Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 500404

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Melatonin safe with MAOIs?

Posted by cybercafe on May 20, 2005, at 14:43:56

Hey guys... I am sleeping at the strangest hours. Find it really hard to sleep when I should. Want to try melatonin..

I am also taking parnate 30 mg / day.

Can I combine the two?

 

Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs?

Posted by djmmm on May 20, 2005, at 15:26:08

In reply to Melatonin safe with MAOIs?, posted by cybercafe on May 20, 2005, at 14:43:56

> Hey guys... I am sleeping at the strangest hours. Find it really hard to sleep when I should. Want to try melatonin..
>
> I am also taking parnate 30 mg / day.
>
> Can I combine the two?

Sure..I do almost nightly.

 

Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs? » cybercafe

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 20, 2005, at 17:58:41

In reply to Melatonin safe with MAOIs?, posted by cybercafe on May 20, 2005, at 14:43:56

> Hey guys... I am sleeping at the strangest hours. Find it really hard to sleep when I should. Want to try melatonin..
>
> I am also taking parnate 30 mg / day.
>
> Can I combine the two?

Yes.

The effective dose of melatonin, though, can vary by an order of magnitude, across individuals. And, unlike other drugs, melatonin has an inverted-U shaped dose-response curve. If you know what the standard bell-curve looks like, it's something like that.

At lower (relative) doses, response increases with dose (kind of what you'd expect). Then, you reach a plateau. Increasing dose does not increase the effect. Then, at even higher doses, the response drops off (the opposite of what you'd expect).

The thing you need to do is figure out what your plateau dose is, and never exceed that.

Normal physiological amounts of melatonin are about 0.6 mg, yet the standard tablets are 3 mg. It could be that some people don't absorb it well, or their livers degrade it, or whatever....so you need to experiment with dose.

If you start at around 0.75 mg (1/4 tablet) and work up by quarters, you should find your dose without exceeding it. (If you go too high, nothing will happen at all.)

My own effective dose is in the 0.6 to 1.0 mg range. I've heard of people needing 6 mg or more.

Best,
Lar

 

Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs? » Larry Hoover

Posted by Phillipa on May 20, 2005, at 18:53:28

In reply to Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs? » cybercafe, posted by Larry Hoover on May 20, 2005, at 17:58:41

My neighbor who takes no psych meds at all takes 5mg if she can't sleep and says she goes right to sleep. She doesn't have an easy life as one of her children has autism and screams, yells, tears off his clothes, and throws bottles of paint all over the house, plus he's an escape artist and they have to have special locks on their house. She also said her autistic son takes melatonin at bedtime. Said it's the only thing that gets him to sleep. She's against all meds and chemicals so it must be safe. Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs?

Posted by djmmm on May 20, 2005, at 20:18:25

In reply to Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs? » cybercafe, posted by Larry Hoover on May 20, 2005, at 17:58:41

> > Hey guys... I am sleeping at the strangest hours. Find it really hard to sleep when I should. Want to try melatonin..
> >
> > I am also taking parnate 30 mg / day.
> >
> > Can I combine the two?
>
> Yes.
>
> The effective dose of melatonin, though, can vary by an order of magnitude, across individuals. And, unlike other drugs, melatonin has an inverted-U shaped dose-response curve. If you know what the standard bell-curve looks like, it's something like that.
>
> At lower (relative) doses, response increases with dose (kind of what you'd expect). Then, you reach a plateau. Increasing dose does not increase the effect. Then, at even higher doses, the response drops off (the opposite of what you'd expect).
>
> The thing you need to do is figure out what your plateau dose is, and never exceed that.
>
> Normal physiological amounts of melatonin are about 0.6 mg, yet the standard tablets are 3 mg. It could be that some people don't absorb it well, or their livers degrade it, or whatever....so you need to experiment with dose.
>
> If you start at around 0.75 mg (1/4 tablet) and work up by quarters, you should find your dose without exceeding it. (If you go too high, nothing will happen at all.)
>
> My own effective dose is in the 0.6 to 1.0 mg range. I've heard of people needing 6 mg or more.
>
> Best,
> Lar
>


It also comes in 3 MCG... I have seen 3mcg, 3mg, and 5mg pills...most of the time, Melatonin is combined with a B vitamin, I have found that the 3mg brands, without the b-vitamins, work the best.

 

Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs?

Posted by cybercafe on May 21, 2005, at 12:04:36

In reply to Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs?, posted by djmmm on May 20, 2005, at 15:26:08

> > Hey guys... I am sleeping at the strangest hours. Find it really hard to sleep when I should. Want to try melatonin..
> >
> > I am also taking parnate 30 mg / day.
> >
> > Can I combine the two?
>
> Sure..I do almost nightly.

I read that MAO is responsible for breaking down melatonin. So if it is inhibited, the melatonin levels should remain higher longer, no?

Having said that... I took about 1.5 mg last night and finally re-set my circadian rythum! A whole 10 hours straight! I love this stuff

... though playing around with the body's hormones is something that really scares me.

Especially since melatonin is not a pharmaceutical, which I am assuming means not as much testing is done on it.


P.S. - i need to find a better line for friends that are CONVINCED "all natural" = safe, than "yeah well so is arsenic, cocaine, and lithium, but I don't see you taking any of those"

 

Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs? » cybercafe

Posted by Larry Hoover on May 21, 2005, at 17:37:50

In reply to Re: Melatonin safe with MAOIs?, posted by cybercafe on May 21, 2005, at 12:04:36

> > > Hey guys... I am sleeping at the strangest hours. Find it really hard to sleep when I should. Want to try melatonin..
> > >
> > > I am also taking parnate 30 mg / day.
> > >
> > > Can I combine the two?
> >
> > Sure..I do almost nightly.
>
> I read that MAO is responsible for breaking down melatonin. So if it is inhibited, the melatonin levels should remain higher longer, no?

MAO has no substantial role to play in the breakdown of melatonin. A breakdown product of melatonin does become further degraded by MAO, but that accounts for about 2% of all melatonin, according to radioactive tracer studies.

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/236/11/3072
http://www.jbc.org/cgi/reprint/236/12/3214

They're old references, but the second one has an excellent chart of the process (Figure 6).

The principle reaction to inactivate melatonin starts with 6-hydroxylation, followed by sulphation (~70%) or glucoridination (25%), or is excreted in urine unconjugated.

> Having said that... I took about 1.5 mg last night and finally re-set my circadian rythum! A whole 10 hours straight! I love this stuff

It is my belief that you can safely continue to take melatonin, at that or similar dose, as needed.

Melatonin is a better neuronal antioxidant than is glutathione. I can't even think of a way this stuff could hurt you.

> ... though playing around with the body's hormones is something that really scares me.

This one is actually in the food you eat.

> Especially since melatonin is not a pharmaceutical, which I am assuming means not as much testing is done on it.

Well....melatonin isn't rocket science. I'd bet you that most of the melatonin comes from two sources, and it is just packaged up differently for different vendors.

> P.S. - i need to find a better line for friends that are CONVINCED "all natural" = safe, than "yeah well so is arsenic, cocaine, and lithium, but I don't see you taking any of those"

I don't know. All natural is safe, in the correct dose, at the right time, for the right reason. E. coli O157:H7 is natural, but I wouldn't want it in my hamburger.

Lar


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