think about this- believing positive things and being good to yourself is just the flipside of the same coin as negativity. You have more faith than many people, it's just faith in the wrong things. We have had great faith in our worthlessness and great belief in our helplessness)
2. For those who are suicidal: Albert Camus, the man who is the author of the qoute "In the midst of winter I found in me an invincible summer," is also the author of this qoute: "The great thing about suicide, is that you can always do it later." This may not sound very helpful, but it is a foolproof method for avoiding sucide and still validating your pain at the same time. Just keep going, always thinking in the face of suicide that you can always just do it later. Do this till your life is ended on it's on terms. Believe me, things can get better- but sometimes they do it within their own season and time. Without suffering, there would be no spiritual or moral growth.
Posted by shasling on October 17, 2006, at 18:56:32
In reply to one more thing- positive, and suicidal, posted by nickguy on October 17, 2006, at 17:17:21
Thanks for # 2, Nickguy. I like that.
Suzie
Posted by Deneb on October 17, 2006, at 19:33:20
In reply to temporary solutions for those sufering w no relief, posted by nickguy on October 11, 2006, at 23:48:06
Wow! Nickguy, that was an amazing post!
I hope it helps many people.
Deneb*
Posted by deniseuk190466 on October 18, 2006, at 13:15:34
In reply to one more thing- positive, and suicidal, posted by nickguy on October 17, 2006, at 17:17:21
Nick
This is a really good post and I do try and do the suggestions in this post, sometimes it gives me a feeling of triumph to know I somehow got through a day at work feeling like a suicidal mess and managed to still acheive things, somehow decieving people into thinking I'm a "normal" person with normal wants and desires and it's strange but the worse I feel the less I care about what people think, it's like I feel that bad no matter what people think of me can't make me feel worse.
But I always end up taking a Zyprexa because I need a break from it, it just gets to the point where I feel I "have" to commit suicide to release myself. Sometimes I get really angry because I know I can't kill myself, I just don't have the courage, I end up being totally indecisive about that, trying to image just taking one step of a cliff for instance, afterall it's just a step and I think how easy the action would be compared to how difficult my life now seems and how impossible the future looks.
I used to have a really good job, no financial difficulties, some nice relationships but I still wound up feeling depressed, now I have no job, my mum (my tower of strength) has breast cancer, I'm starting to really hate my Psychiatrist because he won't let me try the drugs I want to try infact he won't even treat me even more as an outpatient and hasn't done so since around June this year. All the things that should have caused my depression are starting to happen, that's the irony, I guess thats what they call the self forefilling prophecy.
Anyway, I really liked your note and I can sort of understand what you're saying.
Denise
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 18, 2006, at 14:02:34
In reply to Re: one more thing- positive, and suicidal, posted by deniseuk190466 on October 18, 2006, at 13:15:34
Hey Denise,
It sounds like you're really hurting. Tell us a little bit more about how your pdoc is treating you- What meds are you on right now? What has/has not worked in the past?I'm so sorry to hear about all of the sadness in your life. I just don't want you to go on hurting yourself, just because your world is painful.
You shouldn't have to feel like that is your only way out. Try to think of other options to get some relief. Baby-steps away from that cliff, you know?
Are you in therapy? It sounds like you could use some supportive counseling to get you through these major life stressors.
do you like hugs? I have some for you? but you can give them to someone else if it's not your style
(((Denise)))
-Li
Posted by deniseuk190466 on October 18, 2006, at 14:11:50
In reply to Re: one more thing- positive, and suicidal » deniseuk190466, posted by Lindenblüte on October 18, 2006, at 14:02:34
Thanks for the hug :-)
but really it's not the life stressors that are causing me problems, it's the depression. The depression is for no reason, the life stressors don't really make things worse or better they are just there.
Sometimes it is nice to be able to talk to someone who understands and I will do cognitive therapy just to humour everyone but really I hate it when psychiatrists try and push therapy at you because THEY don't know what else to do.
A previous psychiatrist of mine (who I liked and respected) said he thought that I was perfectly well balanced and that he didn't think therapy would be of any benefit to me.
I don't need therapy, I just need an antidepressant that does what it is supposed to do and what it used to do!
Anyway, thanks for responding.
Denise
Posted by Lindenblüte on October 18, 2006, at 15:09:25
In reply to Re: one more thing- positive, and suicidal, posted by deniseuk190466 on October 18, 2006, at 14:11:50
> Thanks for the hug :-)
>
> but really it's not the life stressors that are causing me problems, it's the depression. The depression is for no reason, the life stressors don't really make things worse or better they are just there.
>
> Sometimes it is nice to be able to talk to someone who understands and I will do cognitive therapy just to humour everyone but really I hate it when psychiatrists try and push therapy at you because THEY don't know what else to do.
>
> A previous psychiatrist of mine (who I liked and respected) said he thought that I was perfectly well balanced and that he didn't think therapy would be of any benefit to me.
>
> I don't need therapy, I just need an antidepressant that does what it is supposed to do and what it used to do!
>
> Anyway, thanks for responding.
>
>
> DeniseAhh, okay, well I understand where you're coming from. The first two times I met the Big D I had no idea where it was coming from. Now I do have an idea. My therapists helped me figure out where it comes from and therefore it helps me figure out how to avoid it in the future. However, the psychopharm was essential in making me feel well enough to tolerate therapy. I've never done much CBT work. My first T (the one who helped me out of my depression earlier this year used eclectic approach-- but ultimately, my breakthrough came when I realized that my depression is just an extension of a coping mechanism that I had perfected over many years- i.e. an active avoidance of acknowledging and learning my own emotional reponses. Why and how did that coping mechanism develop? Well, that's unique to me.
I guess I think of depression as kind of like heart disease- once we've got it, we all show similar patterns and symptoms, but the reasons why we developed it, (poor diet, genetic susceptibility, job stress, inactive lifestyle, etc) are unique and special to all of us. Therapy helped me figure out what I needed to understand as the cause of my disorder(s), and since I'm learning more about me, I won't have to waste my time on more exercise, or reducing job stress- that the real reason I've got heart disease is that I eat too much animal fat etc. So? I guess I'm a fan of both therapy and medication working together, and there is research supporting both approaches, both alone, and in concert with each other. Ultimately, however, if the client doesn't wish to change his diet, he's not going to, no matter how many nutritionists he consults!
I wish you the best, and hope that you get the medication you need to feel better. You CAN get through this, and (((((Denise))))) knows what's best for Denise. I just wanted to give you a different perspective, since I know that therapy (and meds!) have helped me a LOT.
yours,
-Li
Posted by nickguy on October 18, 2006, at 18:09:40
In reply to Re: one more thing- positive, and suicidal » deniseuk190466, posted by Lindenblüte on October 18, 2006, at 15:09:25
Denise- drop your doc and get a new one if he won't be creative and is not willing to prescribe things that might invovle risk. I had a horrible pyschiatrist before, and I switched and it's made a world of difference. I got ativan for anxiety which has helped me tremendously, and my previous doctor refused to prescribe anti-anxiety medications because of their slight possibility of dependancy.
It takes more courage to live through the pain than to kill yourself. Your courageous person, just because of the very fact you are alive right now. I think we all want truth, and suffering is a part of life so therefore it teaches us about truth.
I hope you exercise if you can. It's a nice release and also a distraction- Don't feel guilty about taking your zyprexa. I felt guilty about taking ativan for a while because I felt like I wasn't dealing with the suffering. My therapist explained to me that there are some things we humans just don't need to suffer, theres no gain from it, and taking a medication for that kind is justified.
You could be a mentally healthy person, and still see a therapist. THey do much more than try to "fix" us. It's just nice going and talking to somebody who doesn't really have an opinion of you and you can say anything to. Good ones are also encouraging, (though not overbearing) and give us tools to shoulder our burden until we get better. Think about talking to one. They're also good to have around when the things you explained are taking place in life. (illness, relationship problems, ect.) They're there for support and guidance during tough times.
Posted by cecilia on October 19, 2006, at 4:47:52
In reply to one more thing- positive, and suicidal, posted by nickguy on October 17, 2006, at 17:17:21
My trouble is, I live in fear that it might not be true that you can always do suicide later. The older I get the less true it seems, though of course a disabling accident can happen at any age. This is my greatest fear, a stroke or other horrible thing leaving me helpless but still alive. Yet I'm so terrified of death that even if I knew for sure that the horrible thing was coming I doubt I'd be brave enough for suicide. (Yeah, I know, I'm a real fun person to be around...)
I do have a living will. But it isn't the Terry Schavo scenario that scares me most. At least she didn't (we assume) know what was happening. Far worse would be to be aware.
Anyone have any suggestions for coping with these fears? (NOT religious).
Sometimes I'm just so furious that my parents chose to bring me into this world. Cecilia
Posted by deniseuk190466 on October 22, 2006, at 17:11:15
In reply to Re: one more thing- positive, and suicidal » deniseuk190466, posted by Lindenblüte on October 18, 2006, at 15:09:25
Li,
Thanks for your note, I am going to give therapy a try, that is when I get to the top of the list. Apparently I have to wait another 7 months and I've already been on the waiting list for 12 months. Even the guy doing the therapy was negative about the waiting list so I told him to stop being so negative and try looking on the positive side :-)
Anyway, I will give it a try, it can't harm. Can you tell me what you've learnt from therapy? And do you think that you could go without medication now? Are you sure it's not the medication helping you on it's own?? I mean maybe you think the therapy is helping you but how do you know it's not just the medication.
If you had to choose to sacrifice one of the treatments, what would it be the meds or the therapy?
Denise
Posted by deniseuk190466 on October 22, 2006, at 17:22:11
In reply to Re: one more thing- positive, and suicidal, posted by nickguy on October 18, 2006, at 18:09:40
Nick,
Thanks for the support. I am going to give therapy a try but I have to wait 7 months before I get to see anyone because there is a massive waiting list for cognitive behavioural therapy.
My psychiatrist has pretty much told me he won't treat me anymore unless I go into hospital and then he is only going to try me out on escitalipram. I really don't see why I have to go into hospital just to try out escitalopram even my Doctor can't understand it.
Anyway I'll go into hospital just to humour him and while I'm in there try and find out how I can cut through the red tape and try and see somebody else at a different hospital. I feel as though my current psychiatrist has me hedged into a corner. My mum thinks my hatred towards him (and I am really starting to hate him) is unnatural and I know that it is but I don't rate him that well as a psychiatrist. He won't refer me to see somebody else as he says he doesn't feel that it is necessary. But I do!
Anyway, I sort of disagree with you about the suicide bit, I think it is more courageous to do it after all, all I'm doing is just sort of muddling through with the help of Zyprexa now and again, I'm just doing what I can do. Killing yourself, I think, is a very courageous and decisive thing to do, not that I would ever encourage anyone to do it and not that I'm advocating it :-)
I will take the Zyprexa when I have to and God help me if it ever stops working, then I would be totally messed up.
I'm going to print your note out anyway and show it to a friend of mine because it's sort of inspiring, it touched a nerve with me anyway.
Denise
Posted by nickguy on October 22, 2006, at 22:19:26
In reply to To Nick, posted by deniseuk190466 on October 22, 2006, at 17:22:11
> Nick,
>
> Thanks for the support. I am going to give therapy a try but I have to wait 7 months before I get to see anyone because there is a massive waiting list for cognitive behavioural therapy.
>
> My psychiatrist has pretty much told me he won't treat me anymore unless I go into hospital and then he is only going to try me out on escitalipram. I really don't see why I have to go into hospital just to try out escitalopram even my Doctor can't understand it.
>
> Anyway I'll go into hospital just to humour him and while I'm in there try and find out how I can cut through the red tape and try and see somebody else at a different hospital. I feel as though my current psychiatrist has me hedged into a corner. My mum thinks my hatred towards him (and I am really starting to hate him) is unnatural and I know that it is but I don't rate him that well as a psychiatrist. He won't refer me to see somebody else as he says he doesn't feel that it is necessary. But I do!
>
> Anyway, I sort of disagree with you about the suicide bit, I think it is more courageous to do it after all, all I'm doing is just sort of muddling through with the help of Zyprexa now and again, I'm just doing what I can do. Killing yourself, I think, is a very courageous and decisive thing to do, not that I would ever encourage anyone to do it and not that I'm advocating it :-)
>
> I will take the Zyprexa when I have to and God help me if it ever stops working, then I would be totally messed up.
>
> I'm going to print your note out anyway and show it to a friend of mine because it's sort of inspiring, it touched a nerve with me anyway.
>
>
>
> Denise
Well, I think your right Denise. Theres no doubt that taking your own life would take courage, but i think it takes a lot more courage to live through pain. And suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I know it doesn't seem temporary, but everything in life is transient. I just feel like those of you who are suffering and continue to do so ( while it's just as important to try to get better) are really something valuable to the world and life itself. By suffering your getting to the depth of the human heart and the experience of life. Theres just no doubt in my mind that it is the only way for our souls to grow.
This is the end of the thread.
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