Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 634845

Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist'

Posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 16:26:37

I'm curious what y'all may think of the article linked below:


http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-03-06/wiener.html


 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist' » saturn

Posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2006, at 19:15:45

In reply to the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 16:26:37

I was told that a psychiatrist and a pschophamacologist were the same. Is this right or wrong. I really don't know. Love Phillipa

 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatri

Posted by med_empowered on April 19, 2006, at 19:32:15

In reply to the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 16:26:37

I think the two terms have loss a lot of meaning...for most people, psychiatrists have stopped doing any sort of meaningful therapy. Psychopharmacologists just seem more open and honest about the arrangement.

 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist' » Phillipa

Posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 21:31:08

In reply to Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist' » saturn, posted by Phillipa on April 19, 2006, at 19:15:45

> I was told that a psychiatrist and a pschophamacologist were the same. Is this right or wrong. I really don't know. Love Phillipa


I don't really know either, Phillipa. I think med_empowered's post makes a good point toward this though.

Peace,
Mike

 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist'

Posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 19, 2006, at 22:19:16

In reply to the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 16:26:37

Okay, I must admit that I am getting way too angry to finish reading the article. My main issue is this: he keeps refering to lesser trained non-physicians providing psychotherapy. While it is true that other mental health professionals (a much more appropriate and less condescending term) are not compensated as well as physicians, it is NOT true that they are not as well trained. In fact, folks who are psychologists w/ PhD's or PsyD's are trained for as long as psychiatrists, BUT instead of 4 years of general medical school stuff prior to a residency, psychologists spend that length of time focusing on psychological development, mental health issues, and practicing psychotherapy. So, it could be argued that PhD's are actually MORE trained than MD's to provide non-medication-based services.

If given the choice b/t a PhD and an MD for psychotherapy, I would certainly pick the PhD. It is a shame that pdoc's have been reduced to writing rx's, but it is the reality of the situation. At this point in time, w/ a few exceptions, pdocs are not well-trained in providing therapy.

And for the record, clinical psychology PhD programs are statistically MUCH harder to get in to than med schools.

(Any guesses as to what career path I chose?)

Best,
EE

 

Thanks for advocating for psychology! » Emily Elizabeth

Posted by gardenergirl on April 20, 2006, at 0:09:02

In reply to Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 19, 2006, at 22:19:16

Well-stated. And of course close to my heart as well.

Take care (and I'll get back to your babblemail soonest, I promise!)

gg

 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist' » Emily Elizabeth

Posted by Phillipa on April 20, 2006, at 0:33:56

In reply to Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 19, 2006, at 22:19:16

I know. Love Phillipa and I agree with both of you.

 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist'

Posted by Sobriquet Style on April 20, 2006, at 6:57:30

In reply to the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 16:26:37

What does a Psychopharmacologist study vs a Pharmacist vs a Psychiatrist. Well, I know what a Pharmacist studies and a Psychiatrist - how does a Psychopharmacologist differ?

~

 

AMEN!!  » Emily Elizabeth

Posted by pseudoname on April 20, 2006, at 10:52:10

In reply to Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 19, 2006, at 22:19:16

Every aspect of Wiener's essay screams insecure, oversensitive crybaby. EE is absolutely correct. Every psychiatrist receives LESS training in psychology and psychotherapy, even at the completion of their residency, than any psychologist, and clinical psych programs are are more selective the med schools.

Furthermore — talk about paranoid! — calling yourself a ‘psychopharmacologist’ does not necessarily mean ANY of Weiner's 6 itemized implications.

Look at #2: “I do not provide psychotherapy, either because I consider [it] irrelevant and not "scientifically" proved to be effective or I consider it less important…”

Maybe the psychopharmacologist considers therapy VERY important, something that should be done by SPECIALISTS who don't dabble in things they think they can do just because they have "Me Doktah" after their name. May she thinks therapy should be done by people who don't confuse themselves by embracing the medical model. Also, it's not reassurring that a physician would put scare quotes around the word "scientific".

I have NEVER met a psychiatrist (and this is in 20+ years of interaction with many) who had a more than a minimal grasp of psychological issues. Consider this conversation with my current pdoc, who provides therapy to her other patients.

At our SECOND APPOINTMENT EVER, she said she really wanted me to become a Jungian therapist. She went on & on for over ten minutes about it, how I could go to Switzerland for training, etc. I finally said, politely, “I don't think I would want to be a Jungian therapist.”

She looked hurt. I said, “You look hurt.”

In all seriousness she said, “Well, I am disappointed.” She barely knew me.

I said I didn't want to be a therapist at all. She said, “But you said you had wanted to be a psychotherapist.” I said, “No, I wanted to be a PSYCHOLOGIST.”

She was taken aback. “Is there a difference?” she said.

Me: "Well, most psychologists aren't clinical."

NLP: "Oh, they give people tests and so on?"

Me: "Some do. Some analyze statistics, some study neurons, some study animals..."

NLP: "Do they study the brain?"

Me: "Some of them, sure."

NLP: "Oh. You don't want to deal with PEOPLE!"

Me: [Reeling; long pause] "I do. I want to find things that are helpful to people."

NLP: "Do psychologists believe in the mind?"

Me: "Most do."

NLP: "Are there some who don't?"

Me: "Some, like behavior analysts, might see the mind as a metaphor."

NLP: "Everything's a metaphor."

Me: "Only metaphorically."

NLP: "Who are these who don't?"

Me: "Behavior analysts?" [She looks blank.] "You know, Skinnerians."

NLP: "Oh, him. He was crazy."

Me: "Could be."

NLP: "What about the soul? Jungian therapy deals with the soul. That's what Jungian personality types are used for. Do psychologists know about those?"

Me: "Well, another way of looking at that would be that people who use Jungian 'types' are being very selective in the details of a person that they look at and they may be blinding themselves to other possibilities."

NLP: [utterly stunned; she recovers] "Jungian therapy requires a leap of faith. You're logical. Others are intuitive."

Me: "I think I'm enormously intuitive. You don't have to give up one to experience the other."

She has no response to that.

I'm keeping her because she gives me the meds I ask for (and she's very nice), but wow.

Psychiatrists are deluded if they think they magically know enough about psychology to practice it. I'd love to give Weiner a test!!

 

Re: AMEN!!

Posted by gibber on April 20, 2006, at 20:22:01

In reply to AMEN!!  » Emily Elizabeth, posted by pseudoname on April 20, 2006, at 10:52:10

All very interesting. I once saw a psychotherapist who wore a badge that said 'Psychiatry'. However she knew nothing about medications, a great therapist though. So I guess it is my understanding that under psychiatry falls pyschopharmacologist, psychotherapists, and those who practice both or a psychiatrist. If I have just defined that right then I see a psychiatrist who only gives me talk therapy because I already had a psychopharmocologist to provide meds. I must say I rather like this arrangement because I think having a specialty allows one to focus on a specific problem, however neither doctor dismisses the value of the other. In fact they talk to either other on occasion. Since SSRIs are so easy to prescribe now I guess it makes sense for some doctors to practice psychotherapy and give meds. However I feel much more comfortable having a psychopharm who is more familar with the multitude of options when faced with treatment resistance. In addition to all this I have a cognitive behavioral therapist. Any educated person cannot rule out the value of any one of these fields in treating this disease.

 

Re: AMEN!!

Posted by joslynn on April 21, 2006, at 11:00:33

In reply to Re: AMEN!!, posted by gibber on April 20, 2006, at 20:22:01

I believe a psychiatrist is an MD, and can "do" psychotherapy, but a psychoteraphist cannot prescribe meds because they do not have the MD. In my state anyway, I think all psychiatrists can do psychotherapy as part of their practice if they so choose, but psychotherapists who have a PhD, as opposed to an MD, cannot prescribe meds ever.

On a related note, someone told me recently that a psychologist friend of hers told her that if you do want to go to a psychiatrst for both meds and psychotherapy, don't go to anyone under 40, because it was after that time that the therapy training for psychiatrists dropped down to even less than it was before.

I now go to a psychiatrist for meds about once every 6 wks and an MSW for therapy.

It seems that some otherwise excellent psychiatrists really do not seem to understand basic therapy issues about transference, projection and the perils of self-disclosure.

 

I believe the difference is....

Posted by bipolarspectrum on April 21, 2006, at 16:07:48

In reply to Re: AMEN!!, posted by joslynn on April 21, 2006, at 11:00:33

A psychiatrist has completed his MD degree plus an addition period (4 years in Canada) of 'residency.... whereas a psychopharmacologist has complete what a psychiatrist has 'plus' another 2 years (in Canada) learning about and research specifically psychopharmaceuticals... I could be wrong, but I believe this is the same as America.... most psychopharms do research regarding the drugs and teach at unis.... psychiatrists are generally the medical GP of mental illness.... I've been lucky enough to see both.. A good example of a big name American psychopharmacologist is stephen stahl coming out of UCLA...
bps

 

Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist'

Posted by alohashirt on April 22, 2006, at 20:00:57

In reply to the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by saturn on April 19, 2006, at 16:26:37

In the US psychopharmacologist is a word that others use to describe some psychiatrists when they refer a patient for
expert prescribing. My pdoc doesn't like the word.


> I'm curious what y'all may think of the article linked below:
>
>
> http://www.psych.org/pnews/98-03-06/wiener.html
>
>
>

 

Preach On (nm) » Emily Elizabeth

Posted by verne on April 24, 2006, at 19:43:43

In reply to Re: the term 'psychopharmacologist' vs 'psychiatrist', posted by Emily Elizabeth on April 19, 2006, at 22:19:16


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