Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 417092

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Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted.......

Posted by jasmineneroli on November 20, 2004, at 0:11:20

In reply to Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane?, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2004, at 22:12:58

..........Can't a guy get a day off, now & then??

I'm sure he'll be back with his usual interesting and thought provoking posts and try to answer some of our questions when he has time!

Take care, Lar!
Jas

 

Re: Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted.......

Posted by stresser on November 20, 2004, at 14:23:15

In reply to Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted......., posted by jasmineneroli on November 20, 2004, at 0:11:20

This is true....we find a guy that can help us and don't realize that he too, needs some time away. He is truly a "gem" to all of us. -L

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:01:25

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer?, posted by jasmineneroli on November 19, 2004, at 1:55:14

> Lar:
> This is absolutely fascinating! I'm s'posed to be in bed, loaded up with Tryptophan and snoozing straight throught the night!! But it's just got my mind racing. So many questions.
>
> I'm perplexed over apparent contradictions.
> According to the tables, Buspirone uses 3A4 only.
> Buspirone didn't work for me at all and gave me my usual side effects. Clonazepam works like a hot dam, with no side effects -3A4 only, too! Must be other factors at work here?

Indeed there are. Let's not forget that a drug has specific effects. The liver enzyme thing is about how your body disposes of medication, not so much about how the medication works. There is one factor to consider, vis a vis liver transformation of meds. Some drugs have active metabolites. That means that after the liver transorms the drug, it has specific drug activity in that new form. Diazepam (Valium) has four active metabolites (if I recall correctly).

Ordinarily, the liver effects mediate side effects. The things that you don't want the drug to do, but that are a natural response to the drug, nonetheless.

> On the other hand, I believe myself to be unable to tolerate any form of progesterone (2C19 & 3A4)and even low doses of Citalopram give me s/e's (2C19). However, both have a powerful effect on me. (I only need low dose to have a response).So does that mean I'm a good metabolizer of 2C19, or a bad one? (Big effect vs Bad side effects?).

That suggests that you are a poor metabolizer at 2C19. Poor metabolizers maintain high plasma concentration for a longer period. The drug breaks down more slowly than it is expected to (i.e. it has an extended half-life) so that if you take it recurrently as prescribed, the blood concentration can increase to levels far above those anticipated by the doctor who prescribed it. For poor metabolizers, achieving stable therapeutic blood concentrations of a med can take a fraction of the normal dose.

> I've had good (effective) responses to both codeine and DM (both 2D6 and 3A4). However, higher doses of codeine give me stomach side effects. I think 3A4 has something to do with gastric side effects???

Good responses, at normal doses? That suggests that you're in the midground of 2D6 function. If you exceed the capacity of 2D6 (as by overdose) it can't work any faster than its maximum rate. That leaves more of the drug around for all the side-effects to occur. Codeine binds to receptors in the gut that regulate peristalsis, so the rhythmic contractions of the gut that propel food through the intestines are dampened. You get severely constipated. For others, those same receptor effects cause the muscles to spasm, and you get violent nausea.

> Ibuprofen has little analgesic effect for me, so does that indicate poor metabolism of 2C9?

Poor metabolism at an enzyme is normally indicated by an exaggerated drug effect. There is probably something else that makes ibuprofen ineffective in your body.

> Acetaminophen has little effect too, except in high doses(1A2, 2E1 & 3A4 again).

Acetominophen is a strange drug. It works indirectly to cause analgesia. It's a tricky drug to understand.

> Since caffeine does work quickly (1A2 & 3A4) should I assume that the 2E1 in acetaminophen is not being metabolized properly???

Again, let's not confuse liver effects with drug effects. Caffeine drugs your brain effectively. That's what you're noticing.

> The tables weren't detailed enough to show interactions between my particular drugs and I'd like to know which enzymes are inhibited/induced by Tryptophan. Do you know another source of info??

I don't know of any resource that would give you that information. I'll take a look around.

> In fact, I have been recently thinking, that I'm extremely sensitive to MOST drugs EXCEPT analgesics and hypnotics. (I always need loads of novacaine for numbing, higher sleeping pill doses than the norm, lot's of acetaminophen for pain). I was wondering why. Maybe this CP450 puzzle holds the answer!

Maybe. It's a piece of the puzzle, the puzzle of the unique person. Your body is not a statistical entity. Just because the doctor predicts that dose X of drug Y will produce effect of magnitude Z does not have any bearing whatsoever on what will really happen inside you. Doctors seldom think about that, so we have to. When we do the experiment, we have to note what happens. Hopefully, the doctors listen when we report the outcomes of the experiment.

Seriously, the lack of effect of hypnotics or pain meds could be due to effects mediated by magnesium deficiency, or another thing my brain just isn't pulling into consciousness.

> and Larry, I really do think you should write a book. You have an excellent writing style - varied vocab. etc.etc. :)
> Take care
> Jas

I should write a book. I should write a book. I should write a book.

Lar

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? gromit

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:06:57

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli, posted by gromit on November 19, 2004, at 1:59:33

> Maybe this explains why codeine does nothing for me, but vicodin is a stimulant. So much to learn, so little remaining brain cells.
>
> Rick

A critical clue, perhaps. If codeine doesn't work for you, you fall into a group of perhaps even 10% of us, who have trouble with 2D6 drugs. As about one third of all psychotropic meds are at least partially metabolized by 2D6, that's a big problem. If you're innately weak in 2D6, and you take a drug that shuts down (inhibits) 3A4, you can have horrid reactions. Honestly, I think that's why Serzone (nefazodone) can be hepatotoxic.

Knowing I get no pain relief from codeine, I constantly run into problems if I need acute pain treatment and doctors think I'm drug-seeking. But such is life. I calmly explain that codeine does nothing but constipate me, and I need a different opiate. No tylenol 3's for me.

Lar

 

Re: Larry? andromeda

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:11:29

In reply to Larry?, posted by andromeda on November 19, 2004, at 9:25:43

I don't know enough about phenelzine to answer your question. Some people do better with a slower dose titration. What that means is you wait until the side effects subside at a particular dose level before you escalate. Rather than reducing the dose from 15 mg, you just stay at that level until you feel that it is possible to increase the dose.

Lar

 

Re: Back to Paxil? 1st time worked fine, 2nd nada Lar BobS,

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:12:19

In reply to Back to Paxil? 1st time worked fine, 2nd nada Lar, posted by BobS, on November 19, 2004, at 12:37:16

> Lar,
> Do you know what causes this phenomenon, or if it is just not understood?
> Regards,
> BobS.
>

I've never seen a good explanation as to why it is like this, but it surely is a real phenomenon.

Lar

 

Re: Back to Paxil? 1st time worked fine, 2nd nada Lar Phillipa

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:15:35

In reply to Re: Back to Paxil? 1st time worked fine, 2nd nada Lar, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2004, at 15:49:06

> Same thing happened to me with Paxil, but I thought it was because I was switched to Luvox for no reason except the pDoc wanted to experiment he told me. He also put me on chloral hydrate at the same time for sleep. I was drinking beer for sleep prior to switch and had to stop drinking. Heard that chloral hydrate breaks down to acetyl alcohol in the liver so figured it acted like alcohol in my body. Any truth to this? Phillipa

The principle metabolite is trichloroethanol. It probably puts the same liver enzymes under stress as does ethanol itself. Definitely not a good combination, in any case, because of the depressant effects of both drugs. You might stop breathing on the combination, if the doses were high enough.

Lar

 

Re: Back to Paxil? 1st time worked fine, 2nd nada Lar Phillipa

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:17:11

In reply to Re: Back to Paxil? 1st time worked fine, 2nd nada Lar, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2004, at 19:28:31

> Lar, A lot of messages out there that need your expertice.

Sorry for my untimely absence, but I was doing a workshop on advocacy for homeless and poor people. I'm the legal geek for that.

Lar

 

Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane? stresser

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:25:43

In reply to Larry: What is your opinion on accutane?, posted by stresser on November 19, 2004, at 20:14:53

> Larry,
> I really only meant that intimidating comment as a compliment,I'm sorry if I offended you, I didn't want that to happen. I value having you on the board and consider it a privilage.

Thank you for your kind words, and apology. I wasn't offended. I know I intimidate without ever meaning to. Trust me to work through things with you, okay? Just keep asking questions, and I'll try and answer them to your satisfaction.

> I don't seem to have much of a reaction to any anti-depressants, or at least the different medications I have tried.

If you also mean no side-effects, too, you may be a rapid metabolizer. That's quite the opposite effect to most of the people who entered into this thread. You might deactivate and excrete the drug so fast that is has no chance of accumulating in your blood to effective levels. If you can get a doctor to consider helping you (it would take some direct supervision and probably some fairly expensive bloodwork), you might find that purposely using a liver enzyme inhibitor would enhance the drug effect. For example, ketoconazole, the antifungal drug, near totally inhibits 3A4. Maybe that's the kind of thing you need, along with an antidepressant, to get some effect.

Also, you might consider St. John's wort. It works by many different and unique mechanisms that may not be affected by your liver function.

> I do have a question concerning accutane, because I and my daughter have taken it in the past. Let me tell you exactly what has happened. My daughter took Accutane three years ago, and it worked very well....until she stopped taking it. Her face broke out about three months after she she took her last pill, so the doc. put her on another round. I have ALWAYS had trouble with acne, and at 41, (at that time) was tired of the oily face and teenage break-outs. I decided to take it also, and he put us both on the generic form of accutane. Seven months on the generic form went very well, and we both went off with great results and very little side-effects. Some depression, but that was there anyway, so who knows about that one. It was probably six months after we both went off the generic, that she started to break-out horribly AGAIN, and after anti-biotics and Retin A once agian, she is back on the real Accutan, and taking one pill twice per week. That is keeping her acne under some control, but if she lets off, it returns like chicken pox! She did take many anti-biotics and nothing worked for her. Myself, the oily skin is back, and I am having those nasty break-outs and wonder if the generic was worth my trip to the pharmacy. Honestly, I don't think my body responds to medication very well, and I think I have passed it on to my daughter. Is that possible? Have we just always taken the wrong medications for our bodies? What is your opinion? -L

Accutane is due for some serious attention. It can be very toxic in some people. That aside, the fact that it works so well for you suggests that you might consider just using it until after menopause. That should end the problem for you. I'd have to look more closely at how it works. I'm not really sure.

Lar

 

Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane? Phillipa

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:26:12

In reply to Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane?, posted by Phillipa on November 19, 2004, at 22:12:58

> Larry, I hope we haven't scared you off with our questions. If nothing else, this should help your depression that so many people have so much respect for your vast knowledge! Don't leave us please! Phillipa

Just busy. Not gone.

Lar

 

Re: Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted....... jasmineneroli

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:27:07

In reply to Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted......., posted by jasmineneroli on November 20, 2004, at 0:11:20

> ..........Can't a guy get a day off, now & then??

Thanks. Ummm, wanna help me write a book? <teasing>

Lar

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover

Posted by gromit on November 21, 2004, at 9:29:12

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? gromit, posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:06:57

Thanks Larry, when you post you don't mess around do you?

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? gromit

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 11:55:50

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover, posted by gromit on November 21, 2004, at 9:29:12

> Thanks Larry, when you post you don't mess around do you?

I should mess around? <Spock eyebrow>

Just think of me as a capacitor, and this as my discharge.

Lar

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover

Posted by jasmineneroli on November 22, 2004, at 0:30:19

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli, posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:01:25

Thanks V. much for the info, Lar.
Ha! it must've been a shock to come back to Babble and find all this waiting for you???
Anyway, in regard to myself, I've had another
a-ha moment. I discovered that the drug I had the stongest s/e reaction to (Moclobemide) is also a 2C19. That is the common denominator in my 3 worst drug reactions (all with the same symptoms). Now I know I can never take any drug that uses that enzyme in hepatic metabolism.
That is hugely helpful! I don't really care if I'm just a slow metabolizer or I simply don't have the enzyme present. I will avoid all 2C19 drugs!
I'm trying to search for info on tryptophan, but only find the hepatic enzyme named tryptophan pyrrolase, which is an enzyme specific to tryptophan and not part of the P450 clan! I will keep looking. I suspect P450 is not involved at all. The reason why I'm wondering about tryptophan is I've been feeling "unwell" lately and wonder, if this is culprit. Sleep and mood have improved, so I hope it's something else!
Thanks for being you!!!!
Jas


 

Re: Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted....... Larry Hoover

Posted by jasmineneroli on November 22, 2004, at 0:32:47

In reply to Re: Hey PPL- it's only 1 day since Larry posted....... jasmineneroli, posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:27:07

> > ..........Can't a guy get a day off, now & then??
>
> Thanks. Ummm, wanna help me write a book? <teasing>
>
> Lar

Ha! Well, maybe I could design the cover or something..............or go get coffee/donuts?
Jas

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 22, 2004, at 7:36:30

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover, posted by jasmineneroli on November 22, 2004, at 0:30:19

> Thanks V. much for the info, Lar.
> Ha! it must've been a shock to come back to Babble and find all this waiting for you???
> Anyway, in regard to myself, I've had another
> a-ha moment. I discovered that the drug I had the stongest s/e reaction to (Moclobemide) is also a 2C19. That is the common denominator in my 3 worst drug reactions (all with the same symptoms). Now I know I can never take any drug that uses that enzyme in hepatic metabolism.

Here's the nitty-gritty on 2C19... The gene variants are designated as *X in the following quote: "*2 .. *8 : inactive (in up to 20% of Asians {*2 and *3}, 3% of Caucasians, 19% of African Americans, 8% of Africans, up to 71% of Pacific islanders )."

What that means is that there are a number of null genes for 2C19, ones that don't work at all, and they're quite common in certain populations.

> That is hugely helpful! I don't really care if I'm just a slow metabolizer or I simply don't have the enzyme present. I will avoid all 2C19 drugs!

If you want to take a look at a somewhat quirky but information-packed site, take a look at:
http://www.anaesthetist.com/physiol/basics/metabol/cyp/cyp.htm#alpha

If you click on a drug name, it summarizes everything in one place. If you click on an enzyme, though, it gives you an amazingly detailed analysis of what is known about that enzyme. Just looking at 2D6 for example, it lists a couple of dozen different allelic variants (the different gene types for this enzyme), and their different activity levels. Pretty cool.

> I'm trying to search for info on tryptophan, but only find the hepatic enzyme named tryptophan pyrrolase, which is an enzyme specific to tryptophan and not part of the P450 clan! I will keep looking. I suspect P450 is not involved at all. The reason why I'm wondering about tryptophan is I've been feeling "unwell" lately and wonder, if this is culprit. Sleep and mood have improved, so I hope it's something else!

Something else, would be my guess. One way to look at tweaking a nutrient intake is to think of the body as something like a baby's mobile. You know those things with different objects hanging down on strings?.....you move one piece, and they all move? I think we're a bit like that.

> Thanks for being you!!!!
> Jas

Awww, shucks. <grin>

Lar

 

Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane?

Posted by stresser on November 22, 2004, at 15:51:44

In reply to Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane? stresser, posted by Larry Hoover on November 21, 2004, at 9:25:43

Larry,

The Accutane only works when I am on it. -L

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover

Posted by jasmineneroli on November 23, 2004, at 0:49:24

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli, posted by Larry Hoover on November 22, 2004, at 7:36:30

Hey Lar!
EXTREMELY cool link! I think I've found a new obsession! (J/K)
Well, I think I've discovered the reason why I'm a slow metabolizer of 2C19........oral contraceptive pill use for 5 years in the mid 1970's! (And subsequent contraceptive use in an attempt to mitigate peri-menopause symptoms).

Since they inhibit 2C19, do you think it's possible that inhibition of an enzyme for a long period of time by a certain drug or group of drugs (particularly the "old" high dose Oral Contraceptives) permanently effects the enzymes' abiilty to metabolize efficiently, or at all? I did notice that a couple of notes on other isoenzymes on the table, stating "irreverseable effect".

I think this theory may well apply to me. It's also interesting to note that I didn't develop any irritable depression until I took O.C.'s ( always had anxiety, tho'). So much so, that I was really hesitant to take them again to help perimenopause. After that experiment with them, and horrible suicidal depression/anxiety, even my GP of the time said " I think I've made you sick, by putting you back on the pill"!

There has to be a connection between it all.

For some reason, I'm finding this unravelling process, very therapeutic. I feel like I'm finding answers to "why am I like this?" and "why do I keep responding so badly with the same S/E's?". It's kinda empowering. I just don't want to keep on trying drug after drug and having the same ill-effects. At least I will know which ones I definitely shouldn't try.
Thanks so very much Larry :).
Warm wishes, Jas
PS
Still working on the tryptophan plan.

 

Thanks 4 starting this thread, ZenTen!!! (nm) ZenTen

Posted by jasmineneroli on November 23, 2004, at 0:51:07

In reply to How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer?, posted by ZenTen on November 17, 2004, at 12:17:12

 

Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane? stresser

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 23, 2004, at 8:23:17

In reply to Re: Larry: What is your opinion on accutane?, posted by stresser on November 22, 2004, at 15:51:44

> Larry,
>
> The Accutane only works when I am on it. -L

I took a closer look at Accutane (isotretinoin, or 13-cis-retinoic acid). Hmmm.

For the majority of people taking it, long-term suppression of acne occurs when the cumulative dose meets the the threshold of 120 mg/kg. Daily doses should come close to 1 mg/kg.

So, if you're 120 lbs., as an example, you're 55 kg (divide by 2.2). That means your daily dose should be about 50 mg, and you need to stay at that dose for a little over four months (at 1 mg/kg/day, you need 120 days to get to the cumulative threshold). That seems to be the "best practice" recommendation. As isotretinoin interferes with vitamin A metabolism, it is not recommended that anyone use the drug long-term.

A couple of years ago, somebody came up with a potential mechanism for how it works. It inhibits one of the steroid conversions that takes place in the skin itself. The problem is, it inhibits other steroid reactions occurring elsewhere in the body. Messing with hormones can have nasty consequences. I think that's why they make the recommendations the way they do.

Lar

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 23, 2004, at 8:56:11

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover, posted by jasmineneroli on November 23, 2004, at 0:49:24

> Hey Lar!
> EXTREMELY cool link! I think I've found a new obsession! (J/K)

Passion is a lovely thing.

> Well, I think I've discovered the reason why I'm a slow metabolizer of 2C19........oral contraceptive pill use for 5 years in the mid 1970's! (And subsequent contraceptive use in an attempt to mitigate peri-menopause symptoms).

Okay, here's my last 2C19 link:
http://www.imm.ki.se/CYPalleles/cyp2c19.htm

> Since they inhibit 2C19, do you think it's possible that inhibition of an enzyme for a long period of time by a certain drug or group of drugs (particularly the "old" high dose Oral Contraceptives) permanently effects the enzymes' abiilty to metabolize efficiently, or at all?

No, that's not how it works at all. Your body makes these enzymes anew every day. Think about the cars you see on the highway. Many are new, most are fairly new, some are old, and a few are really old. That's the same sort of population distribution for the enzymes in your body. They "turn over" on a roughly two week cycle (gross generalization), rather than the twenty years for cars, but you get a similar age mix. Inhibition that happened years ago has long since gone away.

> I did notice that a couple of notes on other isoenzymes on the table, stating "irreverseable effect".

Inhibition effects are best explained if I start with how an enzyme is supposed to work. An enzyme binds to a substrate, and sort of stretches the substrate into a new shape by partially reacting with its chemical bonds, or its bonding potential. That allows another molecule or fragment of a molecule to react more readily with the substrate, or for a piece to come off the substrate, or whatever it is that the enzyme promotes. The enzyme reduces the energy required for a chemical reaction to occur. It facilitates a reaction.

An enzyme is specific. Only molecules with the right shape can get into the active site, and get "involved" with the bond stretching that the enzyme specializes in.

Now, to inhibition. Just as a lock on a door, some keys won't go in at all (if you pick randomly off your key ring), but others go in and don't turn the cylinder. It's those molecules that go into the enzyme but don't do anything that inhibit it. While it's occupied like that, a real substrate can't get in. That's called competitive inhibition, and it's the most common kind. It's also possible that inhibition occurs between two competing substrates for the same enzyme. One might take a lot longer time in the enzyme than the other, and that just bogs things down. That's another kind of competitive inhibition, when you take two drugs that have to use the same enzyme.

Irreversible inhibition is a permanent chemical change in the enzyme structure. It can be that a potential substrate for the enzyme is just too reactive with the enzyme's active site, and a true bond forms with the substrate, locking it in place. Or, the chemical change can involve an internal rearrangement of the enzyme itself, changing its shape and thus its activity. An example of an irreversible change in a protein is cooking an egg. You can't uncook it. Back to the lock analogy. The first sort I described in this paragraph would be like breaking a key off in the lock. The second sort would be like putting crazy glue in the lock. The lock's toast.

Your body is constantly producing replacement enzymes, so irreversible inhibition only affects the individual enzyme molecules that got hit by the irreversible inhibitor. Parnate and Nardil are irreversible inhibitors of the enzyme monoamine oxidase, but you have to take them every day because: a) your body is constantly destroying and excreting the inhibiting drug; and b) your body is constantly churning out new molecules of monoamine oxidase.

> I think this theory may well apply to me. It's also interesting to note that I didn't develop any irritable depression until I took O.C.'s ( always had anxiety, tho'). So much so, that I was really hesitant to take them again to help perimenopause. After that experiment with them, and horrible suicidal depression/anxiety, even my GP of the time said " I think I've made you sick, by putting you back on the pill"!
>
> There has to be a connection between it all.

Your liver function, interacting with the drug effects of the hormones, has got to be at the root of your response.

> For some reason, I'm finding this unravelling process, very therapeutic. I feel like I'm finding answers to "why am I like this?"

...or, perhaps, "what am I like?" It is indeed about your uniqueness. The special way you are.

> and "why do I keep responding so badly with the same S/E's?". It's kinda empowering.

It is, isn't it?

> I just don't want to keep on trying drug after drug and having the same ill-effects. At least I will know which ones I definitely shouldn't try.
> Thanks so very much Larry :).
> Warm wishes, Jas
> PS
> Still working on the tryptophan plan.
>

You're very welcome, Jas.

Lar

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover

Posted by jasmineneroli on November 24, 2004, at 0:27:24

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? jasmineneroli, posted by Larry Hoover on November 23, 2004, at 8:56:11

OK.......so I think I understand it all now.
I'm not sure why I was looking at liver enzymes as static, unchanging. When I know full well that brain enzymes & neurotransmitters are not. I think I just wanted to blame O.C.'s and sew it all up nice and tidy!!!
Thanks for the careful explanation.
I really wish I had the intellectual capacity I had a few years ago. My spelling has deteriorated, and logical, sequential thinking seems to get "stuck".
* Don't tell me it's AGE again * <pokes out tongue>!!!
I'm going over to the Alternative Board to ask more questions ...what a pest!!
Take care
Jas

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer?

Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2004, at 14:41:20

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Larry Hoover, posted by jasmineneroli on November 24, 2004, at 0:27:24

Okey, Here's one for you. Has anyone ever lost their taste for months? Well I have, and I was sent to The Taste And Smell Center in Wake Forrest, NC. I was told that the neurons in my nose were destroyed maybe from a virus and to first take predisone for 2 weeks and if that didn't work theophyline for 4-6months, and if that didn't work nothing would. Well, I don't believe it and think it may be related to the anxiety, depression or meds. I am numb from them and walk around like a robot, and just came back from the store where I found it difficult to function. I have get what I came for and concentrate on that and leave. Makes me think my brain is dying. I cut back on Cymbalta to 30mgs after reading threads, still l.75mgs of Klonopin, and total of l0cc chloral hydrate at night. I also have hypothroidism, the autoimmune kind called hashimotos. Wonder if this makes me a slow metabilizer even if it is controlled. Any feedback, sorry it's long.Phillipa

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Phillipa

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 24, 2004, at 14:56:01

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer?, posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2004, at 14:41:20

> Okey, Here's one for you. Has anyone ever lost their taste for months? Well I have, and I was sent to The Taste And Smell Center in Wake Forrest, NC. I was told that the neurons in my nose were destroyed maybe from a virus and to first take predisone for 2 weeks and if that didn't work theophyline for 4-6months, and if that didn't work nothing would.

Did they mention zinc? Do you, by any chance, have white marks on your finger nails, sort of random?

The receptors for taste and smell require zinc as part of their structure, and it's possible that more than a virus is at play, here. It couldn't hurt for you to supplement zinc at 50 mg/day for four weeks, and see if that doesn't help turn things around.

Lar

 

Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer?

Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2004, at 16:12:47

In reply to Re: How do I know IF I am a slow metabolizer? Phillipa, posted by Larry Hoover on November 24, 2004, at 14:56:01

No, but a GP actually thought that the zinc lonzeges you take for a cold could cause loss of taste. I hadn't taken any ,but do take an MVI with l0mg. Not enough? Thanks Lar, I'll get some. Phillipa


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