Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 415814

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Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by lostforwards on November 14, 2004, at 12:30:54

In reply to how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 12:25:12

I think lithium does.

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 14, 2004, at 20:14:00

In reply to how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 12:25:12

> Supposedly, reductions in glial volume are present in the prefrontal cortex of brains of MDD and BP patients.
>
> What meds/nutrients might fatten up my glia, IE enhace GDNF etc ?
>
> Linkadge


The only treatment which will be effective for you is ECT. You are too obsessed with yourself and need to have your personality erased. Bilateral ECT will do this for you. Plus it will get rid of your depression and bipolar issue.

alt-control-delete for you, my friend!

Shalom

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by sabre on November 15, 2004, at 4:01:36

In reply to how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 12:25:12

Hi Linkadge
Where does this information come from?

When you talk about the glial volume, do you mean the actual number of cells or the size of each cell?
Does it only happen in the prefrontal cortex?

sabre

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 10:42:05

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by sabre on November 15, 2004, at 4:01:36

http://biopsychiatry.com/subgenual.html


I'd go for ECT, but the doctors have a hard time administering it to a 21 year old. Even though I've been on the following medications.

celexa,paxil,prozac,zoloft,remeron,parnate,
sinequan,effexor,SAMe,risperdal,trazedone,
seroquel,zyprexa,ritalin,dexedrine,thioridazine,
divalprox,tegretol,trileptal,lithium,lorazepam,
bromazepam,clonazepam,temazepam,oxepam.

And a bunch other I can't think about now.

Linkadge

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2004, at 10:52:01

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 10:42:05

Hello Linkadge, how are you feeling at the moment?

Regards,
Ed

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 11:21:02

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2004, at 10:52:01

Right now, just extremely anxious, phyiscal anxiety. The slightest things, words etc, cause intense pysical anxiety.

Linkadge

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2004, at 11:32:21

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 11:21:02

I'm sorry to hear it. Do you benefit from benzos for anxiety?
Ed

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 12:19:06

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by ed_uk on November 15, 2004, at 11:32:21

I do but I build a tollerance so quickly.

I was on 3mg of clonazepam, and it helped my anxiety for about 2,1/2 weeks, then I was right back to where I began.

I discontinued it, and had severe rebound anxiety for 2,1/2 weeks then I was again back to where I started.


Linkadge

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ???? » linkadge

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 15, 2004, at 22:26:36

In reply to how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 12:25:12

> Supposedly, reductions in glial volume are present in the prefrontal cortex of brains of MDD and BP patients.
>
> What meds/nutrients might fatten up my glia, IE enhace GDNF etc ?
>
> Linkadge

I posted a fairly lengthy post to this thread last night, but I don't see it anywhere. :-/

Two angles for metabolic support. One is ketosis/dietary restriction as by fasting. The former is what happens in the Zone diet. Apparently that kickstarts glia into vigorous activity.

To support them they need adequate omega-3 fats, and high levels of antioxidants. That's your alphalipoic, selenium, vitamin E, C, and polyphenols and all that.

The other angle is low-dose selegiline. It appears to stabilize mitochondrial membranes, restoring charge gradients. It also upregulates certain antioxidant enzymes, while down-regulating inflammatory cytokines.

Abstracts on selegiline below.

Lar


J Neurocytol. 2003 May;32(4):329-43.

Neuroprotective actions of Selegiline in inhibiting 1-methyl, 4-phenyl, pyridinium ion (MPP+)-induced apoptosis in SK-N-SH neurons.

Sharma SK, Carlson EC, Ebadi M.

Department of Pharmacology, Physiology, and Therapeutics, University of North Dakota, School of Medicine and Health Sciences, Grand Forks, North Dakota, USA. skumar@medicine.nodak.edu

We have examined mitochondrial membranes and molecular hallmarks of apoptosis in response to increasing concentrations of 1-Methyl, 4-phenyl, Pyridinium ion (MPP(+)) in SK-N-SH neurons and have evaluated the neuroprotective potential of Selegiline with a primary objective to explore its mechanism(s) of neuroprotection. MPP(+)-induced apoptosis was characterized by spherical appearance, suppressed neuritogenesis, phosphatidyl serine externalization, plasma membrane perforations, mitochondrial membrane potential (Delta Psi) collapse, mitochondrial aggregation, and nuclear DNA fragmentation and condensation. At lower concentrations, MPP(+) (10-100 microM) produced mitochondrial swelling and loss of cristae, and at higher concentrations (300-500 microM), degeneration and aggregation of mitochondrial membranes in the peri-nuclear region, which were attenuated by Selegiline (10-50 microM) pre-treatment. At still higher concentrations, MPP(+) (>500 microM) produced necrotic changes represented by mitochondrial and plasma membrane ballooning and perforations. Selegiline provided partial neuroprotection at higher concentrations of MPP(+). MPP(+)-induced increases in reactive oxygen species, lipid peroxidation, cytochrome-C release, necrosis factor kappa-B (NF-kappa-B) activation, 8-hydroxy, 2 deoxy guanosine synthesis, alpha-synuclein indices, and reductions in glutathione, ATP, and superoxide dismutase were attenuated by Selegiline. Selegiline also attenuated MPP(+)-induced transcriptional activation of c-fos, c-jun, GAPDH, and caspase-3, suggesting that it may provide neuroprotection by preserving mitochondrial membranes, by attenuating molecular markers of apoptosis, by scavenging free radicals, and by regulating immediate early genes involved in neurodegeneration.

Antioxid Redox Signal. 2003 Jun;5(3):319-35.

Peroxynitrite and mitochondrial dysfunction in the pathogenesis of Parkinson's disease.

Ebadi M, Sharma SK.

Department of Pharmacology, Physiology and Therapeutics, University of North Dakota, School of Medicine and Health Sciences, Grand Forks, ND 58203, USA. mebadi@medicine.nodak.edu

Nitric oxide (NO), in excess, behaves as a cytotoxic substance mediating the pathological processes that cause neurodegeneration. The NO-induced dopaminergic cell loss causing Parkinson's disease (PD) has been postulated to include the following: an inhibition of cytochrome oxidase, ribonucleotide reductase, mitochondrial complexes I, II, and IV in the respiratory chain, superoxide dismutase, glyceraldehyde-3-phosphate dehydrogenase; activation or initiation of DNA strand breakage, poly(ADP-ribose) synthase, lipid peroxidation, and protein oxidation; release of iron; and increased generation of toxic radicals such as hydroxyl radicals and peroxynitrite. NO is formed by the conversion of L-arginine to L-citrulline by NO synthase (NOS). At least three NOS isoforms have been identified by molecular cloning and biochemical studies: a neuronal NOS or type 1 NOS (nNOS), an immunologic NOS or type 2 NOS (iNOS), and an endothelial NOS or type 3 NOS (eNOS). The enzymatic activities of eNOS or nNOS are induced by phosphorylation triggered by Ca(2+) entering cells and binding to calmodulin. In contrast, the regulation of iNOS seems to depend on de novo synthesis of the enzyme in response to a variety of cytokines, such as interferon-gamma and lipopolysaccharide. The evidence that NO is associated with neurotoxic processes underlying PD comes from studies using experimental models of this disease NOS inhibitors can prevent 1-methyl-4-phenyl-1,2,3,6-tetrahydropyridine (MPTP)-induced dopaminergic neurotoxicity. Furthermore, NO fosters dopamine depletion, and the said neurotoxicity is averted by nNOS inhibitors such as 7-nitroindazole working on tyrosine hydroxylase-immunoreactive neurons in substantia nigra pars compacta. Moreover, mutant mice lacking the nNOS gene are more resistant to MPTP neurotoxicity when compared with wild-type littermates. Selegiline, an irreversible inhibitor of monoamine oxidase B, is used in PD as a dopaminergic function-enhancing substance. Selegiline and its metabolite, desmethylselegiline, reduce apoptosis by altering the expression of a number of genes, for instance, superoxide dismutase, Bcl-2, Bcl-xl, NOS, c-Jun, and nicotinamide adenine nucleotide dehydrogenase. The selegiline-induced antiapoptotic activity is associated with prevention of a progressive reduction of mitochondrial membrane potential in preapoptotic neurons. As apoptosis is critical to the progression of neurodegenerative disease, including PD, selegiline or selegiline-like compounds to be discovered in the future may be efficacious in treating PD.

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ???? » linkadge

Posted by Barbaracat on November 16, 2004, at 2:26:53

In reply to how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 12:25:12

Lithium actually has been shown to increase glia, BDNF and assist in neurogenesis and overall plasticity. Just can't take too much or you get the stoopids instead. - BarbaraCat

> Supposedly, reductions in glial volume are present in the prefrontal cortex of brains of MDD and BP patients.
>
> What meds/nutrients might fatten up my glia, IE enhace GDNF etc ?
>
> Linkadge

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 16, 2004, at 18:36:05

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by linkadge on November 15, 2004, at 10:42:05

> http://biopsychiatry.com/subgenual.html
>
>
> I'd go for ECT, but the doctors have a hard time administering it to a 21 year old.


Thats a bunch of bull. Youre just making up excuses to avoid ECT. Edocs will give ECT to a 21 year old just as they will to a 70 year old. Youre just plain scared of getting better.

Shalom

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 16, 2004, at 22:56:09

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 16, 2004, at 18:36:05

> > http://biopsychiatry.com/subgenual.html
> >
> >
> > I'd go for ECT, but the doctors have a hard time administering it to a 21 year old.
>
>
> Thats a bunch of bull. Youre just making up excuses to avoid ECT. Edocs will give ECT to a 21 year old just as they will to a 70 year old. Youre just plain scared of getting better.
>
> Shalom

Please be civil in your posts to others. I wish I'd have mentioned it in regard to your last post, too. Please read the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil

 

Re: thanks (nm) » Larry Hoover

Posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:41:25

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by Larry Hoover on November 16, 2004, at 22:56:09

 

Re: thanks

Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2004, at 15:36:51

In reply to Re: thanks (nm) » Larry Hoover, posted by Dr. Bob on November 17, 2004, at 5:41:25

No they won't just give it to anybody around here. When mentioning it to my psychiatrist, he said the following. "You're too young. I want to try other drugs before I am responsible for some of the side effects that might follow"

It's not that they *won't*, they don't want to. It's not my decision, just like I can't walk into a dr.'s office and demand prozac.

By the way, do you know the poster named
"Psychquackery" ???

Linkadge

 

Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 17, 2004, at 16:44:16

In reply to Re: how do I support the brain's glia ????, posted by Larry Hoover on November 16, 2004, at 22:56:09

> > > http://biopsychiatry.com/subgenual.html
> > >
> > >
> > > I'd go for ECT, but the doctors have a hard time administering it to a 21 year old.
> >
> >
> > Thats a bunch of bull. Youre just making up excuses to avoid ECT. Edocs will give ECT to a 21 year old just as they will to a 70 year old. Youre just plain scared of getting better.
> >
> > Shalom
>
> Please be civil in your posts to others. I wish I'd have mentioned it in regard to your last post, too. Please read the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
>
>


It is just the honest truth that ECT is the best treatment for many of the severe mood disorders posters here have. The longer one puts it off, the more one suffers. There is no need for it.

Shalom

 

Re: thanks

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 17, 2004, at 16:46:17

In reply to Re: thanks, posted by linkadge on November 17, 2004, at 15:36:51

> No they won't just give it to anybody around here. When mentioning it to my psychiatrist, he said the following. "You're too young. I want to try other drugs before I am responsible for some of the side effects that might follow"
>
> It's not that they *won't*, they don't want to. It's not my decision, just like I can't walk into a dr.'s office and demand prozac.
>
> By the way, do you know the poster named
> "Psychquackery" ???
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>

Move out of Canada then. Come to America, get on welfare and medicaid and go to an American Edoc and get ECT.

Shalom

 

Re: thanks

Posted by linkadge on November 17, 2004, at 18:55:39

In reply to Re: thanks, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 17, 2004, at 16:46:17

"Move out of Canada then. Come to America, get on welfare and medicaid and go to an American Edoc and get ECT."

These are some very challenging things to do. To make such drastic sacrifices it puts a lot of pressure and hope into the treatment. This does not help if it does not work.


Linkadge

 

Re: thanks » linkadge

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 17, 2004, at 22:33:03

In reply to Re: thanks, posted by linkadge on November 17, 2004, at 18:55:39

> "Move out of Canada then. Come to America, get on welfare and medicaid and go to an American Edoc and get ECT."
>
> These are some very challenging things to do. To make such drastic sacrifices it puts a lot of pressure and hope into the treatment. This does not help if it does not work.
>
>
> Linkadge

ECT is quite readily available in Canada. It's not to be taken lightly, however. ECT seldom works for very long. The effects wear off in months, if it works at all.

Lar

 

Re: thanks

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 18:09:47

In reply to Re: thanks » linkadge, posted by Larry Hoover on November 17, 2004, at 22:33:03

> > "Move out of Canada then. Come to America, get on welfare and medicaid and go to an American Edoc and get ECT."
> >
> > These are some very challenging things to do. To make such drastic sacrifices it puts a lot of pressure and hope into the treatment. This does not help if it does not work.
> >
> >
> > Linkadge
>
> ECT is quite readily available in Canada. It's not to be taken lightly, however. ECT seldom works for very long. The effects wear off in months, if it works at all.
>
> Lar

See...this guy could get ECT if he wanted, but he's scared like most are. Scared to get better. Stuck in nowheresville. What would you know about ECT, Larry?

Shalom

 

Re: ECT » Shalom34Israel

Posted by Larry Hoover on November 18, 2004, at 18:54:42

In reply to Re: thanks, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 18:09:47

> See...this guy could get ECT if he wanted, but he's scared like most are. Scared to get better. Stuck in nowheresville. What would you know about ECT, Larry?
>
> Shalom

Now that's kind of an open-ended question, isn't it?

I know it has never been approved in the United States. It was grandfathered in, just as was trans-orbital frontal lobotomy. I know that the biggest proponent of ECT in America also sells the machines for giving it. I know that permanent damage to the brain is far from a rare event. And I know enough to have a "do not ECT" contract on file with my doctors. No matter how bad I get, even if I lose the capacity for consent and a substitute decision-maker steps in to consent to treatment, they may not use ECT. It is a document similar to a DNR "do not resuscitate" document. I have weighed the benefits and the risks, and for me, no ECT will be considered, under any circumstances.

Lar

 

Re: ECT

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 18:58:12

In reply to Re: ECT » Shalom34Israel, posted by Larry Hoover on November 18, 2004, at 18:54:42

> > See...this guy could get ECT if he wanted, but he's scared like most are. Scared to get better. Stuck in nowheresville. What would you know about ECT, Larry?
> >
> > Shalom
>
> Now that's kind of an open-ended question, isn't it?
>
> I know it has never been approved in the United States. It was grandfathered in, just as was trans-orbital frontal lobotomy. I know that the biggest proponent of ECT in America also sells the machines for giving it. I know that permanent damage to the brain is far from a rare event. And I know enough to have a "do not ECT" contract on file with my doctors. No matter how bad I get, even if I lose the capacity for consent and a substitute decision-maker steps in to consent to treatment, they may not use ECT. It is a document similar to a DNR "do not resuscitate" document. I have weighed the benefits and the risks, and for me, no ECT will be considered, under any circumstances.
>
> Lar
>

so in other words youre a chicken shit wussy who would rather starve to death from catatonic depression than have ECT, right? It is used all the time in the USA, I have relatives there and I know for fact it is used a lot in USA.

Shalom

 

Re: ECT

Posted by gromit on November 18, 2004, at 19:19:01

In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 18:58:12

> so in other words youre a chicken shit wussy who would rather starve to death from catatonic depression than have ECT, right? It is used all the time in the USA, I have relatives there and I know for fact it is used a lot in USA.

Wow your posts range from abrasive to downright offensive. Why are you flaming people who are just seeking some relief?


Rick

 

Re: ECT » Shalom34Israel

Posted by jujube on November 18, 2004, at 19:30:37

In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 18:58:12

You need to learn to respect people's opinions and their views on the best course of treatment for them as an individual, and stop being so antagonistic, judgemental and demeaning. That type of behaviour defeats the purpose of this board, which is to support and educate.

 

Re: ECT

Posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 20:27:32

In reply to Re: ECT » Shalom34Israel, posted by jujube on November 18, 2004, at 19:30:37

> You need to learn to respect people's opinions and their views on the best course of treatment for them as an individual, and stop being so antagonistic, judgemental and demeaning. That type of behaviour defeats the purpose of this board, which is to support and educate.


blah blah blah. Some of these people hang out on these boards for years. Most of them just need a lot of ECT, plain and simple. Cut thru the crap for a change, sometimes being supportive means being honest and telling people things they dont want to hear.

Shalom

 

he he this is making me giddy !!

Posted by linkadge on November 18, 2004, at 20:46:51

In reply to Re: ECT, posted by Shalom34Israel on November 18, 2004, at 20:27:32

For starters. Having ECT or not having ECT does not determine the degree of courage that a patient has.

We all know that the greatest suffering in depression is not the side effects of ECT, but rather the suffering of depression itself.

So if you want to be completely logical, you are being more cowardly than me by having ECT done and eliminating your depression symptoms.

Secondly, calling people names such as wimpy or
cowardly says more about your own mental state than it does about anybody else's.

This is not a contest, it is about weighing the risks and benefits of any treatment with your own specific symptoms.

There are medication combination that I want to still try before resorting to ECT.

As Larry informatively stated, ECT is certainly not the cure for depression.

In fact, I'd rather have a Steriotactic Subcaudate Tractonomy before I'd have ECT.


Linkadge


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