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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
bob@dr-bob.orgShown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
Hi all,
Why is it that France invents some of the world's best yet most unknown medications? I don't know what's in French drinking water, but whatever it is it sure seems to give them an edge when it comes to inventing fantastic medications.
Adrafinil and Amisulpride have nearly completely conquered my longstanding resistant depression. I've been amazed, yet have been reluctant to share the good news because I wanted to be sure it wasn't another short-lived tease. I think this time it's for real. Adrafinil and Amisulpride are wonderful medications.
I've taken Amisulpride before with Prozac, and it was helpful in social situations, but didn't address my anhedonia. So I'm pretty sure it's the Adrafinil that is doing the work. I could probably drop the Amisulpride to see, but my hunch is the Adrafinil is the wonderdrug in my small cocktail.
I'm actually showing interest in doing things, anticipating the 'fun' of planning different activities. For the last three years I've watched my yard go to weeds. The beach is just a 10 minute walk away, yet I have had no interest to go there--and haven't gone there--in three years. Now I'm eagerly planning on where to put fruit trees, cleaning up the weeds, planning all kinds of flower and vegie gardens. Walking down to the beach and laying in the sun sounds like fun. And I'm even pondering picking up my guitar again and blowing off the dust. Amazing! I think over the years of depression my subdued interests have changed, but it is sssooo good to actually have interest in something again.
Adrafinil comes on slowly, over about two weeks. After some very lousy sleep during the first week I now sleep very good and wake wanting to do things. I have NNOO side effects. Actually, the only side effect is if I stand up too quickly I get dizzy for a second. That's it.
Current cocktail is: Adrafinil 600mg, Amisulpride 100mg, Remeron 7.5mg, St Johnswort 900mg. But I truly think the powerhorse is the Adrafinil. The others provide benefits, but the Adrafinil is the star of the show. I was amazed at how well and how quickly Adrafinil and St Johnswort complimented each other. What a fantastic combination. Unbelievable. With such a simple and highly pleasing combination, I cringe in disgust at all the other drugs I've tried...every SSRI, several TCAs, one MAOI, every augmentation imaginable, mood stabilizers, Naltrexone, on and on.
What a long waste of time, and a long torturous nightmare it has been, to finally get where I am. And to think that of all the drugs our FDA approves, the best ones aren't even on their list. Thank God for French scientists and overseas mailorders. The best drugs the USA has to offer pale in comparison to other drugs around the world.
So I'm here to announce, finally, that Adrafinil is the first and only medication among dozens that has treated my longstanding stubborn anhedonia. I'm not 100%, but closer than I've ever been. And it's still early. So to Adrafinil I say....SALUTE!!! :) JohnL
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 14, 2000, at 10:16:39
In reply to Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
> Adrafinil and Amisulpride have nearly completely conquered my longstanding resistant depression.
This is great news. I hope you enjoy the rest of your life.
> Why is it that France invents some of the world's best yet most unknown medications? I don't know what's in French drinking water, but whatever it is it sure seems to give them an edge when it comes to inventing fantastic medications.
The French have always seemed to be the most progressive in the development and use of psychotropics. This has been true since I first hit the books in 1983.
> So I'm here to announce, finally, that Adrafinil is the first and only medication among dozens that has treated my longstanding stubborn anhedonia. I'm not 100%, but closer than I've ever been. And it's still early. So to Adrafinil I say....SALUTE!!! :) JohnL
Of the stuff you've come across, what has been your impression of the success rate of adrafinil monotherapy?
What other drug combinations have you seen that included adrafinil as a treatment for depression?
How would you describe your response to amisulpride when you first introduced it?
Thanks.
I am going to tell my doctor about your experience with adrafinil. He is already considering amisulpride. If I recall correctly, reboxetine and Wellbutrin worsened your depression. This has also been true for me. It would be nice if this overlap in drug reactions were an indication of an overlap in successful treatments.
Drugs that have worsened my depression:1. Lithium - somewhat worse
2. Wellbutrin - moderately worse
3. Cytomel - much worse
4. Vivactil - much worse
5. Moclobemide - very much worse
6. Reboxetine - much worse
I want to thank you for your vigilance in posting your experiences and your evolving suggestions and recommendations. I feel encouraged to see that you have reached such success after suffering so many years of pain, hardship, and discouragement. I have found your contributions, along with those of AndrewB and others to be extremely pertinant to my case.I am still afraid to hope.
- Scott
Posted by KarenB on April 14, 2000, at 11:20:52
In reply to Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
> Hi all,
>
> Why is it that France invents some of the world's best yet most unknown medications?It must be the food and the wine - also some of the best in the world.
I also found Amineptine and Sulpiride to be the best combo going for my symptoms. Both are French.
This is great news John. So happy for you!
I am on Ritalin alone and it is actually working for me - but to early to make a real judgement on it. I am hopeful.
Keep us posted.
Karen
Posted by AndrewB on April 14, 2000, at 12:40:05
In reply to Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
Viva la France! Viva la John L! I am so happy for you John. You've been such a long suffering soul. I am sure that I am just one of many on this board who has watched your seemingly unending frustrations and hoped that at some time you would get a break. Well, small miracles, it has finally happened and to such a wonderful person.
I could go into a diatribe on the injustices of how some good medicines aren’t available on this side of the Atlantic, but it would serve others better to say that both amisulpride and adrafinil are available with or without a prescription at a reasonable price. Also note that it is perfectly legal to import these drugs for your personal use and it is perfectly legal for your psychiatrist to prescribe these drugs. Is it ethical for a doctor to prescribe a drug for which the FDA has not approved? Ethics are a matter of personal interpretation but isn’t the doctor’s highest ethical priority to provide the best medicines and medical care to his patient. FDA approval means that a drug has passed through rigorous testing but lack of FDA approval doesn’t mean the FDA disapproves of a drug. It does indicate however that the doctor and the patient must be extra vigilant as to the safety and appropriateness of the medicines, whether it is a drug from overseas or one that is being used for a purpose other than what it was approved for. By the way John, I guess you had to go overseas and try the French meds because you used up all of ours!
One message I take from your experience here is something that you have been talking about a lot lately; individual body chemistries differ so don’t try to do too much guessing as to what will work, rather be willing to go through trials with a lot of drugs and do the trials as quickly as is reasonable. Success is often only found after much ‘trial’ and error.
Now I thought that adrafinil and reboxetine were so closely related that a failure with one would necessarily mean failure with the other. But you have shown this not to be true. Bruce, another poster, also confirmed this when after trying adrafinil and finding no mood benefit experienced a wonderful mood enhancement with reboxetine.
The point is, again, people have individual body chemistries, so one just needs to give trials to one med after another. I believe one advantage with adrafinil, being an adrenerigic agonist, is that its onset and washout period are fairly rapid and a trial can be accomplished fairly rapidly. Tell me if I am wrong in this assumption John.John, I do think you should try the adrafinil without the amisulpride for 4 or 5 days to see if the amisulpride is providing anything for you. If for no other reason than to save you money. But don’t be surprised if you find that you need the amisulpride. I have found with the reboxetine and amisulpride that, while the reboxetine is in good part the ‘battery’ that supplies the energy to the mood effect, it is the amisulpride that supplies the wonderful color to the effect.
One final thing, John, please don't leave us now that your all well and better. You are still needed!
Talk with you later,
AndrewB
Posted by saint james on April 14, 2000, at 15:24:27
In reply to Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
> Current cocktail is: Adrafinil 600mg, Amisulpride 100mg, Remeron 7.5mg, St Johnswort 900mg. But I truly think the powerhorse is the Adrafinil.James here...
When did you start this cocktail and when did it first start working ?
james
Posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 16:18:13
In reply to Re: Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 14, 2000, at 10:16:39
>
> Drugs that have worsened my depression:
>
> 1. Lithium - somewhat worse
> 2. Wellbutrin - moderately worse
> 3. Cytomel - much worse
> 4. Vivactil - much worse
> 5. Moclobemide - very much worse
> 6. Reboxetine - much worse
>
>
> I want to thank you for your vigilance in posting your experiences and your evolving suggestions and recommendations. I feel encouraged to see that you have reached such success after suffering so many years of pain, hardship, and discouragement. I have found your contributions, along with those of AndrewB and others to be extremely pertinant to my case.
>
> I am still afraid to hope.
>
>
> - ScottScott, your track record looks EXACTLY like mine. Same drugs, same reactions. I think with some of us, the problem isn't that we have low norepinephrine, but rather we have adequate norepinephrine that just isn't working properly. It needs a kick in the butt, some stimulation, some help. Increasing an already adequate level will only cause worsening. But stimulating or enhancing the function of existing norepinephrine is a whole different ballgame. That's what Adrafinil does.
I kind of think of it in this symbolic example. Say for example we want a copper wire to transmit electricity better. What if we could make the density of that wire thicker? That would probably work. But with you and me it actually caused us to get much worse. But what if there was some molecule we could attach to the copper molecules that would make the electricity flow better than with pure copper? That's what Adrafinil does in our brain. It just makes the norepinephrine system work better than it does on its own. The Adrafinil molecules attach to certain brain molecules and then everything works better, especially if those certain brain molecules are somehow subactive to begin with.
That's just my layman interpretation. If you decide to try it, I'm cheering for you! JohnL
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 14, 2000, at 17:02:14
In reply to Re: Wonderful French meds...Scott, posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 16:18:13
THANKS !!!
> > Drugs that have worsened my depression:
> >
> > 1. Lithium - somewhat worse
> > 2. Wellbutrin - moderately worse
> > 3. Cytomel - much worse
> > 4. Vivactil - much worse
> > 5. Moclobemide - very much worse
> > 6. Reboxetine - much worse
> >
> >
> > I want to thank you for your vigilance in posting your experiences and your evolving suggestions and recommendations. I feel encouraged to see that you have reached such success after suffering so many years of pain, hardship, and discouragement. I have found your contributions, along with those of AndrewB and others to be extremely pertinant to my case.
> >
> > I am still afraid to hope.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott, your track record looks EXACTLY like mine. Same drugs, same reactions. I think with some of us, the problem isn't that we have low norepinephrine, but rather we have adequate norepinephrine that just isn't working properly. It needs a kick in the butt, some stimulation, some help. Increasing an already adequate level will only cause worsening. But stimulating or enhancing the function of existing norepinephrine is a whole different ballgame. That's what Adrafinil does.
>
> I kind of think of it in this symbolic example. Say for example we want a copper wire to transmit electricity better. What if we could make the density of that wire thicker? That would probably work. But with you and me it actually caused us to get much worse. But what if there was some molecule we could attach to the copper molecules that would make the electricity flow better than with pure copper? That's what Adrafinil does in our brain. It just makes the norepinephrine system work better than it does on its own. The Adrafinil molecules attach to certain brain molecules and then everything works better, especially if those certain brain molecules are somehow subactive to begin with.
>
> That's just my layman interpretation. If you decide to try it, I'm cheering for you! JohnL
- Scott
Posted by megs on April 14, 2000, at 20:32:30
In reply to Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
> Hi all,
>
> Why is it that France invents some of the world's best yet most unknown medications? I don't know what's in French drinking water, but whatever it is it sure seems to give them an edge when it comes to inventing fantastic medications.
>
> Adrafinil and Amisulpride have nearly completely conquered my longstanding resistant depression. I've been amazed, yet have been reluctant to share the good news because I wanted to be sure it wasn't another short-lived tease. I think this time it's for real. Adrafinil and Amisulpride are wonderful medications.
>
> I've taken Amisulpride before with Prozac, and it was helpful in social situations, but didn't address my anhedonia. So I'm pretty sure it's the Adrafinil that is doing the work. I could probably drop the Amisulpride to see, but my hunch is the Adrafinil is the wonderdrug in my small cocktail.
>
> I'm actually showing interest in doing things, anticipating the 'fun' of planning different activities. For the last three years I've watched my yard go to weeds. The beach is just a 10 minute walk away, yet I have had no interest to go there--and haven't gone there--in three years. Now I'm eagerly planning on where to put fruit trees, cleaning up the weeds, planning all kinds of flower and vegie gardens. Walking down to the beach and laying in the sun sounds like fun. And I'm even pondering picking up my guitar again and blowing off the dust. Amazing! I think over the years of depression my subdued interests have changed, but it is sssooo good to actually have interest in something again.
>
> Adrafinil comes on slowly, over about two weeks. After some very lousy sleep during the first week I now sleep very good and wake wanting to do things. I have NNOO side effects. Actually, the only side effect is if I stand up too quickly I get dizzy for a second. That's it.
>
> Current cocktail is: Adrafinil 600mg, Amisulpride 100mg, Remeron 7.5mg, St Johnswort 900mg. But I truly think the powerhorse is the Adrafinil. The others provide benefits, but the Adrafinil is the star of the show. I was amazed at how well and how quickly Adrafinil and St Johnswort complimented each other. What a fantastic combination. Unbelievable. With such a simple and highly pleasing combination, I cringe in disgust at all the other drugs I've tried...every SSRI, several TCAs, one MAOI, every augmentation imaginable, mood stabilizers, Naltrexone, on and on.
>
> What a long waste of time, and a long torturous nightmare it has been, to finally get where I am. And to think that of all the drugs our FDA approves, the best ones aren't even on their list. Thank God for French scientists and overseas mailorders. The best drugs the USA has to offer pale in comparison to other drugs around the world.
>
> So I'm here to announce, finally, that Adrafinil is the first and only medication among dozens that has treated my longstanding stubborn anhedonia. I'm not 100%, but closer than I've ever been. And it's still early. So to Adrafinil I say....SALUTE!!! :) JohnL
>
JohnL, although I am fairly new to this board I have read over many of the previous postings and have always found you information to be very interesting. I am so pleased that you have had success. I can understand your determination to find the right med for yourself, that in its self shows how much you value yourself(kind of hokey, but I feel true). Although paxi has worked wonders for me( I had severe post partum) I would love to find an AD that did not have the side-effects ie: weight. I am on a never ending search for an AD that will give me both contentment and no weight gain. If I ever find it I will let others know. Again I am truly very happy for you and I am always pleased to read any of your information.
Posted by Janice on April 15, 2000, at 15:40:56
In reply to Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 3:57:09
thanks for sharing your story with us and for sharing your information on the medication. I wish continued success. Janice
Posted by Peter on April 15, 2000, at 16:53:20
In reply to Re: Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by megs on April 14, 2000, at 20:32:30
Hi John L.
Congratulations! I sincerely hope that the Adafranil will continue working for you. I tried Amisulpride but did not find it particularly effective. I really admire your tenacity and willingness to share your success with us. Peter
Posted by shar on July 15, 2000, at 19:19:25
In reply to Re: Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 14, 2000, at 10:16:39
I was doing a search on Adrafinil and I came across this site that contained a paper on changing our DNA so we get rid of the bad genes that cause mental/emotional pain, and replace them with good genes so we feel blissful.
Really. Called "Good Drug Guide" or something similar. But the bottom line is genetic engineering to get rid of selfish DNA/genes.
Anyway, thought you all might be interested in it if you haven't yet seen it.
Url is www.bltc.com (that is bravo-llama-tea-cat).
Shar
Posted by iris2 on August 2, 2004, at 13:25:40
In reply to Re: Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulpride., posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 14, 2000, at 10:16:39
HI everyone.
My doctor although more than willing to write the script for amisulpride, mirapex,milnacipran and requip is "eccentric" to say the least. I cannot get him to send them. He forgets every time I call and I read them to him again . He says they will be in the mail the next day. I wait a week or two call again and he has almost no memory of the entire phone call. I gave up.
So I need to order without a script. I am going to try amisulpride first.
I wouod appreciate the help.
Thanks,
iris2
Posted by pablo1 on August 31, 2004, at 23:34:29
In reply to Amisulpride,MIrapex, Ixel,Requip where? Need help!, posted by iris2 on August 2, 2004, at 13:25:40
Iris, I was unable to contact you by email/babblemail from the link at your name in the posts.
Posted by michael on September 2, 2004, at 16:41:32
In reply to Re: Wonderful French meds...Adrafinil + Amisulprid, posted by pablo1 on August 31, 2004, at 23:34:29
> Iris, I was unable to contact you by email/babblemail from the link at your name in the posts.
pablo1 -
Could you drop me a line at mplsmtl@uscorp.net...? It's regarding similar adrafinil & amisulpride issues.
Thanks for any feedback / assistance that you can offer.
michael
This is the end of the thread.
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