Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 659752

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Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria

Posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 14:15:50

I am new to this board and have several questions. I am currently a college student in my senior year. For most of my life i've had problems which seem to be related to poor dopamine transmission (social anxiety, anhedonia, apathy, alogia, attention deficit). These symptoms seem to be similar to dysthimia and negative schizophrenia. I am completely asocial and have little interest in making friends or being around people. For most of my life i've had little motivation to do anything. In my second year of college i decided to go to see a p-doc and got a prescription for an ssri (paxil). I took a pill and the very next day i noticed an effect from it, which i hear is unusual. I would describe it as if a light bulb was turned on in my head because the whole world seemed like it was 5 shades brighter. Other unusual effects included, looking different in the mirror and being interested in watching sports on television (for the first time in my life). I did not feel any euphoria. This perceptual change of the world lasted approximately 2 weeks then the effect wore off. After the 2 week mark I began to feel terrible on the drug. I couldn't concentrate, developed insomnia, restless legs, worsened apathy, tremors. I told the p-doc that i wanted to try something new. For the next 2 months he gave me one ssri after another and i felt terrible for the entire time i was on them. It took me a long time to realize that it was the drug that was making me feel so badly. Anyway the p-doc gave me wellbutrin to try. So i stopped taking the ssri. After a couple of days i went through withdrawal. The withdrawal from it was great. I became mildly euphoric (hypomania?). I then started the wellbutrin which compounded my good state of mood. This hypomania lasted about 2 good weeks which were the best in my life. I felt pleasure for the first time, was very social and non-apathetic. I also became much funnier to other people. I believe what happened here is that the ssri caused dopamine depletion which upregulated my dopamine receptors. Then when i withdrew from it the supersensitive receptors were bombarded with dopamine from the wellbutrin. Eventually however i grew a tolerance to this effect and was back to my old self. People at my work were puzzled that i no longer had anything to say to them. Currently I am taking remeron, adderall and buspar with good effects as to apathy, attention and motivation. I am still, however, not really social and still don't experience much pleasure. Sorry for this long post, anyway here are my questions. First does my history seem like i could be some kind of bipolar. My mood never changed before taking drugs, and i my mood is very stable on the combination i am on now. The next question i have is has anybody else experienced euphoria from ssri or antipsychotic withdrawal? It seems like you could take a typical antipsychotic with potent d1 and d2 receptor antagonism. Then take it for a few weeks and deal with dysphoria. Then when you withdrew would you recieve an antidepressant action from upregulated dopamine receptors. Does this seem like a viable strategy? What is the risk of psychoses or tardive dyskinseas (spelling?). I have tried to do it with an ssri again. It works, but takes a long time. With an antipsychotic it might be faster. If anyone has any thoughts on this i'd appreciate them.

 

Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria

Posted by linkadge on June 21, 2006, at 15:12:52

In reply to Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 14:15:50

What you describe is fairly common. It is important to keep a ballance, I suppose.

The brain is really sensitive to abrupt neuochemical changes.

SSRI's might not deplete dopamine as much as they will put up restraints upon its release via the 5-ht2 system, and other receptors.

Other ideas include, taking prozac (every other day or every third day), remeron SSRI combo.

Prozac wellbutrin combo.

Try SJW, shows uptake blocade for serotonin norepinephrine and dopamine.

YOu could try zoloft, which tends to cause less apathy than others, (mild dopamine uptake inhibition)

Dopamine and serotonin work together to create pleasure and reward, so pulling it one way or the other for too long will likely produce problems.

This is all theory of course, who knows what might eventually help you.


Linkadge

 

Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria

Posted by Phillipa on June 21, 2006, at 15:53:42

In reply to Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by linkadge on June 21, 2006, at 15:12:52

What's the atypical antipsychotic for? Love Phillipa

 

I was almost shaking when I read your post

Posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 19:52:29

In reply to Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 14:15:50

My experience with meds seem quite atypical, and I find it hard to find people who actually relate to my experience, and I can say what you illustrated replicates almost EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE GONE THROUGH

I was quite reserved, not very social or interesting. Had a few loyal friends, pretty dull and quiet when I was in a group.

Went on paxil for depression, first few weeks I had a different mindsent, and my personality seemed to have been boosted. I was more creative, more talktative, I had a newfound interest in politics, I seemed much more intellectual and articulate, I seemed much more bright. I talked fast, I was making jokes in class, I was quick witted made more friends, became noticed in school - more people liked me because they knew me. I could paint my ideas clearly, everything made sense - hypomania??

And after a couple weeks this elation subsided, and I seemed to have maintained somewhat of a mental boost but some of the color faded. It's really hard to articulate.

ANyway, things just went down with the paxil so I went off it and experienced euphoria, it was almost a different yet equally satisfying feeling that I experienced when going on the med. It was more of a relaxing mental boost rather then a hyper mental boost,. I had creativity, increased socially. All that euphoria sooned waned as the med completely depleted from my system. ANd this has replayed itself anytime I first go on and off an ad.

It has come to the point where, if I am on an ad, I will try and maintain that heavenly zone that I experience when I'm weening off, or increaseing the dose by declining to take it for some time, because it is during this time when I'm at my peak, creativity wise, social wise, articulate wise.

Probably hypomania, definite change in some aspects of my personality.

If only I could maintain that feeling for the longterm, when I take ad's as described my personality just wanes. It seems better then any stimulant I have taken, it brightens my personality like nothing else, and I have 0 complications.

 

Re: I was almost shaking when I read your post

Posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 19:56:52

In reply to I was almost shaking when I read your post, posted by mike lynch on June 21, 2006, at 19:52:29

* on one thing

When I am increasing the dose/just going on the med is when I experience the hypomania feeling, but when I am weening myself off, or I abstain from the med for a few days, it seems to be a different issue then hypomania, I don't feel really sped up I just feel a relaxing boost, I am not speeding like I am when I am increasing the dose/ just going on the med.

 

d1 and d2 receptors

Posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 20:28:21

In reply to Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 14:15:50

From what I have read the d1 receptor subtype is found in large numbers in the prefrontal cortex the area of the brain behind your forehead. I believe that activation of this subtype of receptor allievates apathy, poor attention and increases verbal fluency. The verbal fluency is important because it explains why some people always seem to say the right thing, while others have nothing interesting to say. The D2 receptors especially the ones located in the nucleus accumbens are associated with feelings of pleasure. Stimulation of these receptors decreases anhedonia and increases locomotor activity. Locomotor activity is basically how fast you talk. Depressed people have psychomotor retardation and talk very slow. While manic people talk too fast. So for me increasing dopamine is good but it leads to down regulation of the receptor and a loss of good effect. That's why i was wondering if the antipsychotic could upregulated those receptors. Of course it seems like the risks could be fairly substantial. I wonder though if it is possible that those receptors would upregulated semi-permanently. Obviously you wouldn't want psychoses or tardive dyskinseas. There was an article i read referring to antidepressant effects of antipsychotic withdrawal. I can't find it though. Maybe the receptors would downregulate again after time, i don't know. If anybody is has any binding affinities for typical antipsychotics or other knowledge on this subject, it would be appreciated.

 

Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria

Posted by med_empowered on June 22, 2006, at 13:33:54

In reply to Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 14:15:50

hi! yeah, I read something about doing the AP withdrawal thing way back in the days of Thorazine...apparently, they noticed that withdrawal of an AP (sometimes used to treat anxiety, agitation, psychosis...pretty much whatever) led to a rapid improvement in condition. I don't know if it's really the best long-term strategy, though; APs are tricky drugs.

Maybe you could try something new like adding Effexor (Effexor+Remeron="California Rocketfuel"; with the BuSpar and adderall in there, you could get even more AD action). Maybe a low-dose atypical would help? Abilify is both an antagonist and an agonist; since it comes in pills as low as 2mgs, it seems like you could take a tiny amount and see if you get more a stimulant effect. Adding Wellbutrin or Provigil seems like it might help, too.

 

Re: d1 and d2 receptors

Posted by linkadge on June 22, 2006, at 15:25:43

In reply to d1 and d2 receptors, posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 20:28:21

I don't know if that would work. The regulation of the receptors is in such a way to accomidate for the the correct amount of stimulation. So if you block the receptors with an AP, sure they might upregulate, but then you've got the drug blocking some of them, I don't know if over all second messenger activation would be any different.


Linkadge

 

supersensitive dopamine receptors

Posted by hgi698 on June 22, 2006, at 19:48:30

In reply to Re: d1 and d2 receptors, posted by linkadge on June 22, 2006, at 15:25:43

I found the article that talked about it.

Dopaminergic Mechanisms in Depression and Mania

Paul Willner

"In similar vein, antidepressant effects on withdrawal of neuroleptics are well documented, though the evidence tends to arise from case reports rather than formal studies [89]. In a controlled trial, Del Zompo et al. treated depressed patients with a cocktail of haloperidol and chlorimipramine, and reported marked improvement, relative to a group treated with chlorimipramine alone, when the haloperidol component was withdrawn after three weeks treatment. It was assumed that the improvement resulted from the unmasking of DA receptors rendered supersensitive by chronic neuroleptic treatment [28]. Clearly, more trials of this kind are needed, and the proposed mechanism of action requires confirmation."
Link (http://www.acnp.org/g4/GN401000093/CH.html)

 

Re: supersensitive dopamine receptors

Posted by linkadge on June 22, 2006, at 20:38:08

In reply to supersensitive dopamine receptors, posted by hgi698 on June 22, 2006, at 19:48:30

But how long could that possibly last? I mean the receptors are constantly re-regulating themselves. With the neuroleptic gone, the receptors will reduce their sensitivity to the new level of dopamine.

Linkadge

 

Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria » hgi698

Posted by shasling on June 23, 2006, at 7:51:54

In reply to Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by hgi698 on June 21, 2006, at 14:15:50

Just FYI, my symptoms are similar to yours, and small doses of Abilify treat it very nicely. Mood, apathy, social interaction, acuity all improved. Even better now as I have added Provigil. Actually doing faily well on this combo. The Provigil alone never helped this much, the Abilify really seems to contribute something that no other med ever has.

Suzie

 

Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria

Posted by offzolofthooray! on August 17, 2012, at 13:38:04

In reply to Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria » hgi698, posted by shasling on June 23, 2006, at 7:51:54

I am a male in my late 60's.

About three weeks ago I started weaning myself off Zoloft (100 mg daily). I have tried to quit many times over the past 10 or 15 years. Previously, my wife and or children have always said, "Are you off your meds?" They notice little difference in my behavior this time.

This time, instead of cutting my dose in half and seeing how things went, I tried something new. I cut my dosage in half and took 50 mg every other day instead of every day.

An additional factor during the withdrawal period has been exercising. For the first week, I worked out at the gym every other day (40+ minutes of aerobics) and during the second week I went on a rigorous 60+ mile hike at up to 12,000+ feet elevation.

I am currently recovering from the hike but I expect to return to the gym today.

After returning from the hike four days ago, I quit taking the medication. During this time, I have experienced periods of light-headedness, occasional problems with balance, restless leg syndrome, pins and needles on various parts of my body (especially my feet). Today, I am in a state of sustained euphoria. Other than occasional bouts of poor equilibrium, I have no other negative symptoms. And my libido has returned to pre-Zoloft levels. I am horny all the time.

What's up? It's not supposed to be this way and I am waiting for the the bottom to drop out. (Not really. This is the way it should be.)

My withdrawal symptoms are so atypical I felt I just had to share them. Hooray! I think I'm off Zoloft and life is good!

 

Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria » offzolofthooray!

Posted by Phillipa on August 17, 2012, at 21:26:19

In reply to Re: Antipsychotic/SSRI Withdrawal Euphoria, posted by offzolofthooray! on August 17, 2012, at 13:38:04

I don't know but since this link is old. Could you post this as a new thread on the medication board. Others would love to weigh in on this. Phillipa


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