Psycho-Babble Medication Thread 339744

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Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!! BarbaraCat

Posted by Racer on July 15, 2004, at 12:27:46

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!!, posted by BarbaraCat on July 15, 2004, at 9:41:36

Hey, BararaCat - chemist asked me to post his email to you, since he can't respond here. Taken from a thread below:
todd at lanczos dot cm dot utexas dot edu
(I'm guessing the "dot cm" is actually "dot com")

He is missed. He really is an asset to our community here. Still, it's only a week...

 

Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!! Racer

Posted by cpallen79 on July 15, 2004, at 12:30:58

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!! BarbaraCat, posted by Racer on July 15, 2004, at 12:27:46

I miss Chemist too, he really is an asset to us, tell him I say hi!

 

Re: BarbarCat, sorry -- it is cm (nm)

Posted by Racer on July 15, 2004, at 14:58:51

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!! BarbaraCat, posted by Racer on July 15, 2004, at 12:27:46

 

Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!!

Posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 16:32:39

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!!, posted by BarbaraCat on July 15, 2004, at 9:41:36

> Texas! That's a kick! Can't you just imagine Chemist with a Texan Twang? That is too precious. I thought he was Aussie. Hey Chemist, you're missed! - BCat
>


I can't imagine him with a Texan twang at all either. Maybe he just moved there from somewhere else (like Britain or Australia) for work purposes. I need to keep reading his posts with a British accent so I think I 'll stick with that theory!

Yes, you are missed Chemist!!!

-K

> >> I never figured that he lived in Texas. Somehow I had the idea that he was British. (He'll probably get a good laugh out of that one.)
> >
> > Take care,
> > Kara
>
>

 

Re: BarbarCat, i got Chem-ed!!!

Posted by Sad Panda on July 15, 2004, at 17:44:29

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Panda-ed!!!, posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 16:32:39

Chemist is sorely missed, he always seems to have the facts. :(

If it helps, imagine that Chemist sounds like George W. :D

Cheers,
Panda.

 

Re: BarbarCat, i got Chem-ed!!!

Posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 19:05:37

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Chem-ed!!!, posted by Sad Panda on July 15, 2004, at 17:44:29

> Chemist is sorely missed, he always seems to have the facts. :(
>
> If it helps, imagine that Chemist sounds like George W. :D
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.
>

He's the last person in the world I'd like to think that Chemist sounds like!!!

- Kara

 

Re: let's stay focused on medication here, thanks (nm)

Posted by Dr. Bob on July 15, 2004, at 19:27:38

In reply to Re: BarbarCat, i got Chem-ed!!!, posted by KaraS on July 15, 2004, at 19:05:37

 

Re: Sounds like a question for CHEMIST! BarbaraCat

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 18, 2004, at 11:23:45

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for CHEMIST! chemist, posted by BarbaraCat on July 13, 2004, at 14:41:36

> I am going to be delving into methylation land for the next bit. There is a common thread that's appearing to all this, first with the histamine hypothesis and the tie with with possible methyl doner malfunctioning.

Easy enough to supplement to target methyl donation.....betaine and B-12.

> The reason it jangled my bells is that I had a serious reaction to Lamictal all the while I was taking it and eventually stopped. Stevens Johnson developed from taking DMPS, a heavy metal chelator with a high affinitiy to thiol groups (in my case trying to chelate mercury) so there could be a possible tie in with the histimine/methylation relation, if there is one, and a possible breakdown of sulfur/thiol metabolism.

DMPS has a substantial impact on all metal cations. If I recall correctly, it is about 30 times more effective at removing zinc than mercury. Serious business, using chelation therapy. All too often, it is poorly managed, from a medical perspective. If mercury is a potential toxicant, take selenium. It will covalently bond to the mercury, totally inactivating it. The solubility constant for Se-Hg is on the order of ten to the -70. In other words, you would require roughly 10 to 46th power litres of water to dissolve one molecule. In other other words, it is so insoluble that its solubility can't be measured. The mercury will stay in your body, but it will be totally inert.

Thiol/sulphur metabolism is absolutely disturbed in fibromyalgia. That's why I've been pushing taurine. It's the sulphonic acid version of GABA.

> The other clue is that I have fibromyalgia and some recent studies have identified a epithelial mast cell inflammatory involvment which may account for the heightened skin nerve pain response. But also, ta-da, a malfunctioning histamine response at skin receptor sites seems to be involved, which would predispose one towards an inflamed skin pain sensitivity but also a heightened alergic response resulting in the erythema multiforme 'rash' (which is a severe separation of mast cells from the epithelial substrate). Mast cells -> histimine. There it is again.

Niacinamide down-regulates histamine synthesis, and also blocks mast-cell degranulation (histamine release). It also, coincidentally, is an agonist at GABA receptors.

FASEB J. 2003 Aug;17(11):1377-9.

Nicotinamide: a potential addition to the anti-psoriatic weaponry.

Namazi MR.

Dermatology Department, Shiraz University of Medical Sciences, Shiraz, Iran. namazi_mr@yahoo.com

Psoriasis is an inflammatory disorder characterized by a T helper type 1 cell cytokine pattern. Increased expression of adhesion molecules, prominent neutrophil accumulation, and increased production of nitric oxide are characteristics of this disorder. Moreover, histamine and proteases are supposed to participate in the pathogenesis of psoriasis. Nicotinamide is an inhibitor of poly (ADP-ribose) polymerase-1 (PARP-1) that, through enhancement of nuclear kappa B-mediated transcription, plays a pivotal role in the expression of inflammatory cytokines, chemokines, adhesion molecules, and inflammatory mediators. Through interaction with CD38 and inhibition of IL-1, IL-12, and TNF-alpha production, nicotinamide produces a mild TH2 bias. Nicotinamide is a potent phosphodiesterase inhibitor and suppresses neutrophil chemotaxis and mast cell histamine release. It inhibits nitric oxide synthase mRNA induction and suppresses antigen-induced lymphocyte transformation. Nicotinamide increases the biosynthesis of ceramides, which upon degradation produce sphingosine. Sphingosine inhibits protein kinase C (PKC) and decreases basal cell proliferation dependent on PKC. Taken together, it can be reasoned that nicotinamide could be a useful addition to anti-psoriatic armamentarium. The combination of nicotinamide and thalidomide or methotrexate provided a powerful synergistic inhibition of murine collagen-induced arthritis. Nicotinamide decreased the methotrexate-induced hepatotoxicity. The above combinations may prove to have a powerful anti-psoriatic effect as well. As PARP inhibitors could exert anti-retroviral effect, nicotinamide could also be of special value in the treatment of HIV-infected psoriatics.

I expect this topic to be redirected, but I hope that a greater audience is exposed to some of these concepts, here on the main Babble board. Alternative medicine is drug-augmentative. There's a lot more you can do than get prescriptions filled.

Lar

 

Re: Sounds like a question for CHEMIST! Larry Hoover

Posted by BarbaraCat on July 18, 2004, at 17:19:22

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for CHEMIST! BarbaraCat, posted by Larry Hoover on July 18, 2004, at 11:23:45

Ah, Larry, you are amazing. You've been away and you have been missed! I wish I could make an appoinment with you. You've given me more info tha 20 doctors I've been to in the last 2 years. I'm a little wary of going the methyl doner path since I seem to fit the histademia model, which spells high-methylation. I feel like I'm in a vice with my vitamin bottles. Oh, and I have high iron levels as well and Vitamin C recirculates iron, so can't take C. Taurine is about the only thing I trust. Something's going on with my metals metabolism. Maybe it has to do with low zinc, B6. But if not, if I over produce B6 I could get into trouble. Perhaps my toxic load of mercury is at the heart of everything.

I'll be going to a functional MD this week for some major testing in this area. But I'd be surprised if he mentions using selenium for mercury inactivation since his lab is filled with people hooked up to chelation IV lines. I've learned my lesson in that area - no chelation for me. It gets so disheartening when it starts dawning that every one of these 'healers' we desperatly seek out are in it to extract our money.

I am so discouraged, depressed, and angry. I go about life just fine, start making plans, taking classes, getting a life back again. And bam! I'll wake up totally in pain, fatigue, can't sleep, stiff, depressed, befuddled. I can't figure this thing out and feel like I'm spinning my wheels and spending money I don't have on my meagre disability earnings.

I don't care if this gets redirected to whatever category it rightly fits into. If this were you, Larry, what would you do? What supplements would you take, what doors would you pound on, who knows anything? Thanks you bearing with me during this outpouring. It helps. - Barbara

 

Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! BarbaraCat

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2004, at 10:51:31

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for CHEMIST! Larry Hoover, posted by BarbaraCat on July 18, 2004, at 17:19:22

> Ah, Larry, you are amazing. You've been away and you have been missed! I wish I could make an appoinment with you. You've given me more info tha 20 doctors I've been to in the last 2 years.

Oh, my. I don't know what to say. thanks

> I'm a little wary of going the methyl doner path since I seem to fit the histademia model, which spells high-methylation.

You're using Pfeiffer's categories, I take it. Two things about the thinking processes involved. Invoking a model makes comprehension simpler because a model invariably leaves out information. The danger lies in treating the model as if it is a real entity (that's called reification). The second thing is that the lines between any such categorization system are arbitrary. Mother Nature herself does not draw such lines. Few people would fit nicely into those abstract pigeon-holes. Most will straddle the lines, no matter where they are placed.

> I feel like I'm in a vice with my vitamin bottles. Oh, and I have high iron levels as well and Vitamin C recirculates iron, so can't take C.

Your serum ferritin is high? You have hemochromatosis? The answer is blood-letting, not vitamin C avoidance.

> Taurine is about the only thing I trust.

I trust taurine, too. Moooooooo.

> Something's going on with my metals metabolism. Maybe it has to do with low zinc, B6.

The metals are a toughy. Different tissues have vastly different concentrations, and also ratios of concentrations. You mentioned chelation....if you had that, without receiving IV mineral reconstitution, it's little wonder your metals are messed up.

> But if not, if I over produce B6 I could get into trouble.

I wouldn't worry in the least about too much B6. Really. It would fix your sulphur problem. And you don't produce B6. We take it in its provitamin form, in supplement pills. It's not active as pyridoxine. Your liver has to phosphorylate it, to P-5-P. Then it becomes more reactive, and it can participate as a cofactor in enzymatic reactions.

> Perhaps my toxic load of mercury is at the heart of everything.

Mercury is probably the worst commonly found toxicant in existence. Its net effect is to substantially increase oxidative stress. Oxidative stress is a general, non-specific effect, which targets anything vulnerable to oxidation. Guess what those things might be. High on the list are polyunsaturated fatty acids. Even higher on the list are thiols. At about the same level is DNA, but the latter has better protection than e.g. cell membranes or thiol-containing proteins.

> I'll be going to a functional MD this week for some major testing in this area. But I'd be surprised if he mentions using selenium for mercury inactivation since his lab is filled with people hooked up to chelation IV lines. I've learned my lesson in that area - no chelation for me. It gets so disheartening when it starts dawning that every one of these 'healers' we desperatly seek out are in it to extract our money.

It seems so, doesn't it?

> I am so discouraged, depressed, and angry. I go about life just fine, start making plans, taking classes, getting a life back again. And bam! I'll wake up totally in pain, fatigue, can't sleep, stiff, depressed, befuddled. I can't figure this thing out and feel like I'm spinning my wheels and spending money I don't have on my meagre disability earnings.

I can't even afford some of my own ideas. Ya, I understand that issue. I know of exactly what you describe.

> I don't care if this gets redirected to whatever category it rightly fits into. If this were you, Larry, what would you do?

One thing I would do, is to take a deep breath. Then another one, and so on, until the feeling passes.

> What supplements would you take, what doors would you pound on, who knows anything? Thanks you bearing with me during this outpouring. It helps. - Barbara

Have you ever read the articles by Dr. Pall? His links aren't working at this moment, for some reason, but... http://molecular.biosciences.wsu.edu/Faculty/pall.html

He's developed a unified theory that relates chronic oxidative stress to the symptoms of fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue and PTSD, along with biochemical markers for these. He also corresponded with me a couple years back, and gave me some dietary recommendations. Unfortunately, those emails are on a malfunctioning computer, and I haven't been able to get the bugs out to access the data, yet.

I hope you gain some assurance from the fact that you do not walk this path alone.

Lar

 

Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! Larry Hoover

Posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 11:28:23

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! BarbaraCat, posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2004, at 10:51:31

Thanks, Larry. Feeling a lot better today. Those fibro flares are the pits, although I was able to sustain more hope during it than with others. Yes, I was referring to Pfeiffer's classifications, which I don't take as Gospel. A bit too pigeon-holey, plus I haven't heard much in the way of success with depression or bipolar disorders from their clinic.

The link didn't work, as you said. Anything you can dig up in the future would be appreciated. I know how it goes with a clobbered computer. My laptop was invaded by a scum-ware worm over the winter and it took 3 weeks of non-stop little-sleep damage control. Felt like invasion of the body snatchers. A good lesson in keeping virus definitions up to date.

In the meantime, I'll do a search with his name and other combinations of 'oxidative stress'+fibromyalgia. I'll let you know how the Functional MD visit and tests go if you'd like. Take care. - Barbara

 

Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! BarbaraCat

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2004, at 11:41:10

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! Larry Hoover, posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 11:28:23


> In the meantime, I'll do a search with his name and other combinations of 'oxidative stress'+fibromyalgia.

Pall's work centers on peroxynitrite. That will focus the search, using that keyword.

> I'll let you know how the Functional MD visit and tests go if you'd like.

Please.

> Take care. - Barbara

And you,
Lar

 

Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! Larry Hoover

Posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 12:26:16

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! BarbaraCat, posted by Larry Hoover on July 19, 2004, at 11:41:10

My search pulled up quite a few very relevant hits. Very very interesting. Good fuel for my upcoming visit. Thanks again, Lar. - Barbara

 

Glad you are back larry =) (nm)

Posted by tepiaca on July 20, 2004, at 2:11:49

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for CHEMIST! BarbaraCat, posted by Larry Hoover on July 18, 2004, at 11:23:45

 

Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! BarbaraCat

Posted by Larry Hoover on July 20, 2004, at 9:49:32

In reply to Re: Sounds like a question for Lar! Larry Hoover, posted by BarbaraCat on July 19, 2004, at 12:26:16

> My search pulled up quite a few very relevant hits. Very very interesting. Good fuel for my upcoming visit. Thanks again, Lar. - Barbara

You're welcome. And let us know how your intuition is guided by these new thoughts. You have much to contribute, as well.

Lar

 

GREAT TO SEE LARRY'S BACK!!! (nm)

Posted by leo33 on July 23, 2004, at 14:08:19

In reply to Glad you are back larry =) (nm), posted by tepiaca on July 20, 2004, at 2:11:49

 

Re: Seroquel users: BarbaraCat

Posted by noelle on August 12, 2004, at 19:41:16

In reply to Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions (HELP) cpallen79, posted by BarbaraCat on July 11, 2004, at 2:48:41

> Have you considered you might be BP-II? Your recurring agitated depression might warrant further investigation. Agitated dysphoric depression has been the bane of my life but I always thought I had unipolar depression and never considered it might be part of the bipolar spectrum. I'd always considered bipolar 'mania' as the classic grandiose mapcap stuff, not the panicked agitated mixed states hell I experienced or the irritibility and pissed-offness. I'd been on SSRI's for many many years and they worked fairly well, but then the agitated depression broke through big time. Kept increasing the SSRI, got twitchy akathisia from too much, got no relief from the agitated depression, fell apart, and ended up hospitalized. Through this board and other research and self-reflection it became clear that my symptoms were pretty classic BP-II. I've learned the hard way time and time again that if I don't take lithium, no matter what else I take I'll eventually descend into a bleak agitated hell.
>
> The thing with bipolar is that during the manic phase my thoughts can get very disorganized and my behavior looks very much like ADD. In fact, there are definite overlaps between the two disorders. My self medicating drug of choice during my younger years was speed. But throughout the years, stress took a heavy toll and pstims now send me over the edge. I may have been ADD and unipolar depressed at first, but I can't help thinking that high dose SSRI's exacerbated a latent bipolar disorder.
>
> Lithium has worked wonders for me, although it's not the best choice for everyone. A mood stabilizer is critical for anyone bipolar if they take an antidepressant. Otherwise, SSRI's can easily kindle an agitated depression. This might be old news to you but just thought I'd share this in case not. When I hear severe agitated depression, I immediately think 'dysphoric hypomania' and bipolar mixed states. Very uncomfortable stuff - oh I know it well and am soooooo grateful that lithium works for me. BTW, trazodone was a great med for me while it worked. Put me to sleep, helped my depression, a great antianxiety med. Hell to wake up on but after a few jumping jacks and a shower I was ready to go. The problem was that after a while it too stopped working, probably because I needed lithium. And it does slow you down during the day, but if you've got agitated depression, that's not a bad thing. One thing you might try is taking L-taurine which acts as a natural mood stabilizer and might even take the place of a prescription med. - BarbaraCat
>
>
> > Hey Chemist, thanks for the follow up. You want to know something wierd? The adderall actually calms me down! It's when it wears off that I'm not as well. I guess it tends to have a paradoxical effect on us ADD'ers. The lexapro lifted me out of the depths of severe anxiety/agitation. To make a long story short, I had a nervous breakdown in February due to severe stress (my guard was also most likely down due to a painful effexor w/d that I went through about a month prior to the breakdown) and i went into a nasty agitated depression with what can only be described as akathisia symptoms. That's why I'm so frustrated by the seroquel setback, I never want to go back to that place again, and that akathisia felt alot like the agitated depression I've been battling to overcome. I'm hoping Trazodone will do the trick for a good night's sleep. My PDOC wants me to avoid Benzos because we have some nasty addiction issues in our family and I think everyone's weary enough of me taking a stimulatnt for A.D.D. Guess I'm not sure what to do...
>
Wow,
I was reading your post and its the first time I found someone describing exactly what I have been going through for years. I been on every antidepressent but their effects work one day and then I have that agitated depression( and stim ) I always think its some that sends me on this 3 days good one day bad cycle. (i.e. I drank the night before, or I had too much caffiene) but I'm thinking I may need a mood stabilzer. The trick is getting my shrink the believe this might be the case. I am not however going on lithium, (scared of weight gain). I was considering lamictal. Any advise.

 

Seroquel and weight gain / hunger--DESPERATE!

Posted by BBoo on August 16, 2004, at 11:09:30

In reply to Re: Seroquel users: BarbaraCat, posted by noelle on August 12, 2004, at 19:41:16

Hi, hope I'm doing this right. I'm so glad I found this site. I've been on Seroquel for about 2 years, at least, but I only take 25 mg at night. I also take Wellbutrin, Topamax, and Lexapro. Over the last 6 mos. or so I have noticed that I am always hungry--physically, literally--hungry. About 3 hours after I eat a good meal, I start feeling shaky, light-headed, etc. and my stomach feels like it's going to growl. I get headaches a lot. I've gained about 10 pounds. This is NOT good because I am also a recovered/recovering bulimic. Two weeks ago I had blood work done and everything was within the normal range. But everything I'm reading here sounds just like me. My doctor says the Seroquel COULD be causing the hunger but that I'm on such a low dose it's unlikely. My therapist wants to think it's "emotional" hunger but it feels very real. Does anyone have any suggestions or advice? Thanks for any help!

 

Re: Seroquel users: Weight Gain and Sleep

Posted by PoohBear on August 16, 2004, at 14:24:19

In reply to Seroquel users: a couple of questions, posted by Nohope on April 25, 2004, at 0:50:43

I wanted to add my experience and two cents, for what they're worth...

I have been on Seroquel for sleep (100mg each night) after experiencing horrific weight gain on Remeron. It's been great for sleep, but after reading this thread I now think I realize why I have been ravenously hungry and have not dropped the weight from the Remeron, but have GAINED.

I made "GOAL" with Weight Watchers on 12/28/03. I gained 12 pounds in two weeks in 01/04. My pDoc was alarmed and we dropped the Remeron in favor of Seroquel (100mg per night) for sleep, with the added benefit that it "might" help with mood swings, since I am also atypical BP as well as ADHD and chronically depressed. I did not know that the Seroquel could be causing increased weight, since my pDoc billed it as "weight-neutral".

Obviously, to echo information in some of the links above, this has not been that great emotionally, though the Effexor seems to add to the "don't care" attitude.

I am currently up 23 POUNDS above my original ghoal, and in fact had to modify my goal to 220 from 200, which always gives me the nagging feeling that I'm "cheating". I have a dear friend that I used to mentally berate for using Paxil as an excuse for weight gain: I now know better.

Okay, so that's three cents, but there ya go...

Tony

 

Re: Seroquel users: a couple of questions

Posted by nicolas on August 18, 2004, at 19:25:46

In reply to Seroquel users: a couple of questions, posted by Nohope on April 25, 2004, at 0:50:43

In my experience with Seroquel the sedation does wane after a few weeks but never goes away entirely. Mornings were very difficult for me while I was on Seroquel.

 

Re: Seroquel users: Weight Gain and Sleep

Posted by southernskies on August 20, 2004, at 17:04:59

In reply to Re: Seroquel users: Weight Gain and Sleep (nm), posted by southernskies on August 20, 2004, at 16:57:58

I've been on Seroquel for about 5 months now. Have gained over 50 pounds, most of which were gained during my first 6 weeks on the drug. My dosage was just lowered to only 300mg PM dose, along with 10mg AM Lexapro & 20mg PM Lexapro and 800mg total daily of Tegretol. My pdoc doesn't consider how detrimental such weight gain is to me (age 40 w/ heart disease & diabetes rampant in my families). I partcipate in indigent care, so there are limitations in my care. He did agree to ADD Geodon to my cocktail, but not replace or reduce the Seroquel. Would doing so help me lose weight? I've read y'all's posts about taking a low dose for insomnia. Perhaps I could go that route? Anxiously awaiting your informed responses...

Southernskies

 

Chemist--i need your help--you still here?

Posted by fluffy on September 10, 2004, at 17:42:42

In reply to Re: Seroquel users: Weight Gain and Sleep, posted by southernskies on August 20, 2004, at 17:04:59

Hi Chemist--

I've enjoyed reading your knowledgeable and insightful posts. Here's the deal: I've been on everything for my rapid cycling bipolar II-- lamictal, trileptal, lithium, zyprexa...couldn't tolerate them due to unacceptable side effects.

Now I'm taking 750mg of Depakote, which has slowed the cycling, but still leaves me with an "agitating" high--I feel like I'm itching inside, I'm all speedy. And I dip down into a low that I could only describe like the negative symptoms of schizophrenia--withdrawn, blunted, numb, anhedonia. My doc and I added .25mg of Risperdal which helps the agitation and has allowed me to sleep again. Also I've regained my appetite (I gained 10 lbs).

However, I still feel so flattened out with no emotions. I recently tried to switch to Abilify, but it agitated me to an extreme--bad anxiety, insomnia. I want to know if Seroquel might be less flattening and help the more negative symptoms of my cycling. I feel like I have no personality. It's ruining my art, my social life. I just want to sit and stare into space. Alchohol seems to lessen the antisocial feelings. And I don't want to get into that trap.

What are your thoughts on Seroquel and "negative symptoms"?

Thanks,
Katy

 

Re: Chemist--i need your help--you still here? fluffy

Posted by KaraS on September 12, 2004, at 18:18:50

In reply to Chemist--i need your help--you still here?, posted by fluffy on September 10, 2004, at 17:42:42

FYI, chemist has been blocked. I think he has a week or so left on his sentence. (Just didn't want you to think that he was ignoring you.)

 

Re: Chemist--i need your help--you still here? fluffy

Posted by BarbaraCat on September 12, 2004, at 20:47:04

In reply to Chemist--i need your help--you still here?, posted by fluffy on September 10, 2004, at 17:42:42

Hi Katy,
Jumping in here after being away for a few months. So sorry to hear you're having these hard times. I can't help but think that you're on a very high dose of Depakote and it doesn't seem to be working as well as such a high dose would warrant. It concerns me because Depakote, like Lamictal, has been known to cause 'The Rash'. You just don't hear it mentioned as often. That inner itching is something I experienced from Lamictal and eventually ended up with full blown Stevens Johnson from another drug entirely, but I think that itching was a sign that an inflammatory condition was activated.

Which doesn't answer your original question but maybe I could add my own experience with Seroquel. I personally did not do well at all with Seroquel and felt like I'd been bonked on the head and wrapped in fuzz. I understand that goes away but it also left me feeling very depressed. But that's just my chemistry. I know that Katia fared pretty well on it.

If you're already taking Rispirdal I don't imagine that Seroquel is going to be all that much of an improvement. It doesn't seem like antipsychotics are the answer, but more like dealing with symptoms caused by something else. Just a hit, but maybe Depakote is not the appropriate med for you, at least at such high doses. Again, I'm concerned about the itching which tells me that your immune system is activated and fighting inflammation.

I wish I could be more helpful. I'm currently doing very well on St. John's Wort and low dose lithium. When things get wired I take oxazepam (similar to Ativan) for anxiety. Anything that pulls me together long enough to get some exercise and daily meditation, which help more than anything but can't do when I'm frazzled. I'm surprised at how well the St. John's Wort is working (I'm taking HBO Protocols which seems to be the most effective brand for me). But it's bad news without the 600mg lithium.

I have to share my observation that life seemed better for you when we talked a while back. Time for med tweaking. I sure hope your pdoc can pull a rabbit out somewhere. Hugs, Barbara


> Hi Chemist--
>
> I've enjoyed reading your knowledgeable and insightful posts. Here's the deal: I've been on everything for my rapid cycling bipolar II-- lamictal, trileptal, lithium, zyprexa...couldn't tolerate them due to unacceptable side effects.
>
> Now I'm taking 750mg of Depakote, which has slowed the cycling, but still leaves me with an "agitating" high--I feel like I'm itching inside, I'm all speedy. And I dip down into a low that I could only describe like the negative symptoms of schizophrenia--withdrawn, blunted, numb, anhedonia. My doc and I added .25mg of Risperdal which helps the agitation and has allowed me to sleep again. Also I've regained my appetite (I gained 10 lbs).
>
> However, I still feel so flattened out with no emotions. I recently tried to switch to Abilify, but it agitated me to an extreme--bad anxiety, insomnia. I want to know if Seroquel might be less flattening and help the more negative symptoms of my cycling. I feel like I have no personality. It's ruining my art, my social life. I just want to sit and stare into space. Alchohol seems to lessen the antisocial feelings. And I don't want to get into that trap.
>
> What are your thoughts on Seroquel and "negative symptoms"?
>
> Thanks,
> Katy

 

Re: Chemist--i need your help--you still here?

Posted by fluffy on September 15, 2004, at 10:43:56

In reply to Re: Chemist--i need your help--you still here? fluffy, posted by BarbaraCat on September 12, 2004, at 20:47:04

Hi Barb-cat!

Glad to hear you are at an equilibrium with your moods. I'm so glad you jumped in.

Yeah--I'm having a hard time right now. Feeling pretty fragile. I'm so tired of these Fall depressions that i could just puke. It takes all of my mental energy to just eat and try to keep the negative thoughts from overwhelming me.

hmm. The inner itch. It felt like an inner agitation. And when my doctor put me on Risperdal, it magically wiped it away. (which I was thankful for). And the inner agitation was accompanied by an increased libido and racing thoughts. So I associated it with the "up" of my cycle. Unfortunately, the Risperdal has done little for the downs. And like I posted before, I feel wiped of my personality. so I'm not sure if it's the depakote to blame or for me, the more obvious culprit, the risperdal.

If I ditch the depakote, though, I'm not sure what's next for me. I seem to be at the end of the rope in terms of conventional treatments. I've always had a haunting feeling that my thyroid is somewhat to blame. (my mom has thyroid disease). I've thought about running the notion of being on T4 or T4/T3 combo by my doctor as a main mood stabilizer to see what would happen. All I know is that no matter what we've tried, nothing seems to dent the rapid cycling pattern I've been in for 2 years now.

I'm exhausted. The idea of going through med changes and another Fall...well...I just don't feel right now like I can take it.

I've started to date a wonderful man. And I feel like such a freak. I don't know how to tell him that this is what I go through. he knows that i'm bipolar.. But right now, my heart just isn't in anything, let alone a new relationship. I just don't know what to do. I feel like I'm at my wit's end with all this. And i don't know if or when I'll feel recovered from this nasty illness. I hate it.

Sorry to be so negative. I can't help it. It helps to write some of my angry thoughts down.

Thanks Barb-cat,
Katy


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