Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 547042

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Re: NO, but every med affects everyone differently

Posted by DoYouKnowHim? on August 27, 2005, at 1:39:45

In reply to Re: I know they can be for me..., posted by wildcard on August 26, 2005, at 23:53:39

They calm me down.

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing? Phillipa

Posted by tecknohed on August 27, 2005, at 5:32:11

In reply to Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2005, at 19:27:34

I suppose I react oddly to alot of meds. But I actually find Valium somewhat mood-elevating. I feel calm yet talkative. When taken with Lofepramine (a noradrenergic med) its a very pro-social mix. I was on this combo when I first started living at a 'dry-house' to curb the initial social anxiety. Potentially addictive mind you! Just as well my doc limited my supply!

On the rare occasion when I've taken temazepam, I find that stimulating too, at least for the mind. I become very takative!

When I was prescribed chlordiazepoxide (Librium) for coming off alcohol, all I wanted to do was go for long walks! Though this may have been partly due to the 'withdrawal' effect from the alcohol (an over-reactive central nervous system - which if left untreated can lead to the DTs).

But I guess I am simply 'a bit odd' lol.

regards.

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 6:21:02

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing? Phillipa, posted by tecknohed on August 27, 2005, at 5:32:11

I find clonazepam depressing, kind of bit of a feeling of personal worthlesness.

Linkadge

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 6:22:10

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 6:21:02

That is when it is taken alone. If I take clonazepam with an AD, sometimes it helps it work better.


Linkadge

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by wildcard on August 27, 2005, at 10:34:56

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by linkadge on August 27, 2005, at 6:22:10

i'm back on effexor til i see my doc in two weeks and taking much less klonopin if any and i do feel better. i've also started looking into supplements that work well for a friend to increase energy so we'll see...thx again.

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Kon on August 27, 2005, at 12:32:29

In reply to Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2005, at 19:27:34

Work great for anxiety for myself and aren't at all depressing for me. Though I never had depression...just anxiety. I always wondered if benzos are more likely to cause depression in those who suffer from both anxiety and depression.

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by SandyWeb on August 27, 2005, at 15:26:57

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Kon on August 27, 2005, at 12:32:29

For me, Ativan rounds the edges when taken as needed.

But clonazepam stimulated me....helped me to be social....would yak your ear off (which is the reverse of my quiet self!).

Sandy

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Declan on August 27, 2005, at 15:33:56

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by SandyWeb on August 27, 2005, at 15:26:57

Depression's the rag bag, isn't it? It's a big category.

I just feel that when I use more benzos I feel worse.

Which is why I would be using more benzos to begin with.

So I try to use a little less than I otherwise might.

And when I go on my walking holiday and get away from this computer and the kids, I might be able to take less again.

Declan

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by 4WD on August 27, 2005, at 16:58:23

In reply to Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2005, at 19:27:34

The most depressed I've ever been in my life was after a period of several years of taking Ativan for sleep. I wasn't on any AD at the time. It was horrible and withdrawal was horrible.

I came off the Ativan and started imipramine at the same time. It was like waking up and seeing the world in color for the first time in years.

I can now take Klonopin okay but I use it very judiciously. .25 mg a day mostly.

Marsha

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by zeugma on August 28, 2005, at 5:55:22

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by 4WD on August 27, 2005, at 16:58:23

Constant anxiety is depressogenic. Clonazepam tones down the anxiety a little bit, making me less prone to anxiety-induced depression.

-z

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing? Kon

Posted by zeugma on August 28, 2005, at 6:03:43

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Kon on August 27, 2005, at 12:32:29

I always wondered if benzos are more likely to cause depression in those who suffer from both anxiety and depression>>

I have both anxiety and depression, and clonazepam has not induced depression, although other medications have.

Clonazepam has no intrinsic AD effect as far as I can tell, other than its prophylactic role in suppressing anxiety episodes that lead to depression. Buspirone on the other hand has a discernible AD effect, but a poor anxiolytic one.

-z

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing? Sonya

Posted by Mr.Scott on August 28, 2005, at 17:45:26

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Sonya on August 26, 2005, at 20:54:47

May I ask how you got through all that (depression,addiction)???

Scott

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Paulbwell on August 28, 2005, at 23:58:56

In reply to Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2005, at 19:27:34

> Just had a conversation with a friend and we wondered if you thought benzos were depressing or just relaxing. Thanks in advance for responses. Fondly, Phillipa

Hi Ya Phillipa,


Having spoken to 20+ Pharmacists it depends, if you are feeling low, and take Benz then they will lower your mood more, if manic they will lower Dopamine and even out mood.


"it all depends how you are feeling while taking benz" OK?

I'm on Benz, Stims, and Booze, often so it's complicated.

1 Pill takes you up, one takes you down, one keeps you numb eg: SSRIs


Cheers

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Jedi on August 29, 2005, at 3:08:47

In reply to Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2005, at 19:27:34

Hey Guys,
I take 1mg of clonazepam daily to augment 75-90mg of Nardil. I find it helps with my social and generalized anxiety. I have never had trouble in the past withdrawing the med when I didn't think I needed it. Nor have I had much of a tendency to escalate the dose, except when going through very stressful times. I find that at a constant dosage, clonazepam will soon lose it's sleep inducing side effect and I don't even really feel the medication. But it is still working on the anxiety. I believe that the long half-life of clonazepam makes it a better long term med than some of the shorter half-life benzodiazepines. I haven't noticed an increase in depression while on the med, but everyone is different. I believe that people with substance abuse potential should be very careful taking the benzos. They can be addicting for certain people.
Take care,
Jedi

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 20:53:32

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Jedi on August 29, 2005, at 3:08:47

"I believe that people with substance abuse potential should be very careful taking the benzos. They can be addicting for certain people.
Take care,"

Thats a given-Alcoholics wanna get outa it, and chomping on Benzos will help.

I took Clonaz for near 2 years(4-6mgs day) and found it VERY effective for panic, but it made me depressed, and have terrible, excess salivation, to the point where i would dribble down my chin :(. mmmmmm
Valium now and working on things.

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing? Paulbwell

Posted by Jedi on September 1, 2005, at 0:12:32

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Paulbwell on August 31, 2005, at 20:53:32

> I took Clonaz for near 2 years(4-6mgs day) and found it VERY effective for panic, but it made me depressed, and have terrible, excess salivation, to the point where i would dribble down my chin :(. mmmmmm
> Valium now and working on things.

Hi Paulbwell,
Here is an abstract of a Canadian study which recommends that for long term use of the highly potent benzodiazepines (e.g., alprazolam, clonazepam, and lorazepam) dosage should be limited to 2mg per day in long term use. I've been taking 1mg of clonazepam for social and generalized anxiety with no side effects. I realize of course that some doctors will use a much higher dose. However, I believe this is where the side effect problems come in. Also: dependence, rebound anxiety, memory impairment, and discontinuation syndrome become more of a problem at higher long term dosages.
Link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15078112&query_hl=3
J Clin Psychiatry. 2004;65 Suppl 5:7-12. Related
Issues in the clinical use of benzodiazepines: potency, withdrawal, and rebound.
Chouinard G.
Centre de Recherche Fernand Seguin, Psychopharmacologie, Departement de Psychiatrie, Universite de Montreal, Hopital Louis-Lafontaine, Montreal, Quebec, Canada. psychopharm.unit@mcgill.ca
...
" High-potency benzodiazepines have replaced low and medium potency benzodiazepines in all benzodiazepine clinical indications due to their greater therapeutic effects and rapid onset of action. Differences in distribution, elimination half-life, and rate of absorption are important considerations when choosing a high-potency benzodiazepine. Typically, a benzodiazepine with long distribution and elimination half-lives is preferred. A maximum dose of 2 mg/day of any of the high-potency benzodiazepines when given for more than 1 week is recommended. Although as a class benzodiazepines act rapidly and are well tolerated, their use presents clinical issues such as dependence, rebound anxiety, memory impairment, and discontinuation syndrome."
Take care,
Jedi

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Jedi on September 1, 2005, at 0:39:18

In reply to Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Phillipa on August 26, 2005, at 19:27:34

Hi guys,
It seems like many of the people here believe that the benzos are a depressing group of drugs. Of course there is some evidence of this. But many doctors will use clonazepam as an augmentation to SSRIs, tricyclics, and MAOIs. Here is an abstract of a Japanese study which suggests the benefits of augmentation with clonazepam in unipolar long-term depression.
Jedi

Link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=12166090&query_hl=11

1: Nihon Shinkei Seishin Yakurigaku Zasshi. 2002 Jun;22(3):97-101.

[Clonazepam in the treatment of protracted depression: a hundred-case report]

[Article in Japanese]

Morishita S.

Department of Psychiatry, Kawasaki Medical School, 577, Matsushima, Kurashiki 701-0192, Japan.

Clonazepam, which presently is recommended for the treatment of seizure disorders, has been reported to be useful as an adjunctive treatment for depression. The purpose of this paper was to examine the suitable adjunctive dose and the characteristics of clonazepam for the treatment of protracted depression. A hundred protracted depressive patients treated with clonazepam were studies by the retrospective method. A daily dose of 3.0 mg clonazepam as augmentation expressed high effectiveness (78.4%) on protracted depression. Most of the improved patients showed a rapid onset of action within two weeks. Gender, age, phase number, family history of psychosis, and clinical symptoms did not change the effectiveness of clonazepam treatment. A daily dose of at least 3.0 mg clonazepam as augmentation of ongoing antidepressant treatment should be considered for protracted depressive patients with suboptimal improvement. Unipolar depression was significantly more effective than bipolar depression on clonazepam treatment. The clear-cut difference in response to unipolar and bipolar depression suggests that the underlying abnormality in unipolar depression is not the same as that in bipolar depression. A continuance of clonazepam after improvement disturbed the recurrence of depression, and it seems that clonazepam augmentation has a preventive effect.

PMID: 12166090 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

 

Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?

Posted by Paulbwell on September 1, 2005, at 6:24:25

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Jedi on September 1, 2005, at 0:39:18

> Hi guys,
> It seems like many of the people here believe that the benzos are a depressing group of drugs. Of course there is some evidence of this. But many doctors will use clonazepam as an augmentation to SSRIs, tricyclics, and MAOIs. Here is an abstract of a Japanese study which suggests the benefits of augmentation with clonazepam in unipolar long-term depression.
> Jedi


Clonazepam Pharmaconetics:

3-hydroxy benzodiazepine:
BZD agonist
5-HT increase

Notice the 5-ht (Seratonin) release!!


I took Clonazepam for near 2 years 1-6mgs daily and like MANY others found it some what stimulating, BUT depressing (Very common).

Am on Diazepam 15-20mgs now and find it far less so, althought Ritalin and occasiuonal Alcohol may cloud the picture.

MANY DO FIND CLONAZEPAM CAUSES DEPRESSED MOOD AFTER A WHILE.-althought VERY effective for panic.


Cheers

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium

Posted by AndyR on September 4, 2005, at 15:50:49

In reply to Re: Are Benzodiazepines Depressing?, posted by Paulbwell on September 1, 2005, at 6:24:25

I recently moved to a new Psych. We talked about the the buzz and some of the hypomania I was getting from Xanax.(I did not really feel like myself)I mentioned in the past that when I was on Valium, I just felt more naturally relaxed. So we decided to switch from 2mgs of Xanax a day to 10-15mgs of Valium for the anxiety. After a few days, I noticed an inner agitation, a vague funny unsure feeling etc. Had trouble sleeping. Could it be that even though I am on a reasonable dose of Valium, I am feeling a withdrawal effect from having taken Xanax for so long? It has been very hard to bear. I want to try and stay with the Valium, until other diagnoses are ruled out, however, I think I may need to take Xanax in a tapering fashion for awhile. Xanax just has a different GAGanergic effect. Any thoughts or experiences appreciated.

Thanks

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium AndyR

Posted by Mr.Scott on September 5, 2005, at 0:38:06

In reply to Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium, posted by AndyR on September 4, 2005, at 15:50:49

According to my understanding .5mg of Xanax is equal to 10mg of Valium initially anyways until it accumulates.

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium

Posted by AndyR on September 5, 2005, at 11:49:45

In reply to Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium AndyR, posted by Mr.Scott on September 5, 2005, at 0:38:06

> According to my understanding .5mg of Xanax is equal to 10mg of Valium initially anyways until it accumulates.

> Although they are both Benzos. Xanax is unique in downregulating beta receptors etc. I don't know if you can really depend on equivalency "standards" to predict how to switch over. At least in my case, it has been difficult. Thanks

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium Mr.Scott

Posted by theo on September 5, 2005, at 22:39:11

In reply to Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium AndyR, posted by Mr.Scott on September 5, 2005, at 0:38:06

> According to my understanding .5mg of Xanax is equal to 10mg of Valium initially anyways until it accumulates.


.5mg Xanax = 5mg Valium
1.0mg Xanax = 10mg Valium

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium

Posted by Paulbwell on September 6, 2005, at 15:14:22

In reply to Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium, posted by linkadge on September 6, 2005, at 8:41:36

Having taken both, Xanax tended to play havoc with my moods, the up down, quick half life leadind to several emotions in hours ending with a nerve jangling hangover effect-begging for another dose, like when you wake up after drinking and have a "hair of the Dog" drink to calm the nerves and feel better.

Valium is FAR more even and subtle in it's effects-althought Xanax was more mood uplifting-hence why some people tend to escalate to higher doses and abuse it.


Cheers

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium Paulbwell

Posted by theo on September 8, 2005, at 22:53:47

In reply to Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium, posted by Paulbwell on September 6, 2005, at 15:14:22

> Having taken both, Xanax tended to play havoc with my moods, the up down, quick half life leadind to several emotions in hours ending with a nerve jangling hangover effect-begging for another dose, like when you wake up after drinking and have a "hair of the Dog" drink to calm the nerves and feel better.
>
> Valium is FAR more even and subtle in it's effects-althought Xanax was more mood uplifting-hence why some people tend to escalate to higher doses and abuse it.


NOT true with Xanax XR. It lasts a lot longer and is smooth.

 

Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium

Posted by Paulbwell on September 8, 2005, at 23:28:40

In reply to Re: Changing from Xanax to Valium Paulbwell, posted by theo on September 8, 2005, at 22:53:47

> NOT true with Xanax XR. It lasts a lot longer and is smooth.

Xanax XR is not available in my country, so IR it is, or in my case at the moment, is not


Cheers


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