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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by heaven help me on May 31, 2006, at 7:37:01
In reply to Re: GEODON - TARDIVE DYSKINESIA MOVIE OF MYSELF » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on May 30, 2006, at 22:16:29
Is it certain the TD will be a side effect that will turn up sooner or later for we Geodon users? I can't see the video for some reason on my computer but I am REALLY wondering about this...having been on Geodon for a few months
blessings
mary
Posted by willyee on May 31, 2006, at 9:43:13
In reply to GEODON - TARDIVE DYSKINESIA MOVIE OF MYSELF, posted by Jeroen on May 30, 2006, at 12:22:17
Uplaod the video to a video host like www.putfile.com and youll have a url that will definaly work.
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 10:08:50
In reply to Re: GEODON - TARDIVE DYSKINESIA MOVIE OF MYSELF, posted by willyee on May 31, 2006, at 9:43:13
http://media.putfile.com/GEODON-TARDIVE-DYSKINESIA
you have to wait a little bit it will work, thanks for the advice! now everybody can see my ugly face with jerky rolling geodon eyes
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 11:06:47
In reply to ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE, posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 10:08:50
> http://media.putfile.com/GEODON-TARDIVE-DYSKINESIA
>
>
> you have to wait a little bit it will work, thanks for the advice! now everybody can see my ugly face with jerky rolling geodon eyesOkay. Wow! Not okay. I'm sorry, jer.
I really want to help. It's going to be hard.
Lar
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 11:56:53
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE » Jeroen, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 11:06:47
lol, i made the movie as ugly as i could, i hope they show it on national geographic, about geodon
Posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2006, at 12:20:36
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE, posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 11:56:53
Jeron sent a copy to the drug company. Can you sue in Belgium? Love Phillipa so sorry it's horrible for you. ps and my doc just prescribed geodon for me at 80mg no way I'm taking it. Did you handle the seroquel?
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 12:35:54
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2006, at 12:20:36
sue.... never planning to do so but with this scary movie 5 :) i might win how i pothetic ive become by taking geodon to get back to school and get my diploma!
and the doctor that laughed at my misery blindness, too bad i didnt had that one tape, and his treaths when i said i'm gonna sue you (just trying to be realistic),
Posted by yxibow on May 31, 2006, at 12:50:01
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2006, at 12:20:36
I agree it is an awful imagery -- and it could likely be TD, but nobody has glanced the slightest at having his doctor do an AIMS exam.
There are indeed syndromes that are not TD but appear to be -- fasciculations. This could be TD, but should be evaluated by a trained individual.
TD generally, but not always appears later in treatment -- that is why it is called tardive (late) dyskinesia. It may appear earlier if the individual has been exposed to non atypical antipsychotics or strong doses of atypicals for a shorter interval.
One thing to remember with TD also, is that 30% completely remit, 30% stay about the same, and 30% do unfortunately get worse.
There are a variety of ways to deal with it, including switching atypicals, which has worked for some individuals to lower their AIMS level.
Also, available in parts of Europe, tetrabenazine (Nitoman), a dopamine depleter, has also been shown to significantly reduce TD in some individuals -- it does carry the risk of pseudoparkinsonism unfortunately but one has to evaluate the risk between the two.
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 12:50:55
In reply to ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE, posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 10:08:50
i am reporting my case to the drug lawyer companys online
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 13:09:17
In reply to i am reporting my case to the lawyer companys onli, posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 12:50:55
just called them they said, NOT INTERESTED ONLY DIABETES
lol, its just part of human evolution in the drug industry that people are complaining, and at the end, there is none... case closedwe all want to make money
Posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 13:47:06
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE, posted by yxibow on May 31, 2006, at 12:50:01
i'm not gonna sue because, i wanna be happy and not involved with that kind of stuff, sorry about my behavior! but i can't stand that this happens to young children, adults i got it on my 21 birthday.
well, case closed
Posted by honeybee on May 31, 2006, at 17:48:25
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE » Jeroen, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 11:06:47
Jereon,
I don't really know how much this would help you. Seriously. Especially because I don't really know your story or your situation (I'm a newbie). But have you ever thought of getting in touch with an acupuncturist? I'm not quite sure how much they'd be able to help, but they might be able to, if it's a good one.
I only say this because I had a mild, annoying, yet persistant blepharospasm for several months. What seemed to help (again, this is bizarre) was pressing on a specific acupuncture point for me. It hasn't cracked my depression yet, but somehow it had an effect on that, and on my asthma.
hb
Posted by Phillipa on May 31, 2006, at 18:50:45
In reply to i'm not gonna sue.... i wanna be happy and not, posted by Jeroen on May 31, 2006, at 13:47:06
Jeroen wasn't seroquel helping? Love Phillipa
Posted by yxibow on May 31, 2006, at 19:01:10
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE, posted by honeybee on May 31, 2006, at 17:48:25
Seriously, Jeroen, I feel your pain with what looks like a possible TD case but are you in contact with your doctor and have you had an AIMS exam. Its an important evaluative tool to see how severe your TD is, if it is TD.
As for legal action, I'm afraid that would be in your own country, and cases involving TD have only gotten into court when it involves patients admitted involuntarily and then being given Haldol or the like.
This is the time to brainstorm with your own doctor, if it is TD, the medical suggestions made by people, including myself, to try to alleviate. Switching atypical antipsychotics has helped in some patients. Taking ultra high dose BuSpar and Vitamin E has helped in a limited number of patients. Tetrabenazine (Nitoman) has also helped some patients.
The one thing that would also determine that it is really TD is that anticholinergics make the condition worse -- I'm not suggesting you do this, but things like Benadryl and Cogentin aggravate TD -- its not quite understood why, but they do.
It also is probably not, or at least could be masked TD, if you increased or started a dose of either Klonopin or Valium and the facial movements decreased.
It is something that all of us who take antipsychotics worry about, but it has to be taken in account that the majority of all TD cases happen because they're tardive -- that is, they happen late in treatment. The patient is also typically unaware of the fact that they have TD unless pointed out by a doctor or family member. This may strike you as odd, but it is a generally known fact of TD cases.
I wish you a lot of good luck and I don't want you to feel miserable, so please try with your psychiatrist to do some of what I had mentioned above.
best wishes from across the pond
Jay
Posted by heaven help me on May 31, 2006, at 21:00:51
In reply to Re: ***** WORKING LINK MOVIE ********** UPDATE, posted by yxibow on May 31, 2006, at 19:01:10
I take 120mg Geodon a day and I am starting to get feaked out about it but I found this info today, here is part of it:
If neuroleptic drugs have been used, or are being used, there is substantial evidence (at least seven studies) which show that tardive dyskinesia can be avoided and/or treated, through the use of certain nutrients, especially vitamin E. One professional suggests the following to prevent or treat tardive dyskinesia:
Vitamin E, 400-800 units/day
Vitamin B6, 100-200 mg./day
Vitamin C, 1000 mg./day
Vitamin B3, 100-200 mg./day (niacinamide)
Multiple mineral tablet containing about 3-5 mg. of manganese
AND, here is the link it came from:
http://www.autism.org/tardiv.html
Posted by yxibow on June 1, 2006, at 0:11:37
In reply to web info on TD...you guys are freaking me out, posted by heaven help me on May 31, 2006, at 21:00:51
> I take 120mg Geodon a day and I am starting to get feaked out about it but I found this info today, here is part of it:
>
> If neuroleptic drugs have been used, or are being used, there is substantial evidence (at least seven studies) which show that tardive dyskinesia can be avoided and/or treated, through the use of certain nutrients, especially vitamin E. One professional suggests the following to prevent or treat tardive dyskinesia:
>
> Vitamin E, 400-800 units/day
> Vitamin B6, 100-200 mg./day
> Vitamin C, 1000 mg./day
> Vitamin B3, 100-200 mg./day (niacinamide)
> Multiple mineral tablet containing about 3-5 mg. of manganese
> AND, here is the link it came from:
> http://www.autism.org/tardiv.html
That is not, by the way, the official Autism society's web page -- it is a private research group.But, yes, Vitamin E has been recommended as a neuroprotective, and despite no double blind studies, I do take 400 IU a day, the maximum one should really take as there are issues of internal bleeding. For treatment of TD, 1600 IU has been used successfully in some cases, but again, there have been little double blind studies illustrating it.
The thing about TD is that it can remit during treatment, thus one never knows whether it was the Vitamin E or not without a double blind study. It can also remit with a switch to a different neuroleptic. It can be exacerbated also in some studies by abrupt discontinuation of any neuroleptic. The only neuroleptic to date that has not caused more than a few isolated TD cases is Clozaril, which carries a 2% mandatory discontinuation if mandatory blood tests determine agranulocytosis (low white blood cell count.) Clozaril has also been shown to help those with TD. To this date, we have no conclusive studies on the potential of TD, and naturally that leaves the patient with the decision of "informed consent" to take a neuroleptic.
I do worry at times about my use of Seroquel, though it is the least powerful at D2 of all antipsychotics other than Clozaril which has nearly no affinity (Clozaril is more powerful in other ways as a "gold standard" for treatment resistant schizophreniform spectrum disorders.)
There was a study by the British Journal of Pharmacology, if I recall, on a rather substantial number of patients on Zyprexa. It was determined that the average annual rate of TD was 1/2% per year -- theoretically if you lived 100 years, you could say that could be up to 50% cumulative, although that is not exactly how TD manifests, nor how statistics work. Seroquel is even weaker than Zyprexa which has a fair affinity for D2, so I suppose I could extrapolate to 1/4%, but its in the "we don't know department."
Geodon has a fairly strong affinity for D2 and thus if one is exhibiting strong EPS on Geodon, there is a greater likelyhood of developing TD at some undetermined, but definately tardive (late) period. This would be based on the theory that strong EPS is an indicator of a possibility of strong TD, again, not conclusively proven either.
What one should do, under their own "informed consent" while taking an antipsychotic is have a regular AIMS exam -- typically every 6 months, by your trained psychiatrist. If a psychiatrist is prescribing antipsychotics, they should know how to perform an AIMS exam which is a subjective level of TD. There are other things out there that may mimic TD, but fall below the standard of actually calling it TD, such as fasciculations, pseudoparkinsonism, and other EPS manifestations.
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 5:42:10
In reply to Re: web info on TD...you guys are freaking me out » heaven help me, posted by yxibow on June 1, 2006, at 0:11:37
> But, yes, Vitamin E has been recommended as a neuroprotective, and despite no double blind studies, I do take 400 IU a day, the maximum one should really take as there are issues of internal bleeding.
I love your posts.
The bleeding thing is *not* due to vitamin E consumption. If you refer to the NAP publications (full-text books readable online), you'll find that the bleeding issues arise only because of concommitant vitamin K deficiency. They put the warning on the wrong nutrient, IMHO.
http://fermat.nap.edu/openbook/0309069351/html/index.html
Also, all this research into vitamin E lately is so messed up. Most of it, if not all, has been using synthetic vitamin E, the d-alpha-tocopherol isomer. There are eight natural isomers, and an equal number of tocotrienols, that also fall under the broader rubric "vitamin E".
In particular, excess d-alpha displace d-gamma from its assigned tasks, and *that*, IMHO, is the reason for the adverse health effects of what they are falsely calling vitamin E supplementation. Vitamin E supplementation should include sixteen chemicals, and they're using just one. The imbalance is causing the problems.
Lar
Posted by flip_flop on June 1, 2006, at 10:59:33
In reply to GEODON - TARDIVE DYSKINESIA MOVIE OF MYSELF, posted by Jeroen on May 30, 2006, at 12:22:17
Sulpiride, tiapride and memantine have also been shown to be able to improve TD.
Posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 12:25:49
In reply to Re: web info on TD...you guys are freaking me out » yxibow, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 5:42:10
Larry, I'm a layman (woman). Can you tell me exactly which vitamin E to take? as in, what would it say on the bottle?
Thanks!, again,
mary
Posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 12:28:54
In reply to Re: web info on TD...you guys are freaking me out » heaven help me, posted by yxibow on June 1, 2006, at 0:11:37
Thank you yxibow, I ill print out your response and take it to my Dr. and ask about the AIMS exam. I appreciate your input
blessings
mary
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 12:41:25
In reply to Larry, WHICH vit E to take?..., posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 12:25:49
> Larry, I'm a layman (woman). Can you tell me exactly which vitamin E to take? as in, what would it say on the bottle?
> Thanks!, again,
> marymixed tocopherols
or, it would list them
you want to especially see gamma
not *just* d-alpha
that's just the easiest one to make in a chemical plantLar
Posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 13:04:27
In reply to Re: Larry, WHICH vit E to take?... » heaven help me, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 12:41:25
(just left the alternative board) My teenage daughter and I are best friends and I'd say that a big part of it is that I listen to *her* music with her, day in - day out. It took me a while but now I really like it and in the mix, we became great friends. So, ENJOY the concert!
Posted by linkadge on June 1, 2006, at 15:35:18
In reply to thanks, Larry, and about that concert..., posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 13:04:27
If you are not psychotic, don't take antispychotics. There are other drugs, that your psychiatrist probably hasn't tried that will function the same way for anxiety or sleep problems.
Linkadge
Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 17:59:44
In reply to thanks, Larry, and about that concert..., posted by heaven help me on June 1, 2006, at 13:04:27
> (just left the alternative board) My teenage daughter and I are best friends and I'd say that a big part of it is that I listen to *her* music with her, day in - day out. It took me a while but now I really like it and in the mix, we became great friends. So, ENJOY the concert!
Oh, we did! Sorry. I can get very single-minded in my writing/thinking.
My fourteen year old son, Alex, started expressing interest in guitars, especially the bass guitar. So, I dug out my old Ricky bass(much love there, but I injured my arm), and we primped and polished and re-strung it and set it all up. Bought him a practise amp. It lives with him, the bass, but it comes here when he does. That's the only rule. I get to hold it, too.
Oh, the concert..... Doh!
We saw The Cult, and two other bands. Bangkok 5, out of LA, and one other. The Cult did some really guitar-hook laden stuff back in the 80's. "Love Removal Machine." "Fire Woman." "Wildflower." He'd heard lots of their stuff before, even if he didn't know the band.
Great show. Great to do this with my son. His neck hurt from the head slam thing. I'm glad I never learned *that* one.
When he woke up the next morning (just before noon), I was playing my six string. He said he thought he was still at the concert.
My ex was with my other son that weekend, just so we could do this thing. Thomas's turn comes this summer. He wants to go fishing. Cabin. Boat.
Yup.
Thanks for asking.
Memories being laid down. Good memories.
Lar
Posted by Jeroen on June 2, 2006, at 16:30:20
hi, i hope you enjoyed my brain damage movie caused by the geodon (NEW ANTI PSYCHOTIC FOR $360 a month we will give you permanent brain damage 50% chance you will feel good) IT COST A LOT SOOOOOOOO WE WILL KICK UR BUT! haha. funny the doc said when i got off it, to the drug company, his eyes are rolling uncontrolled when hes riding his bike, ok bye, ok so now our trial with geodon ended, what about Abilify? all my friends used to call it get back sick medicine after a while :(
ok, 3 people i have known at the hospital, commited suicide, several friends (especially the girl who broke my heart and hell started at the right time when we were gonna have a relationship for a while)
ooooh *SLAP* JEROEN in the face, u dumb *ss! like they told me in school
DO NOT TAKE GEODON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it has sudden death warning, they all tell you it's not gonna happen... but it does
i've read story about a woman on geodon, worst side effects ever,
heart attack, tardive dyskinesia, especially the eye!
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