Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 583104

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Re: Isn't Toprol an ACE inhibitor?

Posted by med_empowered on November 29, 2005, at 2:26:09

In reply to Re: Isn't Toprol an ACE inhibitor? » alohashirt, posted by Sarah T. on November 29, 2005, at 2:00:35

hi! OK, I took beta blockers with some different meds for anxiety and overall "jitteriness". My experience is that low-doses are OK, but when you start taking it daily...your mood goes down a bit. Not necessarily a lot--its more like low-to-medium dose propranolol just kind of dampens it a bit. It also seems to make emotions less intense, which can be good in some situations, but wasn't so great overall on a day-to-day basis. Maybe Provigil plus low-dose Dexedrine/Ritalin? Also, if your doc is up for it, Desoxyn is actually a pretty good option...its kinda tricky to get up to the right dose, but its "cleaner" than the other amphetamines and causes fewer cardiovascular problems. Good luck!

 

Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker » mike99

Posted by Sarah T. on November 29, 2005, at 2:42:23

In reply to Stimulant + Beta Blocker, posted by mike99 on November 28, 2005, at 18:42:18

Hi Mike,

You said that you experienced chest pain when you were on zoloft. Were you taking stimulants or any other medications when you were on Zoloft?

Also, when you experience chest pain on stimulants, are you on stimulant monotherapy or are you combining the stimulants with other medications such as antidepressants?

Sarah

 

Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker

Posted by mike99 on November 29, 2005, at 3:51:44

In reply to Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker » mike99, posted by Sarah T. on November 29, 2005, at 2:42:23


I was not taking any other medications except flonase nasal spray for allergies when I took Zoloft and the pain occured within a half-hour of the first dose--so I'm sure that was the cause.

When I've taken stimulants I've also only taken them alone--not with antidepressants or any other meds except the flonase.

 

response to alohashirt

Posted by mike99 on November 29, 2005, at 4:03:33

In reply to Re: Previous post abridged (Stim + Beta blocker), posted by alohashirt on November 28, 2005, at 22:19:35

I take 6 grams of fish oil/day and can't take provigil due to mitral valve prolapse. I've Never tried coaching but have developed very good compensatory strategies (ie environmental controls)

The fish oil helps marginally. I will mention focalin to my Dr., but I would almost expect it to cause similiar side effects since my understanding is that only the "inactive" isomer is thrown out (?).

Blood pressure has not really been an issue so much as chest pain and heart rate-- but I guess they all go together.

 

desoxyn cleaner

Posted by mike99 on November 29, 2005, at 4:11:29

In reply to Re: Isn't Toprol an ACE inhibitor?, posted by med_empowered on November 29, 2005, at 2:26:09

> hi! OK, I took beta blockers with some different meds for anxiety and overall "jitteriness". My experience is that low-doses are OK, but when you start taking it daily...your mood goes down a bit. Not necessarily a lot--its more like low-to-medium dose propranolol just kind of dampens it a bit. It also seems to make emotions less intense, which can be good in some situations, but wasn't so great overall on a day-to-day basis. Maybe Provigil plus low-dose Dexedrine/Ritalin? Also, if your doc is up for it, Desoxyn is actually a pretty good option...its kinda tricky to get up to the right dose, but its "cleaner" than the other amphetamines and causes fewer cardiovascular problems. Good luck!


I have not yet ruled out a trial of desoxyn as you mention. Do you happen to know how it compares to methyphenidate in terms of peripheral stimulation? I understand it is much less peripherally activatin than dex or adderall, but am wondering how it compares to ritalin.

Also, my understanding is that propanolol is non-cardioselective beta blocker--- which means it also affects depresses other organs such as the brain and lungs in addition to the heart.

By comparison, cardio-selective bb's such as atenolol, metoprolol/toprol are relatively selective to the heart and hence less likely to cause mood depression. But this is all theory and as we all know experience certainly trumps that.

 

Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker --- NO » mike99

Posted by rphstudent on November 29, 2005, at 22:46:47

In reply to Stimulant + Beta Blocker, posted by mike99 on November 28, 2005, at 18:42:18

Please do not combine any amphetamine or methylphenidate or sympathomimetic agent with a beta-blocker. These type of stimulants produce action at both alpha and beta adrenergic receptors (i.e. increased heart rate and blood pressure among other things). They also work in concert, so blocking beta allows alpha to act unopposed and often leads to a dangerously high blood pressure and/or high pulse rate. If you must consider a beta-blocker, disucss one like labetolol which also has alpha blocking effects with both your pdoc and cardiologist/internist and pharmacist.
Best wishes.
>
> Does anyone have experience or helpful info regarding taking a beta-blocker to counter a stimulant--especially with regard to chest pain?
>
> Ritalin causes me rather severe chest pain. Dex and Adderall also cause me chest pain but much more fleeting and less intense (opposite of what I'd expect since Ritalin is supposed to be less stimulating than amphetamine, but I digress). This occurs at very low doses (2.5 mg Dex, 5 mg Ritalin). Both also increase my heart rate more than I'd like, but not excessively---chest pain is the main problem.
>
> Either way, I simply refuse to take anything that causes me chest discomfort. However stimulants are the only things that will touch my ADHD.
>
> My understanding is that beta blockers are more effective for tachycardia whereas nitrates (nitroglycerin) are better for chest pain.
>
> I've had my heart checked by more cardiologists than I care to admit and it's (thankfully) normal except for mild mitral valve prolapse. However for some reason even miniscule doses of stimulants cause me chest discomfort. (BTW I once took 50 mg of Zoloft and had the most intense chest pain I've ever experienced and so never took it again).
>
> I've been very reluctive to try a beta blocker with dex or ritalin, but am now considering it and so would appreciate any feedback on this.
>
> My apologies for rambling on...so I'm just going to throw out a few questions:
>
> 1. Is a beta-blocker likely to protect my heart from angina/damage?
>
> 2. If so what dosage would be appropriate for Dexedrine 10 mg/dy or Ritalin 40 mg/dy?
>
> 3. Can anyone recommend any particular beta-blocker (i.e. a cardioselective such as atenolol).
>
> 4. Would a beta blocker cause my blood pressure to drop below safe as it is normally around 105/65?
>
> 5. Would it affect my athletic performance (I exercise vigorously)?
>
> 6. Are ED and depression likely?
>
> 7. Perhaps my biggest concern aside from effectiveness is tolerance--- I'm only 28 and do not want to start a beta blocker if I'm going to have to increase the dosage over the years.
>
> Thanks for any input.
>
>
>
>

 

Desoxyn

Posted by med_empowered on November 30, 2005, at 1:22:17

In reply to desoxyn cleaner, posted by mike99 on November 29, 2005, at 4:11:29

hi! I've never taken desoxyn, so I can't give you first hand accounts. From what I understand, though, the reason methamphetamine became somewhat popular in psychiatry (it seems to have been more popular for weight loss, though) was its "cleaner" side-effect profile. Once the dose is titrated (apparently it causes anxiety during this period--more so than other amphetamines), the side-effects were relatively mild (aside from the weight loss, of course). Anyway, it wasn't ever all that popular, and its less popular now, but..if your doc is up for it, it might be a good alternative...its pretty good as an anti-depressant (for some people), so if depression or dysthmia contributes to your ADHD, it could be helpful there, too. Good luck!

 

Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker --- NO » rphstudent

Posted by Sarah T. on November 30, 2005, at 2:06:37

In reply to Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker --- NO » mike99, posted by rphstudent on November 29, 2005, at 22:46:47

Hello, rphstudent,

Thanks very much for that very important and interesting post.

S.

 

Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker --- NO

Posted by mike99 on November 30, 2005, at 13:29:18

In reply to Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker --- NO » rphstudent, posted by Sarah T. on November 30, 2005, at 2:06:37


Thanks so much for such great information rphstudent... much appreciated...hopefully I won't need a beta blocker at all but if so I'll make sure the doc is aware it should also have alpha-blocking actions...

Thanks also for you encouragement and info on desoxyn med_empowered...

I'm going to bring up Focalin to my doc and if that fails then desoxyn.

 

Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by mike99 on November 30, 2005, at 13:35:02

In reply to Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker --- NO, posted by mike99 on November 30, 2005, at 13:29:18


I have a few questions about desoxyn if anyone happens to know the answers:

1. Is Desoxyn racemic methamphetamine or just d-methamphetamine (I believe l-methamphetamine is in the vicks degongestant inhaler)?

2. I have read that meth is metabolized to amphetamine... Is it metabolized into both levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine.

3. Is the conversion to amphetamine clinically significant? My understanding is that one of the benefits of meth or standard amphetamine is that it is less peripherally acting...but if it's converted to amphetamine wouldn't this then have the same peripheral actions as dextro and/or levoamphetamine?

Thanks a bunch

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology » mike99

Posted by Paulbwell on November 30, 2005, at 16:41:11

In reply to Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by mike99 on November 30, 2005, at 13:35:02

>
> I have a few questions about desoxyn if anyone happens to know the answers:
>
> 1. Is Desoxyn racemic methamphetamine or just d-methamphetamine (I believe l-methamphetamine is in the vicks degongestant inhaler)?
>
> 2. I have read that meth is metabolized to amphetamine... Is it metabolized into both levoamphetamine and dextroamphetamine.
>
> 3. Is the conversion to amphetamine clinically significant? My understanding is that one of the benefits of meth or standard amphetamine is that it is less peripherally acting...but if it's converted to amphetamine wouldn't this then have the same peripheral actions as dextro and/or levoamphetamine?
>
> Thanks a bunch

I understand your issues,i have beeen diagnosed as ADD/HD by a top PsyDoc i have taken Methylphenidate for nearing 2 years now-70,100mgs daily-IR tabs. I sometimes get Heart palpitationns, irregular beats,lke this morning. I am scriptrd Propranolol 10mg tabs, for this and take a low dose of 20mgs when this happens-no problem.

From everything i have read on ADD/HD children SEEM to respomd to Ritalin best.

Dexedrine (Dextroamphetamine sulphate) DOES indeed seem to be preferred by MOST adult clients.

Straight Levo-amphetamine-Aspartate, Sulphate-as found in Adderall, used to be used as a diet pill,(1960s, 70s) and raises body activity in many, causing discomfort.

Desoxyn is Pharm grade (Methamphetamine Hcl)tabs. It's unfortunate this compound has such a large stigma curently---due to frank abuse of the smokeable form), however i know of folks who have takem Desoxyn for decades, without problems.

Desoxyn DOES INDEED have the greatest peripheral-to central stimulation, of ALL the ADD/HD medications, and if i had my way, would take it anyday over Methylphenidate.(pity it's not available here)

I am not looking for a high, or a buzz, just satisfactory control, of my disorder, so as to lead a 'normal' life.

cheers

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by jamestheyonger on November 30, 2005, at 19:56:26

In reply to Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by mike99 on November 30, 2005, at 13:35:02

> 3. Is the conversion to amphetamine clinically significant? My understanding is that one of the benefits of meth or standard amphetamine is that it is less peripherally acting...but if it's converted to amphetamine wouldn't this then have the same peripheral actions as dextro and/or levoamphetamine?
>
> Thanks a bunch


http://publib.upol.cz/~obd/fulltext/Chemica40/chem40-3.pdf


"In all cases, (–)-L-MAP, which is physiologically much less active, is excreted mainly in unchanged form, whereas the found concentrations of the opposite (+)-MAP
enantiomer are significantly lower. A maximum concentration of MAP in urine can be
found in about 12 hours after the oral administration, then its level decreases. It was
still possible to detect and separate MAP enantiomers 48 hours after the administration
of the drug. For the racemic MAP administered, the situation is very similar,(+)-D-MAP is more distributed and transformed in comparison to (–)-MAP.

Amphetamine, the main metabolite of MAP, was also present in assayed urine samples. Again, the less active (–)-AP isomer was found in higher concentration. This isomer came exclusively from (–)-isomer of MAP, no cross isomerisation was observed. A maximum amount of AP enantiomers was found in 24 hours after administration of drug."

So phenylethylamine
http://www.chocolate.org/pea.htm) and both isomers of Amphetamine are the primary products of metabolism.

I have read that it may well be Amphetamine is what provides the stimulation in MAP & that MAP
may not be active or very active in humans. In a study of experienced IV drug users they could not tell the difference between MAP and AP by injection. So MAP is "stronger" as it hangs around longer to be changed into AP. AP has a much shorter half life than MAP.

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by jamestheyonger on November 30, 2005, at 20:26:12

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by jamestheyonger on November 30, 2005, at 19:56:26

> So phenylethylamine
> http://www.chocolate.org/pea.htm) and both isomers of Amphetamine are the primary products of metabolism.

Opps, wrong graph. In order it is norephedrine,
Amphetamine, other products related to Amphetamine and Methamphetamine, then unchanged Methamphetamine. Both isomers are present.

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology » jamestheyonger

Posted by Paulbwell on December 1, 2005, at 5:28:40

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by jamestheyonger on November 30, 2005, at 20:26:12

> > So phenylethylamine
> > http://www.chocolate.org/pea.htm) and both isomers of Amphetamine are the primary products of metabolism.
>
> Opps, wrong graph. In order it is norephedrine,
> Amphetamine, other products related to Amphetamine and Methamphetamine, then unchanged Methamphetamine. Both isomers are present.

Opps i meant Desoxyn, has the greatest 'Centrally acting TO peripherally acting' effects. The cleanest, strongest and longest acting, stim-apparently.

Cheers

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by jamestheyonger on December 1, 2005, at 10:25:41

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology » jamestheyonger, posted by Paulbwell on December 1, 2005, at 5:28:40

> Opps i meant Desoxyn, has the greatest 'Centrally acting TO peripherally acting' effects. The cleanest, strongest and longest acting, stim-apparently.
>
> Cheers

Right, Desoxyn is methamphetamine hydrochloride,
the same are the study I mentioned.


 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by mike99 on December 1, 2005, at 17:06:28

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology » mike99, posted by Paulbwell on November 30, 2005, at 16:41:11


Thanks paulbwell for your post-- it's nice to know I'm not the only one with such experiences :)

Thanks also jamestheyounger for the great info on meth metabolism.

My concern about desoxyn is that since it is racemic methamphetamine, that it is eventually metabolized to racemic amphetamine (d and l amphetamine). Since I cannot tolerate the
l-amphetamine isomer (25% of adderall) this conversion could be problematic.

I plan to give Focalin a shot before desoxyn so maybe that will work out.

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by jamestheyonger on December 1, 2005, at 17:37:41

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by mike99 on December 1, 2005, at 17:06:28

> My concern about desoxyn is that since it is racemic methamphetamine, that it is eventually metabolized to racemic amphetamine (d and l amphetamine). Since I cannot tolerate the
> l-amphetamine isomer (25% of adderall) this conversion could be problematic.

Then why not just take Dexadrine (d-amphetamine)?
Hmmm, illicit methamphetamine is d isomer as it is generally crystal meth and l-methamphetamine will not crystalize.

I cannot tell the difference between d-methamphetamine and dexadrine (d-amphetamine),
other than length of action. I have not had any experience with l-amphetamine or l-methamphetamine but it is well reported that there are more side effects with the l isomer.
The spansule formulation for dexadrine allows
for a longer action. generic formulations exist
so dexadrine can be cheap.

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by mike99 on December 1, 2005, at 18:59:01

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by jamestheyonger on December 1, 2005, at 17:37:41

I'm taking Dexedrine now, but I've only been able to tolerate very small doses-- under 5 mg/day, which does not do much for my symptoms.

I am trying very patiently increase my dosage as my body will tolerate it. However, my heart tends to go crazy on any dose that is effective for my symptoms. Nonetheless it is much more tolerable than Adderall since it doesn't contain the (in my opinion) junk levoamphetamine isomer (and has the added benefit of being much cheaper-even with the brand).

This is my third time trying dexedrine and I'm only increasing my dose by 1.25 mg every day or every other day as tolerated. Hopefully my patience will pay off. If not I plan to give Focalin a shot. I would be very happy though if Dex works out though since it works well on my symptoms.

 

Re: Desoxyn cf dexedrine

Posted by alohashirt on December 1, 2005, at 20:58:52

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by jamestheyonger on December 1, 2005, at 17:37:41


> I cannot tell the difference between d-methamphetamine and dexadrine (d-amphetamine),
> other than length of action. I have not had any experience
>

Many years ago I found that whilst (mon-prescribed) methamphetamine helped my study habits I began taking it in larger and larger quantities, and became somewhat ill, stressed and it was net-negative. I did not have that experience when prescribed dexedrine nor did I have the insane cleaning binges, or euphoria. It may be a dose issue, may be age, may be something else - I don't know but perhaps methamphetamine truly is more addictive than dexedrine in the same way that nicotine appears to be more addictive than cocaine

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by jamestheyonger on December 1, 2005, at 23:09:41

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by mike99 on December 1, 2005, at 18:59:01

"However, my heart tends to go crazy on any dose that is effective for my symptoms."


Norepinephrine is always associated with things cardiac, NE has a lot to do with cardiac functions. All the NT's have multiple effects through out the body. Things that effect NE seem to be most effective for me & they all carry the risk of increased heart rate or blood pressure. Amphetamine did not increase heart rate or blood pressure for me, nor does/did any TCA, Remeron, or Wellbrutin. I was on Effexor for many years without problems till I went very hypertensive, like 140/105. Stopping Effexor lowered my blood pressure to normal.

I would expect any amphetamine like med to cause you problems WRT things cardiac as you seem very sensitive to these effects. However it is reasonable to first try several stims and dosing schedules to see if you can tolerate them. The next reasonable step is a cardiac med to counter the cardiac side effects. I did not associate Effexor with my hypertension for 2 years and took Cozaar which worked quite well with no side effects or hypotension. I cannot say if Cozaar
is OK with Amphetamine as I stopped that as soon as I discovered my hypertension. There are a huge number a cardiac meds so it should be very likely you can find one the lowers heart rate enough without inducing hypotension.

 

Re: Stimulant + Beta Blocker

Posted by vbAgent on December 2, 2005, at 0:13:26

In reply to Stimulant + Beta Blocker, posted by mike99 on November 28, 2005, at 18:42:18

> Does anyone have experience or helpful info regarding taking a beta-blocker to counter a stimulant--especially with regard to chest pain?
>
> Ritalin causes me rather severe chest pain. Dex and Adderall also cause me chest pain but much more fleeting and less intense (opposite of what I'd expect since Ritalin is supposed to be less stimulating than amphetamine, but I digress). This occurs at very low doses (2.5 mg Dex, 5 mg Ritalin). Both also increase my heart rate more than I'd like, but not excessively---chest pain is the main problem.
>
> Either way, I simply refuse to take anything that causes me chest discomfort. However stimulants are the only things that will touch my ADHD.
>
> My understanding is that beta blockers are more effective for tachycardia whereas nitrates (nitroglycerin) are better for chest pain.
>
> I've had my heart checked by more cardiologists than I care to admit and it's (thankfully) normal except for mild mitral valve prolapse. However for some reason even miniscule doses of stimulants cause me chest discomfort. (BTW I once took 50 mg of Zoloft and had the most intense chest pain I've ever experienced and so never took it again).
>
> I've been very reluctive to try a beta blocker with dex or ritalin, but am now considering it and so would appreciate any feedback on this.
>
>
>
> My apologies for rambling on...so I'm just going to throw out a few questions:
>
>
> 1. Is a beta-blocker likely to protect my heart from angina/damage?

Yes.

> 2. If so what dosage would be appropriate for Dexedrine 10 mg/dy or Ritalin 40 mg/dy?

Only after using trial and error to find the optimal drug and dose. Discuss this with your doctor.

> 3. Can anyone recommend any particular beta-blocker (i.e. a cardioselective such as atenolol).

Metoprolol (aka Toprol or Toprol XL).

> 4. Would a beta blocker cause my blood pressure to drop below safe as it is normally around 105/65?

Hypotension may present a problem, but I think it's unlikely as long as you're prescribed something in the lower dose range, like 25-75mg.


> 5. Would it affect my athletic performance (I exercise vigorously)?

Yes, via a dose-related response. It may reduce your Resting HR, Exercising HR and Maximal Exercise HR.

> 6. Are ED and depression likely?

Maybe yes, maybe no...but probably not if you're prescribed a low dose.

> 7. Perhaps my biggest concern aside from effectiveness is tolerance--- I'm only 28 and do not want to start a beta blocker if I'm going to have to increase the dosage over the years.

I don't think tolerance is a factor you need to consider here.

> Thanks for any input.

FYI: Beta-blockers are different from another commonly prescribed antihypertensive called ACE inhibitors. ACE inhibitors prevent the formation of a potent hormone that constricts blood vessels. The end result is that blood vessels dilate, and blood pressure decreases in response.

Now, beta-blockers effectively antagonizes beta-adrenergic receptors and limit sympathetic nervous system output/stimulation. In other words, they block the effects of catecholamines (epinephrine, norepinephrine, dopamine) throughout the body. Hence the reason that beta-blockers reduce the heart's workload.

 

Re: Desoxyn Vs other stimulants!! » alohashirt

Posted by Paulbwell on December 2, 2005, at 19:34:22

In reply to Re: Desoxyn cf dexedrine, posted by alohashirt on December 1, 2005, at 20:58:52

>
> > I cannot tell the difference between d-methamphetamine and dexadrine (d-amphetamine),
> > other than length of action. I have not had any experience
> >
>
> Many years ago I found that whilst (mon-prescribed) methamphetamine helped my study habits I began taking it in larger and larger quantities, and became somewhat ill, stressed and it was net-negative. I did not have that experience when prescribed dexedrine nor did I have the insane cleaning binges, or euphoria. It may be a dose issue, may be age, may be something else - I don't know but perhaps methamphetamine truly is more addictive than dexedrine in the same way that nicotine appears to be more addictive than cocaine

Hi Folks,

Most folks who have had the luck of trying Desoxyn, describe it as the more superior,

Less perpherifial effects, less body activation, and a basically cleaner CNS effect.

ASAIC Desoxyn is the leader in ADD/hd and CERTAINLY Narcolepsy EDS treatment.

It MUST be that extra methyl component, and taken at medically scripted doses, can be, and has (from patients i'v read) taken for decades, without producing a burnt out speed addict!-CNS damage to the Dopamine sustem!.

cheers

 

Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology

Posted by mike99 on December 3, 2005, at 13:14:27

In reply to Re: Desoxyn metabolism/pharmacology, posted by jamestheyonger on December 1, 2005, at 23:09:41

Thanks for all the info. Hopefully a cardiac med will help out.

Do stimulants cause the coronary arteries to constrict? I realize they constrict the peripheral vasculature resulting in increased blood pressure, but sometimes I get a chest tighness/pain on even 1.25 mg of Dex, even though at this dose neither my heart rate or blood pressure are hardly elevated.

Anything above 10 mg of Ritalin causes me marked chest pain.

Chest pain as I understand comes from an imbalance between cardiac blood/oxygen supply and demand. I can run several miles followed by heavy weight lifting with no chest pain whatsoever and nothing but normal increases in heart rate/ blood pressure. However, even 1.25-2.5 mg of Dex causes brief but noticeable chest pain without any significant increase in cardiac oxygen demand.

I've heard that stimulant induced cardiomyopathy (usually seen with abuse) may be related to constriction of and injury to the smallest arteries supplying the heart (arterioles). I've had my coronary arteries checked on an MRI with a contrast dye to see the them and they're normal. Also had a normal stress echocardiogram.

Any thoughts on why stimulants would cause chest pain in someone without coronary/heart disease/normal thyroid and in doses that do not noticeably affect cardiac oxygen demand? I'm really puzzled by this.

 

Re: Desoxyn Vs other stimulants!!

Posted by alohashirt on December 3, 2005, at 22:53:53

In reply to Re: Desoxyn Vs other stimulants!! » alohashirt, posted by Paulbwell on December 2, 2005, at 19:34:22

> >
> > > I cannot tell the difference between d-methamphetamine and dexadrine (d-amphetamine),
> > > other than length of action. I have not had any experience
> > >
> >
> > Many years ago I found that whilst (mon-prescribed) methamphetamine helped my study habits I began taking it in larger and larger quantities, and became somewhat ill, stressed and it was net-negative. I did not have that experience when prescribed dexedrine nor did I have the insane cleaning binges, or euphoria. It may be a dose issue, may be age, may be something else - I don't know but perhaps methamphetamine truly is more addictive than dexedrine in the same way that nicotine appears to be more addictive than cocaine
>
> Hi Folks,
>
> Most folks who have had the luck of trying Desoxyn, describe it as the more superior,
>
> Less perpherifial effects, less body activation, and a basically cleaner CNS effect.
>
> ASAIC Desoxyn is the leader in ADD/hd and CERTAINLY Narcolepsy EDS treatment.
>
> It MUST be that extra methyl component, and taken at medically scripted doses, can be, and has (from patients i'v read) taken for decades, without producing a burnt out speed addict!-CNS damage to the Dopamine sustem!.
>

I'm not suggesting that I believe the "War on Drugs" hysteria or even the hysterias produced by the anti-medication or anti-ADHD brigades. Just proposing that perhaps there is such a thing as "addictive substances" (I am not completely convinced on this) and that, if so, methamphetamine might have a different "addictiveness" than dexedrine. Regarding the superiority of methamphetamine for ADHD - perhaps you're correct but , if there is a substantive difference I would expect that those ADHD clinicians confident enough of their expertise to prescribe what they choose would be prescribing methamphetamine yet I don't see that happening. I'd also expect that there could eb some research results illustrating this. I recognize that reserachers focus on areas where there is money to be made.

I'd encourage you to try desoxyn for a month, try dexedrine and report back on the results!

 

Re: Desoxyn Vs other stimulants!!

Posted by jamestheyonger on December 4, 2005, at 0:46:00

In reply to Re: Desoxyn Vs other stimulants!! » alohashirt, posted by Paulbwell on December 2, 2005, at 19:34:22


"Less perpherifial effects, less body activation"

I find it hard to believe that something with 50%
l isomer has less of these effects as the l isomer is well reported to cause these effects.


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