![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 19:14:47
Hi
I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
Please, tell me about the weight gain.
Maxime
Posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 21:37:12
In reply to Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 19:14:47
It's awful waiting for someone to answer one your posts. It's like when I was younger and would wait for the guy who took me out to call me again like he promised. Of course there are no promises here and we are all adults. Still, it's not fun.
Maxime
Posted by JACJ on January 25, 2005, at 22:15:45
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 21:37:12
Maxime,
I wished I had answers for you but I am not familiar with Nardil. I really hope you find an answer and I hope you feel better.Hugs,
JACJ
Posted by jerrympls on January 25, 2005, at 23:22:29
In reply to Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 19:14:47
> Hi
>
> I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
>
> My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
>
> But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
>
> How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
>
> For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
>
> I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
>
> Please, tell me about the weight gain.
>
> MaximeMaxime-
I was on Nardil and did NOT have any weight gain. It didn't make me crave anything either.
Jerry
Posted by johnsmith12345 on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:53
In reply to Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 19:14:47
Nobody can give you definitive answer to whether or not Nardil will cause you to gain weight. You need to try it for yourself. I would say there is a fifty fifty chance, maybe less since you are taking stimulants. But, if you do begin to gain weight you will notice very quickly, and you can stop the Nardil. No harm done.
Posted by Willyee on January 26, 2005, at 2:36:18
In reply to Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 19:14:47
I cant flat out recomend this,because everyone is different.But i am fighting parnate poop out myself after failing on nardil in the past.
One thing i use a lot of times with the parnate is a caffiene pill.
Now i dont know about nardil,i understand it is thought to be more ir-reversable,and have a longer half life than parnate,as well as have reaction possablities more than parnate as well.
All i can say is with parnate,at the most the caffeine helps greatly with parnate,at the least it wont make a difference,but i have zero problems using the two,but it may be something to ask about if the drowsiness is a big problem.
I hesitated about caffiene at first,but then i looked at how much coffee and cola my family friends,and myself had consumed through a normal day,and it dident seem crazy anymore,i did cut out caffeine from other sources just to be on the safer side of daily intake.Youll actualy find some atricles where its believed caffeine has some protective effects on dopamine.Good luck.
> Hi
>
> I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
>
> My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
>
> But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
>
> How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
>
> For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
>
> I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
>
> Please, tell me about the weight gain.
>
> Maxime
Posted by Ktemene on January 26, 2005, at 11:10:04
In reply to Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 25, 2005, at 19:14:47
> Hi
>
> I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
>
> My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
>
> But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
>
> How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
>
> For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
>
> I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
>
> Please, tell me about the weight gain.
>
> MaximeHi Maxime,
I am sorry to hear you are having such a bad time. I have never been on Nardil, but I was (and am) on Remeron and Adderall. As you know, Remeron is notorious for weight gain. I was worried about this, because about 5 years ago my pdoc had me on an SSRI + lithium, and I gained a lot of weight. (I didn't realize myself how much I gained at the time, because I did not weight myself. But after I lost the weight, my friends who had not seen me in a while said things like: Wow, you look like you have lost 40 pounds! My conclusion from those remarks is that I really gained an enormous amount of weight from the SSRI + Lithium combo.) But at the time that I gained that weight, Adderall was not part of my combo.I started taking Remeron about three months ago, to help deal with anxiety issues. I was very concerned about weight gain, because of the earlier experience with med-induced weight gain. But I need not have worried. My med cocktail for the last six months has been 20 mg Adderall + 400mg Provigil + 5 mg Selegiline + DLPA. Before I started Remeron, I was sort of careless about making sure that I took the whole 20 mg Adderall over the course of the day. I think of Adderall mostly as a med to help me concentrate, rather than as an antidepressant. So when I did not need to concentrate, I did not take Adderall. Then I started low dose Remeron. My appetite did increase. I started gaining a bit of weight. And then I decided to stop being careless about taking Adderall. I started making sure that I took full dose over the course of the day; and I got a pill cutter to divide it into smaller bits. I took Adderall whenever I thought I was excessively hungry. And it was very effective. So was taking extra DLPA. I lost the few Remeron pounds I had gained and actually lost a few pounds beyond that. Now I am taking higher doses of Remeron, and since, as you know, increased appetite is a side-effect mostly at the lower doses, I don't need to depend on Adderall and DLPA so much to control my weight. But I remember being very grateful at the time (when I started Remeron and started gaining weight) that I had Adderall to counter it.
Of course, YMMV. But I would say that your Adderall will be a very effective defense against weight gain if you do decide to go onto Nardil.
Concerning alternatives, I know you have tried a lot of meds without much luck. But I thought I would mention that the Selegiline patch should be available fairly soon. And, if I remember correctly, you have not tried Selegiline yet, and the patch delivery system is supposed to make it especially helpful. You respond pretty well to MAOIs. The Selegiline patch may be a good option for you. (Unlike Parnate, Selegiline is not known for the strange fatigue/sleepiness attacks that Parnate sometimes produces.) Also, I know that you do not want to try ETC. But have you considered trying TMS? There is, as far as I have heard, no danger of losing memory or any of the other bad effects of ETC, and it does help some people a lot. Pfinstegg, for instance, had great success with it.
Hang in there! And keep posting!
Ktemene
Posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 19:57:16
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED » Maxime, posted by Ktemene on January 26, 2005, at 11:10:04
Thank for your response. What is Selegiline? Does it go by another name? TMS is readily available in Canada yet (please someone correct me if they know otherwise!). And what DLPA?
I'm sorry for all the questions ...
Maxime
> > Hi
> >
> > I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
> >
> > My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
> >
> > But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
> >
> > How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
> >
> > For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
> >
> > I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
> >
> > Please, tell me about the weight gain.
> >
> > Maxime
>
> Hi Maxime,
> I am sorry to hear you are having such a bad time. I have never been on Nardil, but I was (and am) on Remeron and Adderall. As you know, Remeron is notorious for weight gain. I was worried about this, because about 5 years ago my pdoc had me on an SSRI + lithium, and I gained a lot of weight. (I didn't realize myself how much I gained at the time, because I did not weight myself. But after I lost the weight, my friends who had not seen me in a while said things like: Wow, you look like you have lost 40 pounds! My conclusion from those remarks is that I really gained an enormous amount of weight from the SSRI + Lithium combo.) But at the time that I gained that weight, Adderall was not part of my combo.
>
> I started taking Remeron about three months ago, to help deal with anxiety issues. I was very concerned about weight gain, because of the earlier experience with med-induced weight gain. But I need not have worried. My med cocktail for the last six months has been 20 mg Adderall + 400mg Provigil + 5 mg Selegiline + DLPA. Before I started Remeron, I was sort of careless about making sure that I took the whole 20 mg Adderall over the course of the day. I think of Adderall mostly as a med to help me concentrate, rather than as an antidepressant. So when I did not need to concentrate, I did not take Adderall. Then I started low dose Remeron. My appetite did increase. I started gaining a bit of weight. And then I decided to stop being careless about taking Adderall. I started making sure that I took full dose over the course of the day; and I got a pill cutter to divide it into smaller bits. I took Adderall whenever I thought I was excessively hungry. And it was very effective. So was taking extra DLPA. I lost the few Remeron pounds I had gained and actually lost a few pounds beyond that. Now I am taking higher doses of Remeron, and since, as you know, increased appetite is a side-effect mostly at the lower doses, I don't need to depend on Adderall and DLPA so much to control my weight. But I remember being very grateful at the time (when I started Remeron and started gaining weight) that I had Adderall to counter it.
>
> Of course, YMMV. But I would say that your Adderall will be a very effective defense against weight gain if you do decide to go onto Nardil.
>
> Concerning alternatives, I know you have tried a lot of meds without much luck. But I thought I would mention that the Selegiline patch should be available fairly soon. And, if I remember correctly, you have not tried Selegiline yet, and the patch delivery system is supposed to make it especially helpful. You respond pretty well to MAOIs. The Selegiline patch may be a good option for you. (Unlike Parnate, Selegiline is not known for the strange fatigue/sleepiness attacks that Parnate sometimes produces.) Also, I know that you do not want to try ETC. But have you considered trying TMS? There is, as far as I have heard, no danger of losing memory or any of the other bad effects of ETC, and it does help some people a lot. Pfinstegg, for instance, had great success with it.
>
> Hang in there! And keep posting!
> Ktemene
>
>
>
>
Posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 20:01:46
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Willyee on January 26, 2005, at 2:36:18
Hi. Actually when Parnate wasn't doing it's job my doctor told me to take it with a caffeine pill! I couldn't believe that a doctor would recommend that but he did. It helped marginally. That's when we tried Provigil, Ritalin and then Adderall XR. I feeling so exhausted on the Parnate. But I now I realise that most likely what I was feeling was depresion.
I'm starting the Nardil tonight. I will actually be taking Nardil and Parnate at the same time for a bit. Strange.
Thank you so much for your response. I really appreciate it.
Maxime
> I cant flat out recomend this,because everyone is different.But i am fighting parnate poop out myself after failing on nardil in the past.
>
> One thing i use a lot of times with the parnate is a caffiene pill.
>
> Now i dont know about nardil,i understand it is thought to be more ir-reversable,and have a longer half life than parnate,as well as have reaction possablities more than parnate as well.
>
> All i can say is with parnate,at the most the caffeine helps greatly with parnate,at the least it wont make a difference,but i have zero problems using the two,but it may be something to ask about if the drowsiness is a big problem.
>
> I hesitated about caffiene at first,but then i looked at how much coffee and cola my family friends,and myself had consumed through a normal day,and it dident seem crazy anymore,i did cut out caffeine from other sources just to be on the safer side of daily intake.Youll actualy find some atricles where its believed caffeine has some protective effects on dopamine.Good luck.
>
>
>
>
>
> > Hi
> >
> > I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
> >
> > My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
> >
> > But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
> >
> > How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
> >
> > For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
> >
> > I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
> >
> > Please, tell me about the weight gain.
> >
> > Maxime
>
>
Posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 20:03:19
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by johnsmith12345 on January 26, 2005, at 0:40:53
Yes, you are right. I was in such a state last night that I was thinking properly.
I can only hope that it doesn't.
Thanks John.
Maxime
> Nobody can give you definitive answer to whether or not Nardil will cause you to gain weight. You need to try it for yourself. I would say there is a fifty fifty chance, maybe less since you are taking stimulants. But, if you do begin to gain weight you will notice very quickly, and you can stop the Nardil. No harm done.
Posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 20:04:54
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED » Maxime, posted by jerrympls on January 25, 2005, at 23:22:29
Thanks Jerry, may I follow in your footsteps. I really hope I do.
Maxime
> Maxime-
>
> I was on Nardil and did NOT have any weight gain. It didn't make me crave anything either.
>
> Jerry
>
Posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 20:06:38
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by JACJ on January 25, 2005, at 22:15:45
> Maxime,
> I wished I had answers for you but I am not familiar with Nardil. I really hope you find an answer and I hope you feel better.
>
> Hugs,
> JACJ
How very sweet and kind of you! Thank you. I start taking it tonight. I will keep you posted.Hugs for you too,
Maxime
Posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2005, at 23:31:40
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED - JACJ, posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 20:06:38
Maxime,
I admire your courage in trying this despite your fears. I know in my case, the feeling of having my depression relieved was worth dealing with the side effects that came along with it.I don't mean to sound alarming, but I was under the impression that you had to wash out one MAOI before starting another. I was planning to speak with my doctor about switching to Parnate, but the tapering and washout period seemed like it would be difficult. What did your doc say about being on both at the same time? What dose are you on of Parnate and what dose of Nardil are you starting?
Thanks,
gg
Posted by KaraS on January 27, 2005, at 1:04:54
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED - Willyee, posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 20:01:46
> Hi. Actually when Parnate wasn't doing it's job my doctor told me to take it with a caffeine pill! I couldn't believe that a doctor would recommend that but he did. It helped marginally. That's when we tried Provigil, Ritalin and then Adderall XR. I feeling so exhausted on the Parnate. But I now I realise that most likely what I was feeling was depresion.
>
> I'm starting the Nardil tonight. I will actually be taking Nardil and Parnate at the same time for a bit. Strange.
>
> Thank you so much for your response. I really appreciate it.
>
> Maxime
>
>
> > I cant flat out recomend this,because everyone is different.But i am fighting parnate poop out myself after failing on nardil in the past.
> >
> > One thing i use a lot of times with the parnate is a caffiene pill.
> >
> > Now i dont know about nardil,i understand it is thought to be more ir-reversable,and have a longer half life than parnate,as well as have reaction possablities more than parnate as well.
> >
> > All i can say is with parnate,at the most the caffeine helps greatly with parnate,at the least it wont make a difference,but i have zero problems using the two,but it may be something to ask about if the drowsiness is a big problem.
> >
> > I hesitated about caffiene at first,but then i looked at how much coffee and cola my family friends,and myself had consumed through a normal day,and it dident seem crazy anymore,i did cut out caffeine from other sources just to be on the safer side of daily intake.Youll actualy find some atricles where its believed caffeine has some protective effects on dopamine.Good luck.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > I've been in denial for months now, but the Parnate is not working for me anymore. I didn't want to admit it because I've been on everything.
> > >
> > > My doctor wants me to try Nardil again. I was on it before but had to stop it because the sedation was overbearing. I could not function. But now I am taking Adderall so maybe it won't be as bad.
> > >
> > > But I am so scared about weight gain. You have no idea. I am anorexic and gaining weight is a huge issue. Unless you have had an eating disorder you cannot understand the fear I am going through even if there is a possibility that Nardil will bring me out of my depression.
> > >
> > > How much weight will I gain? Does it make you crave food the way zyprexa does? Weight gain leds to self-injury for me.
> > >
> > > For those of you who are on it, how many pounds have you gained. I need to know, please.
> > >
> > > I've been crying all afternoon. I just don't know if I can handle this.
> > >
> > > Please, tell me about the weight gain.
> > >
> > > Maxime
> >
> >
>
Maxime,
Everything I've read also states the you need to wash out for one week when changing between Parnate and Nardil.I also wanted to let you know that i've read a couple of posts here on Nardil in the last couple of weeks where people have said that they managed to avoid the Nardil carb craving by keeping their blood sugar constant. One poster described being on an Atkins type diet that worked for him or her. You might want to look over all of the Nardil posts if you haven't already.
Good luck.
Kara
Posted by sfy on January 27, 2005, at 12:01:00
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 19:57:16
> Thank for your response. What is Selegiline? Does it go by another name? TMS is readily available in Canada yet (please someone correct me if they know otherwise!). And what DLPA?
>
> I'm sorry for all the questions ...
>
> Maxime
>Selegiline is the generic name for Eldepryl, an MAOI that is usually given in low doses to treat Parkinson's Disease. Some people have found it useful at low doses (5-10 mg per day) which do not require a special diet. It is sometimes taken with dl-phenylalanine (DLPA), an amino acid that can improve your response.
Posted by Ktemene on January 27, 2005, at 20:07:13
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by Maxime on January 26, 2005, at 19:57:16
> Thank for your response. What is Selegiline? Does it go by another name? TMS is readily available in Canada yet (please someone correct me if they know otherwise!). And what DLPA?
>
> I'm sorry for all the questions ...
>
> Maxime
>Hi Maxime,
Selegiline is an unusual MAOI, also called Deprenyl or l-deprenyl, that is mostly prescribed for Parkinson's disease. But it is also useful as an antidepressant. If you search the "Tips" section of Babble, you will find some information about it. At low doses (10mg and under), Selegiline is mostly inhibiting MAO-B, so it is increasing the amount of dopamine and PEA (phenylethylamine) that is available in the brain. Some people react very positively to low dose Selegiline (I had a very positive response to 5mg), and these people do not have to worry about the usual MAOI diet restrictions, because MAO-A is not much effected. At higher doses Selegiline does inhibit MAO-A and so the diet restrictions apply. Selegiline is an interesting medicine. It appears to have neuroprotective properties; in fact some researchers think that Selegiline is effective in Parkinson's Disease primarily because of its neuroprotective effect on the dopamine producing neurons and only secondarily on account of it MAO-B inhibition. (This may also be why Selegiline extends the lifespan of rats and dogs in some experiments.)
But most people do not have a robust response to low dose Selegiline. The usual dose required for robust antidepressant effect is 40mg to 60mg. However, Selegiline does have one very important and apparently unique property. It is the only MAOI that lends itself to a transdermal (patch) delivery system. The great advantages of the transdermal patch are that the medication is being delivered in tiny amounts at a constant rate over a number of hours, and that the medication avoids the first pass effect because it does not have to enter the body through the gut and liver.
The reason I thought that the Selegiline patch might be a good option for you is that you have responded well to Parnate in the past. Selegiline is said to resemble Parnate very much. And the patch is a superior delivery system. So there is something out there (or will be very soon- Bristol-Meyers has bought the distribution rights to the patch) that you have not tried that is very promising. The patch is called Emsam.
A lot of people have been waiting for Emsam to get the final FDA approval. (It got the FDA's "approvable" stamp in Feb. 2004.) There has been a lot of discussion of Selegiline on Babble. I have copied links to some of the most useful threads below. I especially recommend Adam's posts about the Selegiline Patch.
DLPA an amino acid: DL-phenylalanine. It is a precursor to PEA (phenylethylamine) which acts like the body's own endogenous amphetamine. Some researchers think that PEA is responsible for the mood lift that people get from vigorous exercise (runner's high). PEA is rapidly degraded by MAO-B. So Selegiline and DLPA make a good combination, and some studies have showed a strong antidepressant effect from the combo. DLPA is also a precursor for dopamine. And the D isomer (but not the L isomer) inhibits the enzyme (enkephalinase) that degrades endorphins. So it is helpful for dealing with pain or potentiating pain medications.
I have copied below some links to threads that have a lot more information.
I hope you are going to be feeling better soon.
KtemeneAdam
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010310/msgs/56603.htmlhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/19991001/msgs/12397.html
Jemma
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030525/msgs/229420.htmlhttp://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030329/msgs/215120.html
Geranium20
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040418/msgs/350645.htmlHappySmurf
09http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040412/msgs/336766.htmlelleff
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040614/msgs/357744.htmlNemesis
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040811/msgs/377452.htmlPseudonym
www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041211/msgs/430276.html
Posted by Maxime on January 27, 2005, at 20:33:33
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED - » Maxime, posted by gardenergirl on January 26, 2005, at 23:31:40
Thanks. I don't think it's really courage. It more of a "I have no choice because it's this or nothing".
My pdoc has been using MAOIs since they came out. He is in 60's! I took 30 mg of Parnate and 30 of Nardil. Tomorrow I can stop the Parnate altogether and take 30mg of Nardil in the morning and 30mg at night. I will let you know how it goes.
Maxime
> Maxime,
> I admire your courage in trying this despite your fears. I know in my case, the feeling of having my depression relieved was worth dealing with the side effects that came along with it.
>
> I don't mean to sound alarming, but I was under the impression that you had to wash out one MAOI before starting another. I was planning to speak with my doctor about switching to Parnate, but the tapering and washout period seemed like it would be difficult. What did your doc say about being on both at the same time? What dose are you on of Parnate and what dose of Nardil are you starting?
>
> Thanks,
> gg
Posted by Maxime on January 27, 2005, at 20:37:12
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED » Maxime, posted by KaraS on January 27, 2005, at 1:04:54
Hi Kara: It's too late. I have started the Nardil already. I trust my doctor. He has used MAOIs since they came out.
Thanks for the tip on the diet. I will not allow myself to lose control. I won't give in to the cravings. I can't.
Maxime
> Maxime,
> Everything I've read also states the you need to wash out for one week when changing between Parnate and Nardil.
>
> I also wanted to let you know that i've read a couple of posts here on Nardil in the last couple of weeks where people have said that they managed to avoid the Nardil carb craving by keeping their blood sugar constant. One poster described being on an Atkins type diet that worked for him or her. You might want to look over all of the Nardil posts if you haven't already.
>
> Good luck.
> Kara
>
>
Posted by Maxime on January 27, 2005, at 20:40:19
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED, posted by sfy on January 27, 2005, at 12:01:00
Ah! Eldepryl I recognize. I should see if we can get in Canada. DLPA we cannot get.
I am going to investigate Eldepryl and see what the response is like to it.
Thanks!
Maxime
> >
>
> Selegiline is the generic name for Eldepryl, an MAOI that is usually given in low doses to treat Parkinson's Disease. Some people have found it useful at low doses (5-10 mg per day) which do not require a special diet. It is sometimes taken with dl-phenylalanine (DLPA), an amino acid that can improve your response.
Posted by Maxime on January 27, 2005, at 20:45:03
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED » Maxime, posted by Ktemene on January 27, 2005, at 20:07:13
Wow, thanks for all the information. I am going to check out those links. Yes, I rememeber the "patch". It seems like we have been waiting so long for it.
Thanks again. :)
Maxime
> Hi Maxime,
>
> Selegiline is an unusual MAOI, also called Deprenyl or l-deprenyl, that is mostly prescribed for Parkinson's disease. But it is also useful as an antidepressant. If you search the "Tips" section of Babble, you will find some information about it. At low doses (10mg and under), Selegiline is mostly inhibiting MAO-B, so it is increasing the amount of dopamine and PEA (phenylethylamine) that is available in the brain. Some people react very positively to low dose Selegiline (I had a very positive response to 5mg), and these people do not have to worry about the usual MAOI diet restrictions, because MAO-A is not much effected. At higher doses Selegiline does inhibit MAO-A and so the diet restrictions apply. Selegiline is an interesting medicine. It appears to have neuroprotective properties; in fact some researchers think that Selegiline is effective in Parkinson's Disease primarily because of its neuroprotective effect on the dopamine producing neurons and only secondarily on account of it MAO-B inhibition. (This may also be why Selegiline extends the lifespan of rats and dogs in some experiments.)
>
> But most people do not have a robust response to low dose Selegiline. The usual dose required for robust antidepressant effect is 40mg to 60mg. However, Selegiline does have one very important and apparently unique property. It is the only MAOI that lends itself to a transdermal (patch) delivery system. The great advantages of the transdermal patch are that the medication is being delivered in tiny amounts at a constant rate over a number of hours, and that the medication avoids the first pass effect because it does not have to enter the body through the gut and liver.
>
> The reason I thought that the Selegiline patch might be a good option for you is that you have responded well to Parnate in the past. Selegiline is said to resemble Parnate very much. And the patch is a superior delivery system. So there is something out there (or will be very soon- Bristol-Meyers has bought the distribution rights to the patch) that you have not tried that is very promising. The patch is called Emsam.
>
> A lot of people have been waiting for Emsam to get the final FDA approval. (It got the FDA's "approvable" stamp in Feb. 2004.) There has been a lot of discussion of Selegiline on Babble. I have copied links to some of the most useful threads below. I especially recommend Adam's posts about the Selegiline Patch.
>
> DLPA an amino acid: DL-phenylalanine. It is a precursor to PEA (phenylethylamine) which acts like the body's own endogenous amphetamine. Some researchers think that PEA is responsible for the mood lift that people get from vigorous exercise (runner's high). PEA is rapidly degraded by MAO-B. So Selegiline and DLPA make a good combination, and some studies have showed a strong antidepressant effect from the combo. DLPA is also a precursor for dopamine. And the D isomer (but not the L isomer) inhibits the enzyme (enkephalinase) that degrades endorphins. So it is helpful for dealing with pain or potentiating pain medications.
>
> I have copied below some links to threads that have a lot more information.
>
> I hope you are going to be feeling better soon.
> Ktemene
>
> Adam
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20010310/msgs/56603.html
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/19991001/msgs/12397.html
>
> Jemma
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030525/msgs/229420.html
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20030329/msgs/215120.html
>
> Geranium20
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20040418/msgs/350645.html
>
> HappySmurf
> 09http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040412/msgs/336766.html
>
> elleff
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040614/msgs/357744.html
>
> Nemesis
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20040811/msgs/377452.html
>
> Pseudonym
> www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041211/msgs/430276.html
>
Posted by KaraS on January 27, 2005, at 23:01:17
In reply to Re: Nardil - VERY SCARED - Kara, posted by Maxime on January 27, 2005, at 20:37:12
Sounds like your pdoc knows what he's doing. It's good to know that you don't need the wash out period. Good luck to you!
> Hi Kara: It's too late. I have started the Nardil already. I trust my doctor. He has used MAOIs since they came out.
>
> Thanks for the tip on the diet. I will not allow myself to lose control. I won't give in to the cravings. I can't.
>
> Maxime
>
>
> > Maxime,
> > Everything I've read also states the you need to wash out for one week when changing between Parnate and Nardil.
> >
> > I also wanted to let you know that i've read a couple of posts here on Nardil in the last couple of weeks where people have said that they managed to avoid the Nardil carb craving by keeping their blood sugar constant. One poster described being on an Atkins type diet that worked for him or her. You might want to look over all of the Nardil posts if you haven't already.
> >
> > Good luck.
> > Kara
> >
> >
>
>
This is the end of the thread.
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