Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 579264

Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by pseudoname on November 16, 2005, at 8:32:56

Interesting. In a Q&A session after he spoke at a neuroscience conference last week, someone asked the Dalai Lama...

     Q: What if we could surgically remove a patient's
       negative emotions, and it worked better
       than meditation — should we do it?
     DL:  "Yes."
     Q:  What if the patient didn't want us to
       surgically remove his negative emotions?
     DL:  "Use force, with good intentions."

Article at: http://www.slate.com/id/2130455/

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by sdb on November 16, 2005, at 12:19:43

In reply to forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by pseudoname on November 16, 2005, at 8:32:56

Very interesting interview. Maybe Dalai Lama is drugged himself? -Hmmm, what about the side effects of the surgery?

Unfortunately if you think rationally the humanoid make you depressive.

Fortunately if you would think only logically you would not have any problems.

So, I would be happy more to be like Mr. Spock.

But because Mr. D. Lama (does not need to be MD) is a a god (?) I give him my respect. I have read books from him, I like him actually.

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by sdb on November 16, 2005, at 12:45:12

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by sdb on November 16, 2005, at 12:19:43

Dear holy Dalai Lama,

If there are no negative emotions, positive emotions would really exist? -Or do you prefer mankind live in a world without emotions because no definition exist?

Its not a question what is better or what is more bad or what is good and evil I think its more the question who decide?

Truly mankind is only survivable thinking logically, maybe you are right if you are philantroph.

I am very sorry if I wrote something wrong.

If you can cure somebody cure him not me.

My honest regards

sdb

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 23:40:37

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by sdb on November 16, 2005, at 12:45:12

Interesting, Fondly, Phillipa

 

ummmm....

Posted by med_empowered on November 17, 2005, at 16:32:53

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 23:40:37

wow. that's creepy. But asking the Dalai Lama about psychiatry and civil rights is like asking the Pope about evolution and astrophysics--its out of his domain (thank goodness).

 

Re: ummmm....

Posted by sdb on November 17, 2005, at 18:15:46

In reply to ummmm...., posted by med_empowered on November 17, 2005, at 16:32:53

The difference is in the definition.

The Pope is at least successor of the apostel Petrus (and terrorist, please dont take it to personal). Nothing more.

Dalai Lama was selected by special people of his homeland during childhood to be their reincarnated god.

> wow. that's creepy. But asking the Dalai Lama about psychiatry and civil rights is like asking the Pope about evolution and astrophysics--its out of his domain (thank goodness).

 

still...

Posted by med_empowered on November 18, 2005, at 1:37:16

In reply to Re: ummmm...., posted by sdb on November 17, 2005, at 18:15:46

still...although the dalai lama seems nifty, he represents a spiritual tradition/religion, rather than speaking for the rights of the individual. I just find his statement really, really disturbing--to me, forcible "psychiatric intervention" of any sort is inherently *violent* and the dalai lama of all people generally comes out against *violence* in its varied forms.

 

Re: still...

Posted by sdb on November 18, 2005, at 4:30:01

In reply to still..., posted by med_empowered on November 18, 2005, at 1:37:16

I absolutely agree with you.

Dalai Lama mostly sends messages of no violence to people. And he won a price for that.

But there are exceptions.

He said that a war is sometimes justified. Or forced intervention of brain surgery...

But contradictions are normal in humanoids.

I personally would be interested in his thoughts about drugs acting in the brain. Many substances a man eat daily is acting in the brain.

The buddhism says he came from the bodhisattvas (some individuals who do need to live again and again on this planet normally) to live as a (normal) man, monk on the planet.

> still...although the dalai lama seems nifty, he represents a spiritual tradition/religion, rather than speaking for the rights of the individual. I just find his statement really, really disturbing--to me, forcible "psychiatric intervention" of any sort is inherently *violent* and the dalai lama of all people generally comes out against *violence* in its varied forms.

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by gardenergirl on November 18, 2005, at 11:09:42

In reply to forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by pseudoname on November 16, 2005, at 8:32:56

> >      Q:  What if the patient didn't want us to
>        surgically remove his negative emotions?
>      DL:  "Use force, with good intentions."
>
> Article at: http://www.slate.com/id/2130455/

From the article, near the end:
"Some of these questions seemed designed to bait the Dalai Lama into saying something really religious. But he managed to giggle his way out of every awkward moment, never saying anything that might offend his audience. After all, he wasn't at the conference to teach neuroscientists about Buddhist ideology or ethics—he was there to push a research agenda."

I took his statement, "Use force, with good intentions" as one of these "giggling his way out of it" events. I don't believe for a minute that he was serious.

gg

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama » gardenergirl

Posted by Emme on November 18, 2005, at 12:20:52

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by gardenergirl on November 18, 2005, at 11:09:42

I have to agree with Gardenergirl. The Dalai Lama has a very silly sense of humor. The article can't convey his intonation or facial expression when he made that comment. It strikes me as something that was probably said in jest.

emme

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by alexandra_k on November 18, 2005, at 22:34:59

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by gardenergirl on November 18, 2005, at 11:09:42

could there be pleasure without pain?

most of us think it is possible to have pain without pleasure... i mean... some people are born with horrible conditions and die in a week or something without ever having food or anything. it is surely possible to know an existence that is merely pain so why not...

pleasure?

they have found the pleasure centre in the brain... all you need is for some kind-hearted doc to ram an electrode in your brain and if it were stimulated indefinately you would have pleasure pleasure pleasure

of course you would need a drip and co or you would die of starvation...

 

DL would undergo surgery

Posted by pseudoname on November 19, 2005, at 19:20:19

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by gardenergirl on November 18, 2005, at 11:09:42

The only other mention I can find of the DL's forced-treatment comment is this:

<snip>
If scientists develop a surgery to remove hatred and jealousy from the brain, “I’ll be the first patient,” he declared.
<snip>
    –Ishani Ganguli, writer for "Science," who was apparently at the conference http://media.the-scientist.com/blog/browse/blogger/11/date/2005-11/

That sounds giggly, but Ganguli says "he DECLARED," which is does not. I wish these writers would stop promoting ambiguity in their reporting.

 

Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama

Posted by omi1 on November 23, 2005, at 14:28:56

In reply to Re: forced surgery by Dalai Lama, posted by sdb on November 16, 2005, at 12:45:12

I think the DL just wants people to be happy, full stop. Perhaps medicine is not his area of expertise, though. I guess he didn't have the experience to know this would offend us mixed nuts ;)

His area is peace. I saw him speaking last night. He was in Belfast Cathedral (northern ireland). The event brought together Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, Sikh, Hindu. It was moving and humbling to hear prayers from each religion and see children of each faith lighting candles of peace.

I just wanted to share an inspirational occasion with you all!

 

Re: DL would undergo surgery

Posted by Iansf on November 23, 2005, at 16:56:33

In reply to DL would undergo surgery, posted by pseudoname on November 19, 2005, at 19:20:19

I think the Dalai Lama has a different conception of being human than most people, at least most Westerners, do. A major underlying tenet of Buddhism is that all life is an illusion and that the individual self is an illusion within an illusion. The loss of autonomy means little when you view things this way.

Also, Tibet is still a feudal society - and was even more so when the Dalai Lama fled to escape imprisonment by the Chinese. He was raised in a fairly autocratic environment, where the religious hierarchy held great power to determine individual lives. A great deal of his thinking continues to reflect the (in my opinion dangerous) belief that religious leaders always have the best interest of the people in mind.


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