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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tessellated on October 10, 2006, at 12:25:41
For those of you with insomnia as a result of meds, it might not be all bad. These studies don't contain med influenced insomnia, but show that sleep meds shorten life span.
The arguement fuels the big pharma conspiracy theories, and perhaps this is a debate comparable to butter vs. margarine.
Regardless its the first article I've found that argues the reverse of most of the popular medias perspective.http://www.livescience.com/humanbiology/060323_sleep_deprivation.html
Posted by pseudoname on October 10, 2006, at 15:42:22
In reply to Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by tessellated on October 10, 2006, at 12:25:41
Well, that would be one less thing for me to worry about. I *feel* like I get enough sleep, but it's not the supposedly required 8 or 9 hours, so I worry.
I'd like to know what the actual numbers are behind the longevity assertion, though:
> The Cancer Prevention Study II even showed that people with serious insomnia or who only get 3.5 hours of sleep per night, live longer than people who get more than 7.5 hours.
Also, one fact left out of that article is that for every hour less that you sleep per night, you gain more than two extra weeks per year of wakeful living. That means that a 7-hour sleeper can actually live more than A YEAR's worth of extra waking time over her adult life than her 8-hour-sleeping twin does, even if they die on the same day. You can do a lot in a year.
Posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 19:52:31
In reply to Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by tessellated on October 10, 2006, at 12:25:41
The only problem for us on this possable treatment is.......how different will the meds be when taken the next day with no sleep.
A lot of drugs act differently when a good rest is had,as opposed to acting very strange when taken on no sleep
Posted by Phillipa on October 10, 2006, at 21:28:51
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by willyee on October 10, 2006, at 19:52:31
I can't function on no sleep. And where are the stages of sleep on deprevation? I don't buy it sorry. Love Phillipa ps eat a candy get cancer
Posted by notfred on October 10, 2006, at 23:37:50
In reply to Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by tessellated on October 10, 2006, at 12:25:41
I disagree that this article indicates " Sleep Deprivation improves longevity"
Here is what it says:
"There is really no evidence that the average 8-hour sleeper functions better than the average 6- or 7-hour sleeper," Kripke says, on the basis of his ongoing psychiatric practice with patients along with research, including the large study of a million adults"
6-8 hours seems normal for most people & I do not see where it is suggested sleep deprivation is a good thing. Sleeping more than you need to may not improve functioning. Amount of sleep needed is highly personal, so if someone needs 8 and another person can function as well on 6, does this really tell us anything about sleeping less or more having benefits ?
Posted by laima on October 13, 2006, at 11:03:45
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by notfred on October 10, 2006, at 23:37:50
Thanks, sharp reading! There are accounts of people dying due to total sleep deprivation, and it doesn't take all that long. Days of total sleep deprivation is of course also one of the controversial torture methods used in certain wars going on. (No risk for further comment.) I speculate too, that sleep needs might vary over seasons and over the lifespan, and it's well documented that, for example, teens need much more like 10 hours, whereas elderly people do fine on as little as 4-5. Like you say, kind of individual. Alas, my problem in winter, even as early as October when the darkness starts, is needing more sleep than I wish I needed to function optimally. Those younger people who claim they need 3-4 hours of sleep and feel great either won a genetic lottery, or are lying, in my opinion.> I disagree that this article indicates " Sleep Deprivation improves longevity"
>
> Here is what it says:
>
> "There is really no evidence that the average 8-hour sleeper functions better than the average 6- or 7-hour sleeper," Kripke says, on the basis of his ongoing psychiatric practice with patients along with research, including the large study of a million adults"
>
> 6-8 hours seems normal for most people & I do not see where it is suggested sleep deprivation is a good thing. Sleeping more than you need to may not improve functioning. Amount of sleep needed is highly personal, so if someone needs 8 and another person can function as well on 6, does this really tell us anything about sleeping less or more having benefits ?
>
>
Posted by Jost on October 13, 2006, at 21:53:16
In reply to Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by tessellated on October 10, 2006, at 12:25:41
It's not clear to me that longevity is affected, if you take out accidents caused by some sort of mental exhaustion and reduced judgment-- rather than, the benefits of sleep deprivation per se.
I also have to wonder, because I've read that serious accidents, like Chernobyl and Bopal, were caused by sleep deprivation--perhaps aggravated by shift changes. Perhaps that was urban myth-- I'm not sure. But ingeneral, I do wonder about the over all thesis.
If people with 3.5 hours of sleep (ie those with extreme sleep deprivation) outlive those with 7.5 hours of sleep a night-- I really have to wonder if there's a design flaw in the study (a different one from Kripke's, but also cited-- aside from the issue of what it's like to live that way, which is a secondary problem.
Science generates counterintuitive facts-- but still.
Jost
Only part of article that addresses the reasons for longevity:
"Hypnotic drugs have dangerous side effects, Kripke says. For one, they reduce fear of risky behavior, such as driving fast. Ironically, that could result in the inability to see that the sleeping pills are doing more harm than good over time.A recent study published in the British Medical Journal showed that the risks of taking sleeping pills (benzodiazepines and other sedatives, in this case) outweighed the benefits among people over 60 in a series of studies carried out between 1966 and 2003. The pills helped people fall asleep and they slept more, but they were twice as likely to slip and fall or crash a car due to dizziness from the pills than they were to get a better night's sleep. "
Posted by notfred on October 14, 2006, at 0:34:28
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by Jost on October 13, 2006, at 21:53:16
> A recent study published in the British Medical Journal showed that the risks of taking sleeping pills (benzodiazepines and other sedatives, in this case) outweighed the benefits among people over 60
Hopefully the newer shorter acting meds will be safer for older folks. Dalmane (Flurazepam) is a common sleep med for older folks. With a half life
of a day or so it seems risky.
Posted by tessellated on October 19, 2006, at 2:10:23
In reply to Re: Sleep Deprivation improves longevity, posted by notfred on October 14, 2006, at 0:34:28
I agree there are definitely questions around this thesis, and how the study would support it. mainly i like questioning the purpose of sleep, as it seems so unknown.
personally, my depression is associated with a desire for more sleep and a vegetative state. whereas mania and elevated moods generally accompany reduced sleep.
i've found the maoi's to often generate an insomnia which though uncomfortable, is associated with better more restful sleep and less REM.
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