Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 630549

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Starting emsam soon...thank god, I think!!!!!!!!

Posted by lymom3 on April 30, 2006, at 23:50:16

In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36

What a weekend...yikes. We lost power here about 6pm or so on Saturday night and it came back on about 7pm today, so just over 24 hours. This was just wonderful on so many levels. Me with no computer and on no meds is boredsmiley.gif for everyone! My youngest son had a baseball game today. His uniform was in the washer, in a tub of dirty water when the power went out. There it sat all night as I hoped the power would come back on.
To make things better, my middle son's 18th birthday was today. I didn't have a huge bash or anything but I did make a GIANT pot of chicken cacciatore as that is what he wanted. Not a match in the house, so I had to run to the 7-11 to get a charcoal grill starter to light my stove to cook and had my battery powered lantern so I could see. Sent the birthday boy and his brother up to the laundromat to finish the load of clothes in the washer because I was cooking. Birthday boy was 18 today and brother is 14. They must have called my cell a thousand times trying to figure out how to use a washer and dryer.
I've been a tad bit on the veryangry.gif side without meds anyhow but my husband looked at me this morning and was laughing. He said if the power stayed off 3 or 4 more hours one of us would be dead...lol. We all managed to make it through the day. As luck would have it, the game got rained out and power came back on just in time for dinner. The down side is that I'm now banished to a night on the couch as too many peppers and onions are having an adverse impact on the bedroom air quality.
Back to work tomorrow...watch out!!

Start Tuesday on Emsam. ....Almost afraid to leave home to go to work...I think they might change the locks on me!!!

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil RobertDavid

Posted by jetcity10 on May 1, 2006, at 0:48:16

In reply to EMSAM-Time for next refil, posted by RobertDavid on April 30, 2006, at 15:10:23

Rob, congratulations! One question for you or others on the patch: Have you had one yet that didn't stick? The other day I had one where half of it wouldn't stick. The instructions say to use another one put at the cost per patch I ended up taping it on with medical tape. I was just curious if anyone else has had a similar problem.

This Wednesday I will start week 3. It is by far the best response I have had with any med and while I have significant anxiety I can't help but believe some of it is related to the fact that I have been depressed most of my life and I don't have a clue how to live not feeling depressed. At 2.5 weeks the side effect of poor sleep continues but since I have increased energy during the day, I feel better than I did when I was sleeping more. There is also the anxiety, but I am more than willing to deal with it.

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil jetcity10

Posted by RobertDavid on May 1, 2006, at 1:13:54

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil RobertDavid, posted by jetcity10 on May 1, 2006, at 0:48:16

> Rob, congratulations! One question for you or others on the patch: Have you had one yet that didn't stick? The other day I had one where half of it wouldn't stick. The instructions say to use another one put at the cost per patch I ended up taping it on with medical tape. I was just curious if anyone else has had a similar problem.
>
> This Wednesday I will start week 3. It is by far the best response I have had with any med and while I have significant anxiety I can't help but believe some of it is related to the fact that I have been depressed most of my life and I don't have a clue how to live not feeling depressed. At 2.5 weeks the side effect of poor sleep continues but since I have increased energy during the day, I feel better than I did when I was sleeping more. There is also the anxiety, but I am more than willing to deal with it.


Congrats on your great start. Only a couple of times have I had a very limited part of the patch come off, just the edges. I have yet to need to "re patch" though. It's stayed on after a big sweat from exersize, from bathing or from being in a jacuzzi, but those were the occations I noticed it wasn't quite as "stuck" at least by the next morning.

I make sure I put my patch on just after showering in the morning and making sure I'm dry. I also make sure I don't have any lotion on the area I apply the patch and it's washed to get rid of any oil. I have found that there are a few area's like my stomach where it sticks tighter to the point it's harder to take off.

I also slap it kind of hard after applying to get a good seal. At this point I'm so happy with it that part of the reason I slap it on so hard is I want the med to really soak through, get working which is quite a contrast from any mental thoughts I've had with taking any other medicine. I have this sense that "it's good for me", must be to have my dark cloud lifted.

Perhaps I'm not having anxiety issues as I take klonopin with it (but am slowly reducing dose). And the further out I get the better I sleep. I have on a few occations added lunesta when I really had to get up early and needed a good nights sleep, but otherwise regardles of how well I sleep I seem to have good mood and energy through the day.

Lastly something I've noticed. The few occations I've gone out drinking the typical next day blues aren't there (not sure that's a good thing for me). I used to feel quite depressed and anxious the next day after going out and having a few. I really notice a difference which shows me how much it's helping my dysthimia and anxiety.

Anyway, sounds like a very positive start and my guess is that you're body will adjust to it and you'll start sleeping better. For me when I sleep better my anxiety goes way down. Perhaps you might try ambien or lunesta a few nights to get you through these next few weeks. Otherwise if you don't take a benzo, perhaps you could short term to help out a little bit with anxiety and sleep. Just a thought. I'm glad you're doing better! Rob

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil

Posted by Donna Louise on May 1, 2006, at 7:23:34

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil, posted by egas on April 30, 2006, at 23:39:02

Dear Egas, I am deeply saddened to hear how despondant (not a strong enough word) you are feeling. Who knows about these things, but in my NSHO you must are supposed to be here and living or you wouldn't be. Even though it sucks so bad. I am just so sorry that it hurts so much. My heart goes out to you, truly.

Donna

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil jetcity10

Posted by Donna Louise on May 1, 2006, at 7:29:00

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil RobertDavid, posted by jetcity10 on May 1, 2006, at 0:48:16

My first patch came off in the middle of the night. I knew it was going to, it started trying to do that in the evening. I shower at night, can't stand to have water touch me in the morning, so I scrub a spot and then put it on. Today it is on my upper thigh. Yesterday I put it on my chest and I think my skin moves so much there it just got loose. I ride horses and sweat alot so I may end up duck taping them on. Unless someone knows a better tape. Horse people duck tape everyhthing...And I won't use a second one if I flub the first, I am way too cheap for that. I would rather look like a wounded soldier with all this grey wrapping holding me together. Ha.

Donna

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil

Posted by stowe on May 1, 2006, at 8:39:18

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil jetcity10, posted by Donna Louise on May 1, 2006, at 7:29:00

Hi all,

First of all, Egas, please hold on. I KNOW and FEEL your pain to my core, as I have been there and that feeling of utter hopelessness is always lurking in the back of my spirit. Thankfully, my bright spirit is usually able to override the darkness. It IS hard, and no one can truly understand unless they have felt it. But please know that you matter and mean so much in this world. Hold on..... and I pray for you.

I have been following this "thread" for the last few weeks with great anticipation for all of you who are trialing this new patch. I will likely be on the same path soon. I am trying to get the courage to taper off my remeron.... It seems we all have a similar story of having tried everything and this is a last hope. I limp through my life right now on remeron and just try to cope with the massive sedation and inability to really function the way I want to. But, it beats the depression and anxiety symptoms.... and suicidal thoughts.

Anyway, I am really writing to add my thoughts re: keeping the patch on. I use an estrogen patch one week each month and it would most definetely fall off without my handy bandaid. I use the waterproof durable bandaids and it stays on beautifully for 3 days. Give that a try. May be gentler on the skin than duct tape!

Good luck to EVERYONE out there. Thank goodness for this forum of support. It is the only place I have found where I feel like others are really going through the same thing I am. What a generous and special group out there. And hand on tight, Paul, as you get back to your prozac. One moment at a time.....

HOpe to also here more success stories which are SO SO encouraging. Good luck to lymom!!

all the best and may we all have peace in our hearts,
gigi

 

Re: EMSAM-egas

Posted by ravenstorm on May 1, 2006, at 9:34:40

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil, posted by stowe on May 1, 2006, at 8:39:18

How is your withdrawal going? I know for me, I get severley suicidal while going through drug withdrawal, so please please please call and get help or go somewhere if you need to. Keep posting, we care!

I know how you feel. Ensam was going to be my last chance too, as I need something to bypass the stomach due to GI problems. At this point, I am waiting to try though, as I am concerned about the after affects if it doesn't work. It takes me forever to get back anywhere near sort of functioning after going through a withdrawal. I'm not real functional now, but it is way better than I am months and months after withdrawal!

THERE IS HOPE FOR YOU. At least you can take meds orally. Go to neurotransmitter.net and look at all the new drugs in phase III trials. You will be able to try one of those once they go to market.

I don't have any hope until a drug called nemifitide (which is only in phase II) comes out (it also bypasses the GI tract).

Have you considered ECT or rtMS?

Please don't give up.

 

Re: EMSAM-egas

Posted by stowe on May 1, 2006, at 12:25:22

In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by ravenstorm on May 1, 2006, at 9:34:40

thanks, Ravenstorm , for your support and suggestions. I actually have not gotten up the courage yet to taper/withdraw from the remeron to try the emsam. I have been on the remeron for 5 months now (after a year of trying 16 various drugs and combinations with unbearable and unlivable side effects...) I am savoring the ability to sleep at night and "having my anchor again." At some point I will need to get off this drug so I can be fully functional again, but as we all know, the depression/anxiety puts one's life in the toilet. So for now I am coasting. Managing to work 3 days a week as a nurse and somewhat be there for my husband and 2 kids. They miss the "active mom," though, I know. But I just keep telling myself that at least I am here..... I almost wasn't a few months back.

So, thanks for the suggestions and support. I will definetely check out the website you suggested. Just knowing that some other meds may come down the pipeline gives comfort. And best of luck with your med choices. everyone: keep us posted.

warmly,
gigi

 

Re: EMSAM-egas

Posted by tgo on May 1, 2006, at 18:40:29

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil, posted by egas on April 30, 2006, at 23:39:02

Egas dear, please don't give up. I know it is very discouraging to try a new med that you really hope will finally be the one that will work for you and then it doesn't end up helping. I'm sure we've all been in that position before and understand how it feels to feel like there is no hope left.

Please understand that is the depression that is making you feel this way. You are meant to be here. Life is a learning experience. We learn and grow from everything we go through and it is often very hard, but not more than we can handle.

There is always hope. There is much money to be made by these drug companies and consequently researchers are working everyday to come up with new drug treatments for depression and anxiety. They've got to get it right one of these times and it's too big of a market to be ignored. New drugs are always coming to market. Just hang in there.

You mentioned you have a lung condition. Please take a look at these two sites. I think it might be helpful.

http://curezone.com/forums/m.asp?f=119&i=1892
http://curezone.com/blogs/m.asp?f=573&i=73

I hope you get to feeling better.

tgo

 

Re: EMSAM-egas stowe

Posted by Donna Louise on May 2, 2006, at 8:41:32

In reply to Re: EMSAM-egas, posted by stowe on May 1, 2006, at 12:25:22

> thanks, Ravenstorm , for your support and suggestions. I actually have not gotten up the courage yet to taper/withdraw from the remeron to try the emsam. I have been on the remeron for 5 months now (after a year of trying 16 various drugs and combinations with unbearable and unlivable side effects...) I am savoring the ability to sleep at night and "having my anchor again." At some point I will need to get off this drug so I can be fully functional again, but as we all know, the depression/anxiety puts one's life in the toilet. So for now I am coasting. Managing to work 3 days a week as a nurse and somewhat be there for my husband and 2 kids. They miss the "active mom," though, I know. But I just keep telling myself that at least I am here..... I almost wasn't a few months back.
>
> So, thanks for the suggestions and support. I will definetely check out the website you suggested. Just knowing that some other meds may come down the pipeline gives comfort. And best of luck with your med choices. everyone: keep us posted.
>
> warmly,
> gigi


Gigi, Ravenstorm, all others who have done the horrible withdrawal thing. I have avoided this in the past by taking a little prozac briefly, no withdrawals but I am thinking for Ravenstorm that may not be possible with the gut thing going on. I did not do it the prozac way this time as I did not want to wait 5 weeks to start the patch. I went off the effexor at 75 mg from a 225mg dose and the first week as you know was awful. But now I have this patch on, Day 2, so far no side effects and feeling better. It will still be awhile before I get over the uspet stomach and veritigo from the withdrawal but I am so RELIEVED it is over with. I felt better just being off that. I blab on. I guess I am just saying after the storm and the darkest part of the night, there is the dawn and clear skies. At least for today, that is all I have given to me for now anyway.

Donna

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil stowe

Posted by Donna Louise on May 2, 2006, at 8:44:35

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil, posted by stowe on May 1, 2006, at 8:39:18

Thanks for that bandaid tip. I hope I don't need to use it, I have put it on my upper thigh and it sticks like good glue. I think I said I was on day 2 in my last post. WEll, it is day 3, I am obviously still confused..but it doesn't like my chest but seems to like the upper thigh. The patch I mean.

Donna

 

Re: EMSAM-Donna

Posted by ravenstorm on May 2, 2006, at 8:50:06

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil stowe, posted by Donna Louise on May 2, 2006, at 8:44:35

Oh I tried the prozac "trick" when going of paxil, didn't work. I was on only 2mg for years, just to keep from goi. . .Oh, I don't even want to explain all this again. My withdrawals last for months and its not the throwing up etc that I mind, its that I end up much worse psychiatrically than before I ever tried the drug. I was totally non-functional for over a year after paxil withdrawal.

I'm glad your withdrawal has not been too bad

 

Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better

Posted by strugglingsteve on May 2, 2006, at 14:53:55

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Donna, posted by ravenstorm on May 2, 2006, at 8:50:06

It is 3 weeks today on the patch. Three days ago the serious suicidal depression lifted. I'd say I am mildly to moderately depressed and the agitation is a little better too. I still feel very frustrated and unmotivated but compared to last week, its better. I hope that this is the start of an upward trend. My friend said that its a slow progression upward, anyone out there thats had a response to an AD, is that true???

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil RobertDavid

Posted by theo on May 2, 2006, at 17:21:05

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil jetcity10, posted by RobertDavid on May 1, 2006, at 1:13:54

I'm starting the patch as soon as I get my nerve up, I have had the scrip for a week!

Do you find any difference in absorbtion in placing it on your upper body versus your thigh or hip (underwear area)?

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil theo

Posted by RobertDavid on May 2, 2006, at 18:24:55

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil RobertDavid, posted by theo on May 2, 2006, at 17:21:05

> I'm starting the patch as soon as I get my nerve up, I have had the scrip for a week!
>
> Do you find any difference in absorbtion in placing it on your upper body versus your thigh or hip (underwear area)?


I've pretty much kept the patch on my upper back, chest and arms. I like to keep it high as I like to take long hot baths at night and they say you're suppost to avoid long periods of heat exposure so by keeping it high it doesn't soak in the hot water (for long periods).

On a couple of occations I placed it on my stomach, but never my legs. There are so many options to place it I really don't pay much attention to it and can't say that I've noticed much difference. The chart seems to suggest that it's fine either upper or lower body (outer thighs), but I suspect it doesn't make much difference. I just slap it on where ever I feel like it.

Since I've had such a positive response I will say I like the idea of having on my upper body as I want as much of the drug to get to my brain as possible, but that's just my little mental thing and probably doesn't matter at all. Once I put it on I give it a few good slaps to make sure it sticks well as I want the selegiline to really soak in.

I wish you the best of luck with it and I hope this info helps. Rob

 

Redirect: going of paxil

Posted by Dr. Bob on May 2, 2006, at 19:57:46

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Donna, posted by ravenstorm on May 2, 2006, at 8:50:06

> Oh I tried the prozac "trick" when going of paxil, didn't work...

Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding going of paxil to Psycho-Babble Withdrawal. Here's a link:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20060412/msgs/639404.html

Thanks,

Bob

 

Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil

Posted by jetcity10 on May 2, 2006, at 21:19:31

In reply to Re: EMSAM-Time for next refil theo, posted by RobertDavid on May 2, 2006, at 18:24:55

I have tried many of the places suggested on the instructions. I have not tried the stomach or upper back (I am afraid I couldn't reach well enough on my upper back to get a good stick, but then again I have had major injuries to both shoulders). My preferred places are bilateral upper chest followed by bilateral upper arm. At first I thought I had greater absorbtion of chest vs. upper thigh, though now I think it is pretty much the same everywhere. I would just try it multiple places and go with where it sticks. The lower back and thigh seem to be more in the way of my clothing and I am not letting those expensive patches fall off. Do whatever works for you. I started following Rob's suggestion and slap it once after putting it on. Maybe it is like a good luck charm...

> > I'm starting the patch as soon as I get my nerve up, I have had the scrip for a week!
> >
> > Do you find any difference in absorbtion in placing it on your upper body versus your thigh or hip (underwear area)?
>
>
> I've pretty much kept the patch on my upper back, chest and arms. I like to keep it high as I like to take long hot baths at night and they say you're suppost to avoid long periods of heat exposure so by keeping it high it doesn't soak in the hot water (for long periods).
>
> On a couple of occations I placed it on my stomach, but never my legs. There are so many options to place it I really don't pay much attention to it and can't say that I've noticed much difference. The chart seems to suggest that it's fine either upper or lower body (outer thighs), but I suspect it doesn't make much difference. I just slap it on where ever I feel like it.
>
> Since I've had such a positive response I will say I like the idea of having on my upper body as I want as much of the drug to get to my brain as possible, but that's just my little mental thing and probably doesn't matter at all. Once I put it on I give it a few good slaps to make sure it sticks well as I want the selegiline to really soak in.
>
> I wish you the best of luck with it and I hope this info helps. Rob

 

Re: Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better strugglingsteve

Posted by Donna Louise on May 3, 2006, at 8:03:27

In reply to Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better, posted by strugglingsteve on May 2, 2006, at 14:53:55

> It is 3 weeks today on the patch. Three days ago the serious suicidal depression lifted. I'd say I am mildly to moderately depressed and the agitation is a little better too. I still feel very frustrated and unmotivated but compared to last week, its better. I hope that this is the start of an upward trend. My friend said that its a slow progression upward, anyone out there thats had a response to an AD, is that true???


Dear Steve, that has been absolutely true in my experience. I have had what feels like more immediate relief but that is probably side effects and not the real therapeutic change. It sounds to me like you are progressing just like it is supposed to happen. That is one of the things we all complain about, it seems to take too long, we are so tired of feeling bad. But sounds to me like you have rounded a corner and it will continue to slowly improve until you will be so happy you just can't stand it! :-))) It is possible to be that happy, and so unfamiliar feeling.

Donna

 

Re: Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better

Posted by ttee on May 3, 2006, at 23:12:55

In reply to Re: Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better strugglingsteve, posted by Donna Louise on May 3, 2006, at 8:03:27

If anyone wants to see a short video on EMSAM, click on this link. Brought to you by your friends at the FDA.

http://www.accessdata.fda.gov/psn/transcript.cfm?show=51#1

 

Starting Emsam tomorrow

Posted by pederspd on May 4, 2006, at 0:03:49

In reply to Re: Emsam at 3 weeks: a little better, posted by ttee on May 3, 2006, at 23:12:55

I am finally starting Emsam tomorrow. These past two weeks of waiting have been torture. I am my psych doc's first patient on it and she is sooooo nervous. I made the mistake of saying how I had had tofu the night before my appt and she's made me wait to start! I tried to tell her that the diet restrictions don't matter on the lowest dose but she didn't care. Oh, well.

When I was on the patch during the study I saw improvement within the first week, so this time next week I expect to feel better.

Hope everyone else is doing well. Pat

 

EMSAM - 28th day

Posted by RobertDavid on May 4, 2006, at 18:47:15

In reply to Starting Emsam tomorrow, posted by pederspd on May 4, 2006, at 0:03:49

Before EMSAM I was just about out of hope that any medicine would ever work for me. I'm so much more productive, I feel like doing things, going places, my concentration has improved and am generally more social (which is important as my primary disorter is Social Anxiety).

What I wonder now is if I'll continue to even feel better in the weeks ahead. A week ago I thought the same thing and indeed I feel better today than ever.

I know everyone is different and not all meds are going to work well for everyone including EMSAM. Perhaps I would have done as well on other MAOI's like Parnate or Nardil, but what I do know is this MAOI, EMSAM is really something special for me.

I have paid no attention to diet and have not had any issues. I do pay attention to drug interactions and threw out all the cold medicines I had to make sure I'd never have brain fade and accidentally take it.

I guess the bottom line is there is hope for everyone. Even if you've failed on EMSAM there's something out there that will help you and new meds will continue to come out as there's just to much money in it for the drug companies. If you're having trouble don't give up hope.

Best of luck to everyone EMSAMer or not. Rob

 

Re: EMSAM - First Day

Posted by lymom3 on May 4, 2006, at 20:32:43

In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36

Day one for me...just came back from a walk. Now it was only 1/2 hour and only 2 miles, but that's more than I've done for months...here's hoping that it continues tomorrow.

 

Re: EMSAM - 28th day

Posted by egas on May 4, 2006, at 22:43:33

In reply to EMSAM - 28th day, posted by RobertDavid on May 4, 2006, at 18:47:15

I am so glad for you...I have had to try and taper down the patch to come off by cutting it in half. When my doctor told me to take it off for a couple days all the side effects got worse. I had the worse case of panic and anxiety and insomnia on it, and coming off is from what I hear like major addiction withdrawal...chills, fever, nausea, worse panic and anxiety...Next week will be 4 weeks since I started...this has been the worst month of my life, and no sleep for most of the nights, almost collapsed from exhaustion..sorry but I must post this possibility and wish all of you the best. This is closest I have ever come to death from depression.....this patch
is not for me..I have NEVER had panic or
anxiety in my entire life until I put the patch on.
I could never stay on the other MAOI'S because of my blood pressure going too low,
but they too, were awful...I am through with all these drugs, and am going to a Chinese herbalist..I am 55 and have never had a life
without depression, and probably never will.
The best to all on EMSAM,,,,hopefully without
these horrible side effects. I have just lost
another month of my horrible existence. I give up, I cannot get out of bed or my home or even
pay my bills...I always functioned before I put
on this dam patch.

> Before EMSAM I was just about out of hope that any medicine would ever work for me. I'm so much more productive, I feel like doing things, going places, my concentration has improved and am generally more social (which is important as my primary disorter is Social Anxiety).
>
> What I wonder now is if I'll continue to even feel better in the weeks ahead. A week ago I thought the same thing and indeed I feel better today than ever.
>
> I know everyone is different and not all meds are going to work well for everyone including EMSAM. Perhaps I would have done as well on other MAOI's like Parnate or Nardil, but what I do know is this MAOI, EMSAM is really something special for me.
>
> I have paid no attention to diet and have not had any issues. I do pay attention to drug interactions and threw out all the cold medicines I had to make sure I'd never have brain fade and accidentally take it.
>
> I guess the bottom line is there is hope for everyone. Even if you've failed on EMSAM there's something out there that will help you and new meds will continue to come out as there's just to much money in it for the drug companies. If you're having trouble don't give up hope.
>
> Best of luck to everyone EMSAMer or not. Rob

 

Re: EMSAM - First Day

Posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:23:40

In reply to EMSAM - First Day, posted by RobertDavid on April 8, 2006, at 11:15:36

Got in a walk yesterday. I did find this morning that removing that patch hurts. I will make sure I put them in an area where I have tougher skin and it won't sting so much. It's day 2 and I'm at work an hour early and am actually working...

 

Re: EMSAM - First Day lymom3

Posted by Donna Louise on May 5, 2006, at 8:37:17

In reply to Re: EMSAM - First Day, posted by lymom3 on May 5, 2006, at 8:23:40

> Got in a walk yesterday. I did find this morning that removing that patch hurts. I will make sure I put them in an area where I have tougher skin and it won't sting so much. It's day 2 and I'm at work an hour early and am actually working...


I keep hitting the wrong buttons. Ignore that nm post that I just sent...
What I was trying to ask was where are you putting the patch that it is sticking so well for you. We are having opposite problems if you want to call it a problem. An issue. That is better. Certainly is not a problem like all the others in the past!

Donna


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