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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 9 of 9. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jen2 on March 4, 2005, at 21:32:02
Hi folks,
Maybe one of you biochemists / pharmaceutical specialists can answer this question:
Why is it that Effexor makes me not give a flying f**k about a whole variety of things - like getting my work done on time, taking up smoking again, eating bad food (like potato chips), and generally doing a bunch of things that aren't very good for me...? Is there a biochemical reason, or is this just about not having anxiety anymore to push me to do things (which would get at the issue of how related anxiety is to motivation / guilt / behavioural controls)?
(I've already posted about the lack of anxiety / anxiety - motivation issue once, so thanks to those who responded to that.)
Anybody have any ideas?
Jen
PS - Anybody heard from Matt or Jeroen?
Posted by Jen2 on March 4, 2005, at 22:06:11
In reply to Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor?, posted by Jen2 on March 4, 2005, at 21:32:02
I meant to mention this - it seems as though I have the same kind of lowered inhibition effects that one gets from alcohol, but without the drunk feeling. This doesn't apply to everything in my life, but certainly some of the things that I generally have to actively / consciously prevent myself from doing (like the potato chip thing; very bad).
Thanks,
Jen
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 8:24:51
In reply to Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor?, posted by Jen2 on March 4, 2005, at 21:32:02
There is something in the Tips section of Babble about SSRI's having a disinhibiting effect in certain people. I'm one of them. I guess when your apathy goes up, your normal guards against inappropriate behavior go down.
I think it concluded, and I'm paraphrasing bigtime here from something I read long ago, that if you work hard at not doing something, the effect of SSRI's would make it harder to keep up the effort to work hard at not doing it, You would say "oh, so what" and do it.
But for the exact same behavior in another person, who does it or doesn't do it for a different reason than hard work, it might have a completely different effect.
So I, for instance, found a huge increase in my self injury on Luvox, but other people find reductions in self injury. It depends a lot on the inner dynamics of the motivation to do or not do it.
I wasn't on Effexor long enough to discover if it had the same effect, but it works on serotonin, so maybe it does.
Posted by Ritch on March 5, 2005, at 9:58:20
In reply to Re: Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor? » Jen2, posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 8:24:51
> There is something in the Tips section of Babble about SSRI's having a disinhibiting effect in certain people. I'm one of them. I guess when your apathy goes up, your normal guards against inappropriate behavior go down.
>
> I think it concluded, and I'm paraphrasing bigtime here from something I read long ago, that if you work hard at not doing something, the effect of SSRI's would make it harder to keep up the effort to work hard at not doing it, You would say "oh, so what" and do it.
>
> But for the exact same behavior in another person, who does it or doesn't do it for a different reason than hard work, it might have a completely different effect.
>
> So I, for instance, found a huge increase in my self injury on Luvox, but other people find reductions in self injury. It depends a lot on the inner dynamics of the motivation to do or not do it.
>
> I wasn't on Effexor long enough to discover if it had the same effect, but it works on serotonin, so maybe it does.Hi Dinah, I thought I would note something that I've been finding over the last several weeks.. I read JRBecker's post about the antidepressant induced irritability syndrome from two or three periods back (as relates to bipolar, etc.). Anyhow, I take a microcosmal dose of liquid Celexa (about 1/2 mg) every other day. I have charted and found for SURE that on the days that I take the Celexa .. I get a mild "cruel streak" towards other people and get easily irritated over minor stuff. But if I stop it for several days my anxiety gets WORSE. It is like some kind of *displacement* thing. If I don't take it, the anxiety goes UP. If I DO take it, anxiety goes down, but irritability goes UP. I believe it has to do with disinhibition processes as you mention above.. however .. that would be assuming that the cruel "streak" would have been there in the first place and that it is an impulse that isn't acted upon (without the disinhibiting SSRI). BUT, it really kind of seems that the chemical "setting" or "environment" in my head that the SSRI creates *fosters* this instead of just "letting an impulse out" that already exists. Sorry for the rambling, but it is just a phenomenon that is for real and creates this dilemma for me (and probably a lot of others)---- take an SSRI feel less anxious/panicky, but lose empathy towards others and become cruel somehow versus don't take the SSRI and feel panicked, uptight, and crappy.
Posted by Phillipa on March 5, 2005, at 16:20:00
In reply to Re: Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor? » Dinah, posted by Ritch on March 5, 2005, at 9:58:20
Both Matt and Jeroen are on the Board. Jeroen is still not taking his seroquel and his eye is twitching, and Matt just reappeared on a Thread further down the Board. He's not talking though. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 16:33:40
In reply to Re: Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor? » Dinah, posted by Ritch on March 5, 2005, at 9:58:20
Hi Ritch!
Perhaps you'd feel better if you took a reduced dose of citalopram on a daily basis rather than taking it on alternate days. Citalopram has quite a short elimination half-life, because of this, taking it on alternate days might cause your blood level to fluctuate quite a bit from day to day.
Best Regards,
Ed.
Posted by Ritch on March 5, 2005, at 22:15:27
In reply to Re: Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor? » Ritch, posted by ed_uk on March 5, 2005, at 16:33:40
> Hi Ritch!
>
> Perhaps you'd feel better if you took a reduced dose of citalopram on a daily basis rather than taking it on alternate days. Citalopram has quite a short elimination half-life, because of this, taking it on alternate days might cause your blood level to fluctuate quite a bit from day to day.
>
> Best Regards,
> Ed.That would be accurate, but as an *experiment* I chose to take it on alternate days consistently, to see if I could weed out external stressors as triggers of irritability as opposed to internal *processes* triggering the irritability. I just have found that the SSRI is the TRUE trigger.
Posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 23:01:37
In reply to Re: Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor? » Dinah, posted by Ritch on March 5, 2005, at 9:58:20
Hmmm... My agression was turned inwards, I suppose. And I know the impulses are always there, or are there under stress on a regular basis. So in my case the disinhibition theory pretty much accounts for what happens. I didn't get urges to SI more frequently on Luvox. I just acted on the urges more frequently.
Posted by xxNightOwl28 on March 6, 2005, at 0:17:28
In reply to Re: Why apathy / bad behaviour on Effexor? » Jen2, posted by Dinah on March 5, 2005, at 8:24:51
I relate to this completely since starting Effexor Xr 150mg three years ago I:
1.stopped going to GA and went to Casinos/Lost $3,000
2.infrequently going to AA/NA meetings however luckily have not used any and still sober.
3.drink soda now daily as before I never did ever.
Now I am not saying my personal choice did not have something to do with this but Effexor appears to make me do things I know are wrong as to say Awwwww Its No Big Deal, well it is to me.
This is the end of the thread.
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