Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 649879

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

rasagiline superior to selegiline?

Posted by Jakeman on May 28, 2006, at 19:18:48

I was wondering if anyone has tried rasagiline or has any comments about this article:

Rasagiline : a neuroprotective smart drug?
http://www.rasagiline.com

I found this excerpt to be interesting:

"The main therapeutic advantage of rasagiline over the other selective irreversible monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor selegiline (l-deprenyl, Eldepryl) is that rasagiline does not have the perhaps toxic amphetamine metabolic breakdown products of the structurally similar selegiline. Subjectively, rasagiline feels "cleaner".

warm regards, Jake

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2006, at 21:45:30

In reply to rasagiline superior to selegiline?, posted by Jakeman on May 28, 2006, at 19:18:48

> I was wondering if anyone has tried rasagiline or has any comments about this article:
>
> Rasagiline : a neuroprotective smart drug?
> http://www.rasagiline.com
>
> I found this excerpt to be interesting:
>
> "The main therapeutic advantage of rasagiline over the other selective irreversible monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor selegiline (l-deprenyl, Eldepryl) is that rasagiline does not have the perhaps toxic amphetamine metabolic breakdown products of the structurally similar selegiline. Subjectively, rasagiline feels "cleaner".
>
> warm regards, Jake

I haven't tried rasagiline. Glad to hear it has a cleaner feel. I do not attribute toxicity to selegeline, though. No perhaps about it. Barring idiosyncratic toxicity, I mean. I do not attribute a general toxic effect to selegeline, period.

Lar

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline?

Posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2006, at 23:00:35

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 28, 2006, at 21:45:30

Jake you can't keep from getting older. Love Phillipa

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Phillipa

Posted by Jakeman on May 29, 2006, at 0:15:46

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline?, posted by Phillipa on May 28, 2006, at 23:00:35

> Jake you can't keep from getting older. Love Phillipa

I see that in the mirror every day :-)

Jake

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman

Posted by Phillipa on May 29, 2006, at 0:26:30

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Phillipa, posted by Jakeman on May 29, 2006, at 0:15:46

Yeah me too maybe we can get a special on plastic surgery. Love Phillipa

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman

Posted by yxibow on May 29, 2006, at 18:35:45

In reply to rasagiline superior to selegiline?, posted by Jakeman on May 28, 2006, at 19:18:48

> I was wondering if anyone has tried rasagiline or has any comments about this article:
>
> Rasagiline : a neuroprotective smart drug?
> http://www.rasagiline.com
>
> I found this excerpt to be interesting:
>
> "The main therapeutic advantage of rasagiline over the other selective irreversible monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor selegiline (l-deprenyl, Eldepryl) is that rasagiline does not have the perhaps toxic amphetamine metabolic breakdown products of the structurally similar selegiline. Subjectively, rasagiline feels "cleaner".
>
> warm regards, Jake


That was a biopyschiatry.com article copy -- they have some interesting information but one has to take the selections with a grain of salt. Nevertheless it has some interesting information.

It was recently approved for use in the US for parkinson's (www.azilect.com) and will be in pharmacies soon. It also has a tyramine restrictive diet and could theoretically cause dyskinesias though those are more common with levidopa administration

http://www.azilect.com/comingsoon/PrescribingInformation.pdf

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman

Posted by Donna Louise on May 31, 2006, at 21:05:43

In reply to rasagiline superior to selegiline?, posted by Jakeman on May 28, 2006, at 19:18:48

> I was wondering if anyone has tried rasagiline or has any comments about this article:
>
> Rasagiline : a neuroprotective smart drug?
> http://www.rasagiline.com
>
> I found this excerpt to be interesting:
>
> "The main therapeutic advantage of rasagiline over the other selective irreversible monoamine oxidase-B inhibitor selegiline (l-deprenyl, Eldepryl) is that rasagiline does not have the perhaps toxic amphetamine metabolic breakdown products of the structurally similar selegiline. Subjectively, rasagiline feels "cleaner".
>
> warm regards, Jake
>
>

But see, one of the main advantages of the transdermal delivery system is that you don't get the same amount of amphetamine metabolites, even if they were toxic which I have not read that they are. So this may be true if you are talking about oral selegiline but it is probably no 'cleaner' than EMSAM.

Donna

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Donna Louise

Posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 21:34:27

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman, posted by Donna Louise on May 31, 2006, at 21:05:43

>
> But see, one of the main advantages of the transdermal delivery system is that you don't get the same amount of amphetamine metabolites, even if they were toxic which I have not read that they are. So this may be true if you are talking about oral selegiline but it is probably no 'cleaner' than EMSAM.
>
> Donna

Is that because the amphetamine metabolites are eliminated before they get to receptor sites? I was not clear on that from reading the emsam monographs (I have a weak to nil knowledge of biochemistry).

BTW, where is Chairman MAO?

warm regards, Jake

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 21:37:47

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Donna Louise, posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 21:34:27

> >
> > But see, one of the main advantages of the transdermal delivery system is that you don't get the same amount of amphetamine metabolites, even if they were toxic which I have not read that they are. So this may be true if you are talking about oral selegiline but it is probably no 'cleaner' than EMSAM.
> >
> > Donna
>
> Is that because the amphetamine metabolites are eliminated before they get to receptor sites? I was not clear on that from reading the emsam monographs (I have a weak to nil knowledge of biochemistry).
>
> BTW, where is Chairman MAO?
>
> warm regards, Jake

The amphetamines aren't formed in the same amounts in the first place, by bypassing the gut and liver first pass metabolism.

Lar

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Larry Hoover

Posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 21:51:30

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on May 31, 2006, at 21:37:47

Lar, so then would it be reasonable to assume that transdermal selegiline would produce less agitation than oral or sublingual delivery?

I appreciate you input, Jake.


>
> The amphetamines aren't formed in the same amounts in the first place, by bypassing the gut and liver first pass metabolism.
>
> Lar

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman

Posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 5:24:24

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Larry Hoover, posted by Jakeman on May 31, 2006, at 21:51:30

> Lar, so then would it be reasonable to assume that transdermal selegiline would produce less agitation than oral or sublingual delivery?
>
> I appreciate you input, Jake.

It would be reasonable to assume that less of the noxious byproducts are formed, when transdermal is compared to oral. Sublingual *is* transdermal. Some of the thinnest dermis in your entire body is in your mouth and your nasal cavities. People snort drugs to take advantage of that. I wouldn't snort selegeline, but......

How a person feels that reduction in byproduct production, is not within the bounds of my projective skill.

Lar

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Larry Hoover

Posted by Iansf on June 3, 2006, at 1:01:50

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Jakeman, posted by Larry Hoover on June 1, 2006, at 5:24:24

Someone earlier challenged the idea that sublingual delivery bypassed the digestive system. He or she claimed it is not equivalent to transdermal delivery but rather the same as oral. Is that incorrect? I don't have enough information to know one way or the other, but I'm eager to find out. I cannot afford Emsam, but I could afford liquid selegiline. So if six drops (= to 6 mg) under the tongue works the same as a 6mg patch, I would be extremely happy.


> It would be reasonable to assume that less of the noxious byproducts are formed, when transdermal is compared to oral. Sublingual *is* transdermal. Some of the thinnest dermis in your entire body is in your mouth and your nasal cavities. People snort drugs to take advantage of that. I wouldn't snort selegeline, but......
>
> How a person feels that reduction in byproduct production, is not within the bounds of my projective skill.
>
> Lar

 

Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Iansf

Posted by Donna Louise on June 3, 2006, at 6:18:07

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Larry Hoover, posted by Iansf on June 3, 2006, at 1:01:50

> Someone earlier challenged the idea that sublingual delivery bypassed the digestive system. He or she claimed it is not equivalent to transdermal delivery but rather the same as oral. Is that incorrect? I don't have enough information to know one way or the other, but I'm eager to find out. I cannot afford Emsam, but I could afford liquid selegiline. So if six drops (= to 6 mg) under the tongue works the same as a 6mg patch, I would be extremely happy.
>
>
> > It would be reasonable to assume that less of the noxious byproducts are formed, when transdermal is compared to oral. Sublingual *is* transdermal. Some of the thinnest dermis in your entire body is in your mouth and your nasal cavities. People snort drugs to take advantage of that. I wouldn't snort selegeline, but......
> >
> > How a person feels that reduction in byproduct production, is not within the bounds of my projective skill.
> >
> > Lar
>
>

I am not Larry and this does not address your transdermal question, but the flaw in your idea may be that 6mg EMSAM is equal to 20mg of selegine. If 6 drops of sublingual is equal to 6mg (and I am not sure but I think it is) then you will not be getting the MAOI-A inhibiton, the type that allows for more serotonin. Of course, that may not be what you need and it would not matter. But for me, to treat the depression, it is looking like I will need at least 30mg of Selegiline (9mg patch). The lower doses will help raise NE and DA levels but not serotonin. I don't know anything about sublingual drops, if they come in a high enough mg to get at the serotonin.

donna

 

Re: selegiline delivery, Iansf Donna Louise

Posted by Jakeman on June 3, 2006, at 14:07:30

In reply to Re: rasagiline superior to selegiline? Iansf, posted by Donna Louise on June 3, 2006, at 6:18:07

From what I've read transdermal delivery has a much smoother dose response and more side effects are minimized. It's being absorbed over 24 hours rather than 5 minutes as would happen sublingually. And I suspect with putting drops under the tongue some of it may still go down the throat.

The dosing question has been a little confusing to me. My box of Emsam says: 20 mg (6mg/24h). I assume that means the patch contains 20 mg of selegiline, of which 6 mg is delivered to the body over 24 hours.
http://www.rxlist.com/cgi/generic4/emsam.htm

I mentioned in another thread that Squibb has a patient assistance program and Emsam is one the the drugs on the list.

Warm regards, Jake


> I am not Larry and this does not address your transdermal question, but the flaw in your idea may be that 6mg EMSAM is equal to 20mg of selegine. If 6 drops of sublingual is equal to 6mg (and I am not sure but I think it is) then you will not be getting the MAOI-A inhibiton, the type that allows for more serotonin. Of course, that may not be what you need and it would not matter. But for me, to treat the depression, it is looking like I will need at least 30mg of Selegiline (9mg patch). The lower doses will help raise NE and DA levels but not serotonin. I don't know anything about sublingual drops, if they come in a high enough mg to get at the serotonin.
>
> donna

 

Re: selegiline delivery, Iansf Jakeman

Posted by Larry Hoover on June 3, 2006, at 15:13:02

In reply to Re: selegiline delivery, Iansf Donna Louise, posted by Jakeman on June 3, 2006, at 14:07:30

> It's being absorbed over 24 hours rather than 5 minutes as would happen sublingually.

Sublingually does require more frequent dosing, yes. That is the substantial difference between these two, not the route of absorption.

Lar


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