Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 529218

Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

preventing nardil poopout

Posted by bigcat on July 17, 2005, at 18:46:30

Nardil works magic for me for a few weeks, then always poops out. it's nearly impossible to live comfortably knowing the life I'm missing out on. I have no personality whatsoever, and feel completely disconnected with life in general.

Besides relieving my depression, the nardil gives me acess to my brain. I become articulate, insightful, funny, animated, creative, and confident in conversation. I tried adding dexedrine one time to the nardil and that did seem to help, but i was a bit hypomanic, and I feared that I would keep needing to up the dexedrine dose to keep it working.

After reading this board for a while, it seems this is a common problem with nardil, and I was just wondering if anyone had found a viable solution. Oh, in addition, after maybe five unsucessful trials of Marplan, it eventually kicked in wonderfully as well, but made me hypomanic for a few weeks and then faded on me.

I've tried the parnate many times (as well as the selegeline and moclobomide) to no avail. Are there any meds out there which seem to mimick the maoi effect? SSRI's do nothing for me, so I'm thinking of a tricyclic. When I was trying this group I often bailed out on the trials early because they all seemed to make me much worse at first, but possibly if i had stuck with them I could have achieved some relief. I've also considered trying Effexor again, but I remember the withdrawal being the worst experience of my life.

As far as the nardil/dexedrine combo is concerned, my pdoc was speculating that that the maois have amphetamine properties so a combination might be the ticket. I also read somewhere about wellbutrin and nardil being a possibility. Sorry for the ramble, but i'm increasingly desperate as my life can't even get off the ground until I overcome this devastating illness. thanks in advance...

 

Re: preventing nardil poopout

Posted by SLS on July 17, 2005, at 19:57:13

In reply to preventing nardil poopout, posted by bigcat on July 17, 2005, at 18:46:30

It sounds as if you have signs of bipolarity as hypomania has been triggered by medication. One avenue that I think is worth exploring for you is to use mood stabilizers in combination with Nardil. The ones that I think make the most sense to pursue are lithium, Lamictal, and Trileptal.


- Scott

 

Re: preventing nardil poopout

Posted by willyee on July 17, 2005, at 21:23:56

In reply to preventing nardil poopout, posted by bigcat on July 17, 2005, at 18:46:30

You might want to look into a few options.First the wellbutrin route,which is adding a dopamine medication to try and stimulate the med.Modfanil although expensive can be a potent dopamine med,*should* be safe with nardil.You also can try and i say this in all sincereity,liq deprenyl in small doses.There has been a few people who added liq deprenyl to nardil.

Carbergoline is another dopamine med that i know a user or two has had success in using in combo with nardil.Then you also have inexpensive pure caffiene pills,such as vivarin in the states,caffiene pills usualy come in 100 mg and that might be something to look into.

Last the nardil now is of newer formulation,as i told ace there is a huge debate over the effecivness of this new formualtion.One thing they have found to be of great help is to insert two crushed nardil tabs into ENCENTRIC coated tablets,this is to A give the med a more slow xr type of effect,as well as simply help the body absorb it more.Many veterans of the med do not beleive the "new" nardil is even close to being as effective as the old,m&m stlye nardil of a few years back.

Finaly there a very inexpensive herb called buperine by source naturals,this herb aids in the bioavaialbility of herbs,supplements,vitamins/nutrients/and of course medications.

A simple google search can find u a source for it,as well as go into detail to how it does so.Appearently it can increase the absorbotion or just about anything u take sometimes by 100 percent.

 

Re: preventing nardil poopout

Posted by Declan on July 17, 2005, at 22:02:16

In reply to preventing nardil poopout, posted by bigcat on July 17, 2005, at 18:46:30

Nardil gives me acess to my brain. Hey, I like that.
So Nardil stopped working in a few weeks? I don't have a clue of course, but anyway I'd be taking the right amino acids in the right doses with the vitamin cofactors, I forget but B6, C, magnesium is it, anyway the ones neccessary for your production of various neurotranmitters and whatever else. Someone here said that made a difference to his Parnate.
On what Scott said....If I took 30mg Parnate I'd be hypomanic, but I'm sure I'm not bipolar, although I could probably do with a mood stabilizer. But wouldn't any normal person go hypomanic on heaps of a MAOI?
O yeah, what was the problem for Parnate with you?
Declan

 

Re: preventing nardil poopout

Posted by SLS on July 18, 2005, at 0:52:00

In reply to Re: preventing nardil poopout, posted by Declan on July 17, 2005, at 22:02:16

> But wouldn't any normal person go hypomanic on heaps of a MAOI?

This is a source of continual debate. My only experiences with mania occurred in association with medication. I have never had a spontaneous manic episode. Yet, the NIMH classified me as being bipolar over ten years ago. More recently, one doctor I consulted with labelled me bipolar I while another labelled me unipolar with drug-induced manias. *Because my depression presents with features common to bipolar depression, and that I was once an ultra-rapid cycler with a period of 11 days, I am inclined to label myself bipolar.

I think there is some merit to the concepts of "soft bipolarity" and "bipolar spectrum", in which any expression of mania indicates a bipolar diathesis. In addition, the coming version of the DSM will label as bipolar III as chronic depression with medication-induced manias.

For anyone who experiences manias only upon medication, I would at some point attack the illness as if it were bipolar and introduce mood-stabilizers along with antidepressants. I experience some mild relief of depression from Lamictal and Trileptal. Lithium makes me mildly worse and does little to treat my manias. Depakote is a powerful antimanic for me, but is neutral with regard to depression, although it has sometimes made me feel worse. Zyprexa has shown itself to be an even more potent antimanic than Depakote while exerting some antidepressant effect.

* Bipolar depression basically presents as atypical depression without mood reactivity and more psychomotor retardation.


- Scott

 

Re: No More Nardil Poopout Please

Posted by bigcat on July 24, 2005, at 12:02:38

In reply to Re: preventing nardil poopout, posted by willyee on July 17, 2005, at 21:23:56

thanks for all who replied. I believe my hypomanic episode may have had more to do with the enthusiasm of finally being thrown out of a deep depression and ready to attack life with vigor. The only time I've had even the slightest mania has been drup induced.

The parnate stimulated me such that sleep was a nightmatre, but otherwise it had no effects on my mood. I'm convinced that nardil along with augmenting agents is the only way to go, but I also find it odd (as a sidenote) that I didn't respond to Marplan on five previous trialas, and then on the sixth, yeeeehaw, I became a human being, no longer a zombie- but that pooped out as well after four weeks.

I've looked at the nardil poopout from many angles. I think the Nardil and dexedrine might be a good possiblility, but this time I'll try it with the lamictal or lithium combination. I remember with the dex, I'd feel restless and jittery with no antidepresant effects at first, but when the dose got higher(70+ mgs), I had a beutiful, calming, and warm response. I was very coordinated, focused, and capable. I could manange six things at once in the restaurant kitchen and I enjoyed helping and showing affection to other people. And I've never been so creative in my life on the Nardil/dexedrine combo. I could have strummed my guitar till the end of existance.

The hypomanic epsode which brought me off the nardil/dex could have easily been prevented with something like lamictal (and laying off marijuana at the time), and I probably wouldn't be writing this right now had I known the need for a mood stabilizer before.

Anyway, my depression has been awful, I've tried every single ad, mood stabilizer, antipsychotic, stumulant,and tranquilizer out there, even ECT to no avail. but if you saw me on the nardil/dex you wouldn't know I had a care in the the world. So the point of this ramble is that I can't be sure that my new pdoc will be willing to bring me up to the therpuetic dosages of nardil (90mg) with the dex 80mg). I would like to add, that I'm extremely med tolerant and have had mamouth doses of all the ad's I've tried, and not goten any severe side effects, and I'm not scared to take risks with high dosing comboes either.

So if anyone has any additional information, or otions to get the nardil working and keep working I'd greatly appreciate the knowledge. Thanks for making it through this post, and peace to all.

 

Nardil and Dex

Posted by Declan on July 24, 2005, at 18:15:05

In reply to Re: No More Nardil Poopout Please, posted by bigcat on July 24, 2005, at 12:02:38

70 mgs of Dex with Nardil. I thought that would give you a stroke or something. 70mgs of Dex on its own would be *quite* an experience for me. No great rise in BP for you?
Declan

 

Re: Nardil and Dex- Save Me!!

Posted by bigcat on July 25, 2005, at 9:15:39

In reply to Nardil and Dex, posted by Declan on July 24, 2005, at 18:15:05

I'm very med tolerant and have been known to double the PDR's recommended doses and felt nothing, not even serious side effects. With the dexedrine, 20-30mg's made me jumpy, jittery, kina' twitchy, but then when it was bumped up highr, I experinced the calmest peace I've ever know.

My mind stopped onbsessing, was slow and clairvoyant, lost the anxiety, and for the first time I felt love and the beautiful experience of sharing it. It made me believe that if an AD can get you out of a deep dark hole, you CAN take it the rest of the way. Earlier I thought meds alone could save and continue to save me.

I am worried that the dex will start becoming ineffective and that raising the dose won't help. I'm currently looking into herbs and some unusual combinations to keep the damn nardil working. My life can't start until i'm in remission. I'm paralyzed at this point. I greatly appreciate any suggestions and the advice of those before.

**I might also add that you cannot imagine the difference between depression and remission in my experience. It is such a profound difference to be considerd miraculous. From a 1 to a 10, and even more so. It's astonishing, stunning, and difficult to believe. Thanks again......

 

Nardil, herbs and unusual combinations

Posted by Declan on July 25, 2005, at 14:37:52

In reply to Re: Nardil and Dex- Save Me!!, posted by bigcat on July 25, 2005, at 9:15:39

Hey bigcat
What are the herbs and unusual combinations?
Your response to amphetamine was interesting too.
Declan

 

Re: Nardil and Dex

Posted by bigcat on July 25, 2005, at 22:05:42

In reply to Nardil and Dex, posted by Declan on July 24, 2005, at 18:15:05

If the Nardil with Dexedrine andlamical andpossibly seroquel doesn't do it, I'm thinking of some long-shots, but I'll try anything at this point, camel's piss included. Here they are:

-Wellbutrin (it is known to have stimulating effects, and Nardil breaks down into amphetamines, and we know what Dexedrine is).
-Adding eldepryl and/or moclobomide to nardil

(I'm usually a cynic about the herbal route, but the east does have the human mind mapped out a bit better than we, so...)

-Ginseng
-Ginko
-Hange-shashin
-caffeine pills (doubtful)
-Various antibiotics which have been reported to have somne AD effect

I must stress that I'm not out for a thrill. I have tried every AD on the market in this country, Canada, and Germany, and I've had 16 ECT tretaments as well. The Nardil and Dexedrine gave me peace and clarity, and may have continued to do so had I been on amood stabilizer and frightened my doctor into taking me off these meds when I became hypomanic.

It's devestating to have a brief remission, 'cause now I know what I'm missing out on. I need to break through. All my love is locked away. Thanks Declan and others who have responded. -peace to all-

 

Redirect: herbs

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 25, 2005, at 23:34:16

In reply to Nardil, herbs and unusual combinations, posted by Declan on July 25, 2005, at 14:37:52

> What are the herbs and unusual combinations?

Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding herbs to Psycho-Babble Alternative. Here's a link:

http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20050713/msgs/533561.html

Thanks,

Bob


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