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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by TamaraJ on July 11, 2005, at 20:39:04
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 19:04:58
Maybe with the right med, you would only have to take one. Might that be a possibility? I know there are doctors out there who don't appreciate the impact meds can have on a person's life. It's true that medicatition does help a lot of people, but it's also true that continued side effects have a negative effect on a person's quality of life. Sometimes pdocs don't, or unwilling to, recognize that the trade-offs can sometimes end up negating to some degree the positive work the meds are doing.
I know you have been through this before, but can you think about which AD you were on that provided you with the most relief, with the least debilitating side effects. Maybe you could start there, to see if you can get some relief. Also, I am a bit concerned about the problems you have been having with your walking. Have you raised this with your family doctor? Maybe you should be insisting that you be referred to a neuropsychologist or something to get that checked out.
I know that there are a lot of unfeeling or impatient pdocs out there, and that is more than unfortunate for those in need. I was very lucky because my family knows the pdoc she referred me to both professionally and personally, and has a lot of respect for him.
I hope you can find something to give you some measure of relief, without it interfering with your quality of life.
Tamara
> It comes and goes. I quit meds becasue I was fed up. Fed up with taking a bunch of stuff that makes a lot of things worse.
>
> Its like the doctors don't think that I have a life to live. They think its okay that the meds interfere with every aspect of my life so long as they help the depression.
>
> I need for somebody to take other things into account, and no doctor seems to want to do this.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
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>
>
Posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 20:52:51
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on July 11, 2005, at 20:39:04
I know what you are saying, but that kind of help is out of my reach.
I am sorry I give up so easily but I just keeping hitting walls.
My doctor doesn't listen so nothing gets done.
Linkadge
Posted by Declan on July 11, 2005, at 20:56:12
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on July 11, 2005, at 20:39:04
Link
When you took Parnate what was the dose you were on? Do you think you could find a doseage of it that wasn't too intense, emotionally speaking, and that did the trick?
And, of course, you deserve to have a doctor to explore therapeutic options with.
Declan
Posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:05:28
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by Declan on July 11, 2005, at 20:56:12
I was on 40mg. The doctor I'm with now says that he doesn't believe in useing the "older ones"
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:06:28
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:05:28
Sometimes I feel that I need to attempt suicide for anyone to give me some quality care.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:08:41
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:06:28
Althought I am not at that stage yet, but thats what I feel.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on July 11, 2005, at 21:13:12
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:08:41
Link, And I was so happy you were doing well. A lot of babblers are fed up with meds and pdocs. Don't let yourself slip into suicidal thoughts. Keep working that nightshift. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by TamaraJ on July 11, 2005, at 21:14:07
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:05:28
OMG, that is unbelievable!! Sorry, but does he not believe in people getting relief from the right medication? I know you are demoralized, and I don't blame you. Is there any way, any way at all, that your family doctor would prescribe Parnate for you? Can you call around to other pdocs to see if any are taking new patients, and find out what their approaches are in terms of treatment options, then go see the one that seems to be the most progressive and willing to actually effectively treat a patient. Or, perhaps march right in to your current pdocs office, with some support (perhaps your dad?) and tell him that Parnate worked for you in the past, and you can't go on with inadequate treatment any longer, so you want to be put back on Parnate.
I am sorry, Link, that you are having to go through this. People should not have to beg for adequate treatment. It is just not right.
Tamara
> I was on 40mg. The doctor I'm with now says that he doesn't believe in useing the "older ones"
>
> Linkadge
Posted by SLS on July 11, 2005, at 21:35:55
In reply to sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 16:56:52
If you were to treat someone with rapid-cycling bipolar disorder and comorbid ADD, what would you suggest?
- Scott
Posted by TamaraJ on July 11, 2005, at 21:42:45
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:06:28
No, Link, please don't do that.
I know this may sound crazy, but what the heck. Since we were speaking of Parnate (MAOI), I was reading about a person who had a psychotic reaction when he took Sudafed at the same time as he was taking Paxil. Apparently, Sudafed acts somewhat like a MAOI (I think that's what it was), and that is what caused the reaction. The reason I raise this is to suggest that perhaps you can try some Sudafed as a short-term treatment, until you can get adequate treatment or a pdoc that is willing to prescribe more than SSRIs.
Tamara
> Sometimes I feel that I need to attempt suicide for anyone to give me some quality care.
>
> Linkadge
Posted by Declan on July 11, 2005, at 23:16:29
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 21:05:28
On 40mg/d I'd feel pretty intense too, and I'd get no sleep.
Declan
Posted by Jazzed on July 12, 2005, at 9:12:49
In reply to sinking, posted by linkadge on July 11, 2005, at 16:56:52
I'm sorry you're going through all of this link. I don't understand why you have to wait so long for counseling and why your doc won't listen to what works for you. No chance of a new p-doc?
Please keep posting, and looking for support here. We don't want anything bad to happen to you.
((((hugs))))
Jazzy
Posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 15:44:04
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 11, 2005, at 21:35:55
I have never thrown that idea out the window, but I don't have highs. I really and honestly have no highs at all. My mother is bipolar and I've seen highs before.
I do ok, then *boom* some sort of panic strikes that lasts for hours, then all of these images and picutures of times of fairure, feelings of being trapped, they are so overwhelming that all I can think about it suicide. They vanish, and I seem to return to feeling normal. I don't feel bipolar, I feel extrordinarily emotionally frail. Under the right circumstances I can get by with no meds, but even small changes in the environment are enought to make me feel out of control. When I was young there was really no mother. Mother was a robot, so I feel that I have to be very self sufficant. If things get out of control, that seems like the only way I can help myself.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on July 12, 2005, at 17:23:24
In reply to Re: sinking » SLS, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 15:44:04
Hi Linkadge.
> I have never thrown that idea out the window, but I don't have highs.
I will be very interested to see the DSM V when it finally comes out. It is supposed to contain at least five variants of bipolar disorder (BD). One of those proposed is for an individual who remains in a chronic state of depression without expressing mania.
Regarding mood dysregulation, my guess is that yours has a bipolar diathesis and should be treated accordingly. That your mother's phenotype includes mania only goes to affirm this. We both know that much of the psychiatric community talks about "soft bipolar" and "bipolar spectrums". I think a bipolar diathesis demands the use of mood-stabilizers or anything else that seems to be especially necessary to treat bipolar disorder.
> I do ok, then *boom* some sort of panic strikes that lasts for hours, then all of these images and picutures of times of fairure, feelings of being trapped, they are so overwhelming that all I can think about it suicide. They vanish, and I seem to return to feeling normal. I don't feel bipolar, I feel extrordinarily emotionally frail. Under the right circumstances I can get by with no meds, but even small changes in the environment are enought to make me feel out of control. When I was young there was really no mother. Mother was a robot, so I feel that I have to be very self sufficant. If things get out of control, that seems like the only way I can help myself.
You are a tough nut to crack, Linkadge. Some of what you describe seems enigmatic if one were to focus solely on Axis I disorders. However, it is more likely that you have been "blessed" with comorbitity. I am beginning to think that you should focus some of your attention on Axis II disorders. Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). It presents differently in males than it does in females. However, some of the symptoms of BPD include impulsive thinking and behavior that in your case might include suicidal thoughts. BPD seems to have some biological underpinnings, so that it can ebb and flow over short periods of time without environmental influence. These affective shifts can occur several times a day. Fear of abandonment is another hallmark symptom of BPD. BD and BPD often occur together. There might be other Axis II disorders that are more applicable. BPD is the one I am most familiar with.
Tegretol / Trileptal + Zyprexa can work wonders for treating BPD. However, there must very often be some additional attention paid to the content of the thoughts and feelings such that they be attended to using psychotherapy. Dialectic Behavior Therapy (DBT) is particularly well suited to treat BPD.
What has been your experience with Tegretol, Trileptal, or Zyprexa? I don't know how well the other atypical APs work. I just know that for now, Zyprexa is the one most often chosen.
I don't think there are going to be any easy answers for you, my friend. But I do feel that your talking to people and expressing your thoughts and feelings as you do here on Psycho-Babble has probably saved your life. I urge you to continue talking and posting. I believe your communication have prevented you from acting on urges and impulses that many others would have followed through with because they had no one to talk to.
For you, there indeed may not be a magic pill as there are for so many people whom suffer from uncomplicated forms of MDD or BD. With you, a comorbid personality disorder would leave you suffering despite the optimal treatment of the affective disorder component of your illnesses.
I wish there were an easier way for you.
Of the things I admire about you, your candor and lack of defensiveness when talking about yourself and your suffering is particularly compelling. That you have an open mind and do not judge any psychological contribution to your condition as being a character weakness deserves respect. If you continue down the path you have chosen to get well, you will. You are doing everything right, despite the possibility that your doctors are doing everything wrong. Keep going. You'll get there.
- Scott
Posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 18:32:46
In reply to Re: sinking » SLS, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 15:44:04
Link,
I am glad you have made arrangements to see a counsellor, because the therapy will be extremely beneficial. You know, you don't always have to be in control and self-sufficient in all areas of your life. It is not a sign of weakness or a character flaw to ask for help, although I do understand why it is so important for you to be independent and in control. I, too, had to learn at a young age to be relatively self-sufficient, and still have problems asking for help or accepting that some things are just beyond my control. I think that is where therapy comes in - to give us the tools to help us deal with situations that can send us spinning, ruminating and even catastrophizing, and to help us remain, as much as possible, on an even keel and to not panic or beat up on ourselves.
Tamara
> I have never thrown that idea out the window, but I don't have highs. I really and honestly have no highs at all. My mother is bipolar and I've seen highs before.
>
> I do ok, then *boom* some sort of panic strikes that lasts for hours, then all of these images and picutures of times of fairure, feelings of being trapped, they are so overwhelming that all I can think about it suicide. They vanish, and I seem to return to feeling normal. I don't feel bipolar, I feel extrordinarily emotionally frail. Under the right circumstances I can get by with no meds, but even small changes in the environment are enought to make me feel out of control. When I was young there was really no mother. Mother was a robot, so I feel that I have to be very self sufficant. If things get out of control, that seems like the only way I can help myself.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
Posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 19:46:03
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 18:32:46
What has been your experience with Tegretol, Trileptal, or Zyprexa? I don't know how well the other atypical APs work. I just know that for now, Zyprexa is the one most often chosen.
--------------------------------------------------I have been on all three, not at once though. For some reason I have strong negative feeling towards all three. I slept 14 hours a day on 2.5 zyprexa and I started to fail tests and quizzes because I didn't know what was happening around me. It was a fairly long trial too.
Tegretol and trileptal seemd very mind controlling. I felt very helpless on tegretol, like I couldn't do anything, like I was a nobody.
They both seemed to abruptly end all mind noise,
(mind you so did ritalin), whereas ritalin didn't make me feel so worthless.Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 19:47:39
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 18:32:46
The hospital said it might be a good idea to go to a "personality disorder clinic" or something, in the Toronto area, but I wouldn't know the first thing of getting that started.
Linkadge
Posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 19:59:02
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 19:47:39
That sounds like a good recommendation. I think I had come across a mental health website for the Toronto area a while ago where you might get contact numbers and such. I will have a look in my "bookmarks" to see if I can find it. Then, it would just be a matter of calling and seeing what the intake procedures are for out-patient counselling. There also may be some kind of a Mental Health Association or something like that which could provide information and guidance about how to go about locating appropriate services, etc.
Tamara
> The hospital said it might be a good idea to go to a "personality disorder clinic" or something, in the Toronto area, but I wouldn't know the first thing of getting that started.
>
>
> Linkadge
Posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 20:23:32
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 19:47:39
Link,
I think I would start with the Centre for Addiction and Mental Health (CAMH), Canada's leading addiction and mental health teaching hospital, located in Toronto. Are you comfortable calling them, because I don't mind calling if you want?
Link to info on Centre for Addiction and Mental Health programs
http://www.camh.net/care_treatment/programdescriptions.html
Link to contact phone numbers for Centre for Addiction and Mental Health
http://www.camh.net/about_camh/howtoreachus.html
I have also e-mailed the Canadian Mental Health Association's Toronto branch to see if they can provide a list of Mood/Personality Disorders clinics in the Toronto area where counselling/therapy is available on an out-patient basis. If I get anything back from them, I will babblemail it to you.
Tamara
Posted by Jakeman on July 13, 2005, at 0:49:34
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 18:32:46
Your're a sane, smart guy plus you have anger. You've got the tools you need to move this in your direction.
Just an opinion ~Jake
Posted by linkadge on July 13, 2005, at 6:32:03
In reply to Link, as promised » linkadge, posted by TamaraJ on July 12, 2005, at 20:23:32
Thanks for the contact info. If I was to go to any of these centers it would probably have to be on a very limited basis. Attending counselling there would probably be impossable to get to.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on July 13, 2005, at 6:35:45
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by Jakeman on July 13, 2005, at 0:49:34
I have given up on assertivness. Assertivness seems to get doctors angry at me. Assertivness gets me mood stabalizers and APs.
Linkadge
Posted by SLS on July 13, 2005, at 10:24:35
In reply to Re: sinking, posted by linkadge on July 12, 2005, at 19:46:03
> Tegretol and trileptal seemd very mind controlling. I felt very helpless on tegretol, like I couldn't do anything, like I was a nobody.
Trileptal made me feel something like that over the first four weeks or so. I then began to feel more assertive without being angry.
> They both seemed to abruptly end all mind noise,
That's what I was hoping to hear.
- Scott
Posted by linkadge on July 13, 2005, at 17:43:10
In reply to Re: sinking » linkadge, posted by SLS on July 13, 2005, at 10:24:35
But, like I said, Ritalin also completely ended all mind noise for the month or so that I took it.
Started up the day I stopped.
Linkadge
Posted by TamaraJ on July 13, 2005, at 19:58:22
In reply to Re: Link, as promised, posted by linkadge on July 13, 2005, at 6:32:03
Yeah, you would have a bit of travelling to do there and back. Perhaps an intensive program may be available, after which time the Centre can refer you to a counsellor in your area with whom they are familiar and who is up to their calibre.
Good luck.
Tamara
> Thanks for the contact info. If I was to go to any of these centers it would probably have to be on a very limited basis. Attending counselling there would probably be impossable to get to.
>
> Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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