Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 693609

Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Why R Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo?

Posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 16:13:46

I know a man who is manic depressive.

He was w/ me a day and a half, and he was so so so all over me and all over the house ... running on the ceiling ... he 'just could not stop'. It was making me so nervous and anxious that I needed more of my meds for GAD.

Can anyone fill me in on why he is not on a benzo for these manic episodes???

bestwishes, cf

 

Re: Why R Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo?

Posted by Triolian on October 10, 2006, at 17:23:29

In reply to Why R Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo?, posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 16:13:46

> I know a man who is manic depressive.
>
> He was w/ me a day and a half, and he was so so so all over me and all over the house ... running on the ceiling ... he 'just could not stop'. It was making me so nervous and anxious that I needed more of my meds for GAD.
>
> Can anyone fill me in on why he is not on a benzo for these manic episodes???
>
> bestwishes, cf

Because....
Like most drugs, it doesn't work. It only maks the underlying problem by slightly suppressing symptoms, sometimes enough that you won't bother medical people (who are much too important to be bothered with you).

 

Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Triolian

Posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 19:26:37

In reply to Re: Why R Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo?, posted by Triolian on October 10, 2006, at 17:23:29

RU saying the medical professionals would rather control bipolar manic episodes w/ huge doses of Depakote or the like, than spend a little time to lessen the symptoms of mania? He did tell me that he feels like his P, his caseworker, etc., seem to be just giving him the run-around and showed fear in contacting them.

I have GAD and I NEED the symptoms of anxiety masked and/or suppressed. W/o suppressing it, I'd be on the edge of performing NADLs.

I'm a little confused by your answer.

And, what IF the mania isn't even bipolar ... what if it's ADHD ... because the 'walking on the ceiling' and 'talking so fast you can't catch up' are symptoms of it also.

I'm just very concerned about a man who, as a child, was on Ritalin, on and off, then as an adult found from brothers that meth worked similarly in controlling his 'moving WAY too fast'. Then, he entered the psychiatric community and now (street clean 2 yrs) well, his being around me causes my anxiety to skyrocket, and, he wants to be in my life more than anything. And, I can't seem to let him flounder. I think he needs me.

How can I help him? Was suggesting that he call his P and say "I am nearly dysfunctional because of my high anxiety" wrong?

Tks T.

sincerely, cf

 

Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!?

Posted by Triolian on October 10, 2006, at 19:32:46

In reply to Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Triolian, posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 19:26:37

What you are talking about is mania, not anxiety, and benzos won't do much of anything (they don't do much of anything for anxiety either). I am totally anti-medication. His problems now may well be the result of medication in the past.

 

Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Triolian

Posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 20:00:39

In reply to Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!?, posted by Triolian on October 10, 2006, at 19:32:46

Triolian:

He is very anti-medication also! I don't believe he even bothered to call his P.

I've never realized there is a recognizable difference in mania and anxiety.

Sometimes my anxiety is soo bad that I get 'excited' and reach out desperately in all directions. It felt as if he was 'reaching out desperately to me' and appeared to be like my anxiety. He went on and on about how he had nothing if he didn't have me.

Confession: I nearly forced him to take a Valium (He spent the night and I was tired!). Upon awakening he went on-and-on about the best night's sleep had in months!

Also, what is it distinguishes 'mania' from 'hyperactivity' re: hyperactivity treatment as a child w/ Ritalin?

And no, his docs 'don't' want to take the time to dig deeper. He says he feels deserted by them.

I'm afraid I'll have to tell him I can't see him anymore. I can't 'keep up' w/ his exacerbated neediness and an insufferable need to be recognized and complemented on every little thing 'he does' or 'he completes'.

I don't know if I love the man, but even if he were only a very familiar and good friend, my heart hurts to think of hurting him any further than this illness has hurt him. He literally cries at my feet.

can'tletgo, cf

 

Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? corafree

Posted by Racer on October 10, 2006, at 20:16:35

In reply to Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Triolian, posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 19:26:37

> RU saying the medical professionals would rather control bipolar manic episodes w/ huge doses of Depakote or the like, than spend a little time to lessen the symptoms of mania?

Triolian has already pointed out the bottom line issue: mania is not anxiety.

I'm not anti-medication, so here's a slightly different answer than Triolian gave you on some of the rest of it:

Depakote controls the episodes -- it's not masking anything. It's stopping them at the source, if it's working. (It doesn't sound as though it's working in your friend's case -- that's why he's bouncing off the walls.) The theory is that manic episodes are similar on a biological level to epileptic episodes -- there's a bit of an electrical storm in the brain which causes the symptoms: seizures in the case of epilepsy, mania in the case of bipolar. By that theory, an anti-convulsant will stop manic episodes by quietening the electrical activity in the brain.

Benzos are anxiolytics, and they don't work for everyone. They're also addictive, which might be an issue if your friend has a history of substance abuse. Some benzos have been used as anti-convulsants, but they're not the first choice. They're also not high on the short-list for mania.

Anti-psychotics would be a much better PRN choice for mania, probably.

Hope that helps explain it. If your friend is interfering with your ability to function because his mania is too disruptive, the best thing you can do is set a limit: he can't be a big part of your life until he gets it treated adequately.

Good luck.

 

Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Racer

Posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 20:31:49

In reply to Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? corafree, posted by Racer on October 10, 2006, at 20:16:35

So, the anxiety I'm seeing is probably 'his trying to communicate to me he cannot communicate how he is feeling'. Maybe he is feeling the same frustration I'm feeling.

And I've wondered too, his P's possible knowledge of drug abuse interfered somehow w/ his treatment.

sayswillODw/ome, cf

 

Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? corafree

Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2006, at 21:07:10

In reply to Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Racer, posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 20:31:49

Corafree anxiety and mania are totally differant. A benzo is very weak for someone who is manic. Racer mentioned the benzo and addiction cause you said he had addictions. If he were someone who meant anything at all to me I'd make sure he got to a hospital for stabalization. Could take a couple of weeks. But it's necessay. Love Phillipa

 

There's a name for that behavior corafree

Posted by Racer on October 10, 2006, at 21:43:42

In reply to Re: Manic Depressives NOT on a benzo for mania!? Racer, posted by corafree on October 10, 2006, at 20:31:49

> sayswillODw/ome, cf

Corafree, if he says he will OD without you, that's a form of blackmail. Do you really want to reinforce that behavior?

What's more, there don't have to be any absolutes in this situation: you don't have to say, "Go away forever," you can say, "I can't be with you when you're manic." That kinda includes the possibility that he can come back when he's NOT manic. Where is he drawing the line? He'll OD if you leave long enough to go to the store? To the postbox on the corner?

Honestly -- I hate to see that sort of thing go on. It can be dangerous, too, because it can escalate quickly.

> So, the anxiety I'm seeing is probably 'his trying to communicate to me he cannot communicate how he is feeling'. Maybe he is feeling the same frustration I'm feeling.

That's NOT anxiety he's displaying, though, Corafree. It's DIFFERENT from anxiety -- whether or not he admits it, he probably feels pretty great. That's what mania is for a lot of people -- feeling better than normal.

> And I've wondered too, his P's possible knowledge of drug abuse interfered somehow w/ his treatment.
>

I only brought that up as another reason not to explore benzos for this man. The real reason, the best reason, is that they don't help what ails him. They don't stabilize his mood -- that's what he needs: mood stabilization, with a mood stabilizer. Depakote is one option for mood stabilization.

I hope you'll do what you need to do to keep yourself safe. Good luck.

 

Re: There's a name for that behavior

Posted by corafree on October 11, 2006, at 16:16:15

In reply to There's a name for that behavior corafree, posted by Racer on October 10, 2006, at 21:43:42

Okay, I'm beginning to see what is really going on here, tks to you all.

Maybe he's not taking his Depakote as prescribed because of weight gain and 'the slug feeling'.

And, yes, or no, I can't be around him when he is manic, which is 'often ... very often'.

So, his wanting me to 'marry him and commit to him' just isn't possible.

He jumps w/ speed from here to there in 'his own little world' and it doesn't bother those peeps so much (afa I know, since they won't speak to me), 'his mother, brother, co-worker', but it does me. It's their call to get him help, not mine.

His behavior makes me a nervous wreck!

I don't like that in myself. I don't like that I am limited in what I can handle, but I'm realizing I must face my limitations.

Just one more ? ... Seroquel and Topamax ... Is this an anti-psychotic and mood stabilizer combo, and if so, which is which?

And, I am feeling so much worse back on an AD. Sleeping till noon or later!? Going off today!!!

love, cf

 

Re: There's a name for that behavior

Posted by corafree on October 11, 2006, at 17:49:06

In reply to Re: There's a name for that behavior, posted by corafree on October 11, 2006, at 16:16:15

L - What is the name for that behavior? Something besides mania? Duh!

And, googled Seroquel. See it's anti-psychotic which I believe is 'not' just indicated for bipolar.

Finding an answer to exactly what Topamax is, more difficult.

Seems to act as mood stabilizer. Wish had a PDR or a cheap med book!

Wondering .. is it actually a mood stabilizer, anti-epileptic, anti-seizure ... or what?

My IRL friend, who is bipolar, (not RainyDayMan) swears by Topamax daytime and Seroquel at h.s.
She gained too much weight on Depakote and switched to Seroquel, lessening appetite. They've taken Topamax off 'the system' formulary, so believe she has found another way of funding it, but does very well on it.

She is bipolar, but has GAD too, and takes Klonopin and Xanax. I'm just saying this as may be why I associated the two behaviors, anxiety & mania.

tks, cf


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