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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 9:07:15
Does anyone know of a competent and humane mental health center- not a hospital that throws scary, violent folks in with people with mood disorders with a few med cocktails-based on whatever drug reps were over that week-- but a kind, thorough, and effective place that can facilitate genuine healing? Non judgemental, state-of-the-art, interdisciplinary and dedicated? Maybe a nice outdoor setting? Wouldn't a spa make a geat mental health facility? If only... Any ideas? ANYWHERE. It would be worth travelling to. No new-age quacks or gurus please. Thanks!
Posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2006, at 11:58:41
In reply to mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 9:07:15
Betty Ford Center but no meds allowed. Love Phillipa
Posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 16:02:51
In reply to Re: mental health centers » helpme, posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2006, at 11:58:41
> Betty Ford Center but no meds allowed. Love Phillipa
Thank you, interesting. No meds allowed though? Is it a rehab center? I'll google it.
Posted by fca on July 5, 2006, at 16:39:26
In reply to mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 9:07:15
You really need to be more specific--are you asking about a residential treatment center, outpatient mental health center, intensive outpatient, does cost make a difference, do you have insurance for what are you hoping to be treated, do you expect to need medication and psychiatric intervention. Does it really not make any difference where it is located? I ask these questions because I am familiar with a number of programs in the country--I have run a number of community mental health centers, done a fair amount of consulting, and recently had to find a place for my daughter who has coocurring addiction and MH problems--and yes, I am also a consumer of MH services
Posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2006, at 16:48:37
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 16:02:51
It's rehab. Love Phillipa
Posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 17:08:21
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by fca on July 5, 2006, at 16:39:26
Well, I lost my job some months ago due to missing work over panic attacks and other physical manifestations of anxiety- I couldn't manage and it was a stressful office with manipulative management who had us spying on each other. I was also working on my grad degree at the time. I feel I have burnt out and can't figure how to respark. I still have COBRA until December- it's PPO and quite good. Mostly, I want someone to take the time and to be inquisitive and open minded enough to help me try to figure out why all of the antidepressents I've ever tried failed. I have "atypical treatment resistant depression". Medical doctors say my deblitating physical symptoms- mostly severe nausea and fatique- are "psychological". Maybe..maybe not. I want to go somewhere where I do not have to be scared of the other patients, that is, I do not want to have a screaming schizophrenic who threatens to kill me to be my roomate. I want a calm and nurturing environment, but still no-nonsense. I want to be able to relate to the other patients, and not have them be picked up off the street and dropped off nightly by the police- that was a culture shock and I simply could not relate to them in the group therapies. This indeed happened at the private teaching hospital where I last stayed. I do not want staff members to be burnt out, brush me off, or to treat me disrespectfully or scornfully. Many people were judgemental, I was surprised to discover, after they incorrectly deduced I tried to kill myself. I also experienced a staff member who challenged me that there was no way I, a mental patient, could have earned a masters degree. I want doctors to take their time and not rush to conclusions or pile me up with a new drug cocktail. I want to take as few drugs as possible, but know some will be unavoidable at least for now. My recent kidney and liver tests suggest that they are strained. I have been given cocktails of up to 9 drugs in the past, and that is nothing but one side effect on top of another. I do not want to be a professional Mental Patient. I am interested in therapies like DBT rather than psychoanalysis, and I would like practical guidance for getting my life back together- like finding a job after a long and hard to explain unemployment, and reconnecting with friends who lost patience with me for being vaguely unwell so long- or help for finding new friends. I would like to be able to go outside. I am not planning to kill myself, and do not want to be treated like a criminal. I am in pain. I'm open minded to a variety of situations- I wonder about places like Mayo because I heard they are interdisciplinary. I guess I'm just looking for a good treatment center, I am open to a variety of ideas- my # 1 concern is to feel ok and functional. I live in Chicago if that makes any difference, but am open to travel for a really good center elsewhere if that need be. By the way, I have had a near impossible time trying to find a DBT group here taking new people- there is too much demmand.
> You really need to be more specific--are you asking about a residential treatment center, outpatient mental health center, intensive outpatient, does cost make a difference, do you have insurance for what are you hoping to be treated, do you expect to need medication and psychiatric intervention. Does it really not make any difference where it is located? I ask these questions because I am familiar with a number of programs in the country--I have run a number of community mental health centers, done a fair amount of consulting, and recently had to find a place for my daughter who has coocurring addiction and MH problems--and yes, I am also a consumer of MH services
Posted by Phillipa on July 5, 2006, at 17:21:56
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 17:08:21
I hate to tell you this but I don't think they exist anymore with the budget cuts and so but why not google treatment centers. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tomatheus on July 5, 2006, at 18:24:00
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 17:08:21
Helpme,
See below for my responses...
Tomatheus
> Well, I lost my job some months ago due to missing work over panic attacks and other physical manifestations of anxiety- I couldn't manage and it was a stressful office with manipulative management who had us spying on each other. I was also working on my grad degree at the time. I feel I have burnt out and can't figure how to respark. I still have COBRA until December- it's PPO and quite good. Mostly, I want someone to take the time and to be inquisitive and open minded enough to help me try to figure out why all of the antidepressents I've ever tried failed. I have "atypical treatment resistant depression".
Have you ever taken any of the MAOIs? If so, which ones have you tried, and what have your responses been?
My depression is also atypical and relatively "treatment resistant." However, like others on this board, I think that the term "treatment resistant" unfairly puts the blame on the patient instead of where it belongs: on the doctors and the treatments themselves. In other words, I wouldn't say that it's you who's "resisting" to respond to the appropriate treatments for your conditions. Instead, I think it would be more accurate to say that your doctors have "resisted" to provide effective treatment for you. Either that or the drug companies have "resisted" to develop a medication that effectively treats your condition. (Sorry if I'm getting too nitpicky.)
> I want to go somewhere where I do not have to be scared of the other patients, that is, I do not want to have a screaming schizophrenic who threatens to kill me to be my roomate. I want a calm and nurturing environment, but still no-nonsense. I want to be able to relate to the other patients, and not have them be picked up off the street and dropped off nightly by the police- that was a culture shock and I simply could not relate to them in the group therapies. This indeed happened at the private teaching hospital where I last stayed. I do not want staff members to be burnt out, brush me off, or to treat me disrespectfully or scornfully.
All I can say is that I can relate to what you're saying and that it certainly doesn't sound to me like you're asking for too much. I wish that I knew of a facility that fits what you've just described. Of course, if I knew of such a place, there's a good chance that I'd be there myself ... assuming that I could afford it.
Personally, I'm a little cynical when it comes to residential mental health facilities. I'm not going to say that the type of facility that you've described doesn't exist because I can't rule out the possibility that such a place does exist. I'm wondering if you might benefit more from simply having a good pdoc and/or a good therapist: a pdoc who would have more sense than to put a patient on nine different meds at once and a therapist who'd be willing to give you the kind of "practical guidance" that you need. Then again, you very well might have already tried several pdocs and therapists only to benefit very little (if at all) from their expensive services. But if there's one thing that I could recommend, it would be this: don't lose hope that the right psychiatrist and/or therapist for you is out there. *Good* mental health professionals may be hard to find (depending on how lucky or unlucky you are), but they are out there.
> Many people were judgemental, I was surprised to discover, after they incorrectly deduced I tried to kill myself. I also experienced a staff member who challenged me that there was no way I, a mental patient, could have earned a masters degree.
Some things never cease to amaze me (I would go into more detail, but I don't think that I'd be able to do so without being "uncivil" toward the staff member who you referred to).
Posted by fca on July 5, 2006, at 20:25:44
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 17:08:21
thanks so much for the aditional information--I am very doubtful you will find what you are looking for in a hospital or even 'specialized residential facility". If for no other reason than the only way these places can survive financially is through private insurance. Medicaid and Medicare which are only going to pay for patients who are quite symptomatic. Even the "best" of hospitals,including most teaching hospitals, are going to have very ill patients. (Very ill usually means a fair number who are acutuely dangerous to self or others) There maybe a few upscale residential facilities where you might find the environment you are hoping for--Mostly in the Southwest and california--At these places one needs to expect that much of the cost will need to be self pay and you are probably talking about $35,000 to $50,000
(at a minimum) for 30 days. we were looking at speciatly programs for my daughter and that is the range if you really want access to hands on psychiatric services--there are many retreats (spas) where they have consultant pssychiatrists while you are doing yoga and riding horses--one place charged $200 per day extra for equine therapy.
ALl in all, I am with the poster who said your best bet is to find a good pdoc who specializes in TX resistant depression. Several years ago I heard one speak and I was amazed at the efforts he used to rule out physical bases for some of the patients--it ws amost like listening to episode of "House"--I can not remember his name and I do not have the brochure but I know the physcian who organized the conference and I will see if he remembers--I would start googling the hell out of what it is you are looking for--look for professional articles on the subject and back track authors, etc. I will get back to you even if I can not find the name
Posted by helpme on July 6, 2006, at 7:50:11
In reply to Re: mental health centers » helpme, posted by Tomatheus on July 5, 2006, at 18:24:00
Thank you for such a long and thoughtful response. I don't think I'll ever find a mental health center like what I was hoping for, perhaps a spa-like place- but finding the best psychiatrist possible is my best bet. I did start selegeline in January- not much luck, and then EMSAM when it came out- again not much luck. However, I suspect that the doses have been too low- never over 20mg on the pills and I'm on the smallest patch now. I may discuss with my doctor about upping that. I remember reading that to get an antidepressent result it should be more like 40 mg. I'll find out. I do feel pretty spooked about all the food restrictions though. How on earth do people manage?? Are there special cookbooks? All my favorite foods are forbidden, but if the drug REALLY worked, I could be fine with that.As for mental health centers/hospitals, I conclude that they are barbaric bunk more for the benefit of curious residents who get to see all kinds of cases in one convenient location, rather for the patients themselves. I'm rather cynical too, after what I went through at a "great" hospital. Did I mention I resented loads of them cycling in and out of the ward, mouths open, with their little notebooks, pencils busy?
But mostly, what you say about "treatment resistant" is rather thought provoking. It is nice to have at least one less thing to blame myself for!
Posted by fca on July 6, 2006, at 12:48:11
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 6, 2006, at 7:50:11
The psychiatrist of whom I was thinking is Jay Amsterdam M.D. Univ Pa Dept of Psychiatry in Philadelphia.
His presentation on treatment resistant depression was brilliant and heartfelt--I see he is head of depression research--Once I got his name I googled "Jay Amsterdam M.D. resistant depression" If you do the same you will see some of the lectures he has given as well as books he has authored and some audio cassettes that are available--with a little research you might be able to find some tie ins with the chicago area--there have to be some very worth while resources in Chicago-I believe some the early work with TMS (tramscranial magnetic stimulation and vagal nerve stimulation was done in chicago) I know there are some research facilities in the Chicago area doing work on resistant depression. Good luck on finding the right pdoc--you might even be so bold as to write a personal note to Dr. Amsterdam, tell him you have been dx with "treatment resistant deprression", you have heard of his reputation and can he recommend any colleagues, clinics, centers or research facilities in the chicago area. The worst that can happen is he does not respond or you get a canned response from an administrative assistant. Good Luck fca
Posted by Karen44 on July 6, 2006, at 23:15:01
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 5, 2006, at 17:08:21
> Well, I lost my job some months ago due to missing work over panic attacks and other physical manifestations of anxiety- I couldn't manage and it was a stressful office with manipulative management who had us spying on each other. I was also working on my grad degree at the time. I feel I have burnt out and can't figure how to respark. I still have COBRA until December- it's PPO and quite good. Mostly, I want someone to take the time and to be inquisitive and open minded enough to help me try to figure out why all of the antidepressents I've ever tried failed. I have "atypical treatment resistant depression". Medical doctors say my deblitating physical symptoms- mostly severe nausea and fatique- are "psychological". Maybe..maybe not. I want to go somewhere where I do not have to be scared of the other patients, that is, I do not want to have a screaming schizophrenic who threatens to kill me to be my roomate. I want a calm and nurturing environment, but still no-nonsense. I want to be able to relate to the other patients, and not have them be picked up off the street and dropped off nightly by the police- that was a culture shock and I simply could not relate to them in the group therapies. This indeed happened at the private teaching hospital where I last stayed. I do not want staff members to be burnt out, brush me off, or to treat me disrespectfully or scornfully. Many people were judgemental, I was surprised to discover, after they incorrectly deduced I tried to kill myself. I also experienced a staff member who challenged me that there was no way I, a mental patient, could have earned a masters degree. I want doctors to take their time and not rush to conclusions or pile me up with a new drug cocktail. I want to take as few drugs as possible, but know some will be unavoidable at least for now. My recent kidney and liver tests suggest that they are strained. I have been given cocktails of up to 9 drugs in the past, and that is nothing but one side effect on top of another. I do not want to be a professional Mental Patient. I am interested in therapies like DBT rather than psychoanalysis, and I would like practical guidance for getting my life back together- like finding a job after a long and hard to explain unemployment, and reconnecting with friends who lost patience with me for being vaguely unwell so long- or help for finding new friends. I would like to be able to go outside. I am not planning to kill myself, and do not want to be treated like a criminal. I am in pain. I'm open minded to a variety of situations- I wonder about places like Mayo because I heard they are interdisciplinary. I guess I'm just looking for a good treatment center, I am open to a variety of ideas- my # 1 concern is to feel ok and functional. I live in Chicago if that makes any difference, but am open to travel for a really good center elsewhere if that need be. By the way, I have had a near impossible time trying to find a DBT group here taking new people- there is too much demmand.
>
>
>
>
> > You really need to be more specific--are you asking about a residential treatment center, outpatient mental health center, intensive outpatient, does cost make a difference, do you have insurance for what are you hoping to be treated, do you expect to need medication and psychiatric intervention. Does it really not make any difference where it is located? I ask these questions because I am familiar with a number of programs in the country--I have run a number of community mental health centers, done a fair amount of consulting, and recently had to find a place for my daughter who has coocurring addiction and MH problems--and yes, I am also a consumer of MH services
>
>I would highly recommend the Menninger Clinic; used to be in Topeka, Kansas but moved to Houston, Texas.
Karen
Posted by helpme on July 7, 2006, at 9:07:41
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by Karen44 on July 6, 2006, at 23:15:01
Oh thank you- I will look them up. I've heard of them.> I would highly recommend the Menninger Clinic; used to be in Topeka, Kansas but moved to Houston, Texas.
>
> Karen
>
Posted by 10derHeart on July 7, 2006, at 23:17:19
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by helpme on July 6, 2006, at 7:50:11
If you really could travel, McLean Hospital in MA has an impecable reputation, AFAIK. But I think, it's *very* expensive and geared toward those who can self-pay. An upside seems to be a variety of programs geared toward different circumstances....
Their website seems quite informative:
http://www.mclean.harvard.edu/
My best to you in your quest, helpme,....my daughter's boyfriend is going through some similar circumstances, and the whole thing is incredibly frustrating, which as you know, can just add anxiety and hopelessness where there is already so much suffering.......grrrrr....!
Posted by Karen44 on July 8, 2006, at 1:57:29
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by 10derHeart on July 7, 2006, at 23:17:19
> If you really could travel, McLean Hospital in MA has an impecable reputation, AFAIK. But I think, it's *very* expensive and geared toward those who can self-pay. An upside seems to be a variety of programs geared toward different circumstances....
>
> Their website seems quite informative:
>
> http://www.mclean.harvard.edu/
>
> My best to you in your quest, helpme,....my daughter's boyfriend is going through some similar circumstances, and the whole thing is incredibly frustrating, which as you know, can just add anxiety and hopelessness where there is already so much suffering.......grrrrr....!I would add that The Menninger Clinic is also expensive, but I don't think it or McLean is any more expensive than say, The University of Chicago or Northwestern (I am in the Chicago area too). I trained at Menninger's when it was in Topeka and when they were ranked no. 1 and/or no. 2 in the country--have fallen in the rankings since going to Houston, but they still have some good programs and doctors from the original clinic. Here is their website:
menningerclinic.com
Karen
Posted by helpme on July 8, 2006, at 10:41:55
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by 10derHeart on July 7, 2006, at 23:17:19
Thank you, I'll look at it.
Amazing thought: I was treated so disdainfully the time I was in a psych ward. This past spring I went to a different hospital with a kidney infection. They didn't know anything about the previous psychiatric hospitalization. Though they too were understaffed, etc- all heard was "Are you all right honey? Is your roomate alright? Staff alright? Be sure to let us know if you have any comments or needs. Can we do anything else for you? So sorry you are suffering. Can we do anything else tomake you more comfortable? Maybe you'd like to see the desert menu, or a tv guide? Anything to read? Oh, you do some neat things at your job." etc. AND they explained everything. So different!!!
> If you really could travel, McLean Hospital in MA has an impecable reputation, AFAIK. But I think, it's *very* expensive and geared toward those who can self-pay. An upside seems to be a variety of programs geared toward different circumstances....
>
> Their website seems quite informative:
>
> http://www.mclean.harvard.edu/
>
> My best to you in your quest, helpme,....my daughter's boyfriend is going through some similar circumstances, and the whole thing is incredibly frustrating, which as you know, can just add anxiety and hopelessness where there is already so much suffering.......grrrrr....!
Posted by pulse on July 9, 2006, at 10:51:01
In reply to Re: mental health centers, posted by fca on July 5, 2006, at 20:25:44
thanx for the states in which there are these places, and the out of pocket $ for 1 month. i've read you, and had known of the meadows in az, as 2 friends went there right from hazelden (what a major DUD hazelden IS, imNho), and, then did SO very much better at the meadows. but, i couldn't for the life of me, remember the name. i never needed such a place as the meadows, but a current friend could sorely use it. the staff listed on their site is the best of the best, especially terry real!
i've been in-patient 3-4 times in detox units; also 3-4 times in psych only places, plus one detox had an on-same-floor psych unit. i never minded one bit being in with these so-called scary people that are danger to self and others. i must just have an inate way of befriending and/or managing them. it's really not hard at all.
my experiences were quite positive overall, not to mention informative. (if only my dx hadn't been wrong for all of these admissions, which all occurred within those mis-dxed 9 yrs!)
but, ahhhh ....for the days of the southern rest cure places: sitting back in rattan lounge chairs outside, drinking mint julips. only problem is that i hate alcohol, not to mention mint. iced tea, no lemon, perhaps?
pulse
This is the end of the thread.
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