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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:02:02
This is the new standard......
SSRI- weak drugs....that hardly work
CBT- a therapy which has been proven to be able to worsen OCD, Depression and anxiety.I doubt anyone with a significant chemical imbalance can be helped by this (luvox may be an exception)
Nice one guys....once again, get real!
Ace
Posted by rjlockhart on November 30, 2005, at 22:14:21
In reply to SSRI + CBT= Joke therapy!, posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:02:02
I thought that was the standard of the 90's and today still.
But reports of SSRI's having bad outcomes and side effects are making them coming to an end. At least i hope.
SSRI's well i take prozac, i dont really notice much at all, a little stimulation, wellbutrin was more noticable since it is a dopamine uptake inhibitor.
Need to come up with some SSRI joke book, what do you call a pill that takes weeks to run, and has side effects first..... ROFL
Thats my put.
Matt
Posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2005, at 22:18:56
In reply to SSRI + CBT= Joke therapy!, posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:02:02
Hi ace,
CBT may have been proven to worsen the symptoms of the diagnoses you mention (I haven't seen studies that say this.)But there are also numerous studies which show it is efficacious.
But it's not for everyone. If you tried it and found it made you worse, I'm sorry. It may not be a good fit for you, or the T may not have been a good fit.
At any rate, you are still the Nardil Champ!
gg
Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2005, at 22:27:02
In reply to SSRI + CBT= Joke therapy!, posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:02:02
I know that I have my reserves about SSRI's, but they do help some people.
I'll be honest with you ace. With the little sucess that I had with meds, I acutally fared better on SSRI's that MAOI's. Parnate put me on the virge of paranoid psychosis.I know a few other who did not do well on MAOI's, for similar reasons as mine.
Some researchers think that the currently available SSRI's work via allopregnalone.Allopregnalone (sp.) is a potent gabaergic neurosteroid, and all of the SSRIs have been shown to increase its action some 20 fold.
It interacts with progesterone and some other hormones, and may be more responsable for an SSRI effect than serotonin uptake inhibiton.
So, even thought we don't know how SSRI's work for some people, I think it is necessary to keep an open mind because of discoveries like this one.If somebody found a med that worked, I'd hate to convince them out of taking something that might benefit them.
(I know, I know, look who's talking)
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 30, 2005, at 22:30:46
In reply to Regarding CBT » ace, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2005, at 22:18:56
CBT can be very helpfull for many people. I know it didn't help you, but it helped me.
I didn't think it at the time, but now I find myself referring back to many of the techniques I used.
It's another tool in the tool chest. Its good to keep around just incase.
Linkadge
Posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:39:12
In reply to Regarding CBT » ace, posted by gardenergirl on November 30, 2005, at 22:18:56
> Hi ace,
> CBT may have been proven to worsen the symptoms of the diagnoses you mention (I haven't seen studies that say this.)
>
> But there are also numerous studies which show it is efficacious.
Those studies are done by Beck, Ellis, and Burns mostly and are fundamentally flawed in the statistical method they used. I studied statistics for years...."it is the smart way to lie". David D Burns sickens me with his arrogance and unfounded confidence in his dodgy statistic method.
>
> But it's not for everyone. If you tried it and found it made you worse, I'm sorry. It may not be a good fit for you, or the T may not have been a good fit.
>
> At any rate, you are still the Nardil Champ!
>
> gg
Thanks heaps!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ace
Posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:42:27
In reply to Re: SSRI + CBT= Joke therapy!, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2005, at 22:27:02
> I know that I have my reserves about SSRI's, but they do help some people.
True. But nowhere near as many to justify their wholesale usage and promotion. They have very limited use in my opinion.
>
>
> I'll be honest with you ace. With the little sucess that I had with meds, I acutally fared better on SSRI's that MAOI's. Parnate put me on the virge of paranoid psychosis.
Parnate made me very depressed. Nardil does the opposite. Maybe a TCA???
>
> I know a few other who did not do well on MAOI's, for similar reasons as mine.
>
>
> Some researchers think that the currently available SSRI's work via allopregnalone.
>
> Allopregnalone (sp.) is a potent gabaergic neurosteroid, and all of the SSRIs have been shown to increase its action some 20 fold.
>
> It interacts with progesterone and some other hormones, and may be more responsable for an SSRI effect than serotonin uptake inhibiton.
>
>
> So, even thought we don't know how SSRI's work for some people, I think it is necessary to keep an open mind because of discoveries like this one.
They all work the same: The even out the distribution of serotonin in the lobes of the brain. They don't 'add' any more serotonin. The only difference between them is they run through different pathways in the brain.
>
> If somebody found a med that worked, I'd hate to convince them out of taking something that might benefit them.I understand.
>
> (I know, I know, look who's talking)
>
>
> LinkadgeThanks bro...stay happy!
Ace
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Posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:45:36
In reply to Re: Regarding CBT, posted by linkadge on November 30, 2005, at 22:30:46
> CBT can be very helpfull for many people. I know it didn't help you, but it helped me.
That's great. But try to fully UNDERSTAND WHAT it helped you with....endogeneous or exogeneous matters???
>
> I didn't think it at the time, but now I find myself referring back to many of the techniques I used.Once again great. But I doubt its helping with your biochemical problem....we cant change the biochemistry through talking as some stupid psychs have said!!!!
>
> It's another tool in the tool chest. Its good to keep around just incase.True. Use it as a common sense therapy. But I am in disgust when it is used on a severly disturbed person afflicted with a biochemical imbalance.
>
> LinkadgeAce!
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 30, 2005, at 23:11:33
In reply to Re: Regarding CBT » linkadge, posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:45:36
> > CBT can be very helpfull for many people. I know it didn't help you, but it helped me.
>
> That's great...Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding CBT to Psycho-Babble Psychology. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/psycho/20051130/msgs/583989.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2005, at 10:51:07
In reply to Re: SSRI + CBT= Joke therapy! » linkadge, posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:42:27
"They all work the same: The even out the distribution of serotonin in the lobes of the brain. They don't 'add' any more serotonin. The only difference between them is they run through different pathways in the brain."
What do you mean by pathways ?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 1, 2005, at 10:57:42
In reply to Re: Regarding CBT » linkadge, posted by ace on November 30, 2005, at 22:45:36
Petting a dog increases your serotonin. Social interaction increases BDNF.
Even with something like heart disease, research has shown that a combination of medication and diet/extercise modification leads to the longest survival rates.
Additionally, research has shown that the combination of medication and psychotherapy can lead to better results than either alone in depression.
For instance. Learning new ways to reduce stress will ultimately have a positive impact on your brain chemistry, since stress can perturb monoaminergic dysfuction.
So there is one concrete way in which psychotherapy can alter a biochemical problem.
Linkadge
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