Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 594786

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Re: When are benzos justified? » ed_uk

Posted by zero on January 8, 2006, at 11:55:29

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? » reefer, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2006, at 9:49:34

What countries Ed?


> Benzos are available without a prescription in some European countries. You'll have to move!
>


 

Re: When are benzos justified?

Posted by reefer on January 8, 2006, at 15:53:25

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? » reefer, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2006, at 9:49:34

> Hi Reefer
>
> Benzos are available without a prescription in some European countries. You'll have to move!
>
> Ed

Yeah i guess, but moving to get it would be strong drug seeking behaviour. So in the end that would make *them* right! Wouldn't it!?

 

Re: When are benzos justified?

Posted by 4WD on January 8, 2006, at 21:55:59

In reply to When are benzos justified?, posted by detroitpistons on January 3, 2006, at 15:21:05

Benzos are justified for me for the simple reason that they are keeping me out of a psych ward. When I was not taking Klonopin, I was crawling in the floor, crying and screaming at God to please make the fear stop. Now I just am scared.

Marsha

 

Re: When are benzos justified?

Posted by sdb on January 9, 2006, at 8:32:40

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified?, posted by 4WD on January 8, 2006, at 21:55:59

justified remembers me to justice and thus guiltiness. I would ask: "When does a sufferer really has remarkable relief with benzos?"

 

Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD

Posted by valene on January 9, 2006, at 10:20:11

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified?, posted by 4WD on January 8, 2006, at 21:55:59

Hi Marsha,
I totally empathize with your statement below. May I ask if you had this severe fear and anxiety *before* you ever took Klonopin, or did you try to cut back on it and thus had the awful fear? I am trying myself to get off the xanax but it is so very difficult and I am riddled with fear and obsessive, dark thoughts and feelings. I did not feel this way before I ever went on the benzos. Not nearly as bad.

Valene

> Benzos are justified for me for the simple reason that they are keeping me out of a psych ward. When I was not taking Klonopin, I was crawling in the floor, crying and screaming at God to please make the fear stop. Now I just am scared.
>
> Marsha

 

Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD

Posted by reefer on January 9, 2006, at 18:51:32

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD, posted by valene on January 9, 2006, at 10:20:11

> Hi Marsha,
> I totally empathize with your statement below. May I ask if you had this severe fear and anxiety *before* you ever took Klonopin, or did you try to cut back on it and thus had the awful fear? I am trying myself to get off the xanax but it is so very difficult and I am riddled with fear and obsessive, dark thoughts and feelings. I did not feel this way before I ever went on the benzos. Not nearly as bad.
>
> Valene
>

Xanax is a good benzo to be on. It is a horrible benzo to taper off of(not for everyone but for a lot of people). I suggest you switch to a benzo with a longer halflife. Preferebly diazepam, but clonazepam can also be ok.

 

Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD » valene

Posted by 4WD on January 9, 2006, at 21:49:01

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD, posted by valene on January 9, 2006, at 10:20:11

Hi Valene,

I had the anxiety before I started the Klonopin. That's why I started it. It started when I went off Effexor. First switched to Paxil and had to go on Xanax for a couple of weeks. Gave up on Paxil, and quit the Xanax. Back to Effexor and was okay again. Tried again with Paxil and the same thing happened. Tried Cymbalta and the same thing happened. I couldn't go back to Effexor because it wasn't working at all for depression and I had to have an AD that would work.

Anyway, the anxiety/terror started BEFORE the benzos. So it's not withdrawal. I've been through benzo withdrawal before (15 years ago with Ativan) and this is different. I hadn't taken a benzo since 1986 when this panic started out of the blue.

Marsha


> I totally empathize with your statement below. May I ask if you had this severe fear and anxiety *before* you ever took Klonopin, or did you try to cut back on it and thus had the awful fear? I am trying myself to get off the xanax but it is so very difficult and I am riddled with fear and obsessive, dark thoughts and feelings. I did not feel this way before I ever went on the benzos. Not nearly as bad.
>
> Valene
>
> > Benzos are justified for me for the simple reason that they are keeping me out of a psych ward. When I was not taking Klonopin, I was crawling in the floor, crying and screaming at God to please make the fear stop. Now I just am scared.
> >
> > Marsha
>
>

 

Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD » valene

Posted by Declan on January 10, 2006, at 1:10:35

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD, posted by valene on January 9, 2006, at 10:20:11

Yeah Valene, that's how I feel. The problems I had that led me to take benzos are as nothing compared to the problem of giving them up. It certainly puts those problems in perspective, I guess. That's just how it's been for me. I wish I'd never gone to the psych in the first place, and found a better place to look for a soul doctor.
Declan

 

Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD » 4WD

Posted by Declan on January 10, 2006, at 1:13:48

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD » valene, posted by 4WD on January 9, 2006, at 21:49:01

Marsha, you've got something different, haven't you, if I remember correctly, waking in fear and stuff. I certainly don't want to be prescriptive.
Declan

 

Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD » Declan

Posted by 4WD on January 10, 2006, at 22:25:56

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? - 4WD » 4WD, posted by Declan on January 10, 2006, at 1:13:48

> Marsha, you've got something different, haven't you, if I remember correctly, waking in fear and stuff. I certainly don't want to be prescriptive.
> Declan

Yeah, I wake up scared with fear and dread and guilt in the pit of my stomach. And I'm jittery and nervous like I have too much adrenaline in my bloodstream. (Although I'm not nearly as bad now as I was a year ago).

I hadn't taken a benzo in almost 20 years before this happened. I fought tooth and nail against the idea of Klonopin or any other benzo because I've been there before (using Ativan as a sleep aid for 10 years and stopping it cold turkey). But when I reached the point of suicide from the fear, I gave up and took the effing Klonopin.

At one point I went off it for about a month because I got to thinking maybe my recurring anxiety was because I had gotten used to the K. AFter a month off it, my anxiety was just getting worse. AGain, almost ended up in the hospital to keep myself safe - the fear was that intense.

So now I take my Klonopin. I'm supposed to be taking .5mg three times a day but I only take it twice a day. I'm still terrified of it and am living for the day when the anxiety abates to the point that I can stop it.

I feel guilty for taking a benzo because I abused Ativan in the past. But I don't abuse the Klonopin at all. My pdoc is always trying to get me to up the dosage and I just have a phobia about it. I just can't bring myself to take more than 1mg a day and I'm constantly trying to figure out how to get by with less. (And reducing my dosage without telling him).

Benzos are scary. I hate them. But Klonopin definitely saved my life.

Marsha

 

Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE

Posted by detroitpistons on January 11, 2006, at 20:57:04

In reply to When are benzos justified?, posted by detroitpistons on January 3, 2006, at 15:21:05

Well, the last think I expected was to come home from my pdoc appointment with a sample box of Lamictal in hand...

I went in and basically told him that I wasn't deeply depressed anymore, that the Effexor had basically taken care of that. But then I told him that I've still been feeling anxious, that the GAD was still present. I went into some detail, telling him that I just felt agitated and nervous. I described it as "directionless energy." I also mentioned that I'd been experiencing racing thoughts and that I've had a really hard time focusing and concentrating, and at times have felt somewhat hyperactive (lately I've been wondering if maybe I've got some mild form of ADD -- just searching for answers). If anything, I was expecting him to suggest Klonopin or maybe even Strattera.

Instead, he said that it sounded like I was in a kind of hypomanic state. I was pretty surprised by this. My uneducated impression of hypomania is that you feel euphoric and grandiose. Euphoria and grandiosity are far, far from what I've been feeling lately.

So I just took my first 25 mg dose of Lamictal, and I'm hoping for the best, but it's just kind of a shock to me. I hope the doc is right.

I don't know anything about Lamictal. Anyone care to comment on this? Does it seem right that I'm taking this? How long does it take Lamictal to work? The first 2 weeks are 25 mg, then 50 mg for the next 2 weeks, and then 100 mg the 5th week. I go back to see the doc in 2 weeks.

Marc

> I've been thinking about starting Klonopin, but I just wanted some feedback from other benzo users. I take small amounts of Xanax and I can feel better by taking as little as .25mg. However, it can make me depressed and lethargic.
>
> I'm on Effexor XR 225 mg, and it has not totally relieved me of anxiety, although it picked me up out of a depressive episode. I'm familiar with the pro-benzo vs anti-benzo debate. I guess what I'm trying to get at is this: How bad does anxiety have to be in order to justify taking a benzo? I realize this is a very difficult question to answer, but I just wanted to hear some other people's thoughts.
>
> I can generally function without a benzo (or even an AD for that matter)...I can leave the house, go to work, be in social settings with people I don't know (although rarely comfortably). In short, I can get along with life, but I never feel quite right. I feel like everything is forced. I feel like I'm operating at 75%. I probably wouldn't regard my anxiety as severe (not agoraphobic, for example), but I do think it interferes with my life and prevents me from being all I can be.
>
> Where is the line? When is taking a benzo justified? I've always been scared to overmedicate myself. In fact, it took me a good amount of pain and suffering before I broke down and tried an AD. I've never liked the idea of taking 1 psych drug, much less 2 or 3. Sometimes I feel like I'm "cheating," like the only people who should really be on meds are the ones who can't get out of bed in the morning, can't leave the house, can't go to work, etc.
>
> Can anyone relate to this sort of "psych med reckoning" I'm going through?
>
> And back to the original point, any thoughts from benzo/Klonopin users? The first and only psych med I took that worked was Effexor, and it seemed like a godsend at the time (for both anxiety and depression). Now I tried it again, and it just doesn't seem to be working as well on the anxiety. I think my condition(s) may have worsened over the past couple of years, and quite frankly, it feels like the meds may have contributed to that (e.g. caused a permanent change in brain chemistry--which I know sounds very paranoid).
>
> Any thoughts?

 

Lamictal » detroitpistons

Posted by James K on January 11, 2006, at 22:06:18

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE, posted by detroitpistons on January 11, 2006, at 20:57:04

In retrospect, I'm suprised lamictal didn't spring to my mind right away. I'm taking it basicaly for the same kind of reasons you describe.

Some of the others around here can give you some science on it, but I have some personal experience.

It is some kind of atypical anticonvulsant that is used very extensively as a mood stabilizer. Kind of the drug of choice at the moment. You don't have to have the classic mania symptoms to need a mood stabilizer. I've come to believe the result is more important than the diagnosis.

You do have to start very slowly (and i think stop slowly too) I don't remember many side effects, but so many things go on at once I could have missed them.

My new pdoc said 200 was the standard therapuetic dose after she found out I had gone down to 50 on my own. I'm currently on 100 along with 300 welbutrin and my depression and agitation are stabilizing.

I remember you are kind of "not wanting to be on meds. feeling" so I think this is a good choice because it works without any noticable effects. Only danger is very rare but serious rash.

The subject has been discussed in past on board, but I'm kind of new so if anybody else can come in with knowledge, I'd also welcome it.

Good luck,
James K

 

Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE » detroitpistons

Posted by Glydin on January 12, 2006, at 7:55:16

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE, posted by detroitpistons on January 11, 2006, at 20:57:04

There was a time that route of treatment would have puzzled me too, but there is a definite trend toward changing diagnoses – thus changing of the treatment plan. The “anxiously depressed” or “depression with anxiety” is being thought to be somewhere on the bipolar continuum or at least, that seems to me to be how it's going.

Like you, I always thought of BP as a disorder of extremes – thus the name. There is much talk and action, in the field, of the symptoms being looked at differently with grading by severity.

At best, we can hope this tend is correct and people will get better treatment and (maybe) more apporiate treatment for their struggles. There is a lot crossover in head meds.

I can’t give you any insight into Lamictal but I can send you really good wishes that this works out well for you.

Thanks for the update and I hope you will keep us posted. I would be interested to know how it goes for you.

 

Re: Lamictal

Posted by 4WD on January 12, 2006, at 20:13:56

In reply to Lamictal » detroitpistons, posted by James K on January 11, 2006, at 22:06:18

Hi all,

Lamictal is supposed to be more or less without side effects but I experienced some. I got sharp shooting pains in different parts of my body that would come and go for maybe a couple of hours then disappear then reappear elsewhere in a day or two. No big deal.

But they finally settled into a kind of neuralgia in my lower front teeth. Still tolerable. But I also got a chronic low grade headache. And it made the SSRI-induced muscle tightness in my back and neck much much worse.

OTOH, it did help with the hyper, jittery, wired feeling. I was able to reduce my Klonopin very considerably while on it. I never even reached a therapeutic dose, just up to 50mg.

Marsha

 

Re: Lamictal » 4WD

Posted by cache-monkey on January 16, 2006, at 13:14:02

In reply to Re: Lamictal, posted by 4WD on January 12, 2006, at 20:13:56

Too bad to hear about the pain. Have you considered something like Neurontin? This could help neuropathic pain and *may* provide additional mood support...

As far as only getting up to 50 mg, randomized trials (e.g. http://tinyurl.com/c2oy4) indicate that there is significant response among some people benefit from doses that low.

Good luck,
cache-monkey

> Hi all,
>
> Lamictal is supposed to be more or less without side effects but I experienced some. I got sharp shooting pains in different parts of my body that would come and go for maybe a couple of hours then disappear then reappear elsewhere in a day or two. No big deal.
>
> But they finally settled into a kind of neuralgia in my lower front teeth. Still tolerable. But I also got a chronic low grade headache. And it made the SSRI-induced muscle tightness in my back and neck much much worse.
>
> OTOH, it did help with the hyper, jittery, wired feeling. I was able to reduce my Klonopin very considerably while on it. I never even reached a therapeutic dose, just up to 50mg.
>
> Marsha

 

Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE II

Posted by detroitpistons on February 1, 2006, at 10:26:55

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE, posted by detroitpistons on January 11, 2006, at 20:57:04

I have another update...On my next doctor visit, he diagnosed me as bipolar II. We had a fairly long discussion about my past and my current symptoms, and he said I may be rapid cycling. To me, the best way to describe it would be a mixed state with rapid cycling, but that could be redundant, depending on symantics.

I'm up to 50 mg of Lamictal now, and he's having me go down on the Effexor. Right now, I'm down from 225 mg to 187.5, and tomorrow I will go down to 150.

I have to admit, I am still trying to sort out this diagnosis, because this is all new to me...I was inclined to think that this current mixed state, which is completely new to me, is just caused by the Effexor. I have been moody and irritable in the past, along with just having a sort of cyclical nature to my moods, but I can't say that I ever remember really being euphorically hypomanic. If I was, it was very short lived.

Then I read the following passage from psycheducation.org:

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:L0perCxdsMgJ:www.psycheducation.org/depression/03_treatment_app.html+mixed+episode+with+rapid+cycling+kindling+psycheducation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2

"Bipolar II seems to get worse with time in many people....As the illness gets worse, medications that seemed to have helped a person in the past don’t seem to "work" anymore. Antidepressants start to cause mixed state symptoms (can’t sleep, anxious, can’t concentrate, irritable — as well as depressed) and rapid cycling, where at first they were actually very helpful."

This is EXACTLY what happened with Effexor. Furthermore, in an example provided above this passage, Dr. Phelps introduces this "kindling effect." The man in the example had at least two episodes of depression prior to his first manic or hypomanic episode, which occured at the age of 27. I am 27. This could explain why it took so long for these bipolar mixed state symptoms that have never occurred before.

Therefore, my previous thinking that my symptoms are simply med induced could be flawed...Rather than Effexor causing bipolar symptoms, my current situation (reaction to meds) may be diagnostic of bipolar disorder. In other words, meds simply brought this underlying condition to light, rather than causing the symptoms (based on the quote above).

Any thoughs?

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II

Posted by detroitpistons on February 2, 2006, at 8:47:13

In reply to Re: When are benzos justified? -- UPDATE II, posted by detroitpistons on February 1, 2006, at 10:26:55

I just wanted to change the title in order to maybe generate some interest. Any bipolar II's out there, I'd really like to hear your feedback.


> I have another update...On my next doctor visit, he diagnosed me as bipolar II. We had a fairly long discussion about my past and my current symptoms, and he said I may be rapid cycling. To me, the best way to describe it would be a mixed state with rapid cycling, but that could be redundant, depending on symantics.
>
> I'm up to 50 mg of Lamictal now, and he's having me go down on the Effexor. Right now, I'm down from 225 mg to 187.5, and tomorrow I will go down to 150.
>
> I have to admit, I am still trying to sort out this diagnosis, because this is all new to me...I was inclined to think that this current mixed state, which is completely new to me, is just caused by the Effexor. I have been moody and irritable in the past, along with just having a sort of cyclical nature to my moods, but I can't say that I ever remember really being euphorically hypomanic. If I was, it was very short lived.
>
> Then I read the following passage from psycheducation.org:
>
> http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:L0perCxdsMgJ:www.psycheducation.org/depression/03_treatment_app.html+mixed+episode+with+rapid+cycling+kindling+psycheducation&hl=en&gl=us&ct=clnk&cd=2
>
> "Bipolar II seems to get worse with time in many people....As the illness gets worse, medications that seemed to have helped a person in the past don’t seem to "work" anymore. Antidepressants start to cause mixed state symptoms (can’t sleep, anxious, can’t concentrate, irritable — as well as depressed) and rapid cycling, where at first they were actually very helpful."
>
> This is EXACTLY what happened with Effexor. Furthermore, in an example provided above this passage, Dr. Phelps introduces this "kindling effect." The man in the example had at least two episodes of depression prior to his first manic or hypomanic episode, which occured at the age of 27. I am 27. This could explain why it took so long for these bipolar mixed state symptoms that have never occurred before.
>
> Therefore, my previous thinking that my symptoms are simply med induced could be flawed...Rather than Effexor causing bipolar symptoms, my current situation (reaction to meds) may be diagnostic of bipolar disorder. In other words, meds simply brought this underlying condition to light, rather than causing the symptoms (based on the quote above).
>
> Any thoughs?
>
>

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » detroitpistons

Posted by 4WD on February 2, 2006, at 22:04:21

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II, posted by detroitpistons on February 2, 2006, at 8:47:13


> > "Bipolar II seems to get worse with time in many people....As the illness gets worse, medications that seemed to have helped a person in the past don’t seem to "work" anymore. Antidepressants start to cause mixed state symptoms (can’t sleep, anxious, can’t concentrate, irritable — as well as depressed) and rapid cycling, where at first they were actually very helpful."


This is exactly how I feel. What used to help me now makes me more anxious. Well, SSRIs always made me a little jittery but never like now.

> > This is EXACTLY what happened with Effexor. Furthermore, in an example provided above this passage, Dr. Phelps introduces this "kindling effect." The man in the example had at least two episodes of depression prior to his first manic or hypomanic episode, which occured at the age of 27. I am 27. This could explain why it took so long for these bipolar mixed state symptoms that have never occurred before.
> >
> > Therefore, my previous thinking that my symptoms are simply med induced could be flawed...Rather than Effexor causing bipolar symptoms, my current situation (reaction to meds) may be diagnostic of bipolar disorder. In other words, meds simply brought this underlying condition to light, rather than causing the symptoms (based on the quote above).
> >
> > Any thoughs?

I don't know. This is exactly what happened to me with Paxil, Cymbalta and Celexa. But it happened for the first time when I was 48. I wouldn't think that bipolar could suddenly emerge at that age. I never had mood cycles other than being more anxious in the morning.

It's all a big guess, isn't it?

Marsha
> >
> >
>
>

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » 4WD

Posted by detroitpistons on February 3, 2006, at 9:40:50

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » detroitpistons, posted by 4WD on February 2, 2006, at 22:04:21

I don't know. This is exactly what happened to me with Paxil, Cymbalta and Celexa. But it happened for the first time when I was 48. I wouldn't think that bipolar could suddenly emerge at that age. I never had mood cycles other than being more anxious in the morning.
>
> It's all a big guess, isn't it?
>
> Marsha


Yeah, it sure is all a big guess. But as long as this new strategy of mood stabilizers works though, I don't really care what the label on the problem is.

I think that there is some evidence that bipolar disorders can develop or manifest later in life. I just typed "bipolar late onset" and some other variations into google, and just in a couple of minutes I've seen several indications of late onset bipolar. I found an academic article about a research study comparing early onset (prior to 20, 25, or 30 years old) vs late onset (after 20, 25, or 30 years old) bipolar disorder. By virtue of the fact that the study considers onset after the age of 30, I'd say that it's not that uncommon.

So maybe it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that you may have developed it late. Do you ever feel extremely irritable or angry? Do you ever feel like blowing up on someone?

You have insomnia, right? Does it feel like you can only get a few hours of sleep and still be rested? Personally, I have all of these symptoms. Whether or not it is solely related to taking Effexor is another matter.

Take care,

Marc

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » detroitpistons

Posted by 4WD on February 3, 2006, at 20:10:48

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » 4WD, posted by detroitpistons on February 3, 2006, at 9:40:50

> I don't know. This is exactly what happened to me with Paxil, Cymbalta and Celexa. But it happened for the first time when I was 48. I wouldn't think that bipolar could suddenly emerge at that age. I never had mood cycles other than being more anxious in the morning.
> >
> > It's all a big guess, isn't it?
> >
> > Marsha
>
>
> Yeah, it sure is all a big guess. But as long as this new strategy of mood stabilizers works though, I don't really care what the label on the problem is.
>
> I think that there is some evidence that bipolar disorders can develop or manifest later in life. I just typed "bipolar late onset" and some other variations into google, and just in a couple of minutes I've seen several indications of late onset bipolar. I found an academic article about a research study comparing early onset (prior to 20, 25, or 30 years old) vs late onset (after 20, 25, or 30 years old) bipolar disorder. By virtue of the fact that the study considers onset after the age of 30, I'd say that it's not that uncommon.
>
> So maybe it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that you may have developed it late. Do you ever feel extremely irritable or angry? Do you ever feel like blowing up on someone?
>
> You have insomnia, right? Does it feel like you can only get a few hours of sleep and still be rested? Personally, I have all of these symptoms. Whether or not it is solely related to taking Effexor is another matter.
>
> Take care,
>
> Marc


Hi,

No, I never feel irritated or angry. Just so full of nervous energy I want to jump out of my skin or explode with jitteryness. I don't have any trouble falling asleep but I wake up too early. When that happens I want to go back to sleep because I don't feel rested but I can't go back to sleep because I'm already feeling too wired and jittery and scary. That's what wakes me up, I think.

The Depakote really seems to be helping. I've been having some headaches on it so night before last I only took 250mg and I could tell a definite difference during the next day.

One thing is sure. When I raise the dose of any SSRI or SNRI about a very minimal level (37.5 for Effexor, 10mg for Celexa, etc.) I get way more hyper and scared and agitated and the waking up too early gets much worse.

I'm not sure what that all means, but like you, I don't really care about the diagnosis, as long as they figure out the meds that will treat it properly.

Have other ADs had the same effect on you as the Effexor? What dose do you take?

Hang in there with the Lamictal.

Marsha

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II

Posted by detroitpistons on February 4, 2006, at 11:15:15

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » detroitpistons, posted by 4WD on February 3, 2006, at 20:10:48

> > I don't know. This is exactly what happened to me with Paxil, Cymbalta and Celexa. But it happened for the first time when I was 48. I wouldn't think that bipolar could suddenly emerge at that age. I never had mood cycles other than being more anxious in the morning.
> > >
> > > It's all a big guess, isn't it?
> > >
> > > Marsha
> >
> >
> > Yeah, it sure is all a big guess. But as long as this new strategy of mood stabilizers works though, I don't really care what the label on the problem is.
> >
> > I think that there is some evidence that bipolar disorders can develop or manifest later in life. I just typed "bipolar late onset" and some other variations into google, and just in a couple of minutes I've seen several indications of late onset bipolar. I found an academic article about a research study comparing early onset (prior to 20, 25, or 30 years old) vs late onset (after 20, 25, or 30 years old) bipolar disorder. By virtue of the fact that the study considers onset after the age of 30, I'd say that it's not that uncommon.
> >
> > So maybe it's not that far out of the realm of possibility that you may have developed it late. Do you ever feel extremely irritable or angry? Do you ever feel like blowing up on someone?
> >
> > You have insomnia, right? Does it feel like you can only get a few hours of sleep and still be rested? Personally, I have all of these symptoms. Whether or not it is solely related to taking Effexor is another matter.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Marc
>
>
> Hi,
>
> No, I never feel irritated or angry. Just so full of nervous energy I want to jump out of my skin or explode with jitteryness. I don't have any trouble falling asleep but I wake up too early. When that happens I want to go back to sleep because I don't feel rested but I can't go back to sleep because I'm already feeling too wired and jittery and scary. That's what wakes me up, I think.
>
> The Depakote really seems to be helping. I've been having some headaches on it so night before last I only took 250mg and I could tell a definite difference during the next day.
>
> One thing is sure. When I raise the dose of any SSRI or SNRI about a very minimal level (37.5 for Effexor, 10mg for Celexa, etc.) I get way more hyper and scared and agitated and the waking up too early gets much worse.
>
> I'm not sure what that all means, but like you, I don't really care about the diagnosis, as long as they figure out the meds that will treat it properly.
>
> Have other ADs had the same effect on you as the Effexor? What dose do you take?
>
> Hang in there with the Lamictal.
>
> Marsha


Marsha,

Do you think that you are just med sensitive and that the meds are causing akathisia?

I don't ever recall feeling this way on the SSRI's. Maybe on Paxil I was a bit irritable, but I can't say that I've ever felt these mix of symptoms before. The first time on Effexor, I defintely didn't feel this way (I felt euphoric if anything). At that time, I was on 225mg. This time around I was also on 225, but my doctor has had me go down to 150. All of the symptoms that I have are described as being possible complications on the Effexor website! Also, Effexor has raised my blood pressure.

I'm just really confused. I still doubt the diagnosis of bipolar II.

I can't sleep, period (even if I've had drinks). I have to take trazadone if I want to get any sort of sleep, and even then it doesn't work all of the time. But I usually feel adequately rested even if I only sleep 5 hours a night (in the past I would need at least 7 hours to feel functional).

Take care,

Marc

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » detroitpistons

Posted by 4WD on February 4, 2006, at 22:02:14

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II, posted by detroitpistons on February 4, 2006, at 11:15:15

Marc,

I really do think it is just med senstitivity. I have been tapering Effexor the last couple of days preparatory to going on imimpramine instead and already I feel a lot calmer. Even tired in a bone deep way, like I've been supercharged for months, and now my body really needs to rest up and compensate for all the hyper-ness brought on by the SSRIs and SNRIs.

I wonder if your inability to sleep is from the Effexor. When I tried going from 37.5 to 75mg, I couldn't sleep either. And I ground my teeth all night. I don't know that the Lamictal would help this. Are you going to lower the Effexor dose more?

Marsha

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II

Posted by Greif on February 5, 2006, at 13:34:29

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » detroitpistons, posted by 4WD on February 4, 2006, at 22:02:14

Hang in there. I have BP3 somewhere in the spectrum anyway. Was classified for year as BP2. Any SSRI in a normal dose will exasperate mania symptoms. I have tried all the mood stabalizers. Lamicatal works well for Depression but I had vivid violent nightmares. Depakote works but side effects too extreme..So after many years I now take 5 mg Lexzapro in the am with .mg Klon then another .5 mg Klon at 3PM and 1 MG before bed. I sleep, never get depressed and the pest thing is I am clamer than I have ever been. Clonzapam does not require the dose increases that Xanax or Ativan do (at least for me). I used to treat the evening anxiety with 4 glasses of wine which is not recommended.

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » Greif

Posted by 4WD on February 5, 2006, at 18:45:44

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II, posted by Greif on February 5, 2006, at 13:34:29

Hi,

Depakote helps me too with not much in the say of side effects but I'm taking only 500mg. I've lowered it the last couple of days to 250 because I've got an itchy rash.

I'm switching from Effexor to imipramine as of tonight. The Effexor makes me too anxious (and it actually used to *help* with anxiety. I'm hoping that with the imipramine, I won't have to take the Depakote or my Klonopin anymore. Right now I'm only taking .5 mg in the morning. I could really use another .5 in the afternoon but I've gone this far so I guess I can live with a litle anxiety in the hopes of reducing withdrawal symptoms later.

I's weird. By evening, my anxiety is generally gone. Evening though the klonopin has worn off by then. Also, I'm glad the Lex helps you. It made me more anxious. I really had to increase the Klonopin dose when I tried to take Lexapro!

Marsha

 

Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II

Posted by Greif on February 6, 2006, at 21:40:10

In reply to Re: UPDATE II -- Diagnosed bipolar II » Greif, posted by 4WD on February 5, 2006, at 18:45:44

Hello Marsha,
I swithced from Lithium to depaokote 11 years ago. Do not rememeber the dose. I quit all alchohol at that time and Doc tried all mood stabalizers and atypicals. I have not had full mania for a long time. Alchohol and stresfull job are gone. I tried paxil when it first came out and was fired from major investment bank for erratic behavior. No way I could take SSRIs without Klon. I could not handle any amout of Effexor. The new version of Nuerontin (cant think of the name) made me a zombie a few months ago. So life is good. Do not feel meds when I take them and have none of the horrible symptoms of BP that plagued me for years. I am a phone calll away from doctor and my wife is a great barometer. Good luck to you. Benzos have their downside, but name a med that doesnt. With Klon 2 MG is right dose. Anything less might as well be used at needed. I dont crave increases like with other benzos. I took a Xanax the other night by mistake and hated it. (used to love it).


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