Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 481622

Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused

Posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 13:03:45

I have read that Seroquel blocks dopamine and seratonin... is this right?

This confuses me. Why would blocking those things be of help? Considering AD's do the reuptake those things to help you feel better.

Could somebody explain this to me in 3rd grade terms??

And if I was told to stay clear of things that mess with my seratonin- would that include things like Seroquel that apparently do mess with seratonin. OR did the pdoc just mean SSRI's?

*confused blonde look*

I want something to help this anxiety- the benzo's aren't cutting it. Doctor wants me on this Seroquel but when I take it, it gives me the weirdest heavy-head feeling.

It's hard to describe but it's almost like I can feel my brain chemistry being FORCED To come to a complete HAULT. Like there is heavy furniture up there being forced to move. I know it's weird.. just go with me on this.

Could someone please explain how this stuff works (and remember, talk to me like I'm an 8 year old). I don't understand words like 5ht antagonist/receptors and such. LOL

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused » Spriggy

Posted by Ritch on April 8, 2005, at 13:30:48

In reply to Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused, posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 13:03:45

> I have read that Seroquel blocks dopamine and seratonin... is this right?
>
> This confuses me. Why would blocking those things be of help? Considering AD's do the reuptake those things to help you feel better.
>
> Could somebody explain this to me in 3rd grade terms??
>
> And if I was told to stay clear of things that mess with my seratonin- would that include things like Seroquel that apparently do mess with seratonin. OR did the pdoc just mean SSRI's?
>
> *confused blonde look*
>
> I want something to help this anxiety- the benzo's aren't cutting it. Doctor wants me on this Seroquel but when I take it, it gives me the weirdest heavy-head feeling.
>
> It's hard to describe but it's almost like I can feel my brain chemistry being FORCED To come to a complete HAULT. Like there is heavy furniture up there being forced to move. I know it's weird.. just go with me on this.
>
> Could someone please explain how this stuff works (and remember, talk to me like I'm an 8 year old). I don't understand words like 5ht antagonist/receptors and such. LOL
>
>

Hi, SSRI's block the "pumps" that remove serotonin, so it builds up and there's more of it. Seroquel blocks a serotonin "receptor" from "receiving" serotonin. Different mechanism, your pdoc probably meant not to mess with the SSRI's. I don't understand it all very well either. I took a small dose of Seroquel (25mg) at bedtime for a short while. The sluggish feeling is pretty intense on that one. To me it felt like trying to move through heavy transmission fluid or trying to swim in a pool full of jello. You might try only taking it at bedtime.. and even better take it about *2 hours* before bedtime, so it has a chance to wear off a little faster the next day, or get a pill cracker and take half a tab. Argh, if there's something I can't stand is being oversedated.

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused

Posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 13:34:44

In reply to Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused, posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 13:03:45

I don't know a lot about the chemistry of the brain and pdrugs, maybe someone else can help you there, but I'll share what i do know. Everyone's brain is different. Numerous chemicals in combination are responsible for our moods. "Fixing" one imbalance can illuminate or even cause another. Also, different imbalances can cause seemingly similar symptoms; that is why pdrugs are largely still trial and error.

SSRIs help you share seratonin between cells, kind of like how copper is good at keeping electrons moving from atom to atom - ie it conducts electricity. It is unclear exactly what the mechanism is that makes this happen in our brains when the drug is taken. Seratonin, however, is not the only feel-good drug in our bodies, neither is good-feeling its only effect.

Too much of something like seratonin or dopamine can cause psychosis, racing thoughts, or a number of other typically manic, anxious, or schizo symptoms in a person. It can put someone in an excited state. There are many cases in which ADs don't work on someone, but something like seroquel does, because it fixes a different kind of imbalance even though the syptoms are the same. And it seems to me that whatever ADs you are on are not doing their job because you are still so anxious that you could not possibly feel good - you probably don't even have the time to since you are so consumed with your anxiety. (I think that was a run-on sentence?!?) Some people get anxious because they are depressed, and often SSRIs are good for these people. However, some people get depressed because they are anxious, and from my experience, some of these people may do better on something else. Given that ADs are clearly not doing their job for you, why not try the seroquel? It is just a different solution to the same symptoms, simply discovered 10 years later.

Anyway, I had a thought. First, is the heavy head feeling basically just drowsiness? Perhaps instead of taking a smaller doses throughout the day, maybe you could ask your doc about taking a big dose before bed. If you take, say, 100mg at 9pm, then you you still have approx. 25mg in your system at 9am, but you are far less likely to be drowsy than if you took 25mg right at 9am. This approach has worked out fairly well for me. Also, it takes at least a few weeks for your brain to get used to new drugs.

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused

Posted by banga on April 8, 2005, at 14:57:10

In reply to Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused, posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 13:34:44

Hi!
I dont have the Seroquel information in front of me...
But you are either referring to:
*serotonin reuptake inhibitor--as someone mentioned, that blocks serotonin from being reabsorbed--so it stays in the synapses longer. So there is more serotonin.

* each neurotransmitter hes various subtypes of sites where it executes its action. They can have differing effects. At some of these sites you want more serotonin (well, usually). At some you want less.
You may have read about the block of a specific subtype of serotonin receptor, called 5HT2a. Drugs that BLOCK serotonin from binding there supposedly HELP anxiety and depression.

So it is all very complicated--at some sites you want more serotonin, at some you want less.

Geodon and Abilify (and clomipramine and nortryptiline) all are drugs that block the 5HT2a receptor. This is what helps my anxiety and possibly depression. this is key for me.

I am not expert at all on all the medication effects, but this piece I know, because it is the one that helps me the most.

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused » Spriggy

Posted by Maxime on April 8, 2005, at 15:00:39

In reply to Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused, posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 13:03:45

Spriggy, Sero-Kill does that to everyone. That's why pdocs hand it out like candy to help people sleep. I slept, but it was an awful sleep. And I felt drunk the entire day.

You have a say in what you take in terms of meds. Tell the doctor you won't take it and that he has to come up with a better solution. Tell him to try it and see how he feels.

If it's to treat your anxiety try Ativan or valium. Neither touch serotonin. You said benzos didn't help your anxiety ... which ones did you try? How about a beta-blocker? A beta-blocker lowers your BP which might actually be a good thing in your case.

Maxime

> I have read that Seroquel blocks dopamine and seratonin... is this right?
>
> This confuses me. Why would blocking those things be of help? Considering AD's do the reuptake those things to help you feel better.
>
> Could somebody explain this to me in 3rd grade terms??
>
> And if I was told to stay clear of things that mess with my seratonin- would that include things like Seroquel that apparently do mess with seratonin. OR did the pdoc just mean SSRI's?
>
> *confused blonde look*
>
> I want something to help this anxiety- the benzo's aren't cutting it. Doctor wants me on this Seroquel but when I take it, it gives me the weirdest heavy-head feeling.
>
> It's hard to describe but it's almost like I can feel my brain chemistry being FORCED To come to a complete HAULT. Like there is heavy furniture up there being forced to move. I know it's weird.. just go with me on this.
>
> Could someone please explain how this stuff works (and remember, talk to me like I'm an 8 year old). I don't understand words like 5ht antagonist/receptors and such. LOL
>
>

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused

Posted by mworkman on April 8, 2005, at 15:31:24

In reply to Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused » Spriggy, posted by Maxime on April 8, 2005, at 15:00:39

Seroquel attaches to the the nerve of several seretoin and dopamine sites. This blocks the dopamine or seretoin from getting there and lowering the nervers activity.

Several antipsychotics actually increase nerve activity by attaching to some seretoin and dopamine nerve sites but they cause the nerve to increace activity. They also lower some nerve activity the same way as seroquel.

abifly and gedoen or whatever are some that have the mixed activity raising some nerve activity and decreasing others. those might help more.

 

Completely your life, your choice

Posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 15:31:40

In reply to Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused » Spriggy, posted by Maxime on April 8, 2005, at 15:00:39

I agree with Maxine. You are the one taking the drugs; it is totally your choice. Only you can know how the different drugs make you feel. I just wanted to encourage you to give new drugs a chance since the old ones don't work so well for you. I was really hesitant at first to go on any drug at all, but now I am glad I did.

 

Re: Completely your life, your choice

Posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 16:19:44

In reply to Completely your life, your choice, posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 15:31:40

Thanks everyone, that made a lot of sense.

PM80, no, I can't take any SSRI's or AD drug that reuptakes seratonin. I totally wig out on such things.

I am on Klonopin but it's not helping- obviously or I woudln't still be needing something else.

I have tried the Seroquel.. it just makes my head feel SOOO weird. I don't think I like it. It's the "trippy" feeling that we posted about above. I feel that way until it knocks me out. And even though it does knock me out, it's a different type of sleep- it's not restful but it feels "forced." it's hard to even explain.

Maybe i need to give it more time to work, I don't know. I'm just worn out from trying to figure what to try , what not to try, etc..

The past few days, I have felt worse.. more depressed and anxious than I have in several months BUT I did just start my "monthly" cycle as well- which could be the reason.

 

Some thoughts » Spriggy

Posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 16:43:42

In reply to Re: Completely your life, your choice, posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 16:19:44

I'm not sure what klonopin is or what it does.?.

If you eventually decide you don't like the seroquel; depakote is also commonly used to treat anxiety. These two pdrugs are the only ones that I have experience with. Depakote may help, either alone or with the seroquel. Depakote has not caused any drowsiness at all for me. You said you had a bottle of it at home. Have you ever tried it?

Maybe you could make a list on paper to bring to your doctor outlining three things:

1) the symptoms you wish to eleviate (maybe rank them from the most severe to the least?)

2)Drugs that are PROVEN not to work for you, perhaps also stating what their actual effect was (did they make a certain symptom worse, no effect at all, etc)

3)and the drugs that people here have recommended, listing each drug with your desired result/reason for taking it. Keeping this list list reasonably short may help it be taken more seriously.

Just some thoughts. Hang in there, Spriggy.

 

Re: Some thoughts

Posted by Phillipa on April 8, 2005, at 17:56:10

In reply to Some thoughts » Spriggy, posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 16:43:42

Spriggy it made me feel that way too. That's why they took me off of it after a few days. Klonopin just "dulls" me and makes me emotionless. I think a very low dose of valium would do the trick for you. No serious side effects, no drunk feeling, just a feeling of no anxiety. Years ago before all the new drugs were available it was the drug of choice. It was better back then when there weren't so many to choose from. When you get on a proper dose of synthroid you'll feel better too. And again 5 small protein containing meals a day to stabalize your blood sugar. It really works. Fondly, Phillipa

 

Re: Some thoughts

Posted by lara53 on April 8, 2005, at 18:53:44

In reply to Some thoughts » Spriggy, posted by PM80 on April 8, 2005, at 16:43:42

PM80,

I like your thought on list of meds;CK1 also mentioned charting your moods from 1-10. I have 11 days to do that! It is so nice to learn about these things;I'm like Spriggy,don't have a clue. A few of the ones pdoc stated he would like to try,I never would have heard about them if it was'nt for this board and that I'm not alone with these sideeffects. Resting for awhile,flooded basement, AGAIN! Unfortunately the energy I had last week has left me;would have come in handy today.

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused

Posted by D minor on April 8, 2005, at 19:58:18

In reply to Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused, posted by Spriggy on April 8, 2005, at 13:03:45

I hope you take the Seroquel at night, because it puts most people (me included) straight to sleep. That might explain the heavy headed feeling. And as far as I know (which may not be very far at all) antypical ADs regulate neurochemicals, not exactly block them. How? I'm not sure anyone knows.

dm

 

Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused

Posted by chess on April 10, 2005, at 9:59:28

In reply to Re: Seroquel and seratonin?? I am confused, posted by D minor on April 8, 2005, at 19:58:18

Regarding anxiety, AD's take weeks to therapeutically work, why?, i've read it is because they need time to "down-regulate" serotonin receptors on the post-synaptic cells, and that this down-regulation is what causes the eventual reduction in anxiety. Someone told me once it's like a person who can't stand swimming in a cold water pool, but then they have to learn to get used to it because they need to cross the pool everyday to get anywhere, so the person tries to desensitize themselves to the cold water by repeatedly going in it until they get used to it, and AD's are like droppping buckets of ice into the pool so that the desensitization is more intense but also maybe quicker.
When i say AD's i'm talking about the SSRIs, i know other drugs like remeron actually block some serotonin receptors and do the work for you, i just don't know if that allows for a desensitization of the receptor itself.
i'm not sure if i know what i'm talking about, but i would think two ways of causing a therapeutic effect for anxiety (?and depression) is by either desensitizing (down-regulating) or blocking the post-synaptic serotonin receptors, and Seroquel blocks the S2 receptors, i'm not sure what benefit in blocking D2 receptors has (?anti-schizo), alot of these meds also effect histamine in the brain which causes a benadryl-like sedation that some people find helpful.


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