Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 474712

Shown: posts 1 to 23 of 23. This is the beginning of the thread.

 

SSRI INDUCED APATHY

Posted by greg diamond on March 23, 2005, at 17:35:38

Lauren Slater talks about this in her book 'Prozac Diary' - apathy induced by AD's. I don't care about my duties, can't focus on tasks, have little motivation, how is this different from depression?
because i don't feel as bad? anyone else with stories on this 'phase' of SSRI's, and maybe if it did change. (i am 50 mg zoloft, 30mg remeron)

outer space = craig.

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY

Posted by JKL on March 24, 2005, at 5:51:52

In reply to SSRI INDUCED APATHY, posted by greg diamond on March 23, 2005, at 17:35:38

> Lauren Slater talks about this in her book 'Prozac Diary' - apathy induced by AD's. I don't care about my duties, can't focus on tasks, have little motivation, how is this different from depression?
> because i don't feel as bad? anyone else with stories on this 'phase' of SSRI's, and maybe if it did change. (i am 50 mg zoloft, 30mg remeron)
>
> outer space = craig.

SSRI induced apathy is not uncommon. I think it is under-reported, and under-recognized by physicians.

I think SSRIs are actually emotional numbing agents for some people. They get rid of the lows, but also the highs, leaving a very narrow but steady range of emotions.

The apathy and lack of motivation is often seen as residual depression still lingering. Then they raise your dosage to fix it, and actually make it even worse.

I have come to believe that apathy is actually a stand-alone syndrome all by itself, which can be part of depression, but can also exist by itself without depression. I personally battled apathy, anhedonia, and lack of motivation for years.

Syndromes of apathy and lack of motivation, regardless of whether they are caused by other meds or not, can be treated. Norepinephrine and/or dopamine meds are much more likely to fix it than serotonin meds. Sometimes just lowering the SSRI dosage can help.

I take 10mg prozac, 5mg zyprexa, and 600mg st johns wort. The prozac and zyprexa keep me stable and undepressed, but rather blaw and apathetic as you described. Searching for a dompamine/norepinephrine way to fix it, I figured my two top choices were either wellbutrin or st johns wort. I've tried wellbutrin before and didn't like the way it made my ears ring loudly, so I opted to give sjw a shot. It worked great. Apathy is hardly there anymore, motivation is good. I now take pleasure in watching a movie, thinking about going skiing, hiking, or bike riding. It's awesome to back in life again.

Apathy is treatable, regardless of the cause. But it will likely take a norepinephrine and/or dopamine medication to deal with it.

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY

Posted by jessers11581 on March 24, 2005, at 7:17:10

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY, posted by JKL on March 24, 2005, at 5:51:52

Apathy is definitely one of the most major side effects that I've been experiencing from my meds. And it undoubtedly increases with dosage. I was on 250 mg. Luvox, then 40 mg. Celexa, and now I'm taking 15 mg. Lexapro. The Lexapro seems to be the best as far as keeping me feeling motivated.

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY

Posted by franco neuro on March 25, 2005, at 12:53:51

In reply to SSRI INDUCED APATHY, posted by greg diamond on March 23, 2005, at 17:35:38

I've had the same experience. It wasn't so bad when I took Paxil, but that was 7 years ago when I had a lot more motivation/energy to begin with. (Probably because I hadn't burned out my dopamine/norepinephrine yet.) My more recent stint on Zoloft, however, made my apathy and anhedonia a lot worse. As a matter of fact, not only did I not have any negative withrawel symptoms when I stopped taking it, I ended up having the best 2 or 3 days that I've had in years. Which has me thinking that I might benefit from Remeron or Trazadone which are selective 5-HT antagonists.

But before I go that route I'm going to try and address what is most likely the uderlying reason for my apathy/anhedonia. Low dopamine and/or norepinephrine. I was thinking of trying desipramine, but I'm a little wary of TCA's. I'm still trying to recover from 3 1/2 years on Elavil and it's been 2 years since I came off of it. (By the way, if you remove the "la" from elavil it spells evil.) Desipramine is a lot "cleaner" than Elavil though. At low to moderate doses it's pretty much a pure NRI. Unfortunately, there's still the TCA cardio-toxicity risk.

So taking all of this into account I picked up a script for 100mg of Wellbutrin SR yesterday. First time I'll be working dopamine/norepinephrine. Hope like hell it works. If it makes my anxiety worse or causes insomnia I can always add a little Remeron to the mix.

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro

Posted by KaraS on March 25, 2005, at 16:51:57

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY, posted by franco neuro on March 25, 2005, at 12:53:51

> I've had the same experience. It wasn't so bad when I took Paxil, but that was 7 years ago when I had a lot more motivation/energy to begin with. (Probably because I hadn't burned out my dopamine/norepinephrine yet.) My more recent stint on Zoloft, however, made my apathy and anhedonia a lot worse. As a matter of fact, not only did I not have any negative withrawel symptoms when I stopped taking it, I ended up having the best 2 or 3 days that I've had in years. Which has me thinking that I might benefit from Remeron or Trazadone which are selective 5-HT antagonists.
>
> But before I go that route I'm going to try and address what is most likely the uderlying reason for my apathy/anhedonia. Low dopamine and/or norepinephrine. I was thinking of trying desipramine, but I'm a little wary of TCA's. I'm still trying to recover from 3 1/2 years on Elavil and it's been 2 years since I came off of it. (By the way, if you remove the "la" from elavil it spells evil.) Desipramine is a lot "cleaner" than Elavil though. At low to moderate doses it's pretty much a pure NRI. Unfortunately, there's still the TCA cardio-toxicity risk.
>
> So taking all of this into account I picked up a script for 100mg of Wellbutrin SR yesterday. First time I'll be working dopamine/norepinephrine. Hope like hell it works. If it makes my anxiety worse or causes insomnia I can always add a little Remeron to the mix.


Hi Franco,

Is the Wellbutrin part of Dr. Braverman's program? FWIW, I think you're on the right path. My fingers are crossed that this works for you. Please let us know how you do.

Kara

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS

Posted by franco neuro on March 26, 2005, at 10:50:55

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 25, 2005, at 16:51:57

Hi Kara,

Sorry I've failed to keep you posted on the Braverman stuff. I've kinda been stuck in neutral for the past month. I finally managed to muster up enough motivation to go back and see him.

Anyway, I pretty much had decided that I wanted to try pushing the dopamine/norepinephrine, so I mentioned Wellbutrin to him and he agreed completely. To give him credit he actually told me the first day that dopamine was my problem, but for some strange reason I decided I wanted to give Zoloft a try?

We'll see what happens. Like I said he really helped my friend. The poor guy was told he had chronic fatique and was on disability for almost 10 years. Braverman put him on Lamictal and told him he had to keep taking it. It took a few months to kick in, but now it's 10 months into it and the guy is a new person. He even has his girlfriend going to see Braverman. Unfortunately, my Brain Map and personality profile came out totally different from his so I'm not sure Lamictal would help me.

Right now I've got the new drug jitters. Not because I'm worried it'll mess me up, but that it won't work. I will definitely let you know how it goes...

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro

Posted by KaraS on March 26, 2005, at 17:52:18

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS, posted by franco neuro on March 26, 2005, at 10:50:55

> Hi,
>
> Sorry I've failed to keep you posted on the Braverman stuff. I've kinda been stuck in neutral for the past month.


No need to apologize. It's just good to hear from you again.


>I finally managed to muster up enough motivation to go back and see him.


I know how that is. Just getting up the motivation to get treated is hard sometimes.


> Anyway, I pretty much had decided that I wanted to try pushing the dopamine/norepinephrine, so I mentioned Wellbutrin to him and he agreed completely. To give him credit he actually told me the first day that dopamine was my problem, but for some strange reason I decided I wanted to give Zoloft a try?


Well, you got it out of your system anyway. Now you won't be wondering if Zoloft would have been better for you. I have Braverman's book here. I took the test and came out a GABA nature with moderate deficits in all of the other 3 neurotransmitters he tests for. I fell into the "see a doctor immediately" category. I did expect to have deficits in all of the categories though.


> We'll see what happens. Like I said he really helped my friend. The poor guy was told he had chronic fatique and was on disability for almost 10 years. Braverman put him on Lamictal and told him he had to keep taking it. It took a few months to kick in, but now it's 10 months into it and the guy is a new person. He even has his girlfriend going to see Braverman. Unfortunately, my Brain Map and personality profile came out totally different from his so I'm not sure Lamictal would help me.


What matters is that you get the meds and supplements geared towards YOUR Brain Map and profile. Does he have you on the CES yet? It will be interesting to see how much he is able to help you and your friend's girlfriend.

I think I remember reading a post of yours where you discussed your feeling that Braverman seemed to be too interested in having a best selling book and being one of those famous celebrity type doctors. I definitely have the sense that is correct. The title of the book and the way every other sentence has the words "edge effect" in it gave me that impression right away. However, he also seems to have some good things to say. If he can help you and others, then who cares about his personal aspirations?


> Right now I've got the new drug jitters. Not because I'm worried it'll mess me up, but that it won't work. I will definitely let you know how it goes...


I know the feeling. You almost don't want to take it because you're afraid another option will get blown out of the water. I know several people who have had good results with Wellbutrin. Hopefully you'll be another one of them.

Take care,
Kara

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY

Posted by franco neuro on March 26, 2005, at 19:39:59

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 26, 2005, at 17:52:18

>What matters is that you get the meds and supplements geared towards YOUR Brain Map and profile.

Amen to that. And I did finally get a CES device. I've only tried it a couple of times so it's a little early to say if it's worth the price. Edge Effect is definitely an interesting book. I thought the personality test was fairly accurate. I came up as a Gaba type too. It pretty much matched the results of the one I took in his office. Which was longer. As far as the deficiency test goes, lets just say there are probably very few people on the planet who could take that test and come up showing no deficiencies.

I mean I don't want to knock the guy. He is very knowledgeable and is helping people. But the way the office is run can be very frustrating. They're always pushing a lot of very expensive tests. And don't expect to spend more than a couple of minutes with the guy.

But I've pretty much given up on finding the "perfect doctor" who's going to cure me. That doctor may have existed but he retired last year. Dr. Jacob A. Goldstein. If there was ever a doctor who could have "fixed" me he was the one. Believe it or not my friend that's doing great on Lamictal went to see Dr. Goldstein 8 years ago. Before I knew him. He said Dr. Goldstein was truly a saint. He had absolutely no ego and was completely disinterested in the "business" side of medicine. Which is probably why he almost went broke. He also thought he was a little eccentric. But what do you think Dr. Goldstein gave him? You got it...Lamictal! Unfortunately, he was only able to spend a week in California. When he got back home to NJ he didn't stick with the med. And Lamictal is one of those meds. that often takes a couple of tough months before you start seeing an effect. He's kicking himself because of this now. But it's better late than never.

Speaking of egos...was "His Holiness" Dr. Hoffman able to give you any useful advice? :-)

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro

Posted by KaraS on March 27, 2005, at 2:14:12

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY, posted by franco neuro on March 26, 2005, at 19:39:59

> >What matters is that you get the meds and supplements geared towards YOUR Brain Map and profile.
>
> Amen to that. And I did finally get a CES device. I've only tried it a couple of times so it's a little early to say if it's worth the price. Edge Effect is definitely an interesting book. I thought the personality test was fairly accurate. I came up as a Gaba type too. It pretty much matched the results of the one I took in his office. Which was longer. As far as the deficiency test goes, lets just say there are probably very few people on the planet who could take that test and come up showing no deficiencies.
>
> I mean I don't want to knock the guy. He is very knowledgeable and is helping people. But the way the office is run can be very frustrating. They're always pushing a lot of very expensive tests. And don't expect to spend more than a couple of minutes with the guy.


Hopefully those very expensive tests will show him important information that will help him treat you. But obviously, there's no guarantee. If he helps you a lot, you will be less inclined to begrudge the cost of those tests. It's really too bad that you can't get much time with him. That must be very frustrating. He'd better be a very good diagnostician to make up for his lack of time and bedside manner.


> But I've pretty much given up on finding the "perfect doctor" who's going to cure me. That doctor may have existed but he retired last year. Dr. Jacob A. Goldstein. If there was ever a doctor who could have "fixed" me he was the one. Believe it or not my friend that's doing great on Lamictal went to see Dr. Goldstein 8 years ago. Before I knew him. He said Dr. Goldstein was truly a saint. He had absolutely no ego and was completely disinterested in the "business" side of medicine. Which is probably why he almost went broke. He also thought he was a little eccentric. But what do you think Dr. Goldstein gave him? You got it...Lamictal! Unfortunately, he was only able to spend a week in California. When he got back home to NJ he didn't stick with the med. And Lamictal is one of those meds. that often takes a couple of tough months before you start seeing an effect. He's kicking himself because of this now. But it's better late than never.


I didn't even know that Lamictal has been around for that long. I would be kicking myself a lot too if I lost 10 years I didn't need to lose. But better to accept it than to kick yourself and lose a few more years doing that. As far as Dr. J. Goldstein, I've heard wonderful things about him too, though mostly in a clinical sense. To hear about his devotion to his patients only adds to my respect for him. I got his earlier book (can't think of the name now) from the library. Most of it was over my head but it was obvious to me that he was an original thinker and had studied his subject matter extensively. I would really like to read his later book, "Tuning the Brain". (Hopefully I could understand it enough to get some use out of it.) My pdoc is also a very good and caring doctor. He helped me a lot by talking to me over the phone and then calling in prescriptions when I could no longer afford to see him. Unfortunately doctors like him are one in a million.

> Speaking of egos...was "His Holiness" Dr. Hoffman able to give you any useful advice? :-)

You're too funny!!! Yes, I thought he was very helpful. I felt bad about that whole misunderstanding between the two of you because I know that you didn't mean to include him in with the money grubbing doctors. I think that you have had bad experiences with those kinds of doctors and it's one of your pet peeves. I think he may very well be one of the dedicated non-money grubbers who is extra sensitive to being lumped in with the the other kind of doctors. People probably make assumptions about him all of the time and so he is reacts strongly if he feels accused of that. Anyway, I could see where this misunderstanding could easily occur here.

K

 

Re: Braverman?

Posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 7:41:11

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS, posted by franco neuro on March 26, 2005, at 10:50:55

HI,
I do not know about Braverman's theories, will have to read up on it! But is there a way someone can tell me a quick bottom line about his work and Lamictal--who it helps, at what doses and how long to work?? I would appreciate it. Lamictal is currently in my med program, at 200mg, but I keep thinking it is not doing anything; but maybe the dose is too low/it has not been long enough.....

 

Re: Braverman? banga

Posted by KaraS on March 27, 2005, at 16:00:59

In reply to Re: Braverman?, posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 7:41:11

> HI,
> I do not know about Braverman's theories, will have to read up on it! But is there a way someone can tell me a quick bottom line about his work and Lamictal--who it helps, at what doses and how long to work?? I would appreciate it. Lamictal is currently in my med program, at 200mg, but I keep thinking it is not doing anything; but maybe the dose is too low/it has not been long enough.....


Hi Banga,
Dr. Braverman has a book out called "Edge Effect". He basically does all kinds of testing (including questionnaire) to determine what neurotransmitters you are low on and which one is your dominant "nature". Based on his findings, he adds meds and supplements. He also uses cranial electrotherapy stimulation, CES. (I've also seen it called cranial electrical stimulation. His goal is to get people off of medications as soon as possible and onto supplements but he recognizes that in some cases people need to be on certain meds forever. In this case, he knew that the person involved needed Lamictal. He doesn't claim it's the answer for everyone.

There's a detailed, recent archived thread between Franco Neuro and Elroy about Dr. Braverman and his treatment if you want to do a search.

Kara

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS

Posted by franco neuro on March 27, 2005, at 21:19:14

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 27, 2005, at 2:14:12

Thank God I haven't lost my sense of humor...yet. I know I probably come off as being a little cynical but I swear I'm not. It's just that when it comes to matters of health the last 5 or 6 years have been really frustrating. And lets face it, frustration and anger are the last thing most of us on this website need more of. It's even worse when the source of these destructive feelings is the same medical community that's supposed to be helping us.

> Hopefully those very expensive tests will show him important information that will help him treat you.

I'll buy that. And boy did I buy that. To the tune of $4000. And since I don't have health insurance right now, that's straight out of my pocket. So far I think it's money well spent. They did a lot of good blood tests and an EKG and an ultrasound of my heart. Not to forget the BEAM and personality tests. But every time I go they have a list of another $1000 dollars worth of tests that they want me to do. I mean come on! It's mostly the PA's that do the "suggesting." But I get the sense that they're told to push for a lot of testing. I tell them I'll get what I can afford. The last thing I need is to be nuts, in physical decline and living in a cardboard refrigerator box.

> I would really like to read his later book, "Tuning the Brain". (Hopefully I could understand it enough to get some use out of it.)

I just got it about three weeks ago. That's part of the reason I hadn't been posting. I was busy reading and rereading "Tuning the Brain". It is pretty heady stuff. But I've been trying to figure this stuff out for a while and it was just the book I was waiting for. I love it. It's become my brain chemistry Bible. (By the way Happy Easter! Unless your Jewish than Happy? Passover! If your an atheist than just...Happy!)

 

Re: Maybe this will help... banga

Posted by franco neuro on March 28, 2005, at 13:10:56

In reply to Re: Braverman?, posted by banga on March 27, 2005, at 7:41:11

Hi,

KaraS in her last post and the archives she suggested should give you a pretty good idea of what Dr. Braverman is all about. He has my friend on 400mg of Lamictal and it's helped him a lot. This should have no bearing on how much you take. That's between you and your doctor. As far as Lamictal goes here is what I know. (Mind you I'm not a doctor or scientists. I'm just a screwed up, fairly intelligent, fellow psycho-babbler.)

Lamictal: One of the newer anti-epileptic drugs (AEDs). All of them increase GABA, and most of them are N-methyl-d-aspartate (NMDA) antagonists. Lamictal inhibits the release of glutamate. It also acts on and interacts with voltage-sensitive sodium channels.

OK. From what I've learned, a lot of research in recent years has pointed to over expression of the brains primary excititory neurotransmitter glutamate and/or increased sensitivity of the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) recepter as being a possible cause or at least a contributing factor in the development of many neuro-degenerative diseases (Parkinson's, ALS, Alzheimers, etc.) and neurosomatic disorders (chronic fatigue, chronic pain, fibromyalgia, irritable bowel syndrome, pelvic inflamatory disease, non-bacterial prostatitis, etc.) Neurosomatic disorders as defined by Dr. Jay A. Goldstein in his book "Tuning the Brain" are disorders caused by or reflecting "inappropriate handling of sensory and cognitive input by the brain." Dr. Goldstein also believes that some chronic psychological conditions like depression and anxiety may also be neurosomatic disorders.

This hyperglutamatergic state, particularly in regards to its interaction with the N-methyl-D-aspartate (NMDA) receptor (aspartic acid being another major excititory neurotransmitter) may cause excitotoxicity, which can lead to neuronal cell death in a worse case scenerio. Particularly of dopamine producing neurons. (Hence it's implication in Parkinson's disease.) Although in the case of neurosomatic disorders a state of neurotransmitter imbalance as opposed to cell death is more likely. (I hope!) At least in the short term. To put it in plain English. Too much of a good thing (our excititory neurotransmitters) may be frying our brains! (My brain anyway...) This is why I stay away from Aspartame and MSG (monosodium glutamate).

This is one of the reasons why anti-epileptic drugs like Lamictal, Neurontin (it helped me), Pregabilin, etc., are proving to be so affective in a wide range of neurosomatic conditions. They may be neuro-protective. (Once again, remember I'm not a doctor or scientist so take this post and everything else you read on this website with a grain of salt. Unless you have high blood pressure and have been advised to restict your salt intake.)

Whew! Now my brain hurts. I need to take a nap. :-)

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro

Posted by KaraS on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:24

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS, posted by franco neuro on March 27, 2005, at 21:19:14

> Thank God I haven't lost my sense of humor...yet. I know I probably come off as being a little cynical but I swear I'm not. It's just that when it comes to matters of health the last 5 or 6 years have been really frustrating. And lets face it, frustration and anger are the last thing most of us on this website need more of. It's even worse when the source of these destructive feelings is the same medical community that's supposed to be helping us.


I think you're totally justified in your frustration. Many of us here understand exactly how you're feeling. It's hard enough dealing with our anxiety and depression without having to deal with difficult doctors! Just try to keep your sense of humor for your own sake!


> > Hopefully those very expensive tests will show him important information that will help him treat you.
>
> I'll buy that. And boy did I buy that. To the tune of $4000. And since I don't have health insurance right now, that's straight out of my pocket. So far I think it's money well spent. They did a lot of good blood tests and an EKG and an ultrasound of my heart. Not to forget the BEAM and personality tests. But every time I go they have a list of another $1000 dollars worth of tests that they want me to do. I mean come on! It's mostly the PA's that do the "suggesting." But I get the sense that they're told to push for a lot of testing. I tell them I'll get what I can afford. The last thing I need is to be nuts, in physical decline and living in a cardboard refrigerator box.


Yikes. That is expensive but what are the alternatives? To waste more time blindly trying to hit the target? Our time is very valuable too. We can't replace those lost years. I've lost about 25 of them now. I wish I had the option many years ago to take some tests that might have helped me. It's just too bad that it has to be out-of-pocket... I'm seriously considering doing the rEEG testing. My sister has offered to pay for it but I'm struggling with accepting that much help from her.


> > I would really like to read his later book, "Tuning the Brain". (Hopefully I could understand it enough to get some use out of it.)
>
>
> I just got it about three weeks ago. That's part of the reason I hadn't been posting. I was busy reading and rereading "Tuning the Brain". It is pretty heady stuff. But I've been trying to figure this stuff out for a while and it was just the book I was waiting for. I love it. It's become my brain chemistry Bible. (By the way Happy Easter! Unless your Jewish than Happy? Passover! If your an atheist than just...Happy!)

Thanks. I will try to get a hold of that book too. I'm so bummed that the library doesn't have it. They have his earlier one though.

Happy belated Easter or happy Passover to you too. (Actually I am Jewish so I appreciate your inclusion of Passover.)

Take care,
Kara

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS

Posted by ed_uk on March 29, 2005, at 6:47:51

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:24

Happy Passover Kara :-)

Ed xx

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY ed_uk

Posted by KaraS on March 29, 2005, at 13:18:48

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS, posted by ed_uk on March 29, 2005, at 6:47:51

> Happy Passover Kara :-)
>
> Ed xx


Thanks Ed. Actually it doesn't start until April 23rd. It's usually close to the time of Easter but for some reason this year it's a month later. (But your good wishes will keep.)

K

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS

Posted by franco neuro on March 29, 2005, at 20:52:11

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 28, 2005, at 23:57:24

> Yikes. That is expensive but what are the alternatives? To waste more time blindly trying to hit the target? Our time is very valuable too. We can't replace those lost years. I've lost about 25 of them now.

Right you are. I've known something was off since I was 14 or 15 years old. Which was also about 25 years ago. I started getting buzzing in my left ear and the hair on my legs started falling out. And it had just grown in! Can't say I've lost all off those years though. But I've certainly lost the last few.

OK no more bellyaching on my part. I picked up my bupropion SR today and will commence popping tomorrow morning. Wish me luck...

 

Re: Good luck! (nm) franco neuro

Posted by KaraS on March 30, 2005, at 1:34:43

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS, posted by franco neuro on March 29, 2005, at 20:52:11

 

Thanks...pill popping has commenced!!! (nm) KaraS

Posted by franco neuro on March 30, 2005, at 10:46:37

In reply to Re: Good luck! (nm) franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 30, 2005, at 1:34:43

 

Re: Good luck!

Posted by banga on March 30, 2005, at 12:57:38

In reply to Re: Good luck! (nm) franco neuro, posted by KaraS on March 30, 2005, at 1:34:43

Thank you very much for the responses!! I increased Lamictal recently and I think it is helping the effectiveness of my med mix.
I will have to read up on the literature mentioned.

 

Thanks... banga

Posted by franco neuro on March 30, 2005, at 19:07:00

In reply to Re: Good luck!, posted by banga on March 30, 2005, at 12:57:38

Had a pretty good first day. I can't wait to try it again tomorrow. If this stuff helps I may consider augmenting it with some Lamictal down the road. Or perhaps one of the other anti-convulsants like Neurontin, Lyrica or Keppra. But first things first...

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY

Posted by temoigneur on March 31, 2005, at 21:54:45

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY KaraS, posted by franco neuro on March 29, 2005, at 20:52:11

> > Yikes. That is expensive but what are the alternatives? To waste more time blindly trying to hit the target? Our time is very valuable too. We can't replace those lost years. I've lost about 25 of them now.
>
> Right you are. I've known something was off since I was 14 or 15 years old. Which was also about 25 years ago. I started getting buzzing in my left ear and the hair on my legs started falling out. And it had just grown in! Can't say I've lost all off those years though. But I've certainly lost the last few.
>
> OK no more bellyaching on my part. I picked up my bupropion SR today and will commence popping tomorrow morning. Wish me luck...


Hi Franco, anyone else new.. I have severe anxiety and it's eliminated by clomipramine, but it leaves me apathetic. I took prozac until it pooped out four months later, and if anything found them a little activating. TCA's however, truly are 'dumb drugs' for me. I used to be really ambitious, I wanted to be a physician, couldn't stand waiting around... now I'm not depressed but just remembering how things werefor 4 short months before prozac pooped-out , I think, what a waste. Interesting how the description of SSRI's numbing emotion and ambition parallel my experience with clomipramine. I was imipramine before and had the same effect. Any advice?

 

Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY temoigneur

Posted by franco neuro on April 1, 2005, at 1:03:23

In reply to Re: SSRI INDUCED APATHY, posted by temoigneur on March 31, 2005, at 21:54:45

Hi and welcome aboard,

> TCA's however, truly are 'dumb drugs' for me. I used to be really ambitious, I wanted to be a physician, couldn't stand waiting around... now I'm not depressed but just remembering how things werefor 4 short months before prozac pooped-out , I think, what a waste.

Boy do I know the feeling. TCA's do come with a lot of baggage. I don't know if it's the anticholinergic activity, or that there may be some low level cardiotoxicity that occurs in some people with chronic use, or if it is just their particular mode of uptake inhibition, but all I can say is that over the course of the last few years I've developed what appears to be a big empty space where my heart used to be. I've come to realize that feeling nothing is even worse that feeling rotten.

I used to be passionate about life. I found the world to be a very interesting and exciting place. In hindsight maybe I was too "excited." Maybe that's what caused me to start burning out so young. It's akin to being a sparkler instead of a slow burning candle. All those excited "sparks" bouncing around my nervous system ultimately burned the house down! A process that was no doubt hastened by my pitifully uninformed medication choices these past five or six years. In my case I've come to believe that my "burning out" was, in fact, the depletion of my chatacholamines. While the jury is still out on whether dopamine causes us to feel pleasure, there's little doubt that it's what causes us to seek it. I sure as heck haven't been seeking much of it lately. And seeking pleasure, however one chooses to define it, is pretty much what makes life worth living. Unfortunately, over the past 25 years or so, the medical/scientific community has come to the false conclusion that more serotonin is the answer to everyone's' problems.

Having said all that, if the Wellbutrin (dopamine/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor of rather mysterious kinetics) I just started taking doesn't give me at least some improvement, I'm pretty much back up sh*t's creek looking for another paddle. I will never again waste years on a drug that isn't getting the job done. Read, research and of course discuss with your doctor other options. That's pretty much the only advice I can give you. That and to try and learn something about your brain/body from the way it reacts to the medications you take. Here's a site with some good drug info...

http://www.preskorn.com/

By the way, you said Prozac was helping but pooped out. Did you try another SSRI after that? If it helps some but still causes apathy you might consider adding Wellbutrin to the mix. i.e. "Well-loft" (Wellbutrin + Zoloft) which seems to be gaining some popularity.


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