Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 579210

Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med

Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

Okay I'm getting tired of trying to decide if meds hurt or help. So lurkers it's time to come out of the wookwork and help answer my question. Do you think meds help or hinder. And the Babblers please answer too. I know you're there and value all of your opinions and they will be varied too. Get brave and come out of the closet. Please help! Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About

Posted by iforgotmypassword on November 16, 2005, at 1:46:15

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

i think a big problem is that we are treating things according to subjective observation, and only make guesswork into what we are treating physically.

we need much, much better diagnostic clarity.

this is at least how i see things in relation to my experience... and i prsume a lot of other peoples but i have an empathy factor below zero.

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med

Posted by blueberry on November 16, 2005, at 3:27:39

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

I think meds are very helpful when they are "on target", that is, directly versus indirectly addressing the real underlying cause of symptoms. It could be serotonin, could be norepinephrine, could be dopamine, could be GABA, could be glutamate, could have nothing at all do to with neurotransmitters but instead involves electricity, could be the flow of neurotransmitters....whatever, we just don't have a way to figure it out except to go by clues from how we respond to different meds. If the med is on target, it is extremely helpful. If it is off target, it is minorly helpful, not helpful at all, or even hurtful.

Just my thoughts.

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About

Posted by valene on November 16, 2005, at 7:47:16

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

OK. I'm basically a lurker but here's my opinion: psych meds don't CURE anything. Even my psychiatrist admits that. In fact over time, most people tend to get worse on a particular psychiatric medication.

Thank God my pyschiatrist does not push any drugs at me. I am in the process of weaning off a benzodiazepine which I've been on for several years.

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About

Posted by xbunny on November 16, 2005, at 9:06:33

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

> Okay I'm getting tired of trying to decide if meds hurt or help.
> Do you think meds help or hinder.

Hi Phillipa

I think meds help _me_. My life has improved markedly since finding a medication regiem that works well. However before finding this medication regiem it would be harder to pin an opinion on whether the medication was a help or a hinderance. There were numerous problems and any benefits seemed slight and barely useful.
I also think however that meds dont help everybody. Im sure many people doggedly try medication after medication that doesnt work when other treatments might yield results. For these people is medication a hinderance? well its hard to say. Perhaps after perservering and persuing that elusive medication they find it (like I did) and all is better in this case I would say no medication is not a hinderance even when it didnt work as the person needs to try medications to find one that works. Coversely if that person is directed away from other treatment options and cursed to never find a med that works then it probably is a hinderance. I think overall a balance needs to be struck some people will benefit from medication others wont. The only time you will be able to determine for yourself if medication is help or a hinderance is after you have either found a med that works or decided that treatment with medication is innapropriate for you and another treatment is superior. As far as I can tell the determination can only be made with hindsight.

Best regards Bunny

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About » Phillipa

Posted by rod on November 16, 2005, at 9:33:00

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

> Okay I'm getting tired of trying to decide if meds hurt or help. So lurkers it's time to come out of the wookwork and help answer my question. Do you think meds help or hinder. And the Babblers please answer too. I know you're there and value all of your opinions and they will be varied too. Get brave and come out of the closet. Please help! Fondly, Phillipa

Hi Phillipa

Well.. there is no general answer to your question.

And it also depends on what you expect from the drugs / why you take them / what you try to achieve by using them ...

When I look back, you once took a single dose of 5(?) mg Nortriptyline, and complained "it didnt work". What should have happened that you say "it worked"?

What are your symptoms, probelms, diagnosis? what are you trying to achieve by using drugs ?

bye
Rod

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med

Posted by naughtypuppy on November 16, 2005, at 12:15:31

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

I think that one of the big problems with psychopharmacology is that the medical community assumes that our brains are clean slates, completely unaffected by the last round of medicinal indignities that were perpetrated on them. We know now that antidepressants don’t work by simply increasing the amount of neurotransmitters, but they do cause an actual change to the brain structure/function. My own theory, for what its worth, is that perhaps it is the sequence of drug treatments that we receive that is causing many of us to be classified as treatment resistant. If we are given the wrong medication for our individual physiological disorder initially, then maybe it changes our brain function so that a possibly effective drug won’t work now. In other words, our brains are so screwed up by the previous drugs, than none of them have a chance to work!

Just my two cents worth on the subject. Any comments on this grandiose theory?

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About

Posted by Lucia Francisca on November 16, 2005, at 13:10:54

In reply to Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by naughtypuppy on November 16, 2005, at 12:15:31

Hi Phillipa. I think you have bipolar I or II also, like me (I have been diagnosed with Bipolar II)? I do think meds have helped me. I was on Celexa and Lexapro for 5 years. Maybe they did induce rapid cycling, as my pdoc now thinks, but they really did help with the severe depression I had about 5 years ago. My pdoc recently switched me to Seroquel, an atypical antipsychotic that works as a mood stability when given in low doses to those with Bipolar II. Apparently, my pdoc thought I was in a hypomanic state lately cuz I wasn't sleeping for a few nights, had racing, extremely negative thoughts, a lot of anxiety, etc. Well, I'll tell you, whereas the Lexapro and Trazodone combo didn't help me sleep, once I took the Seroquel, it really helped me sleep and feel better, almost instantaneously. I was also exercising like twice a day and seeing my therapist, but I really think the medication helped a lot. I'm optimistic right now about meds--if it can keep me from those icky hypomanic periods where I can't sleep for days and only think negative thoughts--then I'll take it!

> I think that one of the big problems with psychopharmacology is that the medical community assumes that our brains are clean slates, completely unaffected by the last round of medicinal indignities that were perpetrated on them. We know now that antidepressants don’t work by simply increasing the amount of neurotransmitters, but they do cause an actual change to the brain structure/function. My own theory, for what its worth, is that perhaps it is the sequence of drug treatments that we receive that is causing many of us to be classified as treatment resistant. If we are given the wrong medication for our individual physiological disorder initially, then maybe it changes our brain function so that a possibly effective drug won’t work now. In other words, our brains are so screwed up by the previous drugs, than none of them have a chance to work!
>
> Just my two cents worth on the subject. Any comments on this grandiose theory?
>
>

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med

Posted by denise190466 on November 16, 2005, at 13:51:54

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

Hi Phillipa,

I know for a fact that antidepressants can be life changing and can really really help, that is when they work but when they dont work you get the flip side of the coin.

I have been on the end of both sides, years ago as I've said so many times because I soooo yearn for those days, they really worked well for me and I didn't have to try drug after drug after drug to find the right one. I was antidepressant naive in those days so never really knew what to expect but the first time I took prothiaden (a tryciclic) I felt as though I walked into another dimension, colours were more vivid and brighter, my sense of smell was better, music sounded amplified, I felt relaxed and yet more motivated. I felt like pinching myself because it felt like a wonderful dream and I thanked God for releasing me. They worked so well I just assumed they worked that way for everyone.

Now I know different, years later and I'm trying drug after drug to no avail, I've had horrendous start up affects but thanks to Zyprexa I can now deal with those, ok the depression is not as bad as when I don't take them at all but I still lack motivation, everything is an effort and I either feel tired or tense. Exercise doesn't help. And this time I don't know who to blame, I thanked him/her when they worked who do I blame when they don't work.

What appalls me is that they give you drugs (which I'm grateful for) which do things to your brain but not once do you get a brain scan for them to see what they are doing when they do and don't work. There are no diagnostic tools so everything is just trial and error and sometimes the error results in suicide.

Also the awful thing about depression is the stupid suggestions people make and that you somehow feel obliged to try otherwise you feel as though you're not trying hard enough. With depression you lose all sense of motivation and yet you have to do all the things you wouldn't normally do to prove to everyone else that you are trying to beat it.

I hate this thing called "depression" I don't even know what it is and that makes me hate it even more.

Sorry to go rambling on but I guess in a nutshell then I would advise anyone to give it six months without medication and if the depression is still there then go for medication, try everything because that's all you can do.


Denise

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med » Phillipa

Posted by Ilene on November 16, 2005, at 21:53:18

In reply to Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 1:02:50

I had success about 20 years ago on desipramine and then Prozac. The Prozac pooped out and since then nothing has really worked (except I've been feeling better since Sunday--maybe it's due to Cymbalta). So I *know* meds can work, but I've also experienced years and years of trying one med after another w/out success. That's a problem--depression becomes progressively harder to treat the longer you have it.

I.

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med

Posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 21:56:16

In reply to Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by denise190466 on November 16, 2005, at 13:51:54

See I think aside from having panic attacks at age 22 I was and never have depressed. And my mood doesn't swing high or low so I don't want to get out of bed. At age 22 I was given 5mg of valium three times a day with meprobomated 450mg. I had a problem baby at the time who cried 24hours a day and had to keep being hospitalizded. When she was around 4 i found Aerobic Dance and my life changed. I found something I loved to do and was good at became an instructor. I stopped the meprobomate. and continued the valium. And gradually cut down on it too. Til I was only taking it at night. And I admitt I drank beer at night. They didn't know the dangers of alchohol and meds at the time. So over the years I was switched from valium after completing nursing school and graduating magna cum laude, recepient of a lot of awards and scholarship for the last year. To ativan when it came out small dose which i even stopped and stopped drinking for a few months. To just being happy traveling out of bad marriage. Moved to VA Beach on my own and the psych doctor I saw there was a referral from the one I had in CT. He even worked in the same psychiatric hospital I did. And recommended me for a job at the jail he did parttime work in and so I did too. He even suggested that I only saw him to get my very low dose of now xanax. I took .l25mg of xanax at bedtime and was living alone. Married two other times in the interval.To meeting my current husband who was a pt for cocaine and alchohol abuse. I moved in with him , sold my house and said what the heck i marred and had three kids at age l8, 2l, and 27 and had an adolescent rebelliene long overdue. Drank a lot of beer and wine with him since he never stopped drinking. Married him and a week after that my thyroid went to hypothyroidism. And then the xanax and AD'd began. Vertigo, feeling wierd, more drinking, more xanax and l0mg of paxil first AD I'd ever taken. Was sick for 3months and then felt better. Wanted to help start the psychiatric unit in the hospital. So I had a reason to be happy when made a charge nurse on that unit. I was fine for around two years. Gave up paxil by chipping off parts of pill till none. Then my TSH went up to 22 and I was hospitalized for such high anxiety. They didn't know it was my thyroid till testing in psych hospital. So pdoc said hey lets try some other meds since your here. And that's where it all started. no AD'd have worked in 81/2yrs. And been on disability since then. Gone through menopause and chemistry changed. Now no AD seems to affect me at all . No feelings from them. I think I need to go back to work. Agoraphobia and fear of being alone and even getting up early are now part of my life. And the pdocs keep trying new meds that the pharmacitacal companies come out with. And it's getting expensive time consuming and I'm now much older without a lot of years left to work. So any answers to this thread are greatly appreciated. Yes I did try nortriptalline for only one day. But it was because I sensed meds were not the answer especially only sleeping. The only med I tried years ago that gave me energy and I felt good on was prozac 20mg but after 3 days it gave me back extreme anxiety attacks. The pdoc said to take it every three days it worked so dramatically for me. But in fear i said no. The question now is that on Dec 22 I will see a really good pdoc. So should I take meds or not? Fondly, Phillipa

 

hey phillipa!

Posted by med_empowered on November 17, 2005, at 2:12:07

In reply to Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 21:56:16

hey phillipa! OK, so I can't make babblemail work...I think my computer hates me. Email me (iheartmatador@yahoo.com) and let's chat.

Your life sounds so interesting! I can't realy tell you whether to take meds or not. I'm not, and sometimes I feel really bad but..maybe I need to feel bad sometimes? It helps me notice what's going on in my life and change **my life** to suit **me**, rather than trying to medicate myself into fit an idea of how I *should* be. Does that make sense?

I really don't see why a doc won't just give you some benzos. I mean, you don't seem likely to abuse medications (benzos aren't that addictive anyway). Besides, in my experience, the stuff you describe--early awakenings, intense panic, etc.--can be dealt with pretty quickly with benzos, and the side effects are usually pretty minimal. I honestly don't see what all the fuss is about. Antidepressants aren't all that great, really; if you look at the data, most of their effects are placebo..so, really, shrinks might want to consider placebo-therapy for depression. Itd be cheaper and there'd be fewer side effects.

Like I said, I dont know if you should take meds or not. I'd kind of lean towards keeping the meds minimal--as-needed sleep aids, as-needed benzos for panic attacks--so you can focus more on other treatments, like intensive talk therapy or group therapy. Maybe an interesting hobby? I've taken up writing again, and it helps...I get to write out my feelings both directly (journals) and kind of indirectly (fictional writing). Plus, it gives me something to focus my thoughts on, which is always nice.

Good luck!

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About

Posted by valene on November 17, 2005, at 7:37:13

In reply to Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About Med, posted by Phillipa on November 16, 2005, at 21:56:16

Dear Phillipa,
Have you checked out "Your Drug May Be Your Problem" by Dr. Peter Breggin? I highly recommend it.

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About

Posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2005, at 19:48:30

In reply to Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About, posted by valene on November 17, 2005, at 7:37:13

Hey thanks. And everyone else too. Med I will definitely E-mail you. Thanks again. Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About » Phillipa

Posted by Jedi on November 19, 2005, at 0:26:42

In reply to Re: Lurkers Please Come Out and Regulars too About, posted by Phillipa on November 17, 2005, at 19:48:30

Hi Phillipa,
In my opinion there are certain types of depression that will only respond to medications, and talk therapy is a waste of time with these. Of course some mild depression can and does respond to a good talk therapist. Too bad these therapists are few and far between.

My depression is endogenous. There is no real external cause. I've had many first cousins, aunts, and uncles who have died from suicide, drug addiction and alcoholism. It runs in both sides of my family.

Nardil saved my life. There is no amount of talk therapy that would have worked with my illness.
I am a lifer. The two times I've been off of Nardil, in the past nine years, have precipitated major depressive episodes. The dysthymia and anhedonia I suffer even while on Nardil, I try to augment with other meds.

So, I vote for medication. I just hope that our knowledge of the brain will produce additional medications to help all those who are truely treatment resistant. I have my doubts though, since the med that saved me is almost 50 years old.
Take care - good thread,
Jedi


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