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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 15 to 39 of 49. Go back in thread:
Posted by mworkman on July 7, 2005, at 11:11:28
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 6, 2005, at 11:35:24
Still no side effects or help. I just saw the doctor and am going to take 30 mg for a week then 45 mg for about three days till I see the doctor again.
Posted by Declan on July 8, 2005, at 18:04:35
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 6, 2005, at 11:35:24
As you got tired in the day and were unable to sleep at night it sounds like it's starting to work. Since the therapeutic window is so narrow with ADs, I'd be impressed with small real improvements. I'd really like to know what the minimum effective dose of Nardil is, whatever we take effective to mean.
Declan
Posted by mworkman on July 9, 2005, at 13:56:49
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by Declan on July 8, 2005, at 18:04:35
I've been at 30 mg right now. The daytime tiredness is less. I sleep less now from 9 hours down to about 6-7 now. I am noticingI am more happier. I am also less anxious, a general calm. It hasn't helped the social anxiety any yet. So, it is starting to work some. The biggest difference is in mood. More happier. I am having alcohol cravings, which is wierd because a few months ago I drank a lot(not like an alcoholic or anything), but then hardly any in the last 3-4 months.
Posted by mworkman on July 9, 2005, at 14:19:38
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by Declan on July 8, 2005, at 18:04:35
I am going to put a journal here if you want to see how I'm doing on nardil:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/mworkman/
Posted by ed_uk on July 10, 2005, at 7:26:18
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 9, 2005, at 14:19:38
Hi!
It's probably too early for it to be helping your social phobia yet. Anyway, you're still on a low dose. There's a good chance that it will help a lot but it can take a while to 'kick in'. Please post your Nardil diary on babble, many people will be interested - they might forget the link to your livejournal diary.
Kind regards,
Ed
Posted by mworkman on July 10, 2005, at 14:09:49
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 9, 2005, at 13:56:49
Still on 30 mg. No negative effects currently. I am noticing anorxia(sp) while on the drug, though.
Posted by tecknohed on July 11, 2005, at 19:19:02
In reply to 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 5, 2005, at 15:07:22
> Are the diet restrictions the same at 15 mg as say 60 mg. I just took my first 15 mg pill yesterday and ate chocolate poptarts, single sliced sandwich cheese, beer soaked brauts(sp), ribs with bbq sauce(don't know how fresh the meat was) and a lot of pop with caffine. I also had about half a beer, but haven't been in the drinking mood. None of this has caused a reaction yet. Will I still be able to do this as I higher the dose. Were those even "restricted" foods?
Hi there! Keep with the Nardil, IT WILL Kick in good and proper when it's ready.
I've been on it now for 19 months, mainly for social anxiety with depression and when it kicks in You'll be imazed! (I hope). Please follow this one word of advice though, if you want to get the best from it and feel the full effects: give up the caffien right now! Believe me, it'll dull any calming effects, as well as the full anti- social phobia effects. Your moods may not be as stable as Nardil can make them and worst of all, eventually you'll fell completely drained and hypersensitive to the Nardil.
Of course everyones different but after 19 months I'm now coming off the Nardil as I feel I've ruined my Nardil experience with my excessive caffien intake.
My next step is Marplan (Isocarboxazid) but I DO believe I could have stayed on Nardil indefinitely had I not spoilt it the way I did. I'll always love Nardil- maybe we'll meet again some day (?).....
Sorry to go on. Good luck with it and ask me anything you like.
tecknohed.
(P.S. Nearly off Nardil now and feeling like sh*t. I start Marplan in about 14 days time)
Posted by 4WD on July 11, 2005, at 21:59:09
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet » mworkman, posted by tecknohed on July 11, 2005, at 19:19:02
> Hi there! Keep with the Nardil, IT WILL Kick in good and proper when it's ready.
> I've been on it now for 19 months, mainly for social anxiety with depression and when it kicks in You'll be imazed! (I hope). Please follow this one word of advice though, if you want to get the best from it and feel the full effects: give up the caffien right now! Believe me, it'll dull any calming effects, as well as the full anti- social phobia effects. Your moods may not be as stable as Nardil can make them and worst of all, eventually you'll fell completely drained and hypersensitive to the Nardil.
> Of course everyones different but after 19 months I'm now coming off the Nardil as I feel I've ruined my Nardil experience with my excessive caffien intake.
> My next step is Marplan (Isocarboxazid) but I DO believe I could have stayed on Nardil indefinitely had I not spoilt it the way I did. I'll always love Nardil- maybe we'll meet again some day (?).....
> Sorry to go on. Good luck with it and ask me anything you like.
> tecknohed.
> (P.S. Nearly off Nardil now and feeling like sh*t. I start Marplan in about 14 days time)
>
>
>Hi. How much caffeine were you getting? Could you tell it was affecting you in that way at the time? I mean did you find out later that the caffeine caused the Nardil not to work as well? I had never heard this.
I'm also curious about the effects on appetite and weight. Were you very hungry and/or did you gain weight?
THanks,
Marsha
Posted by 4WD on July 11, 2005, at 22:01:35
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 10, 2005, at 14:09:49
> Still on 30 mg. No negative effects currently. I am noticing anorxia(sp) while on the drug, though.
It's not making you hungry? I thought it was famous for that. And no insomnia? That's great. That's why I've never tried it. The appetite and the insomnia scare me. What about sexual side effects? Any dry mouth? I'm very happy for you that it is starting to work. I'm going to go look at the site you posted.
Keep it up!
Marsha
Posted by mworkman on July 12, 2005, at 21:22:47
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by 4WD on July 11, 2005, at 22:01:35
> > Still on 30 mg. No negative effects currently. I am noticing anorxia(sp) while on the drug, though.
>
> It's not making you hungry? I thought it was famous for that. And no insomnia? That's great. That's why I've never tried it. The appetite and the insomnia scare me. What about sexual side effects? Any dry mouth? I'm very happy for you that it is starting to work. I'm going to go look at the site you posted.
>
> Keep it up!
>
> Marsha
It isn't making me hungery at all. I do have some isominia(sp) some nights. My weight has pretty much stayed the same.
Posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 1:02:56
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 12, 2005, at 21:22:47
Hey I am new to this board but not new to depression. I recently started nardil as well. I am up to 45 mg per day now after about two weeks, and I think i am starting to feel some effects from it (knock on wood). This would more or less be a first for me as I am very TRD... anyway, would be happy to answer any questions as this board is partially what inspired me to try nardil in the first place.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 1:56:05
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 9, 2005, at 14:19:38
> I am going to put a journal here if you want to see how I'm doing on nardil:
> http://www.livejournal.com/users/mworkman/Mr. Workman, thank you for taking the time to post your journal for us to see. Please add to it daily, and thanks again! I'll be checking it periodically.
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:07:57
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 1:02:56
> Hey I am new to this board but not new to depression. I recently started nardil as well. I am up to 45 mg per day now after about two weeks, and I think i am starting to feel some effects from it (knock on wood). This would more or less be a first for me as I am very TRD... anyway, would be happy to answer any questions as this board is partially what inspired me to try nardil in the first place.
Saltate,
I'll take you up on your offer. Any weight gain? Daytime sleepiness? Sexual dysfunction (e.g.; delayed orgasm, erectile dysfunction -- obviously male only question, diminished libido, etc)?
Thanks!
-- Ron
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:47:27
In reply to Re: 15mg nardil diet » Phillipa, posted by Ilene on July 5, 2005, at 21:40:39
Ilene,
> I'm very depressed, but I don't think about suicide every day like I used to.
I'm very sorry for your pain.
> I try to keep myself busy, but I don't work and don't have many friends.
How can I help you, Ilene? For starters, I could be your friend! :-)
What are your depression symptoms?
What is your dx?
What are your current meds and dosages?
> The weather is gloomy, too. We don't see the sun very often in summer.
Do you live down under? The reason I ask is that I live in a western mountain state in the US and the sun goes away in the winter much more than it does in the summer.
-- Ron
BP II and OCPD
600 mg/day Lithobid
900 mg/day Trileptal
50 mg/day Lamictal
2.5 mg/day Deprenyl (as tx for atypical depression)
Posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 3:09:12
In reply to Questions: Nardil Side Effects » saltate, posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:07:57
>
> Saltate,
>
> I'll take you up on your offer. Any weight gain? Daytime sleepiness? Sexual dysfunction (e.g.; delayed orgasm, erectile dysfunction -- obviously male only question, diminished libido, etc)?
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Ron
>
>
Ok, well let me qualify this by saying that it has only been about two weeks, but so far, very few side effects. I would say sex has actually somewhat improved, although i wasn't enjoying it whatsoever before. Delayed orgasm is something that has occurred but i don't see that as necessarily being a negative. As far as the sleep thing, it is hard to say because i am the sort of person who stays up all night and is tired during the day anyway, so i cant really say about that. I haven't noticed any other side effects, other then the occasional feeling of something going on in my head, like my brain is reordering itself or something. The improvement is gradual but i have been noticing it and i am one who obsessivley analyzes my mind state all the time.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 16:17:47
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 3:09:12
Posted by Ilene on July 14, 2005, at 19:22:39
In reply to The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 14, 2005, at 2:47:27
>
> How can I help you, Ilene? For starters, I could be your friend! :-)
>See you over on Social!
> What are your depression symptoms?
>I feel unmotivated, slowed down, stupid, uninterested and uninteresting, I sleep a lot, I think about suicide off and on.
> What is your dx?
>Unipolar depression.
> What are your current meds and dosages?
Prozac 60 mg, soon to go up to 80 mg, Abilify 10 mg, down from 20, Cytomel 1 microgram. I used to take Neurontin but went off it when I read it was linked to suicide.
>
> > The weather is gloomy, too. We don't see the sun very often in summer.
>
> Do you live down under? The reason I ask is that I live in a western mountain state in the US and the sun goes away in the winter much more than it does in the summer.
>No, I live on the west side of San Francisco. We get a lot of summer fog. It gets sucked in through the Golden Gate. Pretty to look at when you're out of it, gloomy when you're in it.
I.
Posted by 4WD on July 14, 2005, at 22:33:24
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 3:09:12
>
> >
> > Saltate,
> >
> > I'll take you up on your offer. Any weight gain? Daytime sleepiness? Sexual dysfunction (e.g.; delayed orgasm, erectile dysfunction -- obviously male only question, diminished libido, etc)?
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > -- Ron
> >
> >
> Ok, well let me qualify this by saying that it has only been about two weeks, but so far, very few side effects. I would say sex has actually somewhat improved, although i wasn't enjoying it whatsoever before. Delayed orgasm is something that has occurred but i don't see that as necessarily being a negative. As far as the sleep thing, it is hard to say because i am the sort of person who stays up all night and is tired during the day anyway, so i cant really say about that. I haven't noticed any other side effects, other then the occasional feeling of something going on in my head, like my brain is reordering itself or something. The improvement is gradual but i have been noticing it and i am one who obsessivley analyzes my mind state all the time.
>
>
Hi Saltate,Have you noticed being hungrier than usual? Have you gained any weight?
Have you had any unusual (for you) problems falling asleep?
Nardil is on my list of meds to try, so I'm very curious about side effects.
Thanks,
Marsha
Posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 22:41:46
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects » saltate, posted by 4WD on July 14, 2005, at 22:33:24
Hungrier, no. I've never been a big eater, I often have to remind myself to eat. I guess I would have to say I have had some difficulty falling asleep, but my sleeping has always been extremely erratic. Its not unusual for me to be totally nocturnal for periods (going to sleep at 8, 9, 10 in the morning)> Hi Saltate,
>
> Have you noticed being hungrier than usual? Have you gained any weight?
>
> Have you had any unusual (for you) problems falling asleep?
>
> Nardil is on my list of meds to try, so I'm very curious about side effects.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Marsha
>
Posted by 4WD on July 14, 2005, at 23:16:17
In reply to Re: Questions: Nardil Side Effects, posted by saltate on July 14, 2005, at 22:41:46
Posted by mworkman on July 15, 2005, at 9:44:04
In reply to 15mg nardil diet, posted by mworkman on July 5, 2005, at 15:07:22
I am now on 45 mg. This will be my third day of 45. I still am not noticing any side effects. Nardil seems to be milder than any ssri I have taken. They all made me tired all the time and sweat(sp?) a lot. This hasn't yet. Maybe when I hit 60 mg I will get the side effects. I am starting to notice it is helping with both anxiety and depression. A week ago I might have said it was a placebo effect, but now I can tell it is the pill. So far it seems to be working out great. I have lost about 5 pounds since I have been on it(like 3 weeks now). I have been trying to eat better and exercise more, but the nardil doesn't seem to be causing any food cravings, if anything it is the oppsite.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 14:31:43
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by Ilene on July 14, 2005, at 19:22:39
Ilene,
> > How can I help you, Ilene? For starters, I could be your friend! :-)
> See you over on Social!I don't make it over there. I stick to this board and Admin. As an aside, I may have to leave PB soon, but I want to follow up with your first. If I dissappear, feel free to contact me via babblemail.
> > What are your depression symptoms?
> I feel unmotivated, slowed down, stupid, uninterested and uninteresting, I sleep a lot, I think about suicide off and on.I'm BP II and my depressive phase is the atypical variety. Your depression sounds exactly like mine.
For me, my atypical depression seems to have dopaminergic roots. I'm six weeks into a trial of very low dosage Selegiline. It's too early in the trial to proclaim victory, but so far, I'm getting good results. It's taken me a while to find the best dosage, but I think I'm onto something. Have you every looked into the dopaminergic tx approach?
> > What is your dx?
> Unipolar depression.No cycling at all, correct? Never any hypomania, right?
> > What are your current meds and dosages?> Prozac 60 mg, soon to go up to 80 mg, Abilify 10 mg, down from 20, Cytomel 1 microgram. I used to take Neurontin but went off it when I read it was linked to suicide.
I wonder if you are experiencing SSRI Induced Apathy. Raising serotonin levels with an SSRI can, in some cases, lower dopamine levels resulting in apathy, low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, etc. Does the Abilify reduce your apathy at all?
Have you ever tried adding a pstim (e.g.; Adderall XR, Concerta, Provigil, etc) or an MAOI-b like Selegiline? If you've never added a dopaminergic medication to your cocktail, I'd be curious to see what it would do for you.
-- Ron
BP II and OCPD
600 mg/day Lithobid
900 mg/day Trileptal
50 mg/day Lamictal
2.5 mg/day Selegiline <brand name Deprenyl> (as tx for atypical depression)
Posted by ed_uk on July 15, 2005, at 14:47:39
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 14:31:43
Hi Ron,
>As an aside, I may have to leave PB soon.......
:-( Why?
~Ed
Posted by Ilene on July 15, 2005, at 15:32:15
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ilene, posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 14:31:43
> I don't make it over there. I stick to this board and Admin. As an aside, I may have to leave PB soon, but I want to follow up with your first. If I dissappear, feel free to contact me via babblemail.
>Sorry you might have to leave.
> For me, my atypical depression seems to have dopaminergic roots. I'm six weeks into a trial of very low dosage Selegiline. It's too early in the trial to proclaim victory, but so far, I'm getting good results. It's taken me a while to find the best dosage, but I think I'm onto something. Have you every looked into the dopaminergic tx approach?
>I'm not sure. I've tried a lot of drugs.
> > > What is your dx?
>
> > Unipolar depression.
>
> No cycling at all, correct? Never any hypomania, right?
>No cycling/hypomania.
> I wonder if you are experiencing SSRI Induced Apathy. Raising serotonin levels with an SSRI can, in some cases, lower dopamine levels resulting in apathy, low motivation, anergy, anhedonia, etc. Does the Abilify reduce your apathy at all?
>I actually feel a little better now than before I started the Prozac. Besides, Prozac was one of the only two drugs that ever worked for me. The other was desipramine. The Abilify doesn't do a thing.
> Have you ever tried adding a pstim (e.g.; Adderall XR, Concerta, Provigil, etc) or an MAOI-b like Selegiline? If you've never added a dopaminergic medication to your cocktail, I'd be curious to see what it would do for you.
>I tried Provigil and one of the amphetamine types; I think it was dexedrine. I used to be on Marplan; I don't know if it's an MAOI-b or not.
I.
Posted by Ron Hill on July 15, 2005, at 15:47:18
In reply to Re: The Pain of Treatment Resistant Depression » Ron Hill, posted by ed_uk on July 15, 2005, at 14:47:39
Ed,
You and I have not talked much in the past, but just so you know, for quite some time I've had you on my list of "Smart and Well Informed People at PB". You know a lot about p-meds and I've always found your posts to be credible.
-- Ron
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