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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by lushkins on July 30, 2005, at 10:03:52
Hi,
I have been withdrawing from remeron and have been having really bad insomnia, hopefully it is just rebound insomnia and not a the start of a slippery slope downhill. While the depression hasn't really returned the insomnia is really bad. This has happened every time after I had titrated the remeron down a little, the insomnia eventually cleared up after 3 weeks to a managable level where I would get 6 hrs sleep most nights with each new dose. But I have not really slept at all in 5 days so am I desperate to, it is as if I have forgotten how to sleep. So I have been prescribed this but I am worried about the side effects which may occur.
Especially the possible interaction with treatment of epilespy. I do not have epilepsy but I am taking lamictal so I was wondering if this would be an issue? As the panflet states this.
And there also may be a possibility that it may cause some depression, would this be likely to happen if I am taking it for no longer than a week?
Has anyone else taken this drug who was on the depressed side of things and had a worsening of the depression?
I only want to take this to get over this acute stage of the insomnia. After a while the remeron or zispen was not doing much to keep me asleep like at the start and was alo causing be to be angry and agitated. So hopefully it will clear up, but does anyone have any expereince with this drug?
Many thanks
Posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 12:01:46
In reply to zopiclone (sleep), posted by lushkins on July 30, 2005, at 10:03:52
Hi,
Zopiclone is very similar to eszopiclone (Lunesta). Search for the p-babble Lunesta posts for more info. The main difference is dose, zopiclone is given at 3.75mg or 7.5mg, usually 7.5mg for young adults.
>Especially the possible interaction with treatment of epilespy. I do not have epilepsy but I am taking lamictal so I was wondering if this would be an issue?
Zopiclone does not interact with Lamictal.
>And there also may be a possibility that it may cause some depression, would this be likely to happen if I am taking it for no longer than a week?
It's possible but unlikely. Getting a good night's sleep will probably make you feel better.
>I only want to take this to get over this acute stage of the insomnia.
Don't forget that zopiclone itself has withdrawal symptoms. Perhaps you could taper mirtazapine more gradually.
~Ed
Posted by lushkins on July 30, 2005, at 12:22:53
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep) » lushkins, posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 12:01:46
Cheers. when you say the zopiclone would have withdrawl symtoms would this still be the case after just a week of use and maybe just 5 days out of that week?
I am down to zero Zispen and am not really feeling down at all compared to the last time I tried to come of it which was without the lamictal. I was slowly titrating the Zispen down from 30mg to 15mg, but once on that dose I thought what the heck I will go to nothing. In hindsight probabily not a wise decision. But for me this is the best time to do this as I am out of Uni at the moment and just working at a crumby sainsbury's store so I am under very little stress apart from the insomnia.
Would you say this is more likely to just be the result of my body adjusting to the changes or is it more likely to be a return of the symptoms. Sorry if this is an inpossible hypothetical question to answer but I am just wondering your point of view/expereince on this or anyones for that matter
Hopefully it will clear up in time.
Many thanks
Posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 12:55:11
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep), posted by lushkins on July 30, 2005, at 12:22:53
Hello,
>....when you say the zopiclone would have withdrawl symtoms would this still be the case after just a week of use and maybe just 5 days out of that week?
Possibly. A friend of mine took zopiclone for about 5 days. He had mild withdrawal symptoms for a couple of days after stopping.
Why not treat your insomnia with a mini-dose of Zispin? A tiny piece of a tablet or a few sips of a SolTab dissolved in a glass of water might be sufficient.
~Ed
Posted by Tom Twilight on July 30, 2005, at 15:14:16
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep) » lushkins, posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 12:55:11
Hey Luskins
I really feel for you, I had nasty insomnia when I came of Mirtazapine
It might be an idea to use Zopiclone one night, and a sedating TCA like Amytriptaline the next, if you alternate them for a few nights I would imagine there would be less chance of addiction
Ed
Its scary hearing about your friend having withdrawals from Zopilcone after such a short period of use, I use Zopiclone twice a week, hope it doesn't happen to me
Posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 15:52:00
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep), posted by Tom Twilight on July 30, 2005, at 15:14:16
Hi Tom,
>I use Zopiclone twice a week, hope it doesn't happen to me.......
If you only use it twice a week, I think it's very unlikely that you'll run into problems.
>Its scary hearing about your friend having withdrawals from Zopilcone after such a short period of use.....
At least they only lasted for a couple of days. The main withdrawal symptom was nightmares.
Kind regards
~Ed
PS. If zopiclone gives you a nasty taste in your mouth you could try zolpidem instead.
Posted by lushkins on July 31, 2005, at 3:32:53
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep), posted by Tom Twilight on July 30, 2005, at 15:14:16
Well I took a tablet last night and slept a few hrs, maybe 5hrs which at the moment is nice. The sleep felt quite restful. I may just take it again tonight and then not the next night sort of thing for not much more than a week. Hopefully I will then be able to get "some natural" sleep without the zispen.
Tom how long did it eventually take to be able to get some sleep without the zispen on the nights when you do not take the sleeping table? and if you were able to sleep was the sleep of a deaent quality?
My aim if it is possible is to take as little medication as possible in order to live a satisfactory - goodish life with just the lamictal. But its fair to say that this is inpossible with the extent of insomnia expereinced lately.
Thanks for the idea ED-UK but I tried just taking a little zispen last time I tried to come of the zispen and it didn't work, I never really felt the zispen had any sedative effects after the first month. It helped some with my depression but it was not until I was put on the lamictal that I did feel good at times. But I was angry alot of the time, and have been sice taking zispen so I really want to get off this if poss, hopefully I will not need to take a conventinal AD, time will tell.
Thanks guys, it really helps. During the sleepless nights I find I feel really alone and agitated, which contributes just as much to the insomnia than the zispen withdrawl, I feel alot of this is in my head so to speak.
Thanks again.
Posted by ed_uk on July 31, 2005, at 7:09:04
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep), posted by lushkins on July 31, 2005, at 3:32:53
Hi!
>Well I took a tablet last night and slept a few hrs, maybe 5hrs which at the moment is nice. The sleep felt quite restful.
:-) 7.5mg?
~ed
Posted by alexandra_k on July 31, 2005, at 9:54:19
In reply to zopiclone (sleep), posted by lushkins on July 30, 2005, at 10:03:52
I used to take 2 per night for a number of years. Didn't seem to affect my depression but I found it next to impossible to sleep without them after a while...
I'm not sure that I can get these straight... There is Imovane and Zopiclone and Zo-tab. Over here zo-tab is fully subsidised but the nasty taste in the mouth in the morning was worst. Better with the imovane tabs but I remember they were a lot more expensive.
Anyway... I imagine that when you try to get a nights sleep without them that might be a bit tricky...
Can you get away with half a tablet?
Posted by lushkins on July 31, 2005, at 15:31:50
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep) » lushkins, posted by alexandra_k on July 31, 2005, at 9:54:19
Yeah I just took a 7.5mg. I may take your advice and take just half a pill and see if that helps. If I wake up early I could always take the other half. All I really need is 5hrs sleep and I am OK.
I did take tamazapam for a while during an earlier stage of withdrawal from the zispen (22.5mg - 15mg. That helped slightly but no more than this med. I had no trouble coming off that after over a week of use at 20mg, and slept more naturally afterwards. After a week of sleeping 5 - 6 hrs a night I decided to come off the zispen completely and this is where I am now.
So I hoping I know what to expect, although I would imagine 15mg to nothing is going to be a different kettle of fish.
But the last few days I have been yawning at night so perhaps that is a good sign, although my mind is still on overdrive.
I haven’t experienced the metallic taste that you talk about as of yet so that is good. But once it got to about 9am I noticed I was more anxious than usual, this off coarse could be to do with the lack off zispen, but now I am back to my usual anxiety level.
I think I may just take the tablet tonight and maybe tomorrow, and I will then see if I can sleep without it as I am worried about becoming dependant on another drug. But I think nothing will beat the insomnia of the zispen. While I think some of this is withdrawal I think rebound insomnia and mood (slightly) is the main cause, hopefully it is just rebound!!
I am also on lamictal which I have found activating ever since I started but it does help with my other problems.
This insomnia is reminiscent of when I tried to come of cannabis 3 yrs ago which although I was not a heavy smoker I did have a joint before bed each night. I think it’s in my head about I need a night cap to finish the day off more than anything, but alas the warm milk doesn't work for me.
Sorry if this post is a tad confusing I don't yet know how to quote, is it just a simple case of copy and pasting?
Thanks again your advise has been really helpful and reassuring.
Cheers
Posted by ed_uk on July 31, 2005, at 15:53:59
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep), posted by lushkins on July 31, 2005, at 15:31:50
Hi,
>I may take your advice and take just half a pill and see if that helps.
Good idea.
>I had no trouble coming off that after over a week of use at 20mg.......
I don't think you'll have any problems coming off zopiclone after a week of use then.
>I don't yet know how to quote, is it just a simple case of copy and pasting?
That's what I do. You can also choose to include the previous person's post in your reply.
Kind regards
~ed
Posted by alexandra_k on July 31, 2005, at 22:59:42
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep), posted by lushkins on July 31, 2005, at 15:31:50
> I did take tamazapam for a while during an earlier stage of withdrawal from the zispen (22.5mg - 15mg. That helped slightly but no more than this med. I had no trouble coming off that after over a week of use at 20mg, and slept more naturally afterwards. After a week of sleeping 5 - 6 hrs a night I decided to come off the zispen completely and this is where I am now.
WOW! I am impressed. I like those a little too much ;-) Ended up developing a benzo addiction so I am very wary of those now...
> I haven’t experienced the metallic taste that you talk about as of yet so that is good. But once it got to about 9am I noticed I was more anxious than usual, this off coarse could be to do with the lack off zispen, but now I am back to my usual anxiety level.
Okay. I don't think I noticed anxiety as a side-affect...
> This insomnia is reminiscent of when I tried to come of cannabis 3 yrs ago which although I was not a heavy smoker I did have a joint before bed each night. I think it’s in my head about I need a night cap to finish the day off more than anything, but alas the warm milk doesn't work for me.
No, the warm milk doesn't work for me either. I've actually taken to a little mj as a sleeping aid. Wont touch Imovane now after 2 tablets a night for 4 years...
Take care.
Posted by Emma Louise Osset on September 27, 2006, at 18:56:18
In reply to Re: zopiclone (sleep) » Tom Twilight, posted by ed_uk on July 30, 2005, at 15:52:00
i agree with the nightmare part bu if you force yourself awake you get a hell of a buzz!!!!!
This is the end of the thread.
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