Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 694018

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Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ?

Posted by Don_Bristol on October 12, 2006, at 0:02:59

I am not looking for a debate on morality and ethics. Heh! But I would like to ask this question.

Which is best as a pick-me-up to help stay awake for a person who is not taking any medication and who is drinking an "average" amount of coffee each day:

(a) 10mg Parnate
(b) one or two cups of strong coffee

---------------

Let me explain the situation. I take 50mg Parnate and it is being increased to 60 mg.

Recently I have not taken my last dose of Parnate until early evening. Maybe it's this late dosing or maybe it's the extra 10mg but I stay awake well past my bedtime. It's as if I have been drinking coffee.

Sometimes this boost is actually very welcome and helps me to get things done which have been piling up.

I was thinking of letting my girlfriend try 10mg when she is next struggling to stay up late to finish a task.

So the question is, which the best pick-me-up for her?

-----------

Thank you for any views or if you can remember what it was like starting 10mg Parnate better than I can!

regards

Don

.

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ?

Posted by willyee on October 12, 2006, at 6:53:24

In reply to Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ?, posted by Don_Bristol on October 12, 2006, at 0:02:59

> I am not looking for a debate on morality and ethics. Heh! But I would like to ask this question.
>
> Which is best as a pick-me-up to help stay awake for a person who is not taking any medication and who is drinking an "average" amount of coffee each day:
>
> (a) 10mg Parnate
> (b) one or two cups of strong coffee
>
> ---------------
>
> Let me explain the situation. I take 50mg Parnate and it is being increased to 60 mg.
>
> Recently I have not taken my last dose of Parnate until early evening. Maybe it's this late dosing or maybe it's the extra 10mg but I stay awake well past my bedtime. It's as if I have been drinking coffee.
>
> Sometimes this boost is actually very welcome and helps me to get things done which have been piling up.
>
> I was thinking of letting my girlfriend try 10mg when she is next struggling to stay up late to finish a task.
>
> So the question is, which the best pick-me-up for her?
>
> -----------
>
> Thank you for any views or if you can remember what it was like starting 10mg Parnate better than I can!
>
> regards
>
> Don
>
> .

Personaly i think parnate varies in effect after initial onset to be used if it doesent have to.Ive had people try it on there own asking and knowledge and they dident like it.

But what your asking is something they discuss in smart drugs,and usualy recomended is a drop which is equal to 1 mg of LIQUID oral deprenyl.

This is said to be very stimulating for non depressives to be used for cognitve purposes.

I would not mess with parnate unless needed,but thats me,and i understand what youre asking as far as a dose thats for mind awkening purposes.Might wanna check that group out if you havent,there are other drugs,and nutrients they discuss for those purposes as well.

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe

Posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 21:37:58

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ?, posted by willyee on October 12, 2006, at 6:53:24

I tend to think coffee is much better as a short-term stimulant for someone who isn't taking Parnate.

Ten mg of parnate-- can't imagine that would wake someone up who wasn't taking 60 mg-- and going up in dosage.

Usually it's not recommended to take Parnate much after 3 pm if it has a stimulating effect-- ie for you.

You take more than 1 pill at a time, right? I used to take 3/4 at a time when I was on it.

Jost

 

Hope you don't mind me butting in » Jost

Posted by Declan on October 13, 2006, at 1:16:44

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe, posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 21:37:58

Jost, why did you stop? I was on a low dose for a bit. It was OK, but sleep was an issue.

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe » Jost

Posted by Don_Bristol on October 13, 2006, at 12:26:38

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe, posted by Jost on October 12, 2006, at 21:37:58

Hi Jost

>
> I tend to think coffee is much better as a short-term stimulant
> for someone who isn't taking Parnate.
>

I tend to think coffee is not greatly stimulating and can be short lived. There is a good article called

"Actions of Caffeine in the Brain with Special Reference to Factors That Contribute to Its Widespread Use"
http://pharmrev.aspetjournals.org/cgi/reprint/51/1/83.pdf


>> Therefore it can probably be concluded that caffeine in doses that correspond to a few cups of coffe "improves behavioral routine and speed rather than cognitive functions" <<

-----

>
> Ten mg of parnate-- can't imagine that would wake someone
> up who wasn't taking 60 mg-- and going up in dosage.
>

I kind of felt that 10mg to someone not used to it would be mildly stimulating. I havebeen on 50mg for a year and adding 10mg makes a difference.

-----

>
> Usually it's not recommended to take Parnate much after 3
> pm if it has a stimulating effect-- ie for you.
>

This is exactly why I think Parnate may be a better stimulant than coffee.

>
> You take more than 1 pill at a time, right? I used to
> take 3/4 at a time when I was on it.
>

Yes. I too take 3 or 4 at a time. Why did you stop Parnate?

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ? » willyee

Posted by Don_Bristol on October 13, 2006, at 13:08:53

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ?, posted by willyee on October 12, 2006, at 6:53:24

> > I am not looking for a debate on morality and ethics. Heh!
> > But I would like to ask this question.
> >
> > Which is best as a pick-me-up to help stay awake for a person
> > who is not taking any medication and who is drinking an
> > "average" amount of coffee each day:
> >
> > (a) 10mg Parnate
> > (b) one or two cups of strong coffee
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > Let me explain the situation. I take 50mg Parnate and it is
> > being increased to 60 mg.
> >
> > Recently I have not taken my last dose of Parnate until early
> > evening. Maybe it's this late dosing or maybe it's the extra
> > 10mg but I stay awake well past my bedtime. It's as if I have
> > been drinking coffee.
> >
> > Sometimes this boost is actually very welcome and helps me to
> > get things done which have been piling up.
> >
> > I was thinking of letting my girlfriend try 10mg when she is
> > next struggling to stay up late to finish a task.
> >
> > So the question is, which the best pick-me-up for her?
> >
> > -----------
> >
> > Thank you for any views or if you can remember what it was like
> > starting 10mg Parnate better than I can!
> >
> > regards
> > Don

> Personaly i think parnate varies in effect after initial onset to
> be used if it doesent have to. Ive had people try it on there own
> asking and knowledge and they dident like it.
>
> But what your asking is something they discuss in smart drugs,and
> usualy recomended is a drop which is equal to 1 mg of LIQUID oral
> deprenyl.


Before I took Parnate I tried 1 mg deprenyl in tablet form. I had a bad response and found it very difficult to manage. In fact, it was really quite unpleasant. You stress "LIQUID" so maybe this is a factor?

I can not easily imagine that this response would be much better for my girlfriend although I guess it's possible that I was being rather unusual in having such adverse reactions to the deprenyl tablet. However until I am clear that she and I might difer a lot in our responses, then it is probably wiser not to get her to chance it!

>
> This is said to be very stimulating for non depressives to be
> used for cognitve purposes.
>

ISTR that deprenyl is contra-indicatd with Parnate.

I don't know if that is because one works on MAOI-A and the other on MOAI-B and there is a theoretical interaction or whether in real life practical terms there is an interaction.

(I mean this in the same way that appears to be an over-cautious contraindication for taking an MAOI with an SSRI. The combination is not super safe but with caution it is said not to be very dangerous either.)

> I would not mess with parnate unless needed,but thats me,and i
> understand what youre asking as far as a dose thats for mind
> awkening purposes. Might wanna check that group out if you havent,
> there are other drugs,and nutrients they discuss for those purposes
> as well.

Parnate is a damn fine med (with a lot of overstated dangers) but maybe it is not such a damn fine booster for alertness? I wonder .... Heh!

Best wishes
Don

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ? » Don_Bristol

Posted by willyee on October 13, 2006, at 19:08:58

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ? » willyee, posted by Don_Bristol on October 13, 2006, at 13:08:53

OOOOHHHH no i wasnt recomending the combination of deprenyl with parnate,no,no.I have done that,but im battling some hard treatment resistent depression,and i did it knowing the risk.

As far as the liquid,i know i do stress it,but that should tell you how strongly i feel.This is because i have people on my friends list right now,about 2,who i know personaly have a draw full of tabs,and find them usesless.

Thats most important cause its real,i know them.Then i have all the posts i have read about the ineffectivness of the tabs,thats second.


Then i have the fact i have used the liquid,and have first hand experianced notable relieaf from it.

Then and last i have the issue that in the google group,smart drugs&nutrients,which hold some very intelligent people when it comes to the brain,consider liquid deprenyl one of the smart drugs,and is included often in there discussions,very often,where as the tabs are not.


Crunching all this togther gives me a solid conlcusion that unfortantly isnt too scientific based,that the liquid is supererior.Sometimes scienace has to take a back seat for me to real life.

Sorry for the confusion about parnate/deprenyl combo.It is defintaly not to be toyed with.

I just see liquid deprenyl used in non depression situations much more often than parnate which is actualy considered by med standerds to be one of your heavy hitters,but u know that.

 

Re: why I stopped parnate

Posted by Jost on October 13, 2006, at 21:34:58

In reply to Hope you don't mind me butting in » Jost, posted by Declan on October 13, 2006, at 1:16:44

I stopped because I got a rather rare side effect after about three years, ie thrombocytopenia, or reduced platelet count. Normal # of platelets is about 170,00 or above. I was actually down to about 20,000 when I stopped-- which is pretty dangerous if you happen to be in an accident, or just start bleeding.

It's not unheard of, with various drugs.

~~

Coffee is certainly not a strong stimulant.

I didn't find Parnate that stimulating, but was thinking of how Emsam, which I do find highly stimulating, affects me. I can't say that having a small part of one patch for an hour or two would give me energy. After a few days-- perhaps--but there might also be a minimum dose.

I could be wrong, but it's my guess.

What did you do for sleep, Declan? With Emsam I've used ambien, neurontin (just a little), xanax and sometimes, at the end of the night, sonata. It worked pretty well--altogether--with variations from night to night-- but you might have to be a bit stringent with amounts-- Did the Parnate work to relieve depression? cause you might have success with low-dose seroquel for sleep, too.

I'd give it another try, honestly, if it helped.

Don, is your girlfriend interested in trying the Parnate? Did you start with 10 mg. as your first dose? if so, did you find it that stimulating, per se?


Jost

 

Sleep » Jost

Posted by Declan on October 14, 2006, at 18:12:50

In reply to Re: why I stopped parnate, posted by Jost on October 13, 2006, at 21:34:58

Avoiding drink is best for me. The benzo type thingos are humane but problematic in lightening sleep. Herbs can help a little. Other than that and things like vit C, magnesium, calcium, niacin, trytophan, I put up with it.

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe » Don_Bristol

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 19:13:40

In reply to Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ?, posted by Don_Bristol on October 12, 2006, at 0:02:59

I find provigil to be a very effective stimulant- there was one memorable night when I accidentally took it with my evening meds. oopsie! Keeping in mind that one of my evening meds at the time was 50mg of seroquel, provigil kept me up ALL night long. of course, by about 11am the next day, I was kinda zonked, but you know...

-Li

no experience with parnate. is gf habituated to coffee? if not, coffee will be VERY effective!

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe » Lindenblüte

Posted by Don_Bristol on October 15, 2006, at 20:42:38

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe » Don_Bristol, posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 19:13:40

> I find provigil to be a very effective stimulant- there
> was one memorable night when I accidentally took it
> with my evening meds. oopsie! Keeping in mind that one
> of my evening meds at the time was 50mg of seroquel,
> provigil kept me up ALL night long. of course, by
> about 11am the next day, I was kinda zonked, but you
> know...
>
> -Li
>


I get that if I take my last daily dose of 20 mg Parnate after about 7 or 8 pm. After that staying up all night is easy. And I can usualy keep going until 5pm before I get an hour or so of sleep.

You said you were zonked after a night up with provigil. I recall an early report in "THE ECONOMIST" about Provigil/Modafinil. This is from their Dec 19th 2002 edition. However your experience may not support thie propoposition. OTOH maybe you were zonked from something else you were taking like the Seroquel. I would be interested to know.


--------------- START QUOTE: ECONOMIST on PROVIGIL ----------
It is a treatment for narcolepsy (which makes sufferers irresistibly sleepy during the day) that has got the sleep scientists really excited. A few years ago, America's Food and Drug Administration approved a drug called Modafinil, sold under the brand name Provigil, to combat daytime sleepiness in narcoleptics. Modafinil makes up for patients' deficiency in a neurotransmitter called orexin, though no one knows quite how.

What is clear, however, is that the drug can also keep awake people who are tired for other reasons. That in itself is nothing new: coffee and amphetamines have a similar effect. But Modafinil's special attraction is that it does not seem to produce a &#8220;rebound&#8221; effect, whereby sleep eventually catches up after a prolonged period of wakefulness. The drug seems capable of keeping people alert for several days and nights without apparently building up any kind of sleep debt. &#8220;Half the people at sleep meetings are already taking it,&#8221; says Dr Williams.

For those who feel that life is far too short to spend a third of it asleep, this sounds like the Holy Grail. Just imagine: soldiers who can keep fighting for days until the battle is won; pilots who can fly around the world in one go; doctors who can perform marathon life-saving operations. And why stop there? Night-shift workers need never nod off again; managers can work non-stop to finish that vital report and still be perky to present it in the morning; and politicians can campaign without ever dropping. Or can they?

So far, the drug is licensed only for the treatment of narcolepsy. Experts are cautious, saying it is early days and much more investigation is needed. It may well be that Modafinil, like other drugs, proves a useful addition to the sleep scientists' toolkit. But it would be very astonishing if we could eliminate sleep altogether simply by popping a pill. If we do not even know why humans, along with all other higher animals, need to sleep, how can we be sure it is safe to stop doing so?
--------------- END QUOTE: ECONOMIST on PROVIGIL ----------


Best wishes
Don

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe » Don_Bristol

Posted by Lindenblüte on October 15, 2006, at 21:53:20

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe » Lindenblüte, posted by Don_Bristol on October 15, 2006, at 20:42:38

A few things that make me different from elite soldiers and pilots

1) severe depression at the time
2) I had been up late 2 nights in a row BEFORE taking the provigil, becuase I was packing for my trip somewhere far away
3) I never allowed myself to "crash" I just felt dazed and out of it. I may have slept some on the plane that afternoon.

my mom (not severely depressed or on sleepy-making meds) reports provigil is a fantastic mood brightener. She is often up until midnight doing active things. She usually won't have any problems falling asleep, though when she finally does tucker out.

-Li

 

Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffe

Posted by elanor roosevelt on October 15, 2006, at 21:57:17

In reply to Re: Best pick-me-up: 10mg Parnate or cup of coffee ? » willyee, posted by Don_Bristol on October 13, 2006, at 13:08:53

I think you should buy your girlfriend some chocolate covered coffee beans
tht's the way to go


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