Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 693461

Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Aint that a kick

Posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 0:03:00

I came here to post,and ended up answering them lol.I always do this,and im so worn and have a sense of guilt from spending so much time here,i dont post.

Well just to jot down,its 1 am,i am pretty much terrified at this point.My thinking is as follows


I have tried every drug i can think of....

This includes combos....

My real doc moved,and the new one is less than appealing to me...


Most importantly no one around me seems to care,its kinda like ok hes not making a fuss,lets leave him.


So i exsist in my own little world,but because im maniac my bills and all else stay in order.


I feel however im loosing control of my self talk more and more everyday,and feel like a speed truck going 90.


I presented this to my doc to no avail

I presented this to my family to no avail

So what now,is some angel gonna step out of a corner and help me,NO.......im gonna crash and chrash hard.


Lol they say help is all around,but man have i reached,and as i loose my mental energy more and more each day,so goes any chance of stability as i always end up being the factor that helps myself.


When i hit the point where i cant do this,well i just dont know.

The med change i have is parnate from overseas while i wait for my script here to arrive,thats all.


But whatever it is,im totaly out of control,and i get so angry when i see my family going about ther buisness,i wanna scream,HEY your son is suffering,a little help please,but that doesent happen.


Ok sorry i know i was to keep the parnate part as the only part of this post,but its the maniac thing,remember i just told ya,lol,trying to keep my sense of humour too.


I dont even know what im asking here,if anyone reads this and knows,let me in please.

 

Re: Aint that a kick

Posted by snapper on October 10, 2006, at 3:45:09

In reply to Aint that a kick, posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 0:03:00

hey willeye, how can we or any of us help.!
snapper

 

Re: Aint that a kick

Posted by shasling on October 10, 2006, at 6:36:21

In reply to Aint that a kick, posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 0:03:00

Will, Maybe a dumb question as I have not reviewed all of your posts, but can you back off the Goldshield parnate? Surely thats the source of the mania. It did the same to me and I only took two a day.

Anything I can do to help let me know,

Suzie

 

Re: Aint that a kick

Posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 19:49:24

In reply to Aint that a kick, posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 0:03:00

Thanks sooooo much for the comfort,very much appreciated.Im am in a horrid state now,example being the feeling u should lay down,u do,and feel you should get up,you get up,and feel you should lay down.

I forgot to mention,and believe now,the source is both the parnate change,as well as switching to lycria.

FYI boys and girls,for me i attest that lyrcia and parnate do NOT work well togther,and create a maniac sweat and bad state.


I know how to handle these,so im doing so,a bad depression follows if your not careful,you have to ride it out,sweat it out,and im doing so.


At this point just about any med will agitate me more,its just water water water now.

Thanks again.

 

Goldshield Parnate » shasling

Posted by Tomatheus on October 11, 2006, at 9:54:23

In reply to Re: Aint that a kick, posted by shasling on October 10, 2006, at 6:36:21

Suzie,

It's interesting to read that you felt manic on the Goldshield Parnate. If you don't mind me asking, how long were you on the Goldshield Parnate? Did your manic symptoms become stronger, weaker, or pretty much stay the same after spending more time at a given dose? Did you try taking just 10 mg/day of the Goldshield Parnate for at least a somewhat extended period of time (at least 2-3 weeks)? If so, what was your response? Finally, how did your response to the Goldshield Parnate differ from your response to the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate?

I'm just curious because I've tried Parnate myself and ended up stopping it prematurely (after about two weeks) because the midday fatigue was just too much for me. I know that a certain amount of early-onset fatigue is generally to be expected when taking MAOIs (when I was able to get my partially homemade enteric version of the Australian Nardil to work, I had to endure about a week and a half of extreme daytime sleepiness after each dose increase before I could start to feel the drug's effects). However, based on the anecdotal reports that I've read from patients who've taken Parnate long-term, it seems that midday fatigue tends to be a long-term problem for those who use the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate these days. This trend seems to be inconsistent with research reports that I've read on the effects of Parnate (which were from studies that were conducted before the Parnate formulation change in the early 1990s), which suggest that Parnate is highly activating. So, even though I can't say for sure that the formulation change somehow made the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate less activating than it used to be, I think that there's some reason to suspect that that may have been the case.

That's why I'm curious about this Goldshield Parnate. It sounds like it may be more activating than the "new" GlaxoSmithKline Parnate. In your experience, did you find this to be the case? I'm wondering if the Goldshield Parnate may be more like the "old" SmithKlineBeecher Parnate.

Anyway, please feel free to answer any of my questions that you'd feel comfortable answering, if you get the chance. I'd appreciate any help that you could provide.

Thanks,
Tomatheus

> Will, Maybe a dumb question as I have not reviewed all of your posts, but can you back off the Goldshield parnate? Surely thats the source of the mania. It did the same to me and I only took two a day.
>
> Anything I can do to help let me know,
>
> Suzie

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » Tomatheus

Posted by shasling on October 11, 2006, at 11:48:31

In reply to Goldshield Parnate » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on October 11, 2006, at 9:54:23

Tomatheus,

I think you have hit the nail on the head. The Goldshield was very activating for me; upon research I find that Parnate "has" amphetamine metabolites. I am unfortunately acquianted with amph, and recognized it as that.

I think I was taking 10 or 20 mg per day, not very many b/c of the cost and hassle to obtain. (Couldn't get a doc to try maoi for me so I had to go the self medication route) I have a very sleepy fatigued depression so the Goldshield was working wonders for me. I found a psych who would, since I was already on it, rx it for me so I started taking the American version - Glaxo I guess. The activation immediately faded. My theory is that Glaxo reformulated and removed the amph metabolites somehow. Why its still okay to have activating Parnate in the UK, but not here, who knows? But for me, Glaxo parnate not worth taking; Goldshield was the BOMB. I unforunately can't handle the diet and all so can't go back to it. But that's my experience. Hope I was able to fill in what you were looking for.

Suzie

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » Tomatheus

Posted by shasling on October 11, 2006, at 11:50:01

In reply to Goldshield Parnate » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on October 11, 2006, at 9:54:23

Oh yeah, took Goldshield for about three to four weeks maybe. First noticed the activation after about a week, I'd guess...

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate

Posted by willyee on October 11, 2006, at 17:36:40

In reply to Goldshield Parnate » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on October 11, 2006, at 9:54:23

> Suzie,
>
> It's interesting to read that you felt manic on the Goldshield Parnate. If you don't mind me asking, how long were you on the Goldshield Parnate? Did your manic symptoms become stronger, weaker, or pretty much stay the same after spending more time at a given dose? Did you try taking just 10 mg/day of the Goldshield Parnate for at least a somewhat extended period of time (at least 2-3 weeks)? If so, what was your response? Finally, how did your response to the Goldshield Parnate differ from your response to the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate?
>
> I'm just curious because I've tried Parnate myself and ended up stopping it prematurely (after about two weeks) because the midday fatigue was just too much for me. I know that a certain amount of early-onset fatigue is generally to be expected when taking MAOIs (when I was able to get my partially homemade enteric version of the Australian Nardil to work, I had to endure about a week and a half of extreme daytime sleepiness after each dose increase before I could start to feel the drug's effects). However, based on the anecdotal reports that I've read from patients who've taken Parnate long-term, it seems that midday fatigue tends to be a long-term problem for those who use the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate these days. This trend seems to be inconsistent with research reports that I've read on the effects of Parnate (which were from studies that were conducted before the Parnate formulation change in the early 1990s), which suggest that Parnate is highly activating. So, even though I can't say for sure that the formulation change somehow made the GlaxoSmithKline Parnate less activating than it used to be, I think that there's some reason to suspect that that may have been the case.
>
> That's why I'm curious about this Goldshield Parnate. It sounds like it may be more activating than the "new" GlaxoSmithKline Parnate. In your experience, did you find this to be the case? I'm wondering if the Goldshield Parnate may be more like the "old" SmithKlineBeecher Parnate.
>
> Anyway, please feel free to answer any of my questions that you'd feel comfortable answering, if you get the chance. I'd appreciate any help that you could provide.
>
> Thanks,
> Tomatheus
>
> > Will, Maybe a dumb question as I have not reviewed all of your posts, but can you back off the Goldshield parnate? Surely thats the source of the mania. It did the same to me and I only took two a day.
> >
> > Anything I can do to help let me know,
> >
> > Suzie
>
>


I have to disagree,when parnate on its first year DID work for me,the glaxco brand,its stimulation and mood elevating effect were a thousand times,no a million times better than what i experiance on this stuff.

Just me of course.Also the re formulation of parnate was much different than nardils,its only a inactive coloring i believe,and there are no cases of it becomming ineffective around that exact point.Nardil users have pretty much pin pointed the change.

Parnate is still encetric coated,unlike the new nardil.This is not to say i dont believe the company could still have made some sort of change,something has to give to the differance.

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » shasling

Posted by Tomatheus on October 21, 2006, at 1:09:03

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate » Tomatheus, posted by shasling on October 11, 2006, at 11:48:31

Suzie,

Thank you so much for your response. I apologize for taking so long to acknowledge what you wrote.

I think it's very encouraging to hear that you found the Goldshield tranylcypromine to be noticeably more efficacious than the Glaxo Parnate. I too have a "sleepy fatigued" kind of depression that (among other things) is characterized by extreme psychomotor retardation, lethargy, hypersomnia, unrefreshing sleep, and leaden paralysis. My energy levels have actually been so low as of late that I have not been able to write and post messages of any coherence for the last few days.

When I took the Glaxo Parnate previously, I noticed a distinct energizing effect on the first day that lasted for a few hours (I suspect that what I felt might have been caused by Parnate's amphetamine metabolites, but I can't say for sure). But after the energizing effect faded, I felt extremely sleepy and could not stay awake no matter how hard I tried. After being on the Glaxo Parnate for a few days, I seemed to develop a tolerance to the drug's energizing effect but still could not keep myself awake in the middle of the day, no matter what I did (I tried drinking lots of coffee to combat the sleepiness, but to no avail). So, for the most part, I found the Glaxo Parnate to be a very sedating drug, which obviously did not help me with the type of depressive disorder that I suffer from. I probably should have tried staying on the Glaxo Parnate for longer than I did (I stayed on it for about two weeks), but I was taking afternoon and evening classes at a university at the time, and I didn't want to fail my courses due to bad attendance.

Your theory that Glaxo might have removed Parnate's amphetamine metabolites is very interesting and thought-provoking. It's difficult to imagine how Glaxo could have removed Parnate's metabolites without changing the active ingredient (which has remained the same over the years despite changes in the drug's inactive ingredients), but I find your theory to be interesting nevertheless, and I thank you for sharing it with all of us.

Of course, whether or not the version of Parnate that's currently being sold in the U.S. lacks amphetamine metabolites, I think there is no questioning the fact that you found the Goldshield tranylcypromine to be significantly more activating than the Glaxo version. I realize that not everybody's experience with Parnate will mirror yours and that there's no guarantee that the Goldshield version will work for me. But considering that Nardil is the only psychiatric medication that's ever produced more than a few days' worth of meaningful clinical benefits for me (I was feeling *so normal* on a specially prepared version of the Australian Nardil for about a month until the manufacturer stopped putting silica gel inside the bottles), I certainly think that it would be worthwhile to try the Goldshield tranylcypromine. I am very strongly considering ordering it from an online pharmacy that I've used in the past. I know that it's generally not advisable to go the self-medication route, but quite frankly, the meds that I've ordered from overseas have generally worked much better than any of the meds that my pdoc ever prescribed me. I'd certainly prefer to "play by the rules," so to speak, just as I did for the first few years of receiving psychopharmacological treatments. But when it comes down to it, I'd prefer to take medications that are actually effective at treating my psychiatric illness instead of paying my pdoc more than $100 a session to prescribe me medications that just make my condition worse (and consequently put me deeper into debt by keeping me out of work for longer). So, as you did with the Goldshield tranylcypromine and as I did previously with the Australian Nardil, I will probably continue to travel down the forbidden path of self-medication -- most likely by ordering the Goldshield tranylcypromine for myself.

Thanks again for your helpful post. As I mentioned, I found it encouraging to read about your experience with the Goldshield tranylcypromine, and I'm sorry to hear that you weren't able to continue taking it. I hope that everything is going ok for you in your struggle with this illness.

Tomatheus

> Tomatheus,
>
> I think you have hit the nail on the head. The Goldshield was very activating for me; upon research I find that Parnate "has" amphetamine metabolites. I am unfortunately acquianted with amph, and recognized it as that.
>
> I think I was taking 10 or 20 mg per day, not very many b/c of the cost and hassle to obtain. (Couldn't get a doc to try maoi for me so I had to go the self medication route) I have a very sleepy fatigued depression so the Goldshield was working wonders for me. I found a psych who would, since I was already on it, rx it for me so I started taking the American version - Glaxo I guess. The activation immediately faded. My theory is that Glaxo reformulated and removed the amph metabolites somehow. Why its still okay to have activating Parnate in the UK, but not here, who knows? But for me, Glaxo parnate not worth taking; Goldshield was the BOMB. I unforunately can't handle the diet and all so can't go back to it. But that's my experience. Hope I was able to fill in what you were looking for.
>
> Suzie

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » Tomatheus

Posted by shasling on October 21, 2006, at 7:23:29

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on October 21, 2006, at 1:09:03

Hi Tomatheus,

Thats just my theory, of course, with nothing to back it up. Based on the most simple of observations. My then pdoc agreed with it so I thought I'd keep it : ) Ultimately, it doesnt matter to me what the difference was, because the US version simply did not bring the same relief of the UK version. At the end of the day I couldnt take the diet anymore, so had to abandon the whole thing. Now on Abilify and provigil and doing actually very well with the same sleepy depression you describe. Might look into it - worth a try maybe.

Best of luck,

Suzie

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate

Posted by michael on October 24, 2006, at 1:56:40

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate » shasling, posted by Tomatheus on October 21, 2006, at 1:09:03

> Suzie,
>
> Thank you so much for your response. I apologize for taking so long to acknowledge what you wrote.
>
> I think it's very encouraging to hear that you found the Goldshield tranylcypromine to be noticeably more efficacious than the Glaxo Parnate. I too have a "sleepy fatigued" kind of depression that (among other things) is characterized by extreme psychomotor retardation, lethargy, hypersomnia, unrefreshing sleep, and leaden paralysis. My energy levels have actually been so low as of late that I have not been able to write and post messages of any coherence for the last few days.
>
> When I took the Glaxo Parnate previously, I noticed a distinct energizing effect on the first day that lasted for a few hours (I suspect that what I felt might have been caused by Parnate's amphetamine metabolites, but I can't say for sure). But after the energizing effect faded, I felt extremely sleepy and could not stay awake no matter how hard I tried. After being on the Glaxo Parnate for a few days, I seemed to develop a tolerance to the drug's energizing effect but still could not keep myself awake in the middle of the day, no matter what I did (I tried drinking lots of coffee to combat the sleepiness, but to no avail). So, for the most part, I found the Glaxo Parnate to be a very sedating drug, which obviously did not help me with the type of depressive disorder that I suffer from. I probably should have tried staying on the Glaxo Parnate for longer than I did (I stayed on it for about two weeks), but I was taking afternoon and evening classes at a university at the time, and I didn't want to fail my courses due to bad attendance.
>
> Your theory that Glaxo might have removed Parnate's amphetamine metabolites is very interesting and thought-provoking. It's difficult to imagine how Glaxo could have removed Parnate's metabolites without changing the active ingredient (which has remained the same over the years despite changes in the drug's inactive ingredients), but I find your theory to be interesting nevertheless, and I thank you for sharing it with all of us.
>
> Of course, whether or not the version of Parnate that's currently being sold in the U.S. lacks amphetamine metabolites, I think there is no questioning the fact that you found the Goldshield tranylcypromine to be significantly more activating than the Glaxo version. I realize that not everybody's experience with Parnate will mirror yours and that there's no guarantee that the Goldshield version will work for me. But considering that Nardil is the only psychiatric medication that's ever produced more than a few days' worth of meaningful clinical benefits for me (I was feeling *so normal* on a specially prepared version of the Australian Nardil for about a month until the manufacturer stopped putting silica gel inside the bottles), I certainly think that it would be worthwhile to try the Goldshield tranylcypromine. I am very strongly considering ordering it from an online pharmacy that I've used in the past. I know that it's generally not advisable to go the self-medication route, but quite frankly, the meds that I've ordered from overseas have generally worked much better than any of the meds that my pdoc ever prescribed me. I'd certainly prefer to "play by the rules," so to speak, just as I did for the first few years of receiving psychopharmacological treatments. But when it comes down to it, I'd prefer to take medications that are actually effective at treating my psychiatric illness instead of paying my pdoc more than $100 a session to prescribe me medications that just make my condition worse (and consequently put me deeper into debt by keeping me out of work for longer). So, as you did with the Goldshield tranylcypromine and as I did previously with the Australian Nardil, I will probably continue to travel down the forbidden path of self-medication -- most likely by ordering the Goldshield tranylcypromine for myself.
>
> Thanks again for your helpful post. As I mentioned, I found it encouraging to read about your experience with the Goldshield tranylcypromine, and I'm sorry to hear that you weren't able to continue taking it. I hope that everything is going ok for you in your struggle with this illness.
>
> Tomatheus
>
> > Tomatheus,
> >
> > I think you have hit the nail on the head. The Goldshield was very activating for me; upon research I find that Parnate "has" amphetamine metabolites. I am unfortunately acquianted with amph, and recognized it as that.
> >
> > I think I was taking 10 or 20 mg per day, not very many b/c of the cost and hassle to obtain. (Couldn't get a doc to try maoi for me so I had to go the self medication route) I have a very sleepy fatigued depression so the Goldshield was working wonders for me. I found a psych who would, since I was already on it, rx it for me so I started taking the American version - Glaxo I guess. The activation immediately faded. My theory is that Glaxo reformulated and removed the amph metabolites somehow. Why its still okay to have activating Parnate in the UK, but not here, who knows? But for me, Glaxo parnate not worth taking; Goldshield was the BOMB. I unforunately can't handle the diet and all so can't go back to it. But that's my experience. Hope I was able to fill in what you were looking for.
> >
> > Suzie
>
>


...just fyi:

First, let me say that I do not dispute the observation that there may be differences between the 2 formulations of Parnate - nor that there may be differences in how each makes someone feel.

However, I believe that a metabolite is what results from the body processing / changing [or metabolizing] the substance ingested. A metabolite can not be "removed" from the medication because it does not exist until the body transforms [or metabolizes] the initial substance into the resultant metabolite(s).

My understanding is that, in this case, amphetamine is one of the substances that results from the body breaking down [or metabolizing] the Parnate.

I know, this is probably just a matter of vocabulary... and I do understand the intent of the discussion. I mention it only because it the way in which the word "metabolite" was being used/mis-used [kind of as a synonym for ingredient?] could be very confusing...

Apologies if I'm being too critical - no intention to offend anyone. The distinction just seemed relevant - and kind of important - to understanding the discussion.

And lastly, I will add that I am neither a doctor, nor a dictionary... Nonetheless, I am fairly certain that what I've written above is accurate. ...and if not, hopefully someone who knows better will correct me!

michael

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » michael

Posted by shasling on October 24, 2006, at 6:29:41

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate, posted by michael on October 24, 2006, at 1:56:40

Nah, not too critical. Like I said, I'm a pharma dummy, who was just looking for a reason that one worked great, was extremely - almost overly -activating, and the other was like eating candy. Not trying to be right, just trying to understand why one did what the other did not. Since pdoc concurred, figured it was maybe worth something, but hey what do they ever know either? :) Understand what metabolites are, but they have to come from some precursor that I thought maybe was removed in some reformulation scheme, because they are without a doubt a different animal...
Thanks for the input,

Suzie

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate

Posted by michael on October 24, 2006, at 8:31:31

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate » michael, posted by shasling on October 24, 2006, at 6:29:41

> Nah, not too critical. Like I said, I'm a pharma dummy, who was just looking for a reason that one worked great, was extremely - almost overly -activating, and the other was like eating candy. Not trying to be right, just trying to understand why one did what the other did not. Since pdoc concurred, figured it was maybe worth something, but hey what do they ever know either? :) Understand what metabolites are, but they have to come from some precursor that I thought maybe was removed in some reformulation scheme, because they are without a doubt a different animal...
> Thanks for the input,
>
> Suzie

I'm no pharma-genius myself... and I'm not saying that your theory is wrong (I just found the vocabulary used in the conversation to be a bit confusing).

I found the discussion interesting, because I just stopped Parnate 60 mg / day. [20 mg tid] I was tired too... Doing the "wash-out" right now.

Wish I would've known about, & could've tried, the Goldshield Parnate to see if I would've gotten any energizing effect from it. That's precisely what I need!

michael

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » michael

Posted by shasling on October 24, 2006, at 8:42:02

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate, posted by michael on October 24, 2006, at 8:31:31

> I'm no pharma-genius myself... and I'm not saying that your theory is wrong (I just found the vocabulary used in the conversation to be a bit confusing).
>
> I found the discussion interesting, because I just stopped Parnate 60 mg / day. [20 mg tid] I was tired too... Doing the "wash-out" right now.
>
> Wish I would've known about, & could've tried, the Goldshield Parnate to see if I would've gotten any energizing effect from it. That's precisely what I need!
>
> michael


Oh its still available. I just decided that even as great as it was for me, I couldn't deal with the diet.

Suzie

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate

Posted by michael on October 24, 2006, at 9:44:03

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate » michael, posted by shasling on October 24, 2006, at 8:42:02

> > I'm no pharma-genius myself... and I'm not saying that your theory is wrong (I just found the vocabulary used in the conversation to be a bit confusing).
> >
> > I found the discussion interesting, because I just stopped Parnate 60 mg / day. [20 mg tid] I was tired too... Doing the "wash-out" right now.
> >
> > Wish I would've known about, & could've tried, the Goldshield Parnate to see if I would've gotten any energizing effect from it. That's precisely what I need!
> >
> > michael
>
>
> Oh its still available. I just decided that even as great as it was for me, I couldn't deal with the diet.
>
> Suzie
>

I haven't had any problems w/the diet, but I'm already over a week into my wash-out... and I'd have to find it first, then order it, etc. So it seems that at least for now, I may as well finish the wash-out and try whatever's next... But thanks for the info... you never know, I may try that option out some day...

michael

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate

Posted by elanor roosevelt on October 25, 2006, at 14:45:42

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate, posted by michael on October 24, 2006, at 9:44:03

michael,
may i ask what's "next"
i am not liking the parnate
have taken endless meds

 

Re: Goldshield Parnate » elanor roosevelt

Posted by michael on October 25, 2006, at 16:06:36

In reply to Re: Goldshield Parnate, posted by elanor roosevelt on October 25, 2006, at 14:45:42

> michael,
> may i ask what's "next"
> i am not liking the parnate
> have taken endless meds


Hi,

Rather than rewrite, I'm just going to post a link to a thread that I started a little while ago... Let me know if this doesn't answer your questions.

See this thread: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20061011/msgs/693850.html

michael


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