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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 14:10:22
Yeah, so I am back on the Parnate now. You know you have run out of options when you end up where you started.
I quit my job.
Life is awful right now.
I see my pdoc tomorrow. I don't know why I bother. We have nothing to talk about. There is nothing to do. He should focus his energy on people he can help.
Maxine
Posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 17:54:19
In reply to Round and Round we go...., posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 14:10:22
Hi Maxime,
I was thinking of you the other day and contemplating about ways to prevent poopout from your Parnate. By any chance were you taking extra vitamin B6? With people taking MAOIs I've heard that it can become depleted very easily. If you had become deficient in it, it may have robbed your body of an important enzyme needed to allow Parnate to work properly. It may have taken awhile for your body to deplete it as well, which may explain why it lasted as long as it did. Just a thought...
As well, when you tried lithium augmentation before... did you drink many fluids and keep your sodium intake up? Lack of hydration, especially sodium can drastically effect the toxicity of lithium which is something you were saying you were having a problem with before. Lithium needs to be bound to sodium in order to be expelled from the body. The extra sodium may also help with mid-day hypotension when on Parnate. And as you may possibly know lithium is supposed to be one of the best augmenters to prevent AD poopout.
Hopefully one of those suggestions will be of help, or at least steer you in a new direction to allow for a smoother ride.
Your fellow Parnate buddy, :)
Brian
Posted by Phillipa on March 3, 2005, at 18:10:31
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 17:54:19
Gee Maxime, I hadn't seem any Posts from you in a while and assumed you were feeling better. Was it a good thing that you quit your job? Did you want to? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 21:33:24
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 17:54:19
Thanks Brian, I take 100 mg of B6 a day in B vitamin tablet. I should see how much the body needs.
I drank plenty of fluids while on the Lithium because I knew that I had to. Yet I still had so many problems with it. I've tried it twice or 3 times already and I don't want to try it again. I drink a lot of water on a daily basis regardless of meds (over 8 cups a day).
I will look into the B6 though.
Thanks again,
Maxime
> Hi Maxime,
>
> I was thinking of you the other day and contemplating about ways to prevent poopout from your Parnate. By any chance were you taking extra vitamin B6? With people taking MAOIs I've heard that it can become depleted very easily. If you had become deficient in it, it may have robbed your body of an important enzyme needed to allow Parnate to work properly. It may have taken awhile for your body to deplete it as well, which may explain why it lasted as long as it did. Just a thought...
>
> As well, when you tried lithium augmentation before... did you drink many fluids and keep your sodium intake up? Lack of hydration, especially sodium can drastically effect the toxicity of lithium which is something you were saying you were having a problem with before. Lithium needs to be bound to sodium in order to be expelled from the body. The extra sodium may also help with mid-day hypotension when on Parnate. And as you may possibly know lithium is supposed to be one of the best augmenters to prevent AD poopout.
>
> Hopefully one of those suggestions will be of help, or at least steer you in a new direction to allow for a smoother ride.
>
> Your fellow Parnate buddy, :)
>
> Brian
Posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 21:37:37
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas..., posted by Phillipa on March 3, 2005, at 18:10:31
No I am still feeling very bad. I couldn't post. Yes, it is a good thing that I quit. Good for my mental and physical health. But now bad for my anxiety because of money issues.
I see my pdoc tomorrow. I hope he decides to throw me into the hospital. I can't seem to make that decision on my own and I just want him to do it for me.
Maxime
> Gee Maxime, I hadn't seem any Posts from you in a while and assumed you were feeling better. Was it a good thing that you quit your job? Did you want to? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by FredPotter on March 3, 2005, at 22:07:42
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas..., posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 21:37:37
Dear Maxime have you been offered or had ECT? I know I'd have it if I got bad enough. At present I'm in good shape because, well who knows? I've realised I need to be with people and they need me! Also L-Tyrosine appears to give me my energy back. In a month or so it might all turn to custard though.
When you say you're back where you started, can you please list everything you've tried, if you feel up to it? I don't know if I'll be able to help. I'm a bit up myself sometimes. What did the pdoc say? Sounds like a second opinion is needed.
All the best
keep in touch
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on March 3, 2005, at 22:32:54
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas..., posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 21:37:37
I'm sorry Maxime, I wish I could Babble you, but you are not signed up I guess. I do know that B6 acts as a natural diuretic. My OBGYN told me this in the years I had wt gain from PMS. Sometimes I take it especially in the summer when you naturally retain fluids. Maybe having the pdoc make the decision is best for you at this time. Then you won't have to make lengthly explainations to people. It may relieve any guilt you may have. Please let me know what you decide to do. You can Babble me. Please sleep well, and try to feel well. I'll be thinking of you. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 22:44:07
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas..., posted by Maxime on March 3, 2005, at 21:33:24
> I drank plenty of fluids while on the Lithium because I knew that I had to. Yet I still had so many problems with it. I've tried it twice or 3 times already and I don't want to try it again. I drink a lot of water on a daily basis regardless of meds (over 8 cups a day).Maxime,
What about your intake of sodium? That is the real key with lithium toxicity, since it needs to be bound to be excreted. If you follow a low sodium diet due to wanting to stay thin or whatever reason it will make you severely toxic.
Brian
Posted by Maxime on March 4, 2005, at 23:24:45
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by FredPotter on March 3, 2005, at 22:07:42
Hello Fred:
I've been on over 40 meds (plus combos)to date. I am only 36 years old.
Today my PDOC asked me about ECT. I said "no way!". I know it can help people. I have seen it help people when I have been in the hospital. However, I know several people personally who have lost both long term and short term memory. And ECT is not a one time deal. You often need booster shots. Also, I am worried about my IQ. I have an IQ in the 180 range and I have a problem with frying my brain. At the same time however, I think I am probably doing the same thing via chemicals ...
We also talked about Deep Brain Stimulation. Oddly enough, I am willing to have holes drilled into my head and have this procedure. There are researchers just one Province away from where I live who are recruiting volunteers. My PDOC is going to contact them. We shall see.
Thanks for caring Fred.
Maxime
> Dear Maxime have you been offered or had ECT? I know I'd have it if I got bad enough. At present I'm in good shape because, well who knows? I've realised I need to be with people and they need me! Also L-Tyrosine appears to give me my energy back. In a month or so it might all turn to custard though.
>
> When you say you're back where you started, can you please list everything you've tried, if you feel up to it? I don't know if I'll be able to help. I'm a bit up myself sometimes. What did the pdoc say? Sounds like a second opinion is needed.
>
> All the best
> keep in touch
> Fred
Posted by Maxime on March 4, 2005, at 23:33:40
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by Optimist on March 3, 2005, at 22:44:07
Um, yes. (blush) Well, naturally my anorexia would come into play here. However, the second time I tried Lithium I did force myself to add sodium to my diet. Actually I consumed salt by itself. The same thing happened.
I also realise that my low intake of food is causing part of the depression. However, I suffered from depression long before I suffered from anorexia.
Sigh. I'm a bloody mess.
Maxime
>
> > I drank plenty of fluids while on the Lithium because I knew that I had to. Yet I still had so many problems with it. I've tried it twice or 3 times already and I don't want to try it again. I drink a lot of water on a daily basis regardless of meds (over 8 cups a day).
>
> Maxime,
>
> What about your intake of sodium? That is the real key with lithium toxicity, since it needs to be bound to be excreted. If you follow a low sodium diet due to wanting to stay thin or whatever reason it will make you severely toxic.
>
> Brian
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2005, at 23:42:16
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » FredPotter, posted by Maxime on March 4, 2005, at 23:24:45
Maxime, do you really feel that bad? Please Babble me so we can talk. This seems like an extreme measure to me. I remember being in the hospital where a middleaged woman was determined to kill herself as her twin brother had done. No one could talk her out of it. They gave her ECT. She could no longer do anything for herself, or remember anything. It totally changed her. She went home for a brief time while I was still there, came back a few days later in a worse state. I really think you should seek a new pdoc or something first. Sometimes I wish I could have ECT so I would forget the things I don't want to remember, but unfortunatly that's not how it works. Now, I wouldn't discourage anyone from something if they truly believed it would help, and the pdocs did also. But, please seek another opinion. Okay? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on March 4, 2005, at 23:44:42
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas..., posted by Phillipa on March 3, 2005, at 22:32:54
Hi Phillipa:
I have no guilt or feel no shame about going inpatient. But I feel that as long my pdoc sees no need for me to go inpatient, then I will not go. I don't feel like I deserve a bed in a hospital.That I am not worthy of help.
It is the same with my intake of calories. If my pdoc does not have a problem with my consuming only 500 calories a day, then I take it as a green light to go ahead and continue to self destruct.
B6 is a natural diuretic ... that is good to know.
How much did she suggest you take?Maxime
> I'm sorry Maxime, I wish I could Babble you, but you are not signed up I guess. I do know that B6 acts as a natural diuretic. My OBGYN told me this in the years I had wt gain from PMS. Sometimes I take it especially in the summer when you naturally retain fluids. Maybe having the pdoc make the decision is best for you at this time. Then you won't have to make lengthly explainations to people. It may relieve any guilt you may have. Please let me know what you decide to do. You can Babble me. Please sleep well, and try to feel well. I'll be thinking of you. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2005, at 23:56:36
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Phillipa, posted by Maxime on March 4, 2005, at 23:44:42
You are depressed. I can tell from your sense of unworthiness. You are a bright, intelligent, caring person. Please don't take this away from yourself. I wish I could contact you. I think I took 50mg of B6. It seemed to work for PMS. Please eat more. At least get a good protein drink. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on March 5, 2005, at 0:48:02
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by Phillipa on March 4, 2005, at 23:42:16
I will have to change my email addy to babble. I will if I can ...
I don't want ECT. I won't do it. My pdoc said he is going to look into medication studies that are being conducted at the psychiatric hospital where he works.
You are so sweet Phillipa ...
Maxime
> Maxime, do you really feel that bad? Please Babble me so we can talk. This seems like an extreme measure to me. I remember being in the hospital where a middleaged woman was determined to kill herself as her twin brother had done. No one could talk her out of it. They gave her ECT. She could no longer do anything for herself, or remember anything. It totally changed her. She went home for a brief time while I was still there, came back a few days later in a worse state. I really think you should seek a new pdoc or something first. Sometimes I wish I could have ECT so I would forget the things I don't want to remember, but unfortunatly that's not how it works. Now, I wouldn't discourage anyone from something if they truly believed it would help, and the pdocs did also. But, please seek another opinion. Okay? Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2005, at 13:36:20
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » FredPotter, posted by Maxime on March 4, 2005, at 23:24:45
Hey Maxime that hole in the head procedure looks really promising. I'd give it a go if I had to. But what do I know? IQ of 180. Good grief. I think mine must be in the low teens. Best of luck and please let me know how you get on
love
Fred
Posted by ed_uk on March 6, 2005, at 15:27:01
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2005, at 13:36:20
Hi Fred!
>IQ of 180. Good grief. I think mine must be in the low teens.
LOL, you write in an intelligent way so that's always a good sign :-)
Ed.
Posted by Maxime on March 6, 2005, at 21:28:24
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2005, at 13:36:20
> Hey Maxime that hole in the head procedure looks really promising. I'd give it a go if I had to. But what do I know? IQ of 180. Good grief. I think mine must be in the low teens. Best of luck and please let me know how you get on
> love
> FredFred, if you had an IQ in the low teens you would be a vegetable. So what type of vegetable would you be?(giggle)
I think I would like to be an asparagus because they are tall and thin whereas I am short and squat! But truth be told, I would probably be a fiddlehead. :(
I believe DBS is less drastic than ECT but no one seems to agree with me. I suppose the chance of a hemorrhage does bump up the risks, but I am willing to take that chance.
My doctor is merely placating me right now and pretending that he thinks DBS might be the answer. At my last appointment I said there was no point in making another appointment because there is nothing else to do or try. He said that I had to come back to give him the contact information for the recruitment process re. the research being conducted in Toronto. I told him I could fax it to him. Then he said that he would look into any suitable studies being conducted at the psychiatric hospital where he works and that I had to come back to discuss some options.
Sigh. Fine Doctor, I will play along one more time, but that is it. I see him on the 15th.
I am hopeless and worthless.
Maxime
Posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2005, at 22:20:53
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas..., posted by Maxime on March 6, 2005, at 21:28:24
Maxime you don't *sound* hopeless and worthless. I have a "voice" that tells me these things when I go depressed. Not really a voice you understand. It comes from the left hand side of my head. Also that Life is empty and meaningless. That is both frightening and depressing. I can't analyse it. It's a feeling. Sometimes I feel like my blood's full of poison and that I ache (oky koky style "whole self in" hurrah).
I've been feeling together for a few weeks now. Like a jigsaw that's been put back together. And the really encouraging part for me and for everyone of us, is that this feels right. The other state felt wrong then and feels wrong now. This happy state felt the right one then and it does now. See what I mean by my IQ being that of the average piece of washing.
Maxime, what's your view of therapy? Mine's pretty poor. I saw a Human Givens Therapist once in York, UK. They say that if we're depressed it's because we're short on one or more of things like security, connection with the wider community, intimacy, sense of purpose. My view is even if it's true, particularly since the breakup of extended families, we need some physical or pharmaceutical help in order to get them back.
Please keep us in touch
Lots of love
Fred
Posted by ed_uk on March 7, 2005, at 5:29:01
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2005, at 22:20:53
> I saw a Human Givens Therapist once in York, UK.
I'm curious, where are you from? I ask because I'm from Yorkshire.
Ed.
Posted by Maxime on March 7, 2005, at 14:09:40
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » Maxime, posted by FredPotter on March 6, 2005, at 22:20:53
Yes, I know don't sound hopeless. I know I do not sound or look depressed according to many. But I don't show people the real me. If I did they would run in the other direction.
I have a voice that tells me I am worthless. That I do not deserve help or food. That I am a burden to my family. That I take up too much space. I feel hopeless all the time because so many doctors have said they can help me, but nothing has helped. I have been through therapy. I do self-help books. I try when I can. Sometimes I can't try and just getting up in the morning is all I can manage. I have attemted suicide several times and was so close to being successful in my last attempt (actually my heart stopped so I guess I did succeed for a minute or so). I have a death wish. I am tired now and I think I have done my best to try and get better and that if I should decide to leave this world that it would not be selfish at all. If people knew the pain I was in. The pressure in my brain when hypomania hits.
I am glad you are feeling better right now.
I think therapy is important. I believe that medication is a tool to help clear the fog enough so that we can be receptive to therapy. Right now I would not do well in therapy because although I can write, my speech is pressured. I have trouble finishing a sentence. I have no emotion in my face. Group therapy can be helpful as well. Because sometimes people in the group will challenge your beliefs etc. I need cognitive behavioural approaches to therapy because I need to train my mind to view "me" differently. I see myself as a fat, ugly, worthless and vile person. So in my case therapy can help. But I can't afford it and right now I am not able to do it.
I'm sorry for the long ramble. Did I even answer your question?
Maxime
> Maxime you don't *sound* hopeless and worthless. I have a "voice" that tells me these things when I go depressed. Not really a voice you understand. It comes from the left hand side of my head. Also that Life is empty and meaningless. That is both frightening and depressing. I can't analyse it. It's a feeling. Sometimes I feel like my blood's full of poison and that I ache (oky koky style "whole self in" hurrah).
>
> I've been feeling together for a few weeks now. Like a jigsaw that's been put back together. And the really encouraging part for me and for everyone of us, is that this feels right. The other state felt wrong then and feels wrong now. This happy state felt the right one then and it does now. See what I mean by my IQ being that of the average piece of washing.
>
> Maxime, what's your view of therapy? Mine's pretty poor. I saw a Human Givens Therapist once in York, UK. They say that if we're depressed it's because we're short on one or more of things like security, connection with the wider community, intimacy, sense of purpose. My view is even if it's true, particularly since the breakup of extended families, we need some physical or pharmaceutical help in order to get them back.
>
> Please keep us in touch
>
> Lots of love
> Fred
Posted by FredPotter on March 7, 2005, at 15:41:48
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » FredPotter, posted by ed_uk on March 7, 2005, at 5:29:01
Hi Ed - Midlands, Cotswolds, London, Aberystwyth and now New Zealand. I was over on a trip when I went to York. The Human Givens Institute is in St Saviour's Place, York and is run by a nice lady called Rita Leaman
Fred
Posted by ed_uk on March 8, 2005, at 5:28:00
In reply to Re: Augmentation ideas... » ed_uk, posted by FredPotter on March 7, 2005, at 15:41:48
Hey Fred,
You've lived in lots of places! I haven't traveled much myslef, but would like to :-)
All the best,
Ed.
This is the end of the thread.
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